Moral values vs. Promiscuity

[Trialbyfire]

I'm of the school of thought that people only change fundamental morals through personal trauma, unless it's a relaxing of fundamental morals for personal gain.

 

Not all but many people use promiscuity for the purposes of external validation v. a purely physical release.

 

"He/she wants me so I must be hawt/interesting/great/the best...whatever."

 

If people need to be sexually validated often for internal needs, it can manifest itself through infidelity/cheating, during times of stress in a marriage/relationship whether their internal needs are reasonable or unreasonable. A form of coping mechanism.

 

TBF, I think what some of the folks on this thread take umberage with is the assumptions you make, and I can't say I blame them. You say that people who have had many past sexual partners will cheat. That's insulting to anyone who has chosen to enjoy casual sex when they're not in a committed relationship. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. One involves behavior when NOT in a relationship which has nothing to do with integrity, and the other involves integrity - how they behave after they've made a promise of monogomy to someone.

luvs, I've requoted myself for the purposes of this thread. If you note, this doesn't encompass everyone. I've separated the purely physical release from the requirement for external sexual validation. Also, the external sexual validation comments aren't all encompassing.

[Crow9726]

I have read this thread with great interest since it has something to do with my relationship recently ending.

 

I have always been very open and forthcoming about my sexual past. Do I have skeletons or things that may be deemed socially unacceptable in my past? Absolutely!

 

However, the man I am today...and any ladies I may be with in the future..are a result of our sexual pasts. I had posted on a separate thread that the number of sexual partners isn't near as important as the reasons behind them.

 

I am fairly well read and have a very open mind. I am not ashamed of what I have done...and cannot understand how some people can be. I am not judgmental, but I do have a problem with someone not being honest and open.

 

Now this is only my opinion, but it seems to me that those who advocate being secretive or non-communicative about their past sexual adventures are ashamed or feel they have something to hide. If a relationship is to be built on trust and communication, then this non-disclosure (also referred to as straight out lying or lying by omission) is a deal breaker for me.

 

My recent relationship ended because all of her sexual issues and her sordid past were hidden from me. Any attempts to talk about it...mainly for me to understand the negative effects they had on her...were avoided like the plague. Instead of helping me understand her and her issues...her responses caused me to develop my own issues. It had nothing to do with retroactive jealousy. It had to do with intimacy issues, emotional barriers and an almost total lack of communication on the subject. Hence, I started to blame myself when I was never the one to blame. Our sex life was tainted by those who came before me. I was guilty just by being a man with sexual wants and needs. My need to know wasn't focused on the "who". It was focused on the "why"...since her experiences were having a negative impact on us.

 

I vote for full disclosure. That is my choice and my opinion...right or wrong. It is something I need to develop any relationship in the most emotional, intimate and committed ways possible.

 

Just my $ .02.

[CommitmentPhobe]

I vote for full disclosure. That is my choice and my opinion...right or wrong. It is something I need to develop any relationship in the most emotional, intimate and committed ways possible.

 

Do you understand how needy that actually makes you?

[Crow9726]

Do you understand how needy that actually makes you?

 

Not needy...just honest and upfront.

 

I don't play games. I don't lie. I am not an emotional cripple. I am who I am.

 

If you feel you have to hide your past from me...then I don't want or need you in my life.

[CommitmentPhobe]

Not needy...just honest and upfront.

 

I don't play games. I don't lie. I am not an emotional cripple. I am who I am.

 

If you feel you have to hide your past from me...then I don't want or need you in my life.

 

blo_ody hell

 

You're not getting this. People usually open up when they're ready to and when they feel safe. If you demand someone is open and upfront and gives you full disclosure then that's about control and nothing to do with intimacy.

[Jellyhead]

luvs, I've requoted myself for the purposes of this thread. If you note, this doesn't encompass everyone. I've separated the purely physical release from the requirement for external sexual validation. Also, the external sexual validation comments aren't all encompassing.

You're right, TBF, and I think what has derailed this thread is too much of a focus on absolutes. Some people are arguing that prior promiscuity has no bearing whatsoever on the now, while others say it is of 100% importance. In reality, the truth lies between those two viewpoints. Specifically, it all depends on the person with the past.

 

For example, a lot of people go through a crazy time in college or their 20s when they sleep around a bit. But as they get older, they mature, start to change their attitudes and begin seeking out more fulfilling relationships and generally rejecting the quick fix of easy sex. In such cases, the past really shouldn't matter.

 

On the other hand, I'm sure we all know folks who were horndogs in their 20s, never grew out of it and pretty much can't or won't control their hormones. Not good relationship material!

 

To use an analogy - some people shoplift a few times in their teens but never do it again, while others develop into career criminals. If you're in a relationship with a person who has a past, you have to ask yourself which of those two scenarios apply and act accordingly.

[wittygirl09]

That is an amazing analogy. Really makes me think. Both extreme sides of the spectrum are bad ways to go about it.

[Taramere]

Why do we always have to be so open minded to point of personality suicide

 

That's a good phrase.

 

Personally, although I'm not promiscuous there are many other aspects of me (mistakes I've made, and reckless things I've done) that would expose me to other people's judgementalism. And I think...okay. It's fair for them to judge me on that. It's fair to say "you really f*cked up" if I did. If they want me to grovel around the place in shame about it for the rest of my life, they're destined for disappointment - but it's fair for them to have their opinion about my behaviour. They're either my friend regardless, or they'll indicate that they don't want to know me because I've breached a value that's too important to them.

 

I suppose the thing I'm wondering about, with regard to judging other people's behaviour, is generally what the hoped for outcome (from judging) is. In the case of promiscuity is it to

 

a) discourage other people from promiscuity

 

b) let prospective partners know "this is where I stand on this issue. If you're promiscuous, back off;

 

c) make people who are promiscuous feel morally inferior, or make oneself feel morally superior

 

d) try to encourage people who are promiscuous to reflect on their sexual behaviour and consider whether it's really making them happy

 

e) express an opinion and make conversation/debate and analyse social attitudes about this

 

f) some other reason that hasn't occurred to me?

 

I don't have a big problem with people making judgements about things, provided they don't bang on about a particular issue repetitively to the point where it becomes boring and irritating to be around them. Say I have had 100 sexual partners and someone says "Taramere, I think you're a slut. Clearly sex is meaningless to you. You may as well be a rutting animal, and you don't deserve a nice man who will love you."

 

Well....there's still enough stigma attached to women having a lot of sexual partners that I should be well aware that if I choose to sleep with 100 people, sooner or later I'm going to run into judgement about it. I'm capable of predicting the consequences of my actions, so I have to be ready to deal with those consequences. Often the consequences will be social disapproval.

 

If I'm the kind of person who is extremely concerned by others' judgements and liable to be terribly hurt by negative judgements, then I have to either toe the line and live by their values as much as possible (even if I don't share them) or I must make the decision to live as I want to live....and make a concerted effort to toughen up against the judgements I incur. To care less....survive and be happy on a minimal amount of validation from the outside world. Develop a thicker skin to words like "slut" or "whore".

 

It could be that doing that builds as much character, in its own way, as sticking to a rigid set of society's popular moral rules does. Whether you're sticking to a set of moral rules rigidly - even when you're severely tempted to break them - or whether you're breaching social conventions that you disagree with/don't care about and accepting the socially unpleasant consequences of doing that...either of those things takes some courage.

 

I think you're absolutely right about the personality suicide thing. My God...does anybody want to live in a world where absolutely everybody was promiscuous. Or, conversely, where nobody was? It would be very dull.

[XNemesisX]

For me it has nothing to do with morals, I am not jealous of a man's past because of my "high morals" because my morals aren't that high, they are pretty damn loose.

 

I am NOT in a relationship right now but when I was it was all about the following.

 

It was all about being jealous of the women in the past, jealous that he was with THEM and not ME, jealous and bitter because the guy had more fun than me while I missed out (so it's mainly feeling sorry for myself. And then it's the constant.

 

It was the constant wondering of what the other biatches in his past looked like, what they looked like naked, if they were hotter than me, more successful than me, better in bed, I even wondered what they did in bed explicitly, like the positions and what the women sounded like, what moves they made.

 

And then there was fear of being compared to the other woman, fear of not being the BEST (I always have to be the best).

 

And then wondering if the other person had SO MANY sexual partners then how could I ever compare to those partners? Which one of the partners were better than me, which one was prettier? Which one was better in bed? And then I wanted to know their names... And what the other women looked like.

And I would always have visions of them together etc.

 

 

This pretty much sums up how I feel about it. I think I have low self-esteem and it is reflected in how much retroactive jealousy I have. It's not a moral issue it's a matter of being devestated by the notion that someone else is better than me in some way in my partner's eyes. I think I must like to mentally torment and hurt myself by obsessing over this. I can't help but visualize the person I'm with and the other women to the point it's like putting in a dvd and hitting rewind to replay the scene over and over again. Even though I know the thoughts hurt me I can't "think my way out of it." I imagine how must prettier and better they are than me. I imagine all the different ways they must have done it and how great it was. Even though I rarely even think about my past partners, I can't let go of the thought that my SO must constantly be thinking about how great his were and then I start feeling like I can never live up to it. Then I just feel like giving up. I can't seem to let it go no matter who I'm dating or how much they tell me otherwise. If I'm told I'm the best I'm not naive enough to believe they didn't tell those others that too. I figure that if someone has had a lot of sexual partners, there is no way I could be the best. And that HURTS.

 

I really think it boils down to self-esteem. If you have low self-esteem already, being with someone with many sex partners crushes it even more. I would just suggest to everyone out there to never disclose anything about your past sex life. It only makes things worse. It doesn't help anything or serve any purpose other than to destroy the other persons confidence. If this type of knowledge does not bother you, then I truly envy you and wish I could be like you.

[XNemesisX]

Sorry if I'm particularly heated about this subject right now.

 

I got into an argument with my boyfriend last night over a girl he hooked up with. Even though he was the one that told me how many times he was with her, where it happened, etc (while smiling from ear to ear) without me requesting that information, he told me last night "it was really none of my business" when I asked a question about her. I'm like "so all of the sudden it's none of my business?!" He didn't seem to think that when he was bragging about it early on in our relationship

[You'reasian]

I doubt anyone can debate that historical patterns reveal a lot about how a person functions. While people can change, more often than not, when it hits the fan during times of high stress, they tend to revert to foundational patterns of behaviour.

 

With this in mind, everyone has the right to know about a partner's sexual history. If one partner withholds this information, be it actively, lying or lying by omission, which partner is now being selfish, particularly in knowing that it could easily affect the relationship due to their partner's beliefs?

 

Every partner has the right to accept or reject anyone for any reason.

 

Excellent post and I agree.

[AAlike]

Originally Posted by Trialbyfire

I doubt anyone can debate that historical patterns reveal a lot about how a person functions. While people can change, more often than not, when it hits the fan during times of high stress, they tend to revert to foundational patterns of behaviour.

 

With this in mind, everyone has the right to know about a partner's sexual history. If one partner withholds this information, be it actively, lying or lying by omission, which partner is now being selfish, particularly in knowing that it could easily affect the relationship due to their partner's beliefs?

 

Every partner has the right to accept or reject anyone for any reason.

 

 

Excellent post and I agree.

 

If you NEED to know about someone's sexual past, as Trial, Stockalone and a few others have conveyed that they would, then I agree, you should certainly ask and they should certainly disclose.

 

HOWEVER, if you don't NEED to know, then I cannot imagine why you'd WANT to know.