In love with an old friend...How does she feel?

[lovestruckartist]

Hi, this is my first post so I hope it's done correctly. Here is the issue:

There is a young woman that I have known for five years. She is the daughter of a friend of mine. (I have older friends.) It was five years ago that she came to visit her mother from out of state that we were introduced and began to spend a lot of time together for those two weeks. She's only two years younger than myself. I'm 31. In those two weeks I started to have feelings toward her. I didn't see her again for another year and we spent a lot of time together during that next visit as well. Since she had a boyfriend who is much older than her in the other state, it could go no further than platonic friendship. I found out as well that the boyfriend who is 15 years older was abusive and very controlling. She was not happy in the relationship at all. Although I secretly wanted more, I knew my boundaries and didn't push it. The next year, I didn't see her at all. Her mom went to visit there instead. It was another two years before I'd get the chance to see her. It was almost two years ago that she came for a visit and we spent nearly every evening together during those three weeks. After the first week of the last visit, I knew I was in love with her. Uncontrollably, undeniably and forever in love with this woman. I ended up telling her how I felt and we grew even closer. It never went beyond friendship. However, we began to play what I call "lover's games". Now, unless I'm just naive, I don't think most platonic friends of the opposite sex play wrestle, cuddle, hold each other and lay there aimlessly gazing at each other while turning out compliments on how wonderful the other person is. And yes, it was a two way thing. Well, that visit ended with us being closer than ever but still friends. I didn't want to see her go this time but I knew she would and she did. It was a lot for me to deal with. We began talking on the phone a lot over the course of the next year. I cut off communication a year ago. I was so in love with her and it had been a year since I had seen her last. I figured she'd made her decision and I wasn't part of it. It also was killing me inside knowing I wanted her more than I wanted to breath and when we weren't talking he was the one in her life. So, to keep from hurting as much, I cut it off. I still talked to her mother as she is an old friend. She would often tell me her daughter would ask about me and wanted to hear from me. Still, I did nothing. I did stop all dating because I just couldn't shake her. Ok, that brings us to the present. She left the abusing boyfriend of nine years finally. She moved back to state about two weeks ago. I was the first and only person she called. She lives about 60 minutes from me so I didn't see her right away. She calls me every night and several times a day. We speak for hours at the time. I was scared to see her again. Afraid things would be different between us. I saw her two nights ago. It seemed as if time had stood still. She is still the most beautiful girl in the universe and I'm still in love with her. It got late and she ended up staying the night. There was no sex, no kissing of any thing like that. I didn't even try. I know she just got out of a long relationship and I just don't see that as appropriate for right now. I do still want her and I will give her time to mend before actively pursuing but I am a little mixed up on how she feels. I'll give the run down of the other night and then I'd like opinions on whether she may be interested in a future romantic relationship or not. She says she feels closer to me than anyone else in the world so I don't want to blow things here. Anyway, as I said it was too late for her to go home. She was exhausted so I gave her my bed and I took the floor in the other room. As I lay there it was all I could do not to rush into the bedroom and tell her again how I felt but I fought it. All I could do was think of her. I lay there for over an hour when my door opened ant it was her with pillows, sheets and blankets. At first she was in the easy chair and said she couldn't sleep. Somehow along the way, she ended up with me on the floor. We lay there all night together. During the night we talked a lot. There were times when we would play and giggle like little kids and other times she would break down crying leaving me to hold her. As the night progressed we began to lay closer and closer until we were touching at all times. Arms, legs, heads...I would grab her hand and hold it for a while then she'd rest her head on my arm. At times I'd stroke her cheek and tell her she was beautiful and the most important woman in the world. Other times, we'd just lay there looking at each other. Then...I'd smack her legs or something and we'd start playing again. We never did sleep but I don't even care. I know how it all sounds but this is a delicate situation that I am unsure of and she's an unusual woman. Still, I have a lots of female friends and if I behaved with them the way I do with her, I'd have my head knocked off in no time flat. Although she says I'm her best "friend" there's something about our relationship that says it's more than that. That's why I need a little advice. How long should I wait and where should I go from here? Does she even want to be pursued by me...is she interested or am I just being delusional and misreading the signals? Should I have a talk with her? I'm scared to bring it up, I can't lose this one. Help me please, I can't sleep, eat or breath any more.

 

Thanks so much for reading...I know it was long.

[carhill]

My instinct is she'll be pining for the ex for some time, or even get back with him. She knows where you are; she knows how you feel. Right now, IMO, you're a safe harbor on a dark stormy night. If you want her to heal/get over the past relationship, that is something she'll need to do without any romantic inputs from you.

 

If what you share is mutually elemental, it will be there when she's healed.

 

It's up to you whether you want to wait. Personally, and I've had experience here, I think it's better to date other people and enjoy yourself. Remain friends with her but diffuse sexual/romantic tensions or, if not feasible, cut contact for now.

[paddington bear]

I would say that you are safe for her now, you don't push her to do anything she doesn't want, you're acting like a gentleman - as in taking the floor while she had your bed. She knows she can cuddle up to you and touch you while still calling you 'friends' the next day. Friends do not have that kind of physical contact.

 

But...she knows how you feel. And your feelings for her have messed you up meeting anyone else.

 

I think you've waited long enough, time to take the bull by the horns or you will not be able to move on with your life.

 

Tell her what you've written (very eloquently I might add) here. That you realise she's just got out of a relationship, that you have deep feelings for her and that you don't want to put her under pressure, but that she has to tell you if she would ever return those feelings. If she says she needs time, give her time, but don't contact her within that time frame. Then meet or call her after a period of time has passed and ask if her feelings have changed.

 

There is only so long you can be expected to wait. You are in love with this woman and not knowing where you stand is only prolonging the agony. You sound like the kind of person who could approach that whole conversation sweetly and kindly. You NEED TO KNOW!!!

[carhill]

IME, people will say anything to preserve the status quo, even with the best of intentions. If this lady is getting her needs met by the OP, regardless of her awareness of or interest in his feelings, her instinct will be to preserve that. IMO, don't listen to what she says; rather, watch what she does. I say this because this woman has had long advance notice of the OP's romantic feelings for her. What one does with that information speaks volumes as to their potential to be a relationship partner as well as to their level of maturity.

 

Hoping for the best for you

[lovestruckartist]

IME, people will say anything to preserve the status quo, even with the best of intentions. If this lady is getting her needs met by the OP, regardless of her awareness of or interest in his feelings, her instinct will be to preserve that. IMO, don't listen to what she says; rather, watch what she does. I say this because this woman has had long advance notice of the OP's romantic feelings for her. What one does with that information speaks volumes as to their potential to be a relationship partner as well as to their level of maturity.

 

Hoping for the best for you

 

Thanks for the input on this. Yes, she had a long advance on how I feel but there's also the past relationship she just got out of. I understand that leaving isn't easy and not something that's done lightly. No matter my feelings, she still had another life with another man the years she spent with him carries a lot of weight in making the decision to end things. Making those types of decisions are very difficult for her and I understand so I never asked her to make one concerning me. I'm just the guy who came along a few years too late. With that said, she's single now and she needs time to sort things out. I'm just afraid that when the dust settles, I'll be destroyed. And as mentioned above, there is little chance of her going back to him. Whether or not she will ever want to be with me...only time will tell I guess but it sure won't be because I lacked the effort to make it happen. It's still hard to know which way to go without being sure of how she feels. As I said before, it just doesn't feel platonic...but what the heck do I know? I've got mostly female friends and I've never once laid down with any of them and touched and played all night. If anything, if I got too close to their "personal space" they would pull back. This girl only moves closer. I'll be a little more specific on the touching if it will help gauge the situation. She allows me to lay with her while my hand is resting across her abdomen or on her upper thigh. She allows me to rub her legs, feet and back while all she is wearing are "short" shorts and a small t-shirt. I run my fingers through her hair and play with her ears while I tease her in jest. She lets me caress her face while I tell her how special and beautiful she is. She gets so close that there is no choice but for our bodies to touch. She says she needs a little space so I move over but within a minute she's moves to be closer again. As I said...this is not something I do with any other female friend and it just seems so odd that one girl out of a dozen would allow all this and it still be seen as strictly platonic. Maybe I've got the wrong definition of platonic because our behavior together seems to be something more than that but not yet a relationship. The only thing I can compare it to are past romantic relationships. That is how I behaved with them. I'm so confused here because it seems like more but I can't tell where the line is drawn. I mean, she'll flirt some and ask me if I like certain parts of her body (like boobs & butt) She'll tell me how much she cares about me and how she doesn't want to lose me. I'm so frightened that I'll end up pushing her away if I reiterate how I feel. It would totally ruin me to lose her. I want to spend the rest of my life waking up to see her face. To me, she's everything. When I look in her eyes I can see so far into the future it goes beyond even my own life. When I touch her it's like I can feel the embodiment of love, life and meaning itself. The last two days since I saw her last, I've only slept for three hours and have barely eaten. All I can do is think of her. It sucks, I hate feeling like this.

[carhill]

Your behaviors are sexual. In the wise words of a good friend of mine, one who gave me the experience needed to understand your dynamic, "the physical part is easy".

 

Do you want an eventual romantic relationship with her? If you do, remember where she came from (her last R). She was in it a long time and it affected her. My friend related that there was a period after she left her husband (20 year very difficult M) that she went "nuts" and was very sexual with many men, IMO as a rebound from years of frustration and powerlessness.

 

Do you really think she's healthy enough for an emotional and spiritual relationship with you right now? If you continue being sexual with her, you will have sex (I'm assuming you haven't yet) and things likely will get very intense. My bet is one of you will go upside down and it'll blow up.

 

Happy to be wrong. Perhaps my experience is that, just my experience. I would never begrudge you a lifetime love. It's a really beautiful thing

[NewSunrise]

Here's a woman's POV.

 

Life has risks. And so is with love in any form. Your love for this woman is genuinely formed out of friendship. Most relationships begin on chemistry---sex on third date on average. You haven't even hit a home run. This speaks volume of your character as a person.

 

My BF has been my bestfriend for 13 years. He's seen me go through two marriages as I have seen him go through several serious relationships. Our relationship was purely platonic. Never at any moment did we cross the line. After divorcing my xWH, as close as we were, he couldn't muster the strength to ask me. Instead, he emailed me with the most heartwarming love letter any woman could melt over. I turned him down. I told him I wasn't ready and didn't want to use him as a rebound guy. He understood. He said he waited 13 years and he was willing to wait another if that's how long it will take.

 

My point, there is no time guideline when it comes to letting people know where you or they stand. In your case, since you two have been friends, ask her as you would with any female friends, where and how are things with her boyfriend. Ask if she's still in love with him and if she thinks he's the guy for her. Expect she'll asky you "why" you're asking. This is your moment. Let her know exactly how you feel and what your fears are. You still have the choice, no matter her answer, to protect yourself emotionally by not engaging into a full blown relationship.

 

My guess is if she weren't serious in pursuing a relationship with you, she would not have moved into your state. Until YOU tell her exactly how you feel, she will "think" that you only like her as a "friend", nothing more, and she will move on. There will be someone else who will have win her heart and you'll be left wondering forever asking yourself..."if only if".... The opportunity is knocking at your door. Are your going to open it and find out or are you going to keep it shut?

 

So take a risk and tell her. If her answer is no, chances are you two will still remain friends and you both will continue to mature.

 

Good luck.

[lovestruckartist]

Here's a woman's POV.

 

Life has risks. And so is with love in any form. Your love for this woman is genuinely formed out of friendship. Most relationships begin on chemistry---sex on third date on average. You haven't even hit a home run. This speaks volume of your character as a person.

 

My BF has been my bestfriend for 13 years. He's seen me go through two marriages as I have seen him go through several serious relationships. Our relationship was purely platonic. Never at any moment did we cross the line. After divorcing my xWH, as close as we were, he couldn't muster the strength to ask me. Instead, he emailed me with the most heartwarming love letter any woman could melt over. I turned him down. I told him I wasn't ready and didn't want to use him as a rebound guy. He understood. He said he waited 13 years and he was willing to wait another if that's how long it will take.

 

My point, there is no time guideline when it comes to letting people know where you or they stand. In your case, since you two have been friends, ask her as you would with any female friends, where and how are things with her boyfriend. Ask if she's still in love with him and if she thinks he's the guy for her. Expect she'll asky you "why" you're asking. This is your moment. Let her know exactly how you feel and what your fears are. You still have the choice, no matter her answer, to protect yourself emotionally by not engaging into a full blown relationship.

 

My guess is if she weren't serious in pursuing a relationship with you, she would not have moved into your state. Until YOU tell her exactly how you feel, she will "think" that you only like her as a "friend", nothing more, and she will move on. There will be someone else who will have win her heart and you'll be left wondering forever asking yourself..."if only if".... The opportunity is knocking at your door. So are your going to open it and find out or are you going to keep it closed?

 

So take a risk and tell her. If her answer is no, chances are you two will still remain friends and you both will continue to mature.

 

Good luck.

 

Thanks for the reply. She actually moved back to the state because she had nowhere else to go. Her mother lives here. I just talked to her mother and her mom told me that she was not interested in a relationship in the foreseeable future. She said that she wasn't ready for all of that yet and her "mom" didn't know if it would ever be with me when she is. Well, mom wasn't in the room with us. Mom hasn't had those hours long talks together so that isn't telling me a lot. I'm just walking on egg shells because it's only been a couple of weeks since she left the other guy. I don't want to frighten her or make her uncomfortable because of feelings that I can't control. I know she isn't ready to be serious with anyone and that's not what I want right now. I just want to know that when the time comes that I have a chance. Her mom says that she can't figure why I see her daughters actions as a sign of interest. I swear I must have been living under a rock and am just plain naive and stupid. I mean, WTF??? What kind of woman lets a man lay with her with his hands all over her if she isn't interested in something more...unless she's a whore and this one isn't. She's far from it.

[carhill]

OP, to some people, sexual behaviors are just mindless entertainment. No involvement; no engagement. It provides superficial pleasure.

 

You're frustrated and you're talking to her mom way too much IMO.

 

Not everything is at it seems. That's all I can say. That's a man's POV.

[Kindle]

I have to reply to this

 

I see myself in your story so i feel the need to comment.

 

My opinion is this, she trusts you, she has come from being abused straight into the arms of someone that finds her attractive, desirable and will boost her ego. If it wasnt you it would be someone else.

 

Im sorry if thats harsh, but i think thats reality. Thats not a refection on her personality - i did the same thing its a basic human desire at the time. No she wont be doing it intentionally but she will hurt you all the same.

 

The very worst thing you can do in my eyes is give in to her sexual playfulness, you will be the rebound guy.

My advice, tell her you love her, you will always be there for her and let her cry in your arms, but dont enter into a relationship with her yet. If she needs to be loved in that way, let her find someone else, and she will if you dont give in, but it wont last.

 

I would say that she really does have feelings for you and yes from what you have said i could see you being together, but now isnt the right time...but dont go NC, i think she needs you more than she probably realises.

[carhill]

The very worst thing you can do in my eyes is give in to her sexual playfulness, you will be the rebound guy.

My advice, tell her you love her, you will always be there for her and let her cry in your arms, but dont enter into a relationship with her yet. If she needs to be loved in that way, let her find someone else, and she will if you dont give in, but it wont last.

 

Pay attention to this, OP. It's an excellent perspective. I didn't have the stomach for the "cry in your arms" part because I was too emotionally invested (different story, not your issue), so I had to do NC just to survive. You may be different. This may work for you. I hope it does

[NewSunrise]

ALL POVs above are well said, including yours. IMO, you've answered your own dilemma.

I know she isn't ready to be serious with anyone and that's not what I want right now. I just want to know that when the time comes that I have a chance.

 

Still, doesn't hurt to tell her how you feel. There are no guarantees in life. And that seems to be what you're looking for with her---a guarantee that you'll have a chance with her should she come around or be emotionally "available". And even if when the opportunity comes, there are still no guarantees your relationship will last. The worst answer you'll get is that "she's not ready".

 

You might just add: "I"m not sure you're ready because maybe you're still in love with your ex. Even if you're not with him, the last thing I want to be to you is a rebound. I know I wouldn't want you to be a rebound girlfriend either if I were in the same situation. I would hope that we have enough respect for each other and value our friendship too much to let that happen. I just wanted to let you know that you'll always have me as a friend and if there's ever a time that you might be ready and consider giving another guy a chance, I'd find it an honor to be that guy."....hey, women still admire "old fashion", gentlemanly approach.

 

There are no mind games here. You seem receptive enough to know if she's playing mind games. You want honest relationship? You might as well start being honest about how you feel. She will either be honest with you or not. If you think she's only playing you, then set your ground rules and let her know and then decide if a NC is necessary. You'll know if her purpose with you is to take advantage of you. Besides you always have the option of running the other way.

 

Also, agree with carhill about you talking too much with her Mom. Don't think you'll get completely honest view from her Mom. Like any Mama Bear, she's there to protect her offspring even if it means lying. Don't call her just to talk about her daughter. Best you can do is always be cordial and respectful when she talks to you.

 

Good luck.

[lovestruckartist]

ALL POVs above are well said, including yours. IMO, you've answered your own dilemma.

 

 

Still, doesn't hurt to tell her how you feel. There are no guarantees in life. And that seems to be what you're looking for with her---a guarantee that you'll have a chance with her should she come around or be emotionally "available". And even if when the opportunity comes, there are still no guarantees your relationship will last. The worst answer you'll get is that "she's not ready".

 

You might just add: "I"m not sure you're ready because maybe you're still in love with your ex. Even if you're not with him, the last thing I want to be to you is a rebound. I know I wouldn't want you to be a rebound girlfriend either if I were in the same situation. I would hope that we have enough respect for each other and value our friendship too much to let that happen. I just wanted to let you know that you'll always have me as a friend and if there's ever a time that you might be ready and consider giving another guy a chance, I'd find it an honor to be that guy."....hey, women still admire "old fashion", gentlemanly approach.

 

There are no mind games here. You seem receptive enough to know if she's playing mind games. You want honest relationship? You might as well start being honest about how you feel. She will either be honest with you or not. If you think she's only playing you, then set your ground rules and let her know and then decide if a NC is necessary. You'll know if her purpose with you is to take advantage of you. Besides you always have the option of running the other way.

 

Also, agree with carhill about you talking too much with her Mom. Don't think you'll get completely honest view from her Mom. Like any Mama Bear, she's there to protect her offspring even if it means lying. Don't call her just to talk about her daughter. Best you can do is always be cordial and respectful when she talks to you.

 

Good luck.

 

Thanks, that sounds like the right way to do what I've been trying to figure out how to do. I agree that I talk to her mom about it too much but her mom is also one of my closest friends and says she's in my corner but at the same time is in the dark about some of the things that have gone on. I guess I need to not pay attention to anything but what this girl does and says instead of listening to a distorted second hand view. The biggest thing is the way she lets me touch her in the way that I do. She's a victim of sexual abuse in the past and isn't very trusting with a lot of people but seems to trust me above anyone else. Also, she said the guy she was with didn't make her feel "loved" during physical contact. To him sex was all a physical act with little to no emotion behind it. Although she and I haven't had sex, I almost think that she is picking up on how passionate I am when I care for a woman. See, to me, the little things she's let me get away with are a form of intimacy. The rubbing, the touching of thighs, stroking of hair and face...things like that. I don't see that as something "just friends" would do. I would never lay in bed with my female friends either. This is where my dilemma is so tricky. She says we are "best friends" and she feels closer to me than anyone else ever before. She calls me her angel and things like that. Then we engage in a lot of touchy feely activity and lay around with our bodies touching with bare skin. As I think I said...I'm not a stupid guy and I've been around myself. You are right in the way you said to go about approaching her. However, I feel like she would deny it if she does have feelings for me. It would really drive me nuts. How can someone who is not a loose person physically and trusts almost nobody in that regard behave in such a way and still say it's merely platonic? I take what you said under serious advisement. No mind games is my rule. And I don't think she's trying to play mind games or play with me at all emotionally. I don't think she's trying to use me...I know her and that is not part of her personality. Knowing that is what's screwing with me the hardest. I hate having "best friends"

[Yamaha]

You won't like my advise but you need to take her off the pedestal. If she's so great why did she date this deadbeat for so long? You have to be willing to lose her if you ever expect anything more than what you have now. She likes you because you are nice and she can feel good about herself around you. She soaks up the positive vibe you give her. Hell. what person wouldn't want someone around telling you your so great. It is a huge ego boost.

 

You have to start dating other women, right now. She needs to see another side of you. There is no guarantee it will work but it is the only hope you have of changing her interest. Don't always be available to her and have a life of your own. Let her see you having fun and talk about other woman around her. Flirt and let her see the man side of you, not just the gentleman.

 

If you think I'm wrong then just continue being the best friend and when you can't take it anymore, tell her you want more and then she will hurt you.

[lovestruckartist]

You won't like my advise but you need to take her off the pedestal. If she's so great why did she date this deadbeat for so long? You have to be willing to lose her if you ever expect anything more than what you have now. She likes you because you are nice and she can feel good about herself around you. She soaks up the positive vibe you give her. Hell. what person wouldn't want someone around telling you your so great. It is a huge ego boost.

 

You have to start dating other women, right now. She needs to see another side of you. There is no guarantee it will work but it is the only hope you have of changing her interest. Don't always be available to her and have a life of your own. Let her see you having fun and talk about other woman around her. Flirt and let her see the man side of you, not just the gentleman.

 

If you think I'm wrong then just continue being the best friend and when you can't take it anymore, tell her you want more and then she will hurt you.

 

Trust me, this isn't the same as the best friend not getting the girl...I went that route with someone else but you are right about one thing. It's odd because just before I checked back here I was busy arranging a date with a very good looking woman. I made sure it was someone from my "little black book" that looks a lot like her. I hate doing the make her jealous thing but it's all I can think of at the moment and I figured what better way than to use a girl that looks like her. It's also I little screwed up to use this other girl like that I know but ...what the hell. This is a screwed up situation. I'm going to get the one I want if I have to tare down mountains with my bare hands. I'm not repeating the past, I'm going to have this woman. The question is, timing.

[paddington bear]

After reading the other posts (sorry, haven't figured out how to do the quote thing here), I think, yes, there's partly an ego-boost thing going on, Yamaha said 'you need to take her off the pedestal' - I think this is easier said than done, sounds to me like you've fallen hard and it will be difficult for you than to suddenly think of her other than the perfect woman for you to spend the rest of your life with, however, he has a point, try to step back and assess her, her actions from a distanced perspective.

 

Unrequited love is horrible. I will repeat that, HORRIBLE. You have all the feelings of love and desire and no outlet or proper reciprocation, therein lies madness - believe you me I've been there.

 

I know you want to be kind to her, but think selfishly about yourself and your needs for a moment. What do you want? What do you need? How long are you willing to let this situation go on for, while putting your life on hold for this woman?

 

And most important of all: which would be worse, that you tell her now and risk losing her or to not tell her and live in this state of not knowing indefinitely? If you have a definite answer from her you can either progress with her as a couple or get over your heartbreak and eventually move on. Even if you won't like the answer, it's always better to know, who knows the answer might be 'I'm not ready right now, please give me time, I think we have a real connection'.

 

By the way, again the physical intimacy is not what platonic friends do - if you do build up the courage to say something to her and she says she doesn't feel that way about you, just think about her actions while in bed with you, if she doesn't want to go there with you, she is leading you on - maybe not consciously, maybe just to make herself feel better, maybe she thinks you're fine with it and so on. But you're not fine with it and I agree again with previous poster, to stop all this fondling in the dark. If it's not done with serious intent it's just unfair on you, whether she means it intentionally or not.