The Old Porno Argument!

[soserious1]

 

I respectfully disagree with you, 2nd Best, as I don't think that women have evolved much at all. I think they are mostly still the same wonderful nurturing, caring, empathizing creatures they were on day one, better than us crude guys across the board in all those respects. Much like men, they are playing the hand that biology dealt them. Don't you think we (the two genders) complement each other a little bit?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

 

No, not at all, what men want is a little wifey that'll be off scrubbing the toilet while they sit in front of the computer dick in hand jerking off. Men want to pledge monogamy but then find every loop hole they can out of the arrangement that stops just short of actual physical cheating. they expect women though to hold to the contract, we're supposed to nurture and caretake for you as if you were little boys.

 

If a man said "I'll marry you,allow you to cook and clean for me, to bear and care for my babies, I'll expect you to also hold a job and to be physically and emotionally faithful to me. In return I'll be faithful to you till you're scared and marked from child bearing or you grow too old to physically excite me and I need "variety" then I'll surf for porn till my eyes bleed, openly ogle young women in front of you.I expect that you'll ignore this and act happy and grateful that I've settled for you and am not actally out fscking other women even though, I desparately want to"

 

How many couples would still walk down that aisle?

[c-riouz]

If men want variety, then why are they getting in a relationship with ONE woman? I bet if men had the choice to sleep with every attractive woman on this planet and there was a 100% guarantee of not getting caught, men would do it. Or, in other words from a famous/infamous book: "If a man is given the opportunity to engage in sexual relations with an attractive female, with no fear of getting caught and little risk of transmitted diseases, he will do so. Always. Without fail. There are no exceptions ." I think so too and slowly but surely I guess it's better to stay single - why even bother with a man if we as an individual person will never be enough anyway since men "crave variety"? Biology always is a very convenient and lazy excuse.....and if a man watches porn in order not to cheat, if there's only these two options - cheating or watching porn - then there's no point in getting into a committed relationship at all. It just shows disrespect and lack of loyalty.

[Jersey Shortie]

If a man said "I'll marry you,allow you to cook and clean for me, to bear and care for my babies, I'll expect you to also hold a job and to be physically and emotionally faithful to me. In return I'll be faithful to you till you're scared and marked from child bearing or you grow too old to physically excite me and I need "variety" then I'll surf for porn till my eyes bleed, openly ogle young women in front of you.I expect that you'll ignore this and act happy and grateful that I've settled for you and am not actally out fscking other women even though, I desparately want to"

 

Unfortunetly, I have to agree that that is what most men want even if they don't directly say it.

 

 

 

Part of your problem, Jersey. The name is supposed to be a joke, I made it up. But you're so uptight is a painfully polically correct way that your keyboard probably squeaks while you're posting. Loosen up.

 

 

What that saying..things said in jest still have a ring of truth. Regardless if you were joking or not, alot of movies do refer to females as "sluts, bitches, whores". You get frustrated with the name calling you think I'm doing yet you don't understand how the name calling men use towards women and suppport towards women is hurtful. Watching the men we care about look at these types of movies that treat women no better then a hole is hurtful. It doesn't make us think we can trust you and be vunerable with you. These are honest questions. Will you continue to dodge and focus on insignificant details and respond to that instead of the real tough issues being discussed here?

 

 

I respectfully disagree with you, 2nd Best, as I don't think that women have evolved much at all. I think they are mostly still the same wonderful nurturing, caring, empathizing creatures they were on day one, better than us crude guys across the board in all those respects. Much like men, they are playing the hand that biology dealt them. Don't you think we (the two genders) complement each other a little bit?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

You do yourself and those wonderful nurturing, caring, empathizing creatures who actually do care for you a huge disservice by setting them to a higher standard and responsiblity then you set for yourself and other men. Do you really want us to smile and think it's endearing that men are aloud to be lazy and "crude" and women are suppose to take on all the responsiblity to be loving, kind, nurturing, caring and empahtizing with nothing in return but "crude men"? Maybe that is why you think we compliment each other. Because most men seem to think that women should hold more of the responsiblity while they are aloud to cater to their more selfish desires and expect us to still think they are wonderful caring men when they don't want to do anything to back it up.

 

I do think men and women compliment each other. But that doesn't mean that men and women are suppose to cater to every little whim or fancy they feel in their pants or out of them. When you have both men and women catering to such desires, it is more about that person then any relationship they have. It isn't attractive to either sex when the other sex behaves in a manner that is most self serving to them. That isn't about complimenting each other.

[morelaugh]

Much like men, they are playing the hand that biology dealt them.

I can easily agree with that.

 

Don't you think we (the two genders) complement each other a little bit?

Without thinking - yes.

 

After a little bit of thinking – no I don’t think they do. I can’t even think of one example.

 

Especially not in this context – how watching porn and lusting over other women complements a woman?

[Mr. Lucky]

I think so too and slowly but surely I guess it's better to stay single - why even bother with a man if we as an individual person will never be enough anyway since men "crave variety"?

OK, so you don't want to be in a relationship with a man. What other options do you have? Alone, untouched and unloved doesn't sound like much fun. Same-sex relationships aren't for everyone. What's your "Plan B" ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mr. Lucky]

These are honest questions. Will you continue to dodge and focus on insignificant details and respond to that instead of the real tough issues being discussed here?

Well Jersey, I'm neither on trial here nor has anyone elected me spokesman for "men". So like you, I'll choose my opportunities to respond.

 

I feel I've come around somewhat on my POV. Reading here has helped me understand that porn, taken to excess, certainly can undermine a relationship. What about you? Your posts seem as dogmatic and cliche ridden as ever, lacking even minimal effort to see any other perspective than your own. Given that fixed mindset, I'm probably wasting my time. I'm not the first person to arrive at that conclusion...

 

Mr. Lucky

[morelaugh]

My theory about women who have this problem is that they simply love too much.

 

They are so in love with their SO that they genuinely feel he is the best thing that ever happened to them.

 

They fantasize about him when they masturbate, they don’t notice other men at all. They are so much into the relationship; they are usually very sexual and very ‘daring’ in the bedroom. Quite often very imaginative, which ironically drives men to porn more than if they weren’t.

 

They are into sex with him totally and completely and when they discover his ‘other interests’ they can’t comprehend why. Mainly they conclude that it’s the women – young, big breasted, groomed to an average man’s liking (often freaky for her taste, but still something her bf finds incredibly sexy)

 

Typically, their man’s lust for other women is a pretty bad turn off for them.

 

They withdraw sexually, they get angry, they get sad, they question their own attractiveness... They try to accept, they try to do something, and mainly they suffer most of the time.

 

The solution is really quite simple:

Stop loving so much.

 

First of all, step back – your bf or husband is really nothing so special – just a normal guy.

 

Second, you probably won’t find too many men who are not interested in other women, so try to concentrate on what YOU need and get from the relationship. Most women with this problem get very deeply involved. Rule number 1: Don’t get too involved. Think about your needs first (ironically this will work better than selflessly putting his needs first and feeling betrayed in the process)

 

Think what he can do for you, not what you can do for him.

Again, ironically he will want you more for that.

 

If you feel like you are using him, try to suppress this thought, or better still, enjoy it if you can.

Move your state of mind from ‘am I good enough for him’ to ‘is he good enough for me’. (Most men who defend their right to other women like their life depends on it probably are not)

Even then, even if you decide that he is not good enough long term, do what men do all the time – enjoy while someone better comes along. And I don’t necessarily mean sex – enjoy your time with him the way YOU like.

Concentrate on YOURSELF and your own needs.

 

Expect him to do what you want rather than desperately try to do what you THINK he wants.

 

Enjoy men for what they have to offer – for sex, money, companionship... whatever you feel like.

Use them if you want.

 

But enjoy your life. It is less important if they enjoy theirs (and it is not your responsibility anyway)

 

Love yourself

[soserious1]

OK, so you don't want to be in a relationship with a man. What other options do you have? Alone, untouched and unloved doesn't sound like much fun. Same-sex relationships aren't for everyone. What's your "Plan B" ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Enjoying men for basically the only thing they have to offer.. the meat stick, use once or twice, discard, back on with our lives. What men have to offer certainly isn't worth any worry or work on women's parts.

 

Companionship? most men I've known tune right out when a woman is speaking unless the convo revolves around serving him food, taking over responsibility for care taking for his parents,sports, beer,power tools, the big tits on the waitress or the possibility of a threesome with her hot best friend. If a woman wants conversations that center around her interests occasionally sans eye rolling,tooth sucking and foot tapping contempt,all she needs is a few good female friends.

 

Love from a man ? that basically centers around what a woman does for him ie: Care taking, it's 2008, most women work full time or more and the pleasure afforded by occasionally being able to play cowgirl,riding the meat stick isn't worth hours spent cooking,cleaning and washing the skid marks out of a man's BVD's, if a woman enjoys caretaking she'd be better off getting a dog, they're a lot more loyal.

 

Men can then seek all the "variety" they want, they can surf for porn till their eyes bleed,ogle college co-eds everywhere they go, they'll have to negotiate with their mothers for the rest of their daily needs though.

 

Men and women basically have nothing in common that unites us on more than a temporary basis .. best to accept and deal with that reality,we'd all be better off for it.

[Mr. Lucky]

Enjoying men for basically the only thing they have to offer.. the meat stick, use once or twice, discard, back on with our lives. What men have to offer certainly isn't worth any worry or work on women's parts.

So you admire your emotionally stunted and sociopathic STBX husband's approach so much that you decided to copy it? Because you sound exactly like your desription of him...

 

Mr. Lucky

[soserious1]

So you admire your emotionally stunted and sociopathic STBX husband's approach so much that you decided to copy it? Because you sound exactly like your desription of him...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

No, Mr Lucky but you've been sitting here telling women that men will just basically continue to lust after other women no matter what we do.You've asked if somehow men and women "compliment" one another,even just a little bit.You're asking women if what men offer is worth what we have to give up to get it, you're suggesting that somehow care taking for you guys and ignoring your need for "variety" like we were your indulgent mothers is a benefit or reward to us and I'm here to tell you that from my POV that it's not.

 

IMHO,what men have to offer women isn't worth much,certainly not worth

years of care taking and tolerating men's fondness for porn and ogling other women. If a woman rides the meat stick a time or two and then both move on, both parties receive equal pleasure,nobody is deceived, no cost or loss to either.

 

My ex is not rare, he is not unusual in any respect, he wanted a wife/mommie somebody to clean and cook,to take over responsibility for upkeeping his relationships with his extended family, somebody to work and bring in money and most importantly a wife who would smile at him fondly and indulgently saying "boys will be boys" to excuse his obvious open admiration and lust for other women. He had zero interest in or much tolerance for anything that might interest me or any concern for my physical well being aside from worrying about how my problems or concerns might impact the family's fiscal bottom line or in meeting his needs. IMHO, he's not rare,not rare at all, men and women have different needs and different agenda's, at best our concerns overlap on a temp basis only.

[manugeorge]

My theory about women who have this problem is that they simply love too much.

 

They are so in love with their SO that they genuinely feel he is the best thing that ever happened to them.

 

They fantasize about him when they masturbate, they don’t notice other men at all. They are so much into the relationship; they are usually very sexual and very ‘daring’ in the bedroom. Quite often very imaginative, which ironically drives men to porn more than if they weren’t.

 

They are into sex with him totally and completely and when they discover his ‘other interests’ they can’t comprehend why. Mainly they conclude that it’s the women – young, big breasted, groomed to an average man’s liking (often freaky for her taste, but still something her bf finds incredibly sexy)

 

Typically, their man’s lust for other women is a pretty bad turn off for them.

 

They withdraw sexually, they get angry, they get sad, they question their own attractiveness... They try to accept, they try to do something, and mainly they suffer most of the time.

 

The solution is really quite simple:

Stop loving so much.

 

First of all, step back – your bf or husband is really nothing so special – just a normal guy.

 

Second, you probably won’t find too many men who are not interested in other women, so try to concentrate on what YOU need and get from the relationship. Most women with this problem get very deeply involved. Rule number 1: Don’t get too involved. Think about your needs first (ironically this will work better than selflessly putting his needs first and feeling betrayed in the process)

 

Think what he can do for you, not what you can do for him.

Again, ironically he will want you more for that.

 

If you feel like you are using him, try to suppress this thought, or better still, enjoy it if you can.

Move your state of mind from ‘am I good enough for him’ to ‘is he good enough for me’. (Most men who defend their right to other women like their life depends on it probably are not)

Even then, even if you decide that he is not good enough long term, do what men do all the time – enjoy while someone better comes along. And I don’t necessarily mean sex – enjoy your time with him the way YOU like.

Concentrate on YOURSELF and your own needs.

 

Expect him to do what you want rather than desperately try to do what you THINK he wants.

 

Enjoy men for what they have to offer – for sex, money, companionship... whatever you feel like.

Use them if you want.

 

But enjoy your life. It is less important if they enjoy theirs (and it is not your responsibility anyway)

 

Love yourself

 

You know what? I agree with you 100%. When you don't think enough of yourself as a person, you don't think you are good enough unless some guy puts his stamp of approval on you, ofcourse, you are going to have major issues like this porn business.

 

When you grow up with that bs romantic notion in your head that a man or woman is the be all and end all of your existence then you are bound to constantly be disappointed when reality does set in.

 

I blame it all on society, women raised as princesses waiting all their lives for the knight in shining armor to come and rescue them, save the day and solve all their problems. puhlease:rolleyes:

 

This is why people constantly argue that monogamy is not natural, it's a societal construct. Moreover, marrying for romantic love alone is also a societal construct that has led us to place such high expectations on the opposite sex. High expectations that only breeds dissapointments and resentment.

[soserious1]

You know what? I agree with you 100%. When you don't think enough of yourself as a person, you don't think you are good enough unless some guy puts his stamp of approval on you, ofcourse, you are going to have major issues like this porn business.

 

When you grow up with that bs romantic notion in your head that a man or woman is the be all and end all of your existence then you are bound to constantly be disappointed when reality does set in.

 

I blame it all on society, women raised as princesses waiting all their lives for the knight in shining armor to come and rescue them, save the day and solve all their problems. puhlease:rolleyes:

 

This is why people constantly argue that monogamy is not natural, it's a societal construct. Moreover, marrying for romantic love alone is also a societal construct that has led us to place such high expectations on the opposite sex. High expectations that only breeds dissapointments and resentment.

 

And once again blame is heaped on the head of women.

 

If you really,really love variety, ogling different women, surfing for porn, why bother getting married ? Stay single and keep all your options open, enjoy the bachelor lifestyle.

[trubella]

If you really,really love variety, ogling different women, surfing for porn, why bother getting married ? Stay single and keep all your options open, enjoy the bachelor lifestyle.

 

why does one have to be single to want to look at different porn. why cant you have both? dont think theres anything wrong with that as long as its not an addiction and your SO isnt neglected because of it.

[soserious1]

why does one have to be single to want to look at different porn. why cant you have both? dont think theres anything wrong with that as long as its not an addiction and your SO isnt neglected because of it.

 

There's nothing wrong with having both as long as you are 100 % clear upfront at the beginning of a relationship so that prospective partners can make an informed choice.

[Mr. Lucky]

When you grow up with that bs romantic notion in your head that a man or woman is the be all and end all of your existence then you are bound to constantly be disappointed when reality does set in.

Not only am I not capable of that type of "you will think of me and me only" romantic love, I wouldn't want to be loved that way. When my partner only sees herself as a mirror that reflects her insecurities about what I might be thinking, what is she bringing to the relationship? No bigger turn-off than ongoing emotional neediness...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

OK, so you don't want to be in a relationship with a man. What other options do you have? Alone, untouched and unloved doesn't sound like much fun. Same-sex relationships aren't for everyone. What's your "Plan B" ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Maybe it's alot better then the hurt and pain alot of men seem to want to put the women they claim they love through. Alone, untouched or unloved or in a supposedly "loving" relationship where you sit and watch the man that "loves" you ogle other women, look at porn, and talk about how much better his need for variety and youth trumps anything you've done for him in his life. Alone, untouched ad unloved isn't looking so bad.

 

When my partner only sees herself as a mirror that reflects her insecurities about what I might be thinking, what is she bringing to the relationship? No bigger turn-off than ongoing emotional neediness...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Funny that. You are turned off by what you described as "ongoing emotional neediness". What the women here are describing is being turne off by "ongoing sexual neediness". It's a turn off. It's a turn off to watch the man you love pander to his less noble and self serving desires. It s a turn off to think about how many men pathetically rather connect with a video image.."as long as it doesn't interfer with his real sex life"...at least some of the time and use the fake video fantasy in conjecture with his real one.

 

Although, this isn't about women seeing themselves as mirrors to reflect their insecurities about what their partner is thinking. Many men DO infact seem to be thinking about other women, either their waitress or the girl in porn. Many men DO infact seem to want a harem of women. Many men DO infact seem to think that ogling young women is okay and their wives should be happy with this and even think their husbands and boyfriends are still wonderful despite the total lack of respect they are giving their wife/gf. Please tell me what false ideas women are "thinking" when the men they love are making it obvious what they are thinking. And lets be honest, these men aren't thinking about honoring and respecting their gfs and wives. They are thinking about hte big breasted 20 year old.

[soserious1]

Not only am I not capable of that type of "you will think of me and me only" romantic love, I wouldn't want to be loved that way. When my partner only sees herself as a mirror that reflects her insecurities about what I might be thinking, what is she bringing to the relationship? No bigger turn-off than ongoing emotional neediness...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

Men won't compromise on the mere right to openly lust after other women, no,they want to retain that right along with the expectation that we will stay sweet,loving wife mommies, catering to and meeting your daily needs.

We're supposed to pretend we don't notice your obvious interest in other women, we're supposed to act all thrilled and grateful that you'll come dump a load of your jizm our way after you view porn.

 

Men don't like it when women put themselves and their needs first,they don't like it one little bit,they dont like being told, "hey it's your right to watch porn but please finish pleasuring yourself when you're done instead of using me as your kleenex"

 

If it is such a horrible struggle to attempt to remain faithful,in both mind and body, if having sex with just one lil'l inadequate wife is such a hard,horrible sacrifice that you feel should rate you a medal of honor, why not just stay single?

[Mr. Lucky]

Many men DO infact seem to be thinking about other women, either their waitress or the girl in porn. Many men DO infact seem to want a harem of women. Many men DO infact seem to think that ogling young women is okay and their wives should be happy with this and even think their husbands and boyfriends are still wonderful despite the total lack of respect they are giving their wife/gf. Please tell me what false ideas women are "thinking" when the men they love are making it obvious what they are thinking.

All of this angst over what your partner might be thinking, to what purpose? So that you can be assured that he's thinking only of you, staying emotionally faithful and avoiding "mental adultery"? And his thought purity is measured how, exactly, and to whose standards? How can that not be seen as an insecurity bordering on neurotic? If that's not needy, then I don't know what is.

 

I would perhaps suggest wrapping his head in tinfoil to keep any of the "bad thoughts" from filtering in...

 

Mr. Lucky

[soserious1]

Maybe it's alot better then the hurt and pain alot of men seem to want to put the women they claim they love through. Alone, untouched or unloved or in a supposedly "loving" relationship where you sit and watch the man that "loves" you ogle other women, look at porn, and talk about how much better his need for variety and youth trumps anything you've done for him in his life. Alone, untouched ad unloved isn't looking so bad.

 

 

 

Funny that. You are turned off by what you described as "ongoing emotional neediness". What the women here are describing is being turne off by "ongoing sexual neediness". It's a turn off. It's a turn off to watch the man you love pander to his less noble and self serving desires. It s a turn off to think about how many men pathetically rather connect with a video image.."as long as it doesn't interfer with his real sex life"...at least some of the time and use the fake video fantasy in conjecture with his real one.

 

Although, this isn't about women seeing themselves as mirrors to reflect their insecurities about what their partner is thinking. Many men DO infact seem to be thinking about other women, either their waitress or the girl in porn. Many men DO infact seem to want a harem of women. Many men DO infact seem to think that ogling young women is okay and their wives should be happy with this and even think their husbands and boyfriends are still wonderful despite the total lack of respect they are giving their wife/gf. Please tell me what false ideas women are "thinking" when the men they love are making it obvious what they are thinking. And lets be honest, these men aren't thinking about honoring and respecting their gfs and wives. They are thinking about hte big breasted 20 year old.

 

 

 

I just wish somebody would give me an instruction sheet.. when we're in a restauarant and he stops speaking in mid-sentence because he's busy staring at some young woman, what am I supposed to do? When he's openly checking out some gal, where should I put my eyes? Should I go silent and stare at the floor or continue prattling on. If I go silent when he finally turns back to me and says "Ï'm sorry what were you saying?" is it ok to reply "nothing" ? if my appetite is then gone is it okay to ask that my meal be boxed up or to simply leave it there untouched?

 

 

What exactly am I supposed to do, how exactly am I supposed to respond?

[soserious1]

All of this angst over what your partner might be thinking, to what purpose? So that you can be assured that he's thinking only of you, staying emotionally faithful and avoiding "mental adultery"? And his thought purity is measured how, exactly, and to whose standards? How can that not be seen as an insecurity bordering on neurotic? If that's not needy, then I don't know what is.

 

I would perhaps suggest wrapping his head in tinfoil to keep any of the "bad thoughts" from filtering in...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Actually a better assumption is to go with the idea that when it comes to sex,the last person he's thinking of is you.

[Mr. Lucky]

If it is such a horrible struggle to attempt to remain faithful,in both mind and body, if having sex with just one lil'l inadequate wife is such a hard,horrible sacrifice that you feel should rate you a medal of honor, why not just stay single?

Having been happily married for 22 years, I've never been tempted to be unfaithful . I guess that takes care of the "body" portion of your question.

 

How do you define faithful "in mind" ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[soserious1]

Having been happily married for 22 years, I've never been tempted to be unfaithful . I guess that takes care of the "body" portion of your question.

 

How do you define faithful "in mind" ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

How about this as compromise.. men can have their porn, they can openly and unashamedly admire and ogle other women.. but that if they become sexually excited by this,that they are requested to please take care of themselves.

 

If a man gets excited by porn or another woman why is servicing his erection suddenly my problem? Why am I supposed to act all pleased and grateful to be nothing more essentially than a human kleenex? I mean there's no shortage of toilet paper in this house why can'the use that instead?

[Mr. Lucky]

Alone, untouched and unloved isn't looking so bad.

While I agree that your belief system seems to back you into that corner, it that really what you want? I'm not sure how many converts that party line is going to get you ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[soserious1]

While I agree that your belief system seems to back you into that corner, it that really what you want? I'm not sure how many converts that party line is going to get you ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I agree with her.. I'd much rather be alone than accept men's versions of love and devotion. Sorry ,Mr Lucky but playing wife/mommie, scrubbing the skid marks out of hubby's BVD's so he can have more time to surf for lesbian co-eds on the internet isn't my idea of a good deal.

[Mr. Lucky]

How about this as compromise.. men can have their porn, they can openly and unashamedly admire and ogle other women.. but that if they become sexually excited by this,that they are requested to please take care of themselves.

So your man can come to you, but only if his thoughts are based on you and meet your pre-established standards of approval?

 

Mr. Lucky