The Old Porno Argument!

[Mr. Lucky]

with allegiance to none

Not even to yourself? I guess your STBXH wins. Because he gets to leave and still control you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[morelaugh]

So how does your partner legitimately reassure you that his thoughts and fantasies meet your standards and merit your approval? And if it's so critically important to you, what do you do when he "falls off the wagon" and notices one or two of the other females on the planet?

Mr. Lucky

The same way your partner legitimately reassures you she doesn’t have sex with other people.

You know her, you talk, you ask....

 

And why do you assume he DOES ‘fall off the wagon’?

That would be the same as if I asked you: What do you do when your wife “falls of the wagon” and has sex with one or two of the other males on the planet?

 

There are 6 billion people on this planet – don’t you think that there is a possibility that some of them (or should I say some men) don’t feel exactly the same as you do?

 

Why would the idea that your partner "thinks" about someone else be so threatening to you? If he fantasizes about someone else, what harm or loss have you suffered?

Mr. Lucky

Again – the same.

What harm or loss have you suffered if your wife had sex with someone else?

[morelaugh]

Not even to yourself? I guess your STBXH wins. Because he gets to leave and still control you...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

If I didn’t know better, I’d thought you’re deliberately trying to hurt her just to shut her up and prove your point.

 

Look, this is probably the first time in her life that he DOESN’T have control over her.

Even if she is a little bit confused, that is understandable.

If she’s bitter and disappointed, that’s understandable.

 

Who wouldn’t be in her place?

[mrsT]

Good arguments. What does it hurt if she sleeps with someone else?

 

As a man thinks in his heart, so he is. That's why Jesus said if you have even looked upon another person with lust, you have already committed adultery in your heart. Now you don't have to be a Christian to know that this is true. Who dares argue with such wisdom?

 

Men here, is it in your best interest to keep arguing this point? This point that a person's thoughts are innocuous? What action has not started with a thought? Instead of justifying these feelings you should learn to vanquish them. I assure you, they are not in your best interests. They will not bring you love and intimacy, which are truly the deepest desires of your heart. These other desires of yours, for more and more beautiful women, are not about beauty, love, sex or desire. They are about power. And the same goes for women who constantly need men's attention and men's eyes on them. It is about power for them, too. These type women and the men who can't take there eyes off them are birds of a feather in that they truly feel insignificant and desire human power more than anything. This desire is unfortunately the building block of their day. As the song goes, "while the ship bearing their dreams sails out of sight." IE, they are competing for attention and rubbernecking while their dreams of being loved pass them by.

[Mr. Lucky]

If I didn’t know better, I’d thought you’re deliberately trying to hurt her just to shut her up and prove your point.

Not my intention at all. Trying to get her to see that in giving up on herself she's still playing his game.

 

Look, this is probably the first time in her life that he DOESN’T have control over her.

Even if she is a little bit confused, that is understandable.

If she’s bitter and disappointed, that’s understandable.

 

Who wouldn’t be in her place?

Certainly, anyone would be hurt and bitter after that relationship. But as with most things here at LS, the real question is "What next ?" Continuing with the mindset that she has nothing to offer only stops her from moving on. From my mid 50's POV, she's still a young woman with much life left to live. What is she going to do with it?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mr. Lucky]

And why do you assume he DOES ‘fall off the wagon’?

Morelaugh, you can certainly go through life thinking that, from the moment you meet him, your BF or husband will never look at, think about or fantasize about another woman, either in media or real life. As a man, I think that's an unrealistic assumption, but that's just my opinion.

Again – the same.

What harm or loss have you suffered if your wife had sex with someone else?

It's the same that the thought of having sex with someone else is the same as physically having sex with them? I'm having a hard time accepting that even you believe that thought or impulse is the same as action. If your theory is true, the detectives will be knocking on my door any second - I've had many daydreams about assasinating my micro-managing, anal-retentive boss...

 

Mr. Lucky

[mrsT]

A wise person once said, "You can't stop the birds from flying overhead, but you don't have to let them build nests in your hair."

 

Why would you invite these random thoughts in your head and ultimately your heart just because they come to you?

 

Do I have to let in everyone that knocks on my front door?

[Jersey Shortie]

Certainly, anyone would be hurt and bitter after that relationship. But as with most things here at LS, the real question is "What next ?" Continuing with the mindset that she has nothing to offer only stops her from moving on. From my mid 50's POV, she's still a young woman with much life left to live. What is she going to do with it?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

It doesn't seem like overall women really don't have alot to offer men, by men's perceptions. Especially so for women over 50. She can move on and try to have another relationship with another man. But will he also be viewing porn, looking at 20 year olds on their day's out together...what woman wants to get in line for that? And we know that men do infact do these things to varying degrees.

 

 

 

 

It's the same that the thought of having sex with someone else is the same as physically having sex with them? I'm having a hard time accepting that even you believe that thought or impulse is the same as action. If your theory is true, the detectives will be knocking on my door any second - I've had many daydreams about assasinating my micro-managing, anal-retentive boss...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Do you really not understand why having a daydream about having wild sex with the cute girl next door is more hurtful and seems more of a threat then a day dream of something so far out in left field as "assasinating" your anal retentive boss? It seems you think that some women want to control men's fantasy. while it seems that some men want to control the way women react to things.

 

Physically sleeping with someone and thinking about sleeping with them is not the same thing. It doesn't mean that you are in some way being deceitful and deceptive by entertaining ideas of other women over that of your wife. there is some amount of betrayl there and it shows what is most important to a man in the moment. Whether you think it should be or shouldn't, it can be very over whelming and threating to know that no matter what you do as a woman, no matter how you treat the man you love, there is nothing you can do to make him take pride in his monogmy to you. That what he really desires, the thoughts inside his heart, is of all the things he can't have that is new and different. No woman can compete or compare. And we can make some flowerly fake comments that *she* is what he loves and cares for. And he probably does. But he does not love and care for above his own desire to fantasy about othe rwomen. The fact that so many men do not even want to control this impluse speaks volumes about it's importance in their life.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Sigh. Do I really want to do this? It may be more productive to find a brick wall to slam my face against.

 

Alas, here we go... again.

 

It doesn't seem like overall women really don't have alot to offer men, by men's perceptions.

 

Were that true, we would not seek them out. Yet we do.

 

But will he also be viewing porn, looking at 20 year olds on their day's out together...what woman wants to get in line for that?

 

Well, I'll give you credit that you acknowledge the statistical likelihood of any given man being a porn user is high, some women just assume (for no reason other than their unstated hopes) that their SO's do not, when statistically the exact opposite is more likely to be true.

 

But here you go with your over-generalization again. "What women wants to get in line for that..." Many women do. Take my wife, she's a much bigger porn hound than am I. Given our lifestyle, though, we both find it boring to an extent... why watch it when we could be doing it?

 

Do you really not understand why having a daydream about having wild sex with the cute girl next door is more hurtful

 

No, I don't. It seems unrealistically controlling and manipulative. That actual, real world, physical sexual monogamy is necessary for a successful relationship is an artifical social construct hoisted upon us by our forefathers, and I believe it's likely root cause was to ensure paternity (cause if my wife didn't have sex with anyone but me, it's a safe bet that's my kid). We have then taken it a step further and artificially decided that sex=love. Ergo, any sex with someone who ain't me means my SO loves them and NOT me, which means they're going to leave me, and I'm going to lose out.

 

Which is of course all completely ridiculous, but now you come along and think you can add thought crimes to the mix? As if.

 

My wife is my wife, and she's loving and wonderful, and the best thing that ever happened to me. But I don't own her, nor can she can't provide me with 100% of everything I need in life, including my sexuality. Same for her. Your expectation of mental chastity is so completely off the charts ridiculous (not to mention literally impossible as we do not and cannot control our thoughts to that degree) that arguing against it is almost unnecessary. Why I have chosen to do so is a mystery to me.

 

Whether you think it should be or shouldn't, it can be very over whelming and threating to know that no matter what you do as a woman, no matter how you treat the man you love, there is nothing you can do to make him take pride in his monogmy to you.

 

Let me ask you a question. Why is monogamy, any kind of monogamy, be it literal, hypothetical, mental, spiritual, whatever... why is it important to you? Why does it matter at all? Please do answer this, as I have some very specific reasons for asking.

 

But he does not love and care for above his own desire to fantasy about other women. The fact that so many men do not even want to control this impluse speaks volumes about it's importance in their life.

 

As a follow-up to my question above, why does the mental fantasies of your SO matter? Why is it important that he be chaste? What does it mean?

[soserious1]

Not my intention at all. Trying to get her to see that in giving up on herself she's still playing his game.

 

 

Certainly, anyone would be hurt and bitter after that relationship. But as with most things here at LS, the real question is "What next ?" Continuing with the mindset that she has nothing to offer only stops her from moving on. From my mid 50's POV, she's still a young woman with much life left to live. What is she going to do with it?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

I can tell you what I'm not going to do with my life Mr Lucky,I'm not going

to share my money with a man, I'm not going to cook for men,clean their houses, do their laundry, care take for them when they're sick I'm not going to take responsibility for step-parenting their children or caring for their aging parents. Been there,done that and have concluded what men offer in exchange isn't worth it the work,effort or self-sacrifice.

[soserious1]

Not even to yourself? I guess your STBXH wins. Because he gets to leave and still control you...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

Wrong, what my ex wanted was to stay here, with me continuing to foot all the bills, he wanted me to agree to a chaste,sexless marriage, he expected that I would not look outside the marriage either, he also expected that I would remain,loving,warm, concerned, caring to,for and about him, he also expected frequent verbal expressions of gratitute, me expressing how lucky I was to have a husband.

 

That to him would have been the "control" you speak of.He's quite upset that I refuse to know and stay in my place..that of the blue haired, asexual grandmother.

[Mr. Lucky]

I can tell you what I'm not going to do with my life Mr Lucky,I'm not going

to share my money with a man, I'm not going to cook for men,clean their houses, do their laundry, care take for them when they're sick I'm not going to take responsibility for step-parenting their children or caring for their aging parents. Been there,done that and have concluded what men offer in exchange isn't worth it the work,effort or self-sacrifice.

Well soserious1, that covers what you are not going to do with your life. And leaves unanswered the question of what you are going to do (besides random sex with strangers ).

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

Were that true, we would not seek them out. Yet we do.

 

I am not really sure why men seek out women since men seem to have a great need for numbers and variety then they do commitment and loyatly.

 

Well, I'll give you credit that you acknowledge the statistical likelihood of any given man being a porn user is high, some women just assume (for no reason other than their unstated hopes) that their SO's do not, when statistically the exact opposite is more likely to be true.

 

Of course I acknowledge this. This is why men are so hard to trust and be vunerable with.

 

But here you go with your over-generalization again. "What women wants to get in line for that..." Many women do. Take my wife, she's a much bigger porn hound than am I. Given our lifestyle, though, we both find it boring to an extent... why watch it when we could be doing it?

 

Many men apparently like doing it as much as they like watching it. Which is sad but true. No woman wants to get in line to stand by a man she loves and watch hi drool over other women. Despite your belief.

 

No, I don't. It seems unrealistically controlling and manipulative.

 

ANd it seems unrealistic, controlling and manipulative why a man can't or won't understand why it can hurt a woman.

 

That actual, real world, physical sexual monogamy is necessary for a successful relationship is an artifical social construct hoisted upon us by our forefathers.....

 

Wrong. It's a biological driven urge just as wanting variety is. We have the option for both. That's what makes choosing one way or the other special. We are no more programmed to be with many people then we are to be with one. We are just as much programmed to be monogmous as we are to enjoy vareity of parnters. Because are bodies have the compacity for both physically and mentally. We have certain chemicals that make us enjoy many partners and certain chemical that make us enjoy bonding with one.

 

 

Which is of course all completely ridiculous, but now you come along and think you can add thought crimes to the mix? As if.

 

It's not a matter of thought crimes. It's a matter of self control.

 

Let me ask you a question. Why is monogamy, any kind of monogamy, be it literal, hypothetical, mental, spiritual, whatever... why is it important to you? Why does it matter at all? Please do answer this, as I have some very specific reasons for asking.

 

I could ask you easily why it isn't important to you. I personally believe that anything worth having is worth working for and is worth picking over other options. I do not believe that we can or should "have it all" our way all the time. It is selfish and self indulgent. I want a man that wants to be loyal and monogmous because those are qualtiies I personally respect in a man.

 

 

As a follow-up to my question above, why does the mental fantasies of your SO matter? Why is it important that he be chaste? What does it mean?

 

I use self control everyday. I want a man that is strong and can use self control as well. Not one that caters to his whims. That is why it's important to me. Why are your mental fantasies so important to you that you feel that without them, you are missing out?

 

Pleaes note that I have answered many of your questionsns and when I pose them to you, you ignore them and avoid them .

[The Collector]

No woman wants to get in line to stand by a man she loves and watch hi drool over other women. Despite your belief.

 

Who are you calling a drooler? And sales figures I have already posted show that some 40% of women are quite happy to 'drool' alongside their partners. I know you don't understand this, but all women aren't like you.

 

Next time you claim to not speak for all women, please remember this time when you clearly did.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Many men apparently like doing it as much as they like watching it.

 

That's about the first thing you've said that I agree with.

 

Which is sad but true.

 

Why?

 

No woman wants to get in line to stand by a man she loves and watch hi drool over other women.

 

OK, so there's not really drool involved, but my wife enjoys watching me with other women. Does that count?

 

ANd it seems unrealistic, controlling and manipulative why a man can't or won't understand why it can hurt a woman.

 

If someone's innermost thoughts, that he shares with no other human on the planet and acts on not at all are hurtful for you, then I submit you have psychological problems beyond the scope of this board.

 

Wrong. It's a biological driven urge just as wanting variety is. We have the option for both. That's what makes choosing one way or the other special.

 

Why? If we can have both, why not have it?

 

It's not a matter of thought crimes. It's a matter of self control.

 

The control you require is not possible.

 

I could ask you easily why it isn't important to you.

 

You could, but answering a question with a question is not answering the question. It's unimportant to me because it's meaningless, and unnecessary. I am, at my core, an extreme libertarian. In order to prohibit an action, be it by force of law, or even an agreement amongst partners, there must be a discernable negative associated with the action. Murder, for example, has the downside that someone who in all probability does not wish to be dead, is nonetheless dead. Insisting on monogamy when non-monogamy is much more fun must therefore have a downside associated with it to be a reasonable restriction.

 

Now, with physical sexual monogamy, there often is a downside depending on who the participants in question are, which is why I do not advocate non-monogamy for everyone. Mental monogamy as you have defined it has no downside unless you are enforcing a principal for the sake of a principal.

 

I personally believe that anything worth having is worth working for and is worth picking over other options.

 

Asking for effort solely for the sake of effort is pointless. Good relationships take work, about that there is no doubt, no sense making it harder than it need be. You seem to value sacrifice for no reason. I do not.

 

I do not believe that we can or should "have it all" our way all the time.

 

I do.

 

It is selfish and self indulgent.

 

So what?

 

I want a man that wants to be loyal and monogmous because those are qualtiies I personally respect in a man.

 

Why?

 

Not one that caters to his whims.

 

For whims that have no discernable downside, why not?

 

Why are your mental fantasies so important to you that you feel that without them, you are missing out?

 

Because unless I am causing harm or damage, I see no reason to deny myself things that I want. I see no value in sacrifice for the sake of sacrifice.

[soserious1]

Well soserious1, that covers what you are not going to do with your life. And leaves unanswered the question of what you are going to do (besides random sex with strangers ).

 

Mr. Lucky

 

lol, that's easy, I'm going to do whatever the hell I feel like doing.In short I'll pretend I'm a man.

[morelaugh]

Morelaugh, you can certainly go through life thinking that, from the moment you meet him, your BF or husband will never look at, think about or fantasize about another woman, either in media or real life.

Sure.

And you can go through life thinking that there are no men in this world who believes porn is just a freak show not worth any time looking at it, let alone defending it to death.

 

As a man, I think that's an unrealistic assumption, but that's just my opinion.

Exactly!

That is just your opinion.

You certainly can’t claim to speak for all the men, can you?

My expectation is only unrealistic with men like you, isn’t it?

You don’t claim ALL men are like you, do you?

 

What makes my expectation unrealistic in your eyes, is your own BELIEF that there are no men who feel differently. Which, and I’m sure you will agree, makes actually your belief unrealistic.

 

It's the same that the thought of having sex with someone else is the same as physically having sex with them?

Mr. Lucky

I never said that.

I was trying to make a point that your perception is what counts.

By sleeping with someone else, your wife wouldn't hurt you in any tangible way – still most people would feel hurt (very hurt) by this.

 

I think you underestimate the power of thought.

The thought is a driving force of any action.

 

Widely accepted form of psychotherapy, cognitive therapy is exclusively based on changing the thinking patterns.

 

Even before that, Shakespeare’s Hamlet told us “...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”

[Mr. Lucky]

Sure.

And you can go through life thinking that there are no men in this world who believes porn is just a freak show not worth any time looking at it, let alone defending it to death.

Interesting that your time here has value while my time is wasted posting my thoughts . This isn't about porn, which is a very small part of what we're talking about. Here's what I said:

 

"Morelaugh, you can certainly go through life thinking that, from the moment you meet him, your BF or husband will never look at, think about or fantasize about another woman, either in media or real life."

 

Exactly!

That is just your opinion.

You certainly can’t claim to speak for all the men, can you?

My expectation is only unrealistic with men like you, isn’t it?

You don’t claim ALL men are like you, do you?

And while I don't claim to speak for all men, I certainly am confident in my assertion that a living, breathing man is, in various stages, aware of the other females on the planet besides you. Why are you so threatened by that?

 

Mr. Lucky

[morelaugh]

Interesting that your time here has value while my time is wasted posting my thoughts . This isn't about porn, which is a very small part of what we're talking about.

I re-read the post, and I still have no idea how you’ve come to that conclusion. I neither said nor thought anything like that (must be my english )

I quite enjoy your posts, regardless if I agree with you or not (and you would be surprised to hear that I actually agree with you most of the times).

Besides, if you are wasting your time or not, exclusivelly depends on what YOU want to achieve and is therefore completly subjective.

 

And you are right, porn is a very small part of what we’re talking about. The porn part was just an example.

 

 

And while I don't claim to speak for all men, I certainly am confident in my assertion that a living, breathing man is, in various stages, aware of the other females on the planet besides you. Why are you so threatened by that?

Mr. Lucky

Have you ever been in politics? Public service at least?

Because you’ve just told me exactly the same thing you denied in the first part of your sentence in a very politicly correct way.

 

I’m not going to dissect this sentence (even though I’m tempted to), but I have to ask you what do you mean by ‘aware of other females’.

 

To answer your question technically:

No, I am not threatened at all by the fact that someone is aware of other females.

 

But I will not continue to play this game and I give'll you a serious answer:

 

I used to be threatened by it.

My explanation for it is the one that started this discussion: I think this is the same thing that makes you feel threatened by your wife’s possible infidelity, just a little bit stronger. I tried to explain that in a couple of posts – in short, I think your mind has more power than you are prepared to admit.

 

Please, re-read my posts – more detailed answer is in them.

 

I don’t feel threatened any more.

I dealt with that in my own way – I learnt to be selfish and to love less. There is a price, but everyone seems to be happier.

[Mr. Lucky]

Have you ever been in politics? Public service at least?

Because you’ve just told me exactly the same thing you denied in the first part of your sentence in a very politicly correct way.

 

I’m not going to dissect this sentence (even though I’m tempted to), but I have to ask you what do you mean by ‘aware of other females’.

No morelaugh, no career in public office or service. Although as I watch my carefully collected retirement savings vaporized in the stock and housing market on a daily basis, I do envy their pension and benefit packages.

 

The second half of my statement was obviously my opinion regarding men in general (an admittedly diverse group). And "aware" was designed to be shorthand for the occasionally intrusive presence of thoughts of those women in his fantasies and libido.

I used to be threatened by it.

My explanation for it is the one that started this discussion: I think this is the same thing that makes you feel threatened by your wife’s possible infidelity, just a little bit stronger. I tried to explain that in a couple of posts – in short, I think your mind has more power than you are prepared to admit.

 

Please, re-read my posts – more detailed answer is in them.

 

I don’t feel threatened any more.

I dealt with that in my own way – I learnt to be selfish and to love less. There is a price, but everyone seems to be happier.

Now who is engaging in double speak? That you were threatened by it - and now deal with it in your own way - must mean that you recognize the existence of men's sexual imagination. And without judging you, your decision to "love less" seems to me to be a high price to pay as a coping mechanism. Although I'm certainly willing to admit that my decidedly male perspective (in an unofficial capacity, of course ) affects my point of view...

 

Mr. Lucky

[morelaugh]

Now who is engaging in double speak?

Double speak? No. Not at all.

 

First of all:

‘Aware’ IS NOT a synonym for ‘occasionally intrusive presence of thoughts of other women in a man’s fantasies and libido’. In no-one’s language. I think we agree on that now.

 

Second, I never said men’s sexual imagination doesn’t exist. (And by ‘imagination’ I understand you mean ‘desire for other women’). I said (and I am still saying) - not everyone is the same. My first husband was not into other women at all. It didn’t make him perfect. But men like him do exist.

 

To love less is not a high price at all – it was the best decision of my life and I consider myself lucky to be able to do that. The only price I pay is that I don’t get too excited anymore.

 

But, being able to be selfish and take what you want, when you want and how you want and reject everything else is more a liberation than a price. I’m afraid your male perspective is clouding your vision a bit.

 

And third – you are now criticizing my coping mechanism? Why? This is how I deal with that. What is wrong with that?

Is there only one approved way to deal with your problems?

[soserious1]

Double speak? No. Not at all.

 

First of all:

‘Aware’ IS NOT a synonym for ‘occasionally intrusive presence of thoughts of other women in a man’s fantasies and libido’. In no-one’s language. I think we agree on that now.

 

Second, I never said men’s sexual imagination doesn’t exist. (And by ‘imagination’ I understand you mean ‘desire for other women’). I said (and I am still saying) - not everyone is the same. My first husband was not into other women at all. It didn’t make him perfect. But men like him do exist.

 

To love less is not a high price at all – it was the best decision of my life and I consider myself lucky to be able to do that. The only price I pay is that I don’t get too excited anymore.

 

But, being able to be selfish and take what you want, when you want and how you want and reject everything else is more a liberation than a price. I’m afraid your male perspective is clouding your vision a bit.

 

And third – you are now criticizing my coping mechanism? Why? This is how I deal with that. What is wrong with that?

Is there only one approved way to deal with your problems?

 

Personally I agree with you, loving less means you have more time, more emotional and physical energy to care about and for yourself, more money too.

 

Be prepared for the backlash though, there are a lot of guys walking around

who want wife/mommies and they don't react well when tighter boundaries are set around what you will/will not do for them.

[Mr. Lucky]

First of all:

‘Aware’ IS NOT a synonym for ‘occasionally intrusive presence of thoughts of other women in a man’s fantasies and libido’. In no-one’s language. I think we agree on that now.

You're being unnecessarily glib and difficult. Within the context of what we were discussing, I think you knew exactly what "aware" meant.

But, being able to be selfish and take what you want, when you want and how you want and reject everything else is more a liberation than a price. I’m afraid your male perspective is clouding your vision a bit.

 

And third – you are now criticizing my coping mechanism? Why? This is how I deal with that. What is wrong with that?

Is there only one approved way to deal with your problems?

Dang, woman! If you're this hard to talk to, I understand why he's only your "first" husband. I said I'm not judging you and acknowledged that I was looking at it from my perspective. How is that a critique? You may choose to cope by becoming a nun and still, to me, it would seem a steep price to pay. Sorry for the male POV, it's the only one I have ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[soserious1]

You're being unnecessarily glib and difficult. Within the context of what we were discussing, I think you knew exactly what "aware" meant.

 

Dang, woman! If you're this hard to talk to, I understand why he's only your "first" husband. I said I'm not judging you and acknowledged that I was looking at it from my perspective. How is that a critique? You may choose to cope by becoming a nun and still, to me, it would seem a steep price to pay. Sorry for the male POV, it's the only one I have ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Why would loving a bit less be a "steep price to pay" seems like the only one who gets less is the man but he also gets to go about his business, surfing for porn and openly ogling other women without a word said about it. Why is that a problem?

[morelaugh]

Running out of arguments?

 

You're being unnecessarily glib and difficult. Within the context of what we were discussing, I think you knew exactly what "aware" meant.

I was just being precise – what’s wrong with that?

But now I think maybe you intentionally use those words – to take the weight off the subject and make us who don’t agree sound ridiculous.

 

Dang, woman! If you're this hard to talk to, I understand why he's only your "first" husband

You are obviously not judging me.

 

How is that a critique?

I apologise if I was too harsh, it’s just - when I told you I found a solution and it worked for me, you immediately wanted to show me what is wrong with that. I

’m actually very proud that I found something that works – maybe that’s the reason I lashed out.