The Old Porno Argument!

[morelaugh]

Be prepared for the backlash though, there are a lot of guys walking around

who want wife/mommies and they don't react well when tighter boundaries are set around what you will/will not do for them.

Yeah, you may be right.

My husband is taking it reasonably well though. As you said, there are benefits in it for him too.

 

It’s really funny, but now he claims he’s not interested in other women any more, he swears he’s changed. Go figure...

[Mr. Lucky]

I was just being precise – what’s wrong with that?

But now I think maybe you intentionally use those words – to take the weight off the subject and make us who don’t agree sound ridiculous.

My first reaction is to say that some here don't need any of my help to sound ridiculous . But I will admit to taking some posting shortcuts in the interest of brevity and bandwidth.

You are obviously not judging me.

Touche. My apologies...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Angel]

Witholding the truth is lying. Men go into relationships and don't tell the women about the porn they use & the masterbation. Some WOMEN don't know about this ****.

 

I want a man with VALUES like mine. Not someone that values porn.

[cc123]

hi, i can relate. one morning i went over to my boyfriends house (we had been together over a year at that time) and like you did i told my bf in the very beginning of the relationship that i hated porn and would leave if i ever saw he looked at it. so i walk in on him jacking off to porn, i was shaking i was so upset. why didn't he wait until i was home. and so all day he lied and told me that he heard me open the door so he pulled it up as a joke, which i did not believe bc i was very quite coming in. and then later on i told him to just cut the bs and tell me the truth. and he said he woke up and was so horny for me that he just wanted to watch it to hear the moaning and think about me. he said he pictured it being me the whole time... ya right. so i was like fine w/e but this is your only chance. and one week later i find more... he says he pulled it up because he was horny for me again and then felt bad because he knew i didn't like it and that he didn't even watch it and just exited out..again i dont believe him but whatever. and then the very next day after he promised not to ever do it again. i find it again but he says the same thing that he didnt watch it because it felt wrong since he knew i didnt like it. but he knew i didnt like it from the begining so i dont know why it was ok the first time he did it. so we go away for 4 months in the summer to work and i tell him over and over that i gave him 3 chances already and when we get home i will leave if it happens again. so we get home and a week later i leave to visit my parents, he pinky promises me that he wont ever do it again and blah blah blah. when i get back i find out he looked at it right after he promised me he wouldnt, the very same day!! i was sooooo furious. so then he gets all mad that i bring it but i bring it up because he keeps promising he wont and then i always find it. he says he doesnt know why i dont trust him. then during the next few weeks i find it 2 more times again after him convincing me it wont ever happen again. so now its a total of 7 times he does (that i know about) and 7 times he promises it wont happen again. its been like...2 weeks and it hasnt happened but im just waiting to find it. the last 3 times he did it he told me that he was mad at my for putting a spy thing on the computer to track all the histry so he purposly kept bringing it up before i got over because he knows i will check the computer. why would he do that? if he was mad i check the history then maybe he should have never lied and i wouldnt have to check it. its so hard because i love him but i feel sick and want to throw up at the thought of him getting all turned on by other girls instead of waiting for me to come over. he tells me im so sexy etc but then why does he look at porn. he says when we fight or he gets mad he brings it up but doesnt jack off just so that i see it and get mad, like he tries to get back at me or something. i think thats so immature and mean but i hve reached the point now and he knows its for real this time that if i see it again im out, even after almost 3 years. i gave him 7 chances already to stop and each time he lies about it. i went on vacation and he swore he wouldnt do it. the day i get back home i ask him if he did and he says no no i swear i didn't. and then the next day i found out he did. and i ask him WHY he didn't tell me when i asked and why did he lie and again he said he did it because we fought and he wanted to do something to make me mad because it made him feel better. so if this was the case then why did he have to delete it and try and hide it from me. if it was to make me mad then he should have left it all up and not delete it. he thought i wouldn't find it because it wasn't on the internet like the past it was on limewire but still he said it was to piss me off. i hate feeling like im not hot enough and he NEVER instigates sex with me, i always have to start it and he will tell me no sometimes so i dont get it. i have to force myself to belive he didnt watch it and only brought it up to make me mad but i know thats not true. im sure he was jsut horny and being a guy couldnt wait a few hours for me to come home. sorry this wasn't supposed to be so long but i know how you feel and you should give him one last chance, tell him and be serious and if it happens then leave. maybe he will actually take you seriously and come back to you once he has changed. my bf never takes me seriously when i say i will leave if it happens again because i say that every time, but this time i am prepared to leave and maybe if i do he will finally get it that i will not tolerate his disgusting lies.

[mrsT]

I am tempted to say this is the classic he said/she said.

 

BUT....ladies, porn is more than an issue. It is extremely destructive and dangerous. All porn has violence and furthermore murder inplicit in it.

 

It is what is never spoken or acknowledged. But it is curiosity which leads men deeper and deeper into the mouth of the flytrap, until they are stuck. How many of these men defending porn and their right to lust after other women would love to be able to destroy the power lust and porn has over them but cannot say this? How many of them have lost the women they loved? the relationships that they cherished? All because of the hold these thoughts and pictures have over them. So they justify: they justify and they rationalise. But deep down they are all aware of what it is slowly doing to their hearts, their minds, their souls, their lives.

 

We as women are not helping stuck men by coming to think and speak as they do, but by listening to our own hearts, and defending the truth. Do not let them tempt you into this lose/lose position. Do not take the words of any addict, sexual or otherwise, as truth. All addicts lie. All of them.

 

I was married to a sex addict many years ago. A porn addict. A man unable to have sex with his own wife. I watched him go deeper and deeper into the dark hole he once just stood on the outside of, testing the waters. He was eventually murdered. Porn was found in every room of his house. This is what his family members had to walk in on. Not to mention dealing with the fact that their loved one was beaten to death.

 

It is not a light issue. You must not come to see things his way, unless you want to go down that dark hole yourself, perhaps never to return.

[MichelleS1983]

....and he said he woke up and was so horny for me that he just wanted to watch it to hear the moaning and think about me. he said he pictured it being me the whole time...

LOL. What complete bull.

 

I got a good chuckle out of that ridiculous lie.

 

HOWEVER, just because YOU don't like porn doesn't mean that your boyfriend should have to feel like a freakin' criminal just because he wants a little private time and some visual stimulation. Jesus, you're acting as though the guy is going out on the street and killing small kittens.

 

Whether you like it or not, he's going to continue to watch porn. Unfortunately for him, he's going to have to also continue dealing with your totally irrational ranting and raving about it as though you're his mother and he's a 10 year old boy who got caught with his pants down. After a while, he's going to resent the HELL out of you for sucking him dry with your ridiculous demands that he stop doing something he's probably done for the last umpteen years and was doing LONG before he met you.

 

Don't be surprised if eventually he has zero sexual interest in you because you're acting like a shrew.

[Jersey Shortie]

It always amazes the lack of compassion and sensitivity women receive on this topic when they discuss it with men.

 

 

HOWEVER, just because YOU don't like porn doesn't mean that your boyfriend should have to feel like a freakin' criminal just because he wants a little private time and some visual stimulation. Jesus, you're acting as though the guy is going out on the street and killing small kittens.

 

Actually, that's how you are acting. She is being honest about how the situation makes her feel. She said nothing close to what you are tryin to suggest. Going right down to the bone of the matter, it makes her loose a certain amount of faith, trust and vulneriblity with her parnter. Porn can easily make some women insecure. I realize men don't have the same reaction to porn. Because porn isn't about how men are lacking or what women actually wished them to be and aren't or women aren't sneeking off in the night choosing porn over their partner.

 

Unfortunately for him, he's going to have to also continue dealing with your totally irrational ranting and raving about it as though you're his mother and he's a 10 year old boy who got caught with his pants down.

 

Irrational ranting and raving? I think the person talking about it being akin to killing kittens is more ranting and raving then anyone else here. And whether you want to admit it or not, it's not irrational at all for a woman to feel betrayed and loose trust in her partner in relation to his porn use.

 

After a while, he's going to resent the HELL out of you for sucking him dry with your ridiculous demands that he stop doing something he's probably done for the last umpteen years and was doing LONG before he met you.

 

That could very well be true. But it sounds to me that she already resents the HELL out of him for starting to suck her dry emotionaly with his inability to use self control and committ and his ability to disrespect her with his lies and the lies he is selling her in reference to the values he made to her. But I am sure you didn't think about that. You only thought about how his emotional state would turn out. You didn't consider how hers were.

 

Don't be surprised if eventually he has zero sexual interest in you because you're acting like a shrew.

 

Well I hope he isn't surprised when she has zero sexual interest in him because he is acting selfish and self centered and is doing the exact things to turn her off and away. Again, you fail to consider how she can and does feel on this topic and have come into this thread acting her for her feelings while you seem to think the only one of value who deserves to have his feelings considered, above that of her, is her partner.

 

Again, the lack of compassion men seem to have for real women when it comes to their porn is unbelievable. It really just stuns me and makes me shake my head and makes me wonder if men respect women at all.

[soserious1]

LOL. What complete bull.

 

I got a good chuckle out of that ridiculous lie.

 

HOWEVER, just because YOU don't like porn doesn't mean that your boyfriend should have to feel like a freakin' criminal just because he wants a little private time and some visual stimulation. Jesus, you're acting as though the guy is going out on the street and killing small kittens.

 

Whether you like it or not, he's going to continue to watch porn. Unfortunately for him, he's going to have to also continue dealing with your totally irrational ranting and raving about it as though you're his mother and he's a 10 year old boy who got caught with his pants down. After a while, he's going to resent the HELL out of you for sucking him dry with your ridiculous demands that he stop doing something he's probably done for the last umpteen years and was doing LONG before he met you.

 

Don't be surprised if eventually he has zero sexual interest in you because you're acting like a shrew.

 

Some of us don't "rant and rave" about the issue, we've come to understand that given a choice between being sexual with us and self-pleasuring with porn that a lot of men would rather have the porn.

 

As to men's sexual interest in their partners, some of us have also come to understand that some men feel like they're doing us some sort of favor when they decide to finish off a porn session with us instead of using their hands.. guess what? some of us say thanks but no thanks. A guy can watch whatever he'd like without a word spoken by me but I'll be darned if I'll have sex with somebody acting like he's doing me some sort of favor, he can just head straight back to his porn.

[Mr. Lucky]

I was married to a sex addict many years ago. A porn addict. A man unable to have sex with his own wife. I watched him go deeper and deeper into the dark hole he once just stood on the outside of, testing the waters. He was eventually murdered. Porn was found in every room of his house. This is what his family members had to walk in on. Not to mention dealing with the fact that their loved one was beaten to death.

 

It is not a light issue. You must not come to see things his way, unless you want to go down that dark hole yourself, perhaps never to return.

While the circumstances of your marriage sound difficult at best - dealing with any addiction is tough - they're not universal. People enjoying a glass of wine are not all destined to be alcoholics...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

Wine doesn't refer to women as four letter words, incorporates 18 year old girls, twins, implants, asians, brunettes, red heads, girls doing crazy impossible acts, crazy impossible standards, millions upon millions of images that use women interchangable...gee I wonder why porn is so hard for some women to deal with and wine isn't.

 

Get a clue.

[Mr. Lucky]

Wine doesn't refer to women as four letter words, incorporates 18 year old girls, twins, implants, asians, brunettes, red heads, girls doing crazy impossible acts, crazy impossible standards, millions upon millions of images that use women interchangable...gee I wonder why porn is so hard for some women to deal with and wine isn't.

 

Get a clue.

Well Jersey, I was using an analogy. And perhaps in your self-serving and dogmatic interpretation is a "clue" as to why few people even bother to respond to your repetitive posts. You need to expand your repertoire...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

Those who project, reflect Mr.Lucky. Self-serving and dogmatic are terms that are easy to throw around on both sides of this issue. My opinions on porn are not aultristic. Either are the marjoity of men's. Yours included.

 

I understand what you think the comparison is. My point is that it's not really all that fair of a comparison considering the two subject matters. Do men really not understand why a vice in porn has the possiblity to be more harmful then a vice in wine? Come on.

[rainfall]

 

Don't be surprised if eventually he has zero sexual interest in you because you're acting like a shrew.

 

 

I think the reason men who watch porn lose interest in their SO is because of the porn. They no longer have intrest in normal women and instead only can be turned on by fake sluts on screen or in magazines.

[Mr. Lucky]

I understand what you think the comparison is. My point is that it's not really all that fair of a comparison considering the two subject matters. Do men really not understand why a vice in porn has the possiblity to be more harmful then a vice in wine? Come on.

 

a·nal·o·gy

 

 

NOUN: pl. a·nal·o·gies

1. 1. 
      
   2. Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar.
      
   3. A comparison based on such similarity. See Synonyms at likeness.
      

See how it works? Understand the "otherwise dissimilar" part? I wasn't comparing wine to porn but rather the relationship between use and addiction.

 

Does this simple statement meet with your approval?

 

"Not everyone that looks at porn becomes a sex addict"

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

I wasn't comparing wine to porn but rather the relationship between use and addiction.

 

Then be fair and compare the difference why something like porn, it's use abuse and depictions of women, has the possiblity to be more harmful and hurtful then the use of wine.

[Mr. Lucky]

Then be fair and compare the difference why something like porn, it's use abuse and depictions of women, has the possiblity to be more harmful and hurtful then the use of wine.

Again, I don't think your statement is true. Within the context of what both partners find amenable, neither wine nor porn has to be hurtful. However, I will agree that, much like an alcoholic abuses wine, the abuse of porn in a relationship is harmful. It's up to the participants...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

Again, I don't think your statement is true. Within the context of what both partners find amenable, neither wine nor porn has to be hurtful. However, I will agree that, much like an alcoholic abuses wine, the abuse of porn in a relationship is harmful. It's up to the participants...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Yes it's up to the participants and we often know which way men choose in favor of. And it isn't their relationships.

 

You again fail to acknowledge the very real fact that porn is sexual in nature and adds a very sensitive element that something like wine or other "vices" just can't. The comparison is meant to downplay the importance and effect porn has on people's lives. ANd we certainly see 10 hundred more times women struggling with issues of porn in their men's life then wine.

[Mr. Lucky]

You again fail to acknowledge the very real fact that porn is sexual in nature and adds a very sensitive element that something like wine or other "vices" just can't.

So when I posted this:

However, I will agree that, much like an alcoholic abuses wine, the abuse of porn in a relationship is harmful.

it didn't qualify as an acknowledgement ??? Your porno-centric view of the world blinds you to everything else. You think that porn is a more serious problem than alcoholism?

 

Mr. Lucky

[annieo]

I think the reason men who watch porn lose interest in their SO is because of the porn. They no longer have interest in normal women and instead only can be turned on by fake sluts on screen or in magazines.

 

I think that this makes total sense, especially if a man is masturbating to porn on a regular basis (daily, every day or two). It might be partly because they condition themselves to respond sexually to images of women (as opposed to an actual woman).

And let's face it, most guys past their mid-twenties aren't going to keep getting it up repeatedly in a 24 hour period. If they've taken care of their sexual needs via masturbation/porn, they aren't going to be feeling the need with their partner.

[Jersey Shortie]

it didn't qualify as an acknowledgement ??? Your porno-centric view of the world blinds you to everything else. You think that porn is a more serious problem than alcoholism?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Nope I don't.What I do think that in this topic we are talking about porn's effect, not alcholism. I think that more women post about their SO's porn use then their drinking. And I think there is something intrisically sensitive to women about porn because of the nature of what porn is.

[Green]

Jersie shortie how about you strip infront of a web cam for me.... now thats a porno arguement I'm up for

[Jersey Shortie]

KMT, I think I already saw you on a webcam today, come to think of it. I was looking at the monkies at the San Diego zoo. You were quite entertaining but I think you were scaring the children.

[Mr. Lucky]

I think that this makes total sense, especially if a man is masturbating to porn on a regular basis (daily, every day or two). It might be partly because they condition themselves to respond sexually to images of women (as opposed to an actual woman).

While any man in a marriage or committed relationship that is whacking it daily to porn is foolishly misguided, don't you think his actions are a response to something? That kind of detour doesn't happen in a vacuum...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

Mr. Lucky, from what I hear from men, most of them have been masturbating to porn since they were 13. Way too young and immature to actually process what was going on between a man and woman in porn. I think that porn has greatly influenced men, their habits and their ideas of women.

 

What actually do you think his actions are a response to? If most men have been masturbating to porn at an age when there were still pretty immature about women and men themselves, don't you think that is going to have a negative effect on little boys? I certainly think so. And little boys grow up to be men, for better or for worse.

[Trojan John]

You two need to get a room already.