The Old Porno Argument!

[Mr. Lucky]

Mr. Lucky, from what I hear from men, most of them have been masturbating to porn since they were 13. Way too young and immature to actually process what was going on between a man and woman in porn. I think that porn has greatly influenced men, their habits and their ideas of women.

Your statement is is partially true, except that most of us start before 13 . And it doesn't have to be porn as, at that age, even a mildly suggestive image or daydream will do.

What actually do you think his actions are a response to?

Well, I know you don't have much regard for us as a gender Jersey, but I'd think the answer is obvious. Without placing blame, that course of action results from the loss of connection with your partner. No rational man - or woman - turns primarily to masturbation when they have a healthy sexual relationship...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

Your statement is is partially true, except that most of us start before 13 . And it doesn't have to be porn as, at that age, even a mildly suggestive image or daydream will do.

 

13 or younger, a suggestive image or daydream is nothing compared to what a 13 or younger boy is going to see in porn. Unless you think 13 year old boys are picturing exactly what is going on in porn. And I would think that to be quite ridiculous to think they are.

 

Well, I know you don't have much regard for us as a gender Jersey, but I'd think the answer is obvious.

Mr. Lucky

 

You make comments about my regard or what you think to be lack of regard for the male gender but what about what appears to be men's general lack of regard for the female one Mr. Lucky? Where porn doesn't offer much respect to women yet men seem to want respect from women. Yes, lets keep using women for sex, protraying them in submissive postions, call them degrading names and use them for sex and their bodies and them complain that this hurts women or feel hurt ourselves for the lack of regard women offer men. That is what I never understand. Men want respect. I understand that. And they don't like it when they are given none. Yet most men don't reat women with respect.

 

 

Without placing blame, that course of action results from the loss of connection with your partner. No rational man - or woman - turns primarily to masturbation when they have a healthy sexual relationship...

 

 

Many men turn to porn even when their partner is doing everything they can to have a connection with them. Maybe alot of women see this and give up. What's the point if he is going to turn to porn once a week, once a month, once a year even? There is no point if no matter what you do, he still needs to view porn on some level. I think men shoot themselves in the foot to be honest. They want more wild, adventerous partners and more sex. Yet they don't do the things that would really garner this. Instead they inhibit women with unattainable ideals of perfect in porn in looks and acts and expect wome nto want to *try* to be 1/10th of what he really wants. Sorry. Not the way to motivate a woman. Perhpas if men were more engaged in their partners then they were their porn, more men would have better sex lives. Instead of making their partners feel second rate, or making their partners sit by their side while they masturbate to 18 year olds and then want their partner to spread their legs for him to finish the job.

[Mr. Lucky]

Yet most men don't treat women with respect.

You're not looking for respect. What you want is to be idealized, in an unrealistic, romantic fairy tale kind of way. You require a partner for whom you're the be all and end all in his mind (conscious AND sub-conscious), leaving no room for even a passing thought of another woman, purposeful or unintentioned, real or imaginary. While I'm sure you can find a man that would put on that act, I can't help but wonder how ultimately satisfying that would be ?

 

What's the point if he is going to turn to porn once a week, once a month, once a year even?

You've posted before that any man that fantasizes about another woman is cheating on his partner. Given that standard, I hope you have a back-up plan for staying warm at night...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

You're not looking for respect. What you want is to be idealized, in an unrealistic, romantic fairy tale kind of way. You require a partner for whom you're the be all and end all in his mind (conscious AND sub-conscious), leaving no room for even a passing thought of another woman, purposeful or unintentioned, real or imaginary. While I'm sure you can find a man that would put on that act, I can't help but wonder how ultimately satisfying that would be ?

 

I don't require a partner that will make me his be all and end all. I require respect and self control. Something I don't really see much in many men. I'm sorry it's unrealistic to expect these things from men. And I'm sorry it's unrealistic to question how men really feel about women when they can watch them degraded in a movie.

 

 

You've posted before that any man that fantasizes about another woman is cheating on his partner. Given that standard, I hope you have a back-up plan for staying warm at night...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

A puppy might do the trick.

 

You don't really know what my standards are Mr. Lucky. I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of men that you don't think they can accomplish these things.

[Mr. Lucky]

A puppy might do the trick.

Yes, a puppy might. Although they tend to be messy and easily distracted in the same way we men are .

I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of men that you don't think they can accomplish these things.

Less a low opinion and more a realistic assesment of what's important in a relationship. And trying to control my partner's thoughts and fantasies definitely isn't one of them...

 

Mr. Lucky

[soserious1]

Mr Lucky,

 

Why do men get so upset when women refuse to "finish them off" after a porn viewing session?

 

Why is it not okay to tell a guy that what he watches is fine but that if he's aroused by porn that his resultant erection isn't your problem and that you'd prefer he take care of it himself?

[soserious1]

You're not looking for respect. What you want is to be idealized, in an unrealistic, romantic fairy tale kind of way. You require a partner for whom you're the be all and end all in his mind (conscious AND sub-conscious), leaving no room for even a passing thought of another woman, purposeful or unintentioned, real or imaginary. While I'm sure you can find a man that would put on that act, I can't help but wonder how ultimately satisfying that would be ?

 

 

You've posted before that any man that fantasizes about another woman is cheating on his partner. Given that standard, I hope you have a back-up plan for staying warm at night...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

 

Actually Mr Lucky,aside from a few minutes of occasional pleasure, I don't feel that having a man in my life is worth all the tradeoff's. I want to stay warm? a heated mattress pad does a better job, doesn't snore or fart and I can turn it on or off at my leisure, it also costs only pennies a day to run,far less than my ex used to cost me.

[soserious1]

So if he was wanting sex with you all the time, then would you mind if he wanted to watch porn a lot too?

 

I think you are invading his privacy. Does he tell you what books you are allowed to read, what movies he finds acceptable? Why is it your place to be looking on his laptop, a grown adult person?

 

You stated right from the start that you think it is degrading to women, and then assume no woman can want to have sex like that, yet i have known many women who acted just like pron stars. Now, which is it, are you mad about the porn or that he doesn't want sex with you enough. You haven't proven that one is connected with the other.

 

Again i ask, if he gave you all the sex you wanted, would you still be upset about the porn? Sounds o me like you have made a moral judgement on porn and you expect him to live by your moral code, even to the tune of invading his private time and checking up on what he's doing.

 

I would be very offended if my girlfriend started checking my laptop to see what i am doing, it's not her place and not her right to invade my privacy like that, and the same goes for me where she is concerned.

 

Actually all I ask is that if a man's been looking at porn and he's aroused,wanting relief for his erection that he either get the woman who aroused him to finish him off or do the job himself. I don't want to be expected to service him on such occasions.. dance with the one who brung ya... if your office assistant got you hot..get her to help you out,if your porn viewing got you all horned up.. take care of your erection on your own please and don't trouble me with it.

[soserious1]

No problem there. What i have a problem with is the OP saying 'don't do it in front of me", then complaining if he does it while she's in the shower. Then, she checks his laptop? She gave herself away in the original post when she interjected her moral feelings about porn, and that made me feel like this was her trying to force her moral codes on him. This is a grown man, no one should be going behind him checking his laptop and telling him what movies he should watch. In the shower is not in front of him. Him staying at home while sick and watching porn is not in front of her.

 

I can watch porn and get myself off two or three times during the day, and then see my girlfriend later and have sex a couple more times. My balls would be sore, but I do it often. She has no evidence that the porn has anything to do with him and her not having sex enough, and when she interjected her moral thoughts on it, that put up a red flag for me.

 

A lot of people feel that viewing porn and self-pleasuring are activities that are best reserved for private alone time.. having a guy frantically closing internet browser windows when you enter the room is ackward and weird feeling.Staying home alone to view porn is fine, eagerly dashing to the computer the mili second your wife/ SO leaves the room is just rude.

 

As to your "sore balls" and the sacrifices you make in order to service your g/friend, if I were her I'd tell you that you needdn't trouble yourself being so noble and heroic on my account, that you should just stay home and wack off to porn instead.

[Jersey Shortie]

Yes, a puppy might. Although they tend to be messy and easily distracted in the same way we men are .

 

Puppies are innocent, furry and have brians the size of an apple. What's men's excuse?

 

 

 

Less a low opinion and more a realistic assesment of what's important in a relationship. And trying to control my partner's thoughts and fantasies definitely isn't one of them...

 

Mr. Lucky

I already have learned long ago that expecting men to be faithful, loving, considerate and respectful of their female partners is a long shot. Too many men are co-dependent on their porn and that's the way they like it because men today hold just as much value to their porn as they do their real woman. Real men today are severely lacking in how to really know, love, and respect real women.

[Alma Mobley]

AAAHHHH!

 

I have been away from LS for months, and I come back to find, well, the same arguments about porn, and mainly by the same people.

 

I think this issue is basically unsolvable. Some women (and men) are okay with porn to some degree, and others are not. Others see it as natural, and others see it as a fundamental betrayal.

 

And the arguments will go round and round and round.

 

I know some of the gals won't like this, but they need to let it go. These women who are so upset by porn -- do they ever masturbate? Do they use sex toys for masturbation? Do they read romance novels? Do they ever look at porn themselves?

 

If so, then they are hypocrites.

 

I used to be one of those gals upset about porn. And to some degree, deep down, I guess I don't like it. But I use it too from time to time as a mastubatory aide, nothing more. Once I took a peek at my partner's porn, just to see what he was looking at -- and, well, it was pretty standard. Mostly I didn't want to know, but I just wanted to see if there was any kink in there. There wasn't, lol.

 

The stuff I look at is probably a bit kinkier than his, so I never talked to him about it. One day we got in this HUGE fight (unrelated to porn) but lead to an honest conversation. I don't even remember how porn came up, but I admitted that I did watch it, and what I like, and it lead to a whole great sex session. It really turned him on.

 

Basically, my partner knows I love sex, and that, yes, I sometimes look at porn (though I like the homemade type -- I like the woman to enjoy it -- or gay porn!) I tried to drag something out of him, and he.. tried...but I was a bit more on the kinkier side than him!

 

The porn I watch has nothing to do with what I want in real life, not at all. It's a visual aid. I know that my partner would rather have sex with me than look at porn. He's actually more concerned about me getting a rabbit vibrator than porn. I think that kind of boils it all down eh?

 

Women are more concerned about porn while their men worry about better sex toys!

 

I think this debate is hard because some women will always feel that any looking at porn means it's betrayal, no matter what. That the man prefers the porn girls to them, and they have to measure up to those girls or bow out altogether.

 

I know my partner looks at those girls, but I don't think he prefers them to me. I don't prefer the men or women I look at either. No one person can be all things to one person at any given time, and that includes sex.

 

If my partner started looking at porn in place of having sex with me? Then I would leave him.

[soserious1]

AAAHHHH!

 

 

If my partner started looking at porn in place of having sex with me? Then I would leave him.

 

 

I did... now I get to pay him alimony for the rest of his life.

 

I'm sitting here now with a demand letter from his lawyer and a stack of receipts my soon to be ex used every single dollar on my flexi medical account. I'm told that I am to submit these receipts and turn over the proceeds of the reimbursement check or I can expect to be hauled into court.

 

I had big dental work scheduled,needed dental work...he's got designer RX sunglasses

[Jersey Shortie]

I know some of the gals won't like this, but they need to let it go

 

Why do some gals need to let it go? Why can't the men let it go and live without porn? I think it's hyporcritical to say that women should be the one to let it go but that men get a free pass and have no responsibility. Is porn that much of what men are made about and really that important? When suggestions are made that these gals are the one that need to let it go and men are not, there is something wrong and hpyocritical in that.

 

Sorry. I think you aren't looking at it logically if you don't think your man is somewhat influenced by porn and that he is handling it 100% correctly. And I think men are direspecting their wifes/gfs all the time when they view porn. We always say that porn is okay as long as a man isn't picking it over his wife or girlfriend. But everytime a man views porn, regardless of his wife or girlfriend wanting sex or being available for sex, he is picking porn over his SO. I think we are lying to ourselves to claim otherwise.

[Mr. Lucky]

But everytime a man views porn, regardless of his wife or girlfriend wanting sex or being available for sex, he is picking porn over his SO. I think we are lying to ourselves to claim otherwise.

So a man or woman physically separated from their spouse - say one of our soldiers serving in Iraq or Afganistan - should abstain from any sexually related material while deployed? Other than cold showers (hard to come by in the desert), what advice would you give them?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Ruby Slippers]

^ Whatever happened to masturbating to your own thoughts? How about erotic letters and pictures of yourself via mail? My first love went off to basic training, and he thought my letters during this time were so hot he asked if I would mind if his friends without girlfriends read some of the milder ones, just to keep their spirits up. (I had no problem with it, and when I went to visit him at the end of basic training, those friends gave me a very warm reception. lol)

 

I am reading a good book right now that talks about how so many people have completely departed from good old-fashioned delaying of gratification, and why this is often a detriment. Many times in the past when a boyfriend and I had to be away from each other for a few days (or even a week), we would mutually decide not to masturbate at all, so it would be that much more explosive once we were back together again. And of course it always was! Both of us were climbing the walls after a couple of days, but then once we were back together again, it was a huge love/bonk fest.

[Mr. Lucky]

Whatever happened to masturbating to your own thoughts? How about erotic letters and pictures of yourself via mail?

Perhaps I lack imagination Ruby, but I never was able to "get the job done" using only my own thoughts. I guess I'm a visual guy but just a mental image doesn't work for me.

Many times in the past when a boyfriend and I had to be away from each other for a few days (or even a week), we would mutually decide not to masturbate at all, so it would be that much more explosive once we were back together again. And of course it always was! Both of us were climbing the walls after a couple of days, but then once we were back together again, it was a huge love/bonk fest.

I agree that "deprivation therapy" is fun for a few days or weeks, but for months and months? Most men (and women) would be climbing more than just the walls !!! Regardless, I'm glad those solutions work for you. That they don't work for others doesn't make - as I've tried to explain to Jersey - your choices right and their's wrong...

 

Mr. Lucky

[soserious1]

Perhaps I lack imagination Ruby, but I never was able to "get the job done" using only my own thoughts. I guess I'm a visual guy but just a mental image doesn't work for me.

 

I agree that "deprivation therapy" is fun for a few days or weeks, but for months and months? Most men (and women) would be climbing more than just the walls !!! Regardless, I'm glad those solutions work for you. That they don't work for others doesn't make - as I've tried to explain to Jersey - your choices right and their's wrong...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Please. when I climbed the walls in frustration about my sexless marriage I was told to "settle down and act my age instead of being a disgusting old pig" that his lusting for 20 yr olds was natural and normal and that his being repulsed by me was entirely natural and normal too because men are so "visual"

[Mr. Lucky]

Sorry. I think you aren't looking at it logically if you don't think your man is somewhat influenced by porn and that he is handling it 100% correctly.

Interesting how you seem to feel that you know more about her relationship and partner than she does. Those women that post here and disagree with you don't seem to be included in the "real" women you're always talking about.

Puppies are innocent, furry and have brians the size of an apple. What's men's excuse?

Well, in some cases, the man's excuse would be that he's in a relationship with a woman whose feminized and politicized sexual agenda is so rigid and controlling that it includes judgement based on his fantasy and thought content. If the shoe fits....

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

Interesting how you seem to feel that you know more about her relationship and partner than she does. Those women that post here and disagree with you don't seem to be included in the "real" women you're always talking about.

 

 

I never claimed to know more about her relationship then she did. I give my comments and thoughts based on my experiences like everyone else here. I don't think men handle porn as logically as they like to think they do. Porn is not 100% logical or not driven by some kind of feeling and emotion. Some disagree with me, some agree. I know you don't like to acknowledge that ones that agree with me because you love porn yourself. Most men do. And that is why I struggle with having trust and faith in men. hard to trust a gender that as soon as you are unable to provide them with something or have your back turned are seeking out their needs vicariously through other women that meet a very limited ideal about female beauty that most women just don't live up to. Hard to trust and have faith in men when we know they wished women to be something they just aren't. men want to be accepted for who they are but they don't accept us for who we are. And they sent up such an unrealistic standard of beauty that leaves alot of women at a lose to meet it.

 

 

Well, in some cases, the man's excuse would be that he's in a relationship with a woman whose feminized and politicized sexual agenda is so rigid and controlling that it includes judgement based on his fantasy and thought content. If the shoe fits....

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I am sure that women can be more sexually rigid then men. We are fed so many mixed message. We are suppose to be sexy and beautiful 24/7 but we aren't suppose to be sluts. If we aren't sexy enough our men's attention goes somewhere else where she is sexy enough. We can never win.

 

We don't have the sexual freedom that men have, even today we still aren't there yet. So yes, I am sure women hinder themselves. But men hinder us as well. If you really want us to be sexual and engaging and excited, putting us up against a standard of 18 year olds with implants doing crazy things isn't the way to do it. It's not the environment that makes us feel sexy, inspired and safe to explore that side of us with our man. But men seem to wish that it was. If you really want us to be more sexualized and free to explore that side of us, why don't men try doing the things that will actually produce those results?

 

I struggle between wanting to do wild fun things somethings and being thought of as *insert bad name here* because of it. It's hard to feel safe and secure enough to explore those things with a man. Especially when you are put up to a standard of 18 year old girls with perfect bodies.

 

If we seem too politiced and feministic....I think it's because women don't want to be taken advantage of or used. And too often we are when it comes to sex.

[CaliMan]

Without reading the entire post, I think the crux of the issue is that men naturally are not designed to be monogamous. We have been programmed by evolution to mate with as many as possible. Men try to fight the urges but you are up against millions of years of evolution to get to where we are today in a modern society which only accept monogamy.

[Alma Mobley]

I did... now I get to pay him alimony for the rest of his life.

 

I'm sitting here now with a demand letter from his lawyer and a stack of receipts my soon to be ex used every single dollar on my flexi medical account. I'm told that I am to submit these receipts and turn over the proceeds of the reimbursement check or I can expect to be hauled into court.

 

I had big dental work scheduled,needed dental work...he's got designer RX sunglasses

 

Your situation is different and has nothing to do with porn. Also, you need a very good lawyer.

[Alma Mobley]

You snipped me -- I said gals need to let it go, especially if they read romance novels, read erotic literature, etc. (Can't remember exact wording.)

 

I give no man no pass on anything -- I'm a feminist, after all, even though in these times we feminists get a bad wrap.

 

I think you really need to stop complaining and lecturing about porn as though it is strictly a one gender thing. It is not. Women, lesbian women, and gay men look at porn. It's normal for humans to be aroused at depictions of sex. It's even scrawled on cave walls from thousands of years ago. You act as though you have been personally harmed by the industry -- have you? If so, I understand, but to sit on your podium and pronounce us all as degenerates is bit much.

 

"Logic" has nothing to do with this -- this is a "problem" fueled by emotions, not logic.

 

 

Why do some gals need to let it go? Why can't the men let it go and live without porn? I think it's hyporcritical to say that women should be the one to let it go but that men get a free pass and have no responsibility. Is porn that much of what men are made about and really that important? When suggestions are made that these gals are the one that need to let it go and men are not, there is something wrong and hpyocritical in that.

 

Sorry. I think you aren't looking at it logically if you don't think your man is somewhat influenced by porn and that he is handling it 100% correctly. And I think men are direspecting their wifes/gfs all the time when they view porn. We always say that porn is okay as long as a man isn't picking it over his wife or girlfriend. But everytime a man views porn, regardless of his wife or girlfriend wanting sex or being available for sex, he is picking porn over his SO. I think we are lying to ourselves to claim otherwise.

[Alma Mobley]

Oh -- and guys also need to stop that "Mother Nature/God" made me do it! excuse. Human sexuality is very complex, and I am tired of that canard as well!

[Jersey Shortie]

Without reading the entire post, I think the crux of the issue is that men naturally are not designed to be monogamous. We have been programmed by evolution to mate with as many as possible. Men try to fight the urges but you are up against millions of years of evolution to get to where we are today in a modern society which only accept monogamy

 

That's not factual. If you want to bring science into it, men and women are both "progammed" for monogomy and wanting many different parterns. We have hormones that trigger both. That's why it's a choice. The issue isn't that one chooses one over the other. I have no issue with a man or woman choosing to have many different partners if they are not committed to anyone. The issue is when people want both at the same time. And I often find that men want their partners to be monogmous, while want to make justifications for excusing the desire for many partners themselves. What some men forget is that women desire different partners too. It's just as exciting for women as it is for men. And we are all programmed to either want many partners or just one. Not one over the other. Modern society is more equal to women then previous earlier societies. Mondern society isn't telling women they must be the only monogomous ones anymore.

 

-- I said gals need to let it go, especially if they read romance novels, read erotic literature, etc. (Can't remember exact wording.)

 

I realize what you said. You said girls need to let it go. What I don't understand is why you don't offer that advice to men with porn. You ignored that question. If you apply the "girls need to let it go"..why can't you apply that to men and how they need to let go of their porn? Makes sense to me.

 

 

If so, I understand, but to sit on your podium and pronounce us all as degenerates is bit much.

 

Where did I do that?

 

It's normal for humans to be aroused at depictions of sex. It's even scrawled on cave walls from thousands of years ago.

 

I never said it wasn't normal for humans to be aroused by depictions of sex. And the cave drawings of yesterday are nothing like the porn depictions of women and men today.

 

 

You act as though you have been personally harmed by the industry -- have you?

 

Yeap. I think porn has effected my personal relationships with men profoundly. I think men have effected their relationships with women profoundly because of their porn use and the misgonistic overtones most porn has. I think men and women have done more harm to their relationships because of porn then help. I think we have generations of men that have been brought up on an ideal and perception of women that is unreal, cold, and misgonistic. So yes, I think I have been personally harmed by the industry. I think most women, daughters, girlfriends, wives have been as well.

 

 

"Logic" has nothing to do with this -- this is a "problem" fueled by emotions, not logic.

 

Ummm yeah logic does have to do with this. When discussing the issue. But I would agree that this is a problem fueled by emotions for both men and women.

[Mr. Lucky]

I know you don't like to acknowledge that ones that agree with me because you love porn yourself.

You know Jersey, if I was this porn "lover" and advocate that you try to make me out to be, I'd be telling you that you should use porn with your BF - something I've never said. I'm a choice advocate, as in each person should choose what constitutes appropriate behaviour for themselves and (assuming agreement) their partner. I don't judge you for not being interested in sexually explicit material, but that doesn't seem to stop you from judging me - and others - that choose differently than you. To Me, that's the real issue here...

 

Mr. Lucky