When the Married Person Separates from Their Spouse

[wildsoul]

Current news:

My xMM said he told his wife he is moving out.

He is looking at rental units today.

He told me that he expects to find something within a month or less.

He wants to know if I'll get back together with him after he's moved out so that we can have a fresh start, out in the open, with his intention being a long term committed R with me.

 

I'm just starting to collect and organize my thoughts.

 

Old news:

When I broke up with him (end of July) it was because he had started his separation process in April by renting a room in someone else's home. But I was getting the intuition that his W saw it as a very temporary "needing space" kind of arrangement. Then when she lost her job (economic reality in her industry) he said that he couldn't push for more separation. That process halted, and I was forced to break up with him.

 

I told him that I would only date him if he was truly separated, it was established with her and everyone else in his life that he was dating again. We had to be out in the open.

 

Previously, he told me that there was no way he could make his move now. I took this as my answer: if he really wanted to be divorced, and really wanted to be with me, he'd do it. So I've been analysing everything that happened, posting here, figuring out what mistakes I made, what I'd do differently with someone else (or with him if we got back together in the future.) I'm still sorting it all out.

 

BTW, he said he decided to move now for a few reasons:

1. He realized that waiting for the "perfect time" financially or for her to also want the D is never gonna' happen.
   
2. That giving her the illusion that he is still in the marriage, while emotionally being done, is just enabling the stuckness.
   
3. That he wants to take action on recreating his life and being happier now, not delaying it further.
   
4. And yes, it's also because of me (not solely.) He said that when I "pulled the trigger," it forced his decision to act sooner. He says he was going to wait until after the first of next year, but then losing me was unbearable. He wants to separate now, before the holidays, so he can be with me proper.
   

I'm cautious right now. He's got to show me through his actions. But I'm not sure what my requirements are. Under what terms will I take him back?

 

What are your thoughts?

I know you all have different boundaries from "when the divorce ink is dry," to various points in the process. I know some of you have had your MP's go as far as moving in with you and then still going back to their spouse.

 

I need some ideas for where you would put boundaries in, so I can decide on my own. Thanks!

[whichwayisup]

Isn't this the same guy who was threatening you, harassing you and scared you???

 

Tell him the only way you will date him is when his divorce is final. Separation means nothing.

 

He sounds real good at telling you what he "will" do, but unless that's actually followed up with actions, the circle game starts again for you. He says one thing but does another.

 

If you want a real shot at an honest and open relationship with him, then do it the right way. IF he loves you, he WILL divorce and do it quickly because he doesn't want to hurt his wife, prolong her pain and keep you waiting.

 

Counselling can help, for him. This guy is a liar, and has done some terrible things, saying I'm sorry isn't good enough - He needs to learn HOW to function normally and honestly which is why counselling is a place to start.

 

If you stay the OW, keep intouch with him while he's divorcing or whatever he says he's gonna do, he won't do it. He doesn't need you by his side to do this. Let his marriage end, let him handle it and you focus on you and your life.

[wildsoul]

Isn't this the same guy who was threatening you, harassing you and scared you???

 

<snip>

 

If you want a real shot at an honest and open relationship with him, then do it the right way. IF he loves you, he WILL divorce and do it quickly because he doesn't want to hurt his wife, prolong her pain and keep you waiting.

To clarify, he didn't threaten to harm me. He did show me side of him during the breakup process that I don't like. He said some very mean and hurtful things about replacing me. And that disasterous night when he came over (I wasn't expecting him, because we had a miscommunication in IM) and he called me a bitch, etc. I haven't forgotten these things. But do keep in mind that he treated me very well for the 6 months I've known him. I *might* cut him some slack for having an emotional melt down, provided it doesn't continue. God knows, I've had a melt down or two in my life before. He has since thoroughly apologized for each and every wrong doing, without prompting from me on what to apologize for.

 

I think you're on to something about the "quick divorce." He's mentioned a few times previoiusly how he thinks his D will take a long time. He's also mentioned friends whose D's are taking +2 years. I would prefer to be hands-off about his D process. So let's say I take him back, but he drags it out, then I will once again be in the position of having to "pull the trigger." Ugh.

 

Is there a middle ground, such as not waiting until the D papers are stamped by the court, but still having some kind of established time limit with him? Is that even possible, considering that he can't control the timing of D negotiations 100%?

[whichwayisup]

But do keep in mind that he treated me very well for the 6 months I've known him.

 

I still think HE isn't sure if he is going to end his marriage. 6 months of an affair vs his long marriage. ( can't remember how long he's been married.)

 

Upon reconcilliation, we renegotiated our terms:

Must be "officially" separated from his wife, even if he is still there sometimes. But she needs to know (and agree) that he is dating.

He and I only date each other.

Everything out in the open, so we can become more "public" and see if we are a good couple.

Wow, and with all of that in place, I felt good. June/July were some of the best in my life.

 

Oh, but here's where I messed up big time. I took him back before he was "officially" separated and available for dating.

 

How have things changed from when you first started posting on LS? He's STILL talking about separating, (no actions that stick) he will still need time alone to deal with the loss of his marriage, his life as he knew it - That routine, friends, family, etc.. He can't jump out of a marriage and create a new life with you so quickly. That's just not healthy and something you should settle for. He divorces, then you casually 'date' him. Do it the proper way.

[whichwayisup]

If this was a single man who treated you like this and you only knew him for 6 months, would you still be willing to fight for him and put in so much effort? Would you take such crappy treatment?

 

Forget how this guy makes you feel. Think long term. Look HOW he's handled this whole thing. Instead of separating or divorcing because he's in a miserable marriage, he's cheating. Seems not to really have the balls to up and leave on his own.

[greengoddess]

No actions at all. Why does it take a month to look at apartments? He's still stringing you along. After a month it will be something new.

 

Not I'll find a place as soon as possible but it should take a month WHY?

 

I know in my area there are only so many developments condos, appartments, subdivions etc that I would even consider and it certainly would not take a month to choose one.

 

He just wants to talk to you. Keep you from getting a boyfriend and moving on.

[jj33]

WS I appreciate what you say about melt downs and I think we all have to give you credit that you have enough smarts to monitor that one very carefully.

 

His W is out of work. Assuming you believe that they he will not back off later saying he thought he could do it but its too difficult financially.

 

Moving out is very different than filing for divorce. There is a middle ground. Has he hired a lawyer yet? I am not sure exactly how the process works state to state but has he served her with a petition for divorce or taken whatever opening legal steps need to be taken?

 

I would see that as a middle ground. As you say he has moved out before. Moving out and actually serving a spouse with papers are two very different things. Divorce negotiations before lawyers have been hired (if they are using lawyers) and something has been filed are too preliminary. Thats just the two of them talking about how if and when the divorce will take place.

 

I would think actually having your spouse served with divorce papers is a very big emotional step. He is then taking formal legal action to terminate the marriage. The ink may not be dry on the divorce decree for some time but at least the formal process will be in motion.

 

Until he has served papers (with or without a lawyer) and she has filed a response and you see that this is for real... I would be cautious. But once he has taken that step, then to me, its a different story.

 

Hang in there. This sounds like a very positive development.

[wildsoul]

If this was a single man who treated you like this and you only knew him for 6 months, would you still be willing to fight for him and put in so much effort? Would you take such crappy treatment?

Thank you. That is exactly my context. Since we are broken up, I'm looking at this as a do-over. What do I think? What do I need?

 

Note to everyone:

I hope you'll continue to share your thoughts. I do appreciate it.

But please, let me underscore this urgent point:

 

I'm just starting to think about this in terms of "what if" scenarios.

 

It feels like you are acusing me of things I'm not doing or haven't decided yet. What I'm trying to do here is get different viewpoints as input to prevent making mistakes. It's largely hypothetical at this point. I'm trying to sort out what is the right thing to do.

[porter218]

All of his reasons sound right. However I wouldn't go running into his arms full force yet. Ease back into it guarded and very slowly. Make it clear to him that you need to see that this is for real this time which means he is going to have to understand that you aren't just going to pick up where you left off. You need to treat this like a new relationship that is starting from the beginning. But just to avoid games that he may be playing ..let him move out first before you start real contact with him. Also to make sure he is really strong enough to make this permanent, you should give him lots of time by himself to stew in his juices once he has moved out(then you can see if he runs back to wifey the moment you aren't there for him). Just be careful, and don't get sucked in too fast.

[jj33]

Looking at Porters post that is exactly why I would wait until he has filed something. Once he has taken that big step of filing and she has entered some sort of response there is a much lesser likelihood that he is going to go running back. Simply renting a place to live is not enough based since he has already done that once before. Youve been there done that worn the T shirt.

[greengoddess]

How often are you talking to him?

 

Any conversation will keep him coming back for more.

[wildsoul]

No actions at all. Why does it take a month to look at apartments? He's still stringing you along. After a month it will be something new.

 

He just wants to talk to you. Keep you from getting a boyfriend and moving on.

He's not saying it will definitely take a month. He looked at places yesterday and again today. Most rental agreements would be started around the 1st of the month, so soon.

 

It was me that asked "when do you think you will be fully moved out?" In other words, to me, having a signed rental agreement is completely insufficient. I was poking around to find out if he was serious. He said that he'd probably go a little slow on the move out, up to 2 weeks. So it's me that calculated that as a month and am presenting it to you that way.

 

Yes, it has occured to me that he might be trying to act before I get another boyfriend. But is that so wrong? (assuming he's serious) Everyone here talks about "if he really wants to be with you, he's going to act and not let anything get in the way." So if he does love me, of course he wouldn't want to risk losing me to someone else.

 

Is anyone else here noticing a trend of damned if they do, damned if they don't?

[whichwayisup]

The other thing is, you've known this man less than 7 months. Ofcourse you've invested emotionally in him, but he's invested many years into his wife and marriage, same goes for her into him.

 

I'm trying to sort out what is the right thing to do

 

The proper way is tell him goodbye (for now) and he can come looking for you when he's a free man.

 

You don't need to know ALL the details of his marriage breaking up, things he does or says.

 

Put a time limit on it because Thanksgiving isn't that far off, then it's Xmas, New Years etc..

[whichwayisup]

Why is he sooo concerned about you getting another boyfriend? He knows how you feel about him and it's not like you're gonna go off and find someone else. Seems to me, he's reflecting/mirroring what HE is doing to his wife and transferring it onto you.

[2sunny]

WS-

 

i'd proceed VERY cautiously. WAIT until his actions show what he has stated as his intentions.

 

just the fact that he says he is looking for an apartment doesn't mean that he'll move anytime soon... and a month? WTF? if someone is intending to move they usually make it happen - like - tomorrow!

 

keep your emotions at a distance and just be an observer for a while... it will allow you some clarity by being objective instead of reacting to all the emotional drama that he will have coming his way in the next year while he gets his divorce under way.

 

there is no need to jump back into the drama scene as time will tell you what the right thing is.

 

by telling you that he's moving - that was his way of reeling you back into the position that he wants you in. highly manipulative and selfish of him.

 

find a new position - one YOU choose - not him. one that will make you happy and allow you to keep your sanity.

[greengoddess]

Did he offer you to come look at the rentals with him? I would think that would be something exciting he would want to share with you since he intends to be in a committed relationship out in the open with you.

 

Apartment leases work on a month to month basis they certainly don't have to be signed on the first of the month.

[wildsoul]

Moving out is very different than filing for divorce. There is a middle ground. Has he hired a lawyer yet? ...I would see that as a middle ground.

So far, this seems like the best middle ground. One of my main concerns is whether or not SHE knows he is divorcing her. In other words, I want to avoid the MM playing both sides situation that is indemic here.

 

In our state, another intermediary step is the filing for legal separation. Couples like my xH and I skipped that step. We just separated, then began D proceeding. But in our case, there was never a "maybe we'll get back together." I'm not sure how/why couples file for legal separation instead of going straight to divorce. I know that legally, it has to do with uncomingling finances. What do you think about legal separation papers as proof that he's serious?

 

Again, I'm just looking for different places that I might have a boundary. Obviously, having finalized divorce papers is the ultimate. But I still want to toss different ideas around.

[jj33]

"Yes, it has occured to me that he might be trying to act before I get another boyfriend. But is that so wrong? (assuming he's serious) Everyone here talks about "if he really wants to be with you, he's going to act and not let anything get in the way." So if he does love me, of course he wouldn't want to risk losing me to someone else.

 

Is anyone else here noticing a trend of damned if they do, damned if they don't?"

 

WS this is the quickest action I have ever heard of. I think people are just being protective of you. And everyone comes from their own point of view and their own experiences. And I think it shows real respect on his side that you are serious about ending it, he cant play around or he will lose you for good and its a chance he doesnt want to take.

 

That being said, I feel like a broken record but I would just wait until he has filed something. If he is serious about it, filing wont take that long. If he wanted to he could start the process after Labor Day. Then the whole world will know he wants to end the M, it will be a matter of public record.

[wildsoul]

Why is he sooo concerned about you getting another boyfriend? He knows how you feel about him and it's not like you're gonna go off and find someone else. Seems to me, he's reflecting/mirroring what HE is doing to his wife and transferring it onto you.

Let me clarify, he hasn't dared to state an opinion on me dating. Greengoddess was speculating and mentioned it in her post. I was just musing that I've speculated on that, too.

[greengoddess]

remember writing this?

 

Thank you for the empathy!

 

To clarify: We didn't get to the point where it was all on the table. That was the problem. He said he was going to make it all official with her, but needed a few conversations. He told me he started them, but then stopped all progress.

 

My mistake was getting back before he kept his end of the deal. I believed he was going to do what he said.

 

It's a mute point now, but I wasn't sure how I'd know for sure. It had occured to me that I might speak with her. Yet we didn't get that far.

 

You are in that same exact place with him you were then. They have no kids. It should not take two weeks to move out after finding a rental. Talk to his wife. Give her a call and you won't have to suffer like this anymore. You will know the truth and then if he is lying to his wife also she will know the truth. If it is to be all out in the open he should have no problem with you talking to her. You are in a better situation than most since they have no children together. It should not be as messy and they should have a clean no need to speak again divorce.

[stampdaddy]

WS, just let me say this to you: I have been watching my MW "go through her divorce" now for 6 months... NO WAIT, there is no divorce going on.. no papers, no separation, no telling anyone else (but me of course).. sure, there has been "talk" between them, there has been "preparing", but nothing more than that.. I think I am losing my mind.. DO NOT SIT AND WATCH.. Do not waste time waiting...

[greengoddess]

Oh and his wife will respect you if you have the integrity to make sure their marriage is over before you continue a relationship with him. Does his wife have any idea you were seeing him in the past.

[wildsoul]

WS-

 

i'd proceed VERY cautiously. WAIT until his actions show what he has stated as his intentions.

 

find a new position - one YOU choose - not him. one that will make you happy and allow you to keep your sanity.

Thank you. YES. That's why I'm posting this thread. Seriously, the power balance has shifted now. (I took back my power when I ended the A.) I would be quite happy staying single for awhile. Maybe date someone else in due course. It's funny, but reading my own signature here applies in reverse: He's an option, and I'm my own priority*.

 

*Holy cow, when did that happen? Maybe I am making some progress after all. I really want to determine what forwards and backwards looks like. That's really all that matters. I don't want to suffer a setback. Only forwards progress for me!

[whichwayisup]

WS, you can't be fully objective or really doubt him because you're in the situation and too close to it.

 

Listen to what others are telling you, especially SD since he IS going through this now.

 

It won't kill you to back off and leave him alone. Just focus on you, your life, family, kids, friends, whatever..Don't make HIM your number one priority, he certainly isn't doing that for you.

[wildsoul]

Did he offer you to come look at the rentals with him? I would think that would be something exciting he would want to share with you since he intends to be in a committed relationship out in the open with you.

Yes, but I dismissed the idea. Non-chalently telling him that he needs to find a place that is going to suit him and his new life. (I need to see that he can man-up and do this on his own.)