When the Married Person Separates from Their Spouse

[wildsoul]

Just want to add: these what if scenarios are exhausting. I'm still not sure I'm going to walk this road with him. I love him and all, but I don't want all his drama to take over my life. It's hard enough to form a R with one person. This triangulated business is overly complicated!

 

I'd like to strike a balance between staying focused on the things I need in my life and from my R, and how much I can be there for another.

 

LOL...I don't want to feel like I'M WORKING ON HIS D more than he and his W are! :rolleyes:

[Owl]

Just want to add: these what if scenarios are exhausting. I'm still not sure I'm going to walk this road with him. I love him and all, but I don't want all his drama to take over my life. It's hard enough to form a R with one person. This triangulated business is overly complicated!

 

I'd like to strike a balance between staying focused on the things I need in my life and from my R, and how much I can be there for another.

 

LOL...I don't want to feel like I'M WORKING ON HIS D more than he and his W are! :rolleyes:

 

I'm sure you don't want to feel that way...but I'm equally sure that you're far more concerned about it than he is.

 

His actions clearly tell you that its NOT a priority for him at this point.

 

Personally, I say kick him to the curb...find yourself someone with a lot less baggage who can make you the priority in his life from day one...but hey...that's must my viewpoint!

[norajane]

Just want to add: these what if scenarios are exhausting. I'm still not sure I'm going to walk this road with him. I love him and all, but I don't want all his drama to take over my life. It's hard enough to form a R with one person. This triangulated business is overly complicated!

 

I'd like to strike a balance between staying focused on the things I need in my life and from my R, and how much I can be there for another.

 

LOL...I don't want to feel like I'M WORKING ON HIS D more than he and his W are! :rolleyes:

 

That's why some of us have recommended that you back wayyyyy off on the contact. You don't need to be in the midst of every tiny step and every breath and sigh of their divorce, nor do you need to hear about it all.

 

You KNOW FOR SURE that he is in no shape to give to you what you want right now. So tell him to call you in 3 months when some of the dust has settled. And in the meantime, turn your thoughts to yourself, not what's going on with his new apartment and whether his wife is trying to reconcile or is squeezing his balls on the settlement. Just let it go for a while, and look at things with fresh eyes later.

[whichwayisup]

Just want to add: these what if scenarios are exhausting. I'm still not sure I'm going to walk this road with him. I love him and all, but I don't want all his drama to take over my life. It's hard enough to form a R with one person. This triangulated business is overly complicated!

 

WS, maybe you should stop thinking up senario's and the "what if's"... Why plan and think so far ahead right now. ANYTHING can happen and as much as you want to believe his actions, and also what he tells you, he cannot 100% guarantee that he won't bend if his wife freaks out, and begs for them to work it out. He is going to SEE her emotions firsthand and upclose - THAT will affect him, reguardless if he isn't inlove with her, it'll still affect him and make him feel awful that he's inflicted alot of pain onto her.

[wildsoul]

Either way, HE is going to need time to adjust, tell his friends and family that he is separating soon to be divorcing his wife - And somehow tell them about you. Timing is everything and last thing you need to deal with is everyone looking at you as the cause of their breakup. Not sure if you have the right to dictate or tell him how this is going to go down as it's his marriage ending and he has to do it his way.

Exactly. I think if I know where my bottom-line boundaries are, I can give him space to do his thing. I'm trying to sort out my boundaries ahead of time, but then again, I might also need to ease into this to find out.

 

Even if I was dating a single man for the last 6 months, there is no guarantee that we'd stay together or get married yet. Yanno? So while I want/need some measures of extra safety, maybe more than with a single guy because of this particular scenario, we still need to go through the process of having a relationship. It's not lost on me that we could end for other reasons besides his M/D. That's life.

 

BTW, you're also touching on my other MAIN concern. What is the optimal way for us to "come out" as a couple? Wouldn't it seem best for everyone if we took it slow? Seems like that would be less "in her face." Also, I'm looking at how this would affect my future too. I don't want to be stuck in his family as the hated home-wrecker! No way. I don't want that hell. Yes, there was the overlap of the A, but I think we'd do best to hide that.

 

She does know about me (don't know what she knows exactly) but no one else on his side does. She is the type who is very concerned about what others think. She's also of an orthodox type religion. For example, she blew a gasket when her middle-age brother recently came out of the closet. Everyone else in her family gave him some acceptance. Sheesh, he had to hide his husband of many years from them! But she is very angry at him for being gay, and is personally ashamed. So helping her save face seems both kind and strategic. If she's embarrassed, she might turn ugly.

[whichwayisup]

What is the optimal way for us to "come out" as a couple? Wouldn't it seem best for everyone if we took it slow? Seems like that would be less "in her face." Also, I'm looking at how this would affect my future too. I don't want to be stuck in his family as the hated home-wrecker! No way. I don't want that hell. Yes, there was the overlap of the A, but I think we'd do best to hide that.

 

Don't even think about going public with his family and friends until their divorce is finalized.

She does know about me (don't know what she knows exactly) but no one else on his side does.

 

The thing is, he may have made it seem like you're just a friend or a woman who has/had a crush on him. You know he's downplayed you in her eyes, that is for sure.

 

She is the type who is very concerned about what others think. She's also of an orthodox type religion. For example, she blew a gasket when her middle-age brother recently came out of the closet. Everyone else in her family gave him some acceptance. Sheesh, he had to hide his husband of many years from them! But she is very angry at him for being gay, and is personally ashamed. So helping her save face seems both kind and strategic. If she's embarrassed, she might turn ugly.

 

Again, you only have HIS version of this, and you've seen HIS display of emotions, don't think that he's never freaked out about anything else like that before, he has. Give her a break, I mean you only know what HE is telling you about her and more than likely it's been exaggerated to suit him, make her look even worse.

 

Guess time will tell though..

[jj33]

Jeez Owl, you're such a hard ass. But you're on my team, so that's good!

 

Firstly, I think he's purposefully giving me conservative estimates. I'd much rather have that than broken promises.

 

Secondly, I think he's trying to not give his wife a coronary. He just announced the move out a few days ago. When I separated from my xH, I did it over a course of many car loads too, and I actually advocate that. Also, he's going from a 3600' place to 750' (while paying for both.) I think he deserves a couple weeks to set it up nicely. If the shoe were on the other foot, I'd take even longer.

 

Thirdly, it's really not my business how long he takes. We're broken up, remember? My "official" position is no R before he's fully moved out. So meanwhile, I'm still on the "work on me" plan.

 

Not sure about the filing date exactly. I mentioned his initial answer to my question in this thread below. He is thinking about a year from now. There is no firm date, but part of that is because I haven't wanted to engage in full negotiations yet. I'm still minimizing my contact with him. He's got to do the move out before I'll discuss too much more. I'm not going to be his sure thing.

 

Meanwhile, the more important question is "What is MY date?" How long seems reasonable to me? I did order that book someone recommended (sorry, I forget who mentioned it to me) "How to survive your boyfriends divorce." Based on the reviews, it seems she has some tips for the GF to make a plan for herself. I like that idea. And I'm keenly interested in the successes and failures of others here.

 

It's a non-negotiable requirement that we end the A dynamic. She must know and agree to him dating. But I also want to make sure I don't swap the futility of the A for the futility of waiting for his paperwork. *Thinking, thinking, thinking.*

 

WS You make a lot of good points. You are still broken up. You dont want to devote your life to supervising his divorce.

 

Its a process. Just like you are going through your process he is going through his. He has taken swift action (let that be a lesson to the rest of us - if you back off and they are serious about leaving once they can no longer live in the comfort zone of 2 women they will take action....)

 

He may hope and believe in his heart that now that he has shown you how serious he is, that you will immediately restart your relationship. If you dont, he may become hostile again.

 

Im not suggesting that you run back in there. As a member of your team I would warn against it. If I were in your shoes there would be a huge temptation to rush back in and be there for him but it probably wouldnt be the right thing to do for myself, wouldnt be the best way of looking after myself as the future is so uncertain.

 

What is it that you need to see? That he is leaving regardless of whether he is with you?

 

It would not be surprising if she asked him to work on the M even tho he has left. And I would agree with other posters that whether his wife gives him permission to date is between them. Is it really even a matter of permission? It may make the divorce messier if he is dating and it upsets her, but if they are separated, is it really her call? And do you really want to be in the position of calling W to ask whether he is allowed out to play? Doesnt seem like your style.

 

I dont want to be unkind to his W who must be hurting immeasurably, but he already moved out once before, why would it give her a coronary if he fully moved out and actually filed soon after without waiting a year? The people I know who have moved out with an intent to divorce hired lawyers and started the process immediately. And even then it can take years with the financial negotiations, disclosures etc. They dont wait around to start the process unless there is some possibility of reconcilliation. I have never been through the process. But waiting a year would seem to give his W false hope.

 

It is a jumble for both of you. Its good that you are continuing to focus on you. You are handling this really well.

 

Edited to add - hadnt seen your most recent posts - taking it very very slow seems like the best idea. For you and for any relatoinship you may have in the future.

[NewSunrise]

Your "what ifs" concerns and dire search for common inputs from readers show you have some serious concerns about this R. A red flag.

 

So let's turn the table. If your sister (even if you don't have one) or best friend comes to you with this dilemma, what would you suggest?

 

Back to you, what is your gut instinct telling you?

 

If you answer these concerns followed by a ...."but..." you're looking to justify your position.

 

Bottom line: Unless you two are ill with a death sentence what harm will it do to either of you to wait? The worst that can happen is that you will find youself in the meantime....and you may not want him.

[wildsoul]

WS You make a lot of good points. You are still broken up. You dont want to devote your life to supervising his divorce.

Thanks, jj33!

Seriously, besides the "priority vs. option" quote in my sig-line, my new mantra is "I can't let myself care more about his divorce than he does." But I like how you worded it too! I'm not sure what my affirmation will be, but I have a knowing in my bones that I need to detach from his D process--period.

 

That is not to say that I can't also have my own boundaries about how long I will date someone who is separated, not divorced. Not at all. But it's psychology 101 that it's not healthy to be all in his business.

 

That reminds me of my definition of frustration: To be responsible for something I can't control.

 

The reason underneath all these questions is that I'm afraid of making a mistake. (Someone here chastised my questioning, which I don't understand.) I've been on this board a month as of today, and after reading so many heartbreaking stories, it's clear that it's rare these situations work out. So I'm trying to keep both eyes open and make good choices. That said, I don't want to become obsessed with his divorce process. It's his problem, not mine.

 

Somewhere in all this, I'm going to find a balance. I'm still minimizing contact. I took his call when he told me he had the keys, and we had those opening reconcilliation negotiations, but that's it.

 

He specifically told me that he wants me to call him anytime, explaining that he wants to remove the A limitations where I didn't feel that I could call him anytime, especially at night. So he is trying to change the dynamic, which is good. And believe me, I'm happy to see that he took action fairly quickly: less than a month after our break up, he's got a lease on his new residence. This is good so far.

 

But in the month since we broke up, I've been working on the "me" plan. You might recall that I noticed how my own stress over finances in my post-divorce year (no marital support) was making me feel lonely and needy. So when I met MM, I was more vulnerable than usual. I know I have self-sufficiency things to take care of. To get through the breakup, I've been exercising regularly, eating very healthy, meditating, reaching out for support here...I feel like simply continuing to do all that, while he does whatever he is going to do.

 

I had a little flurry of obsessive what-if's, but that was because I was so surprised that he took action on separating as quickly as he did. Now, I'm digesting the things we have all discussed here. Turning that burner down to simmer. Going back to the me plan, while he packs up his junk and moves out. I'll see him then, not before.

[wildsoul]

Your "what ifs" concerns and dire search for common inputs from readers show you have some serious concerns about this R. A red flag.

 

So let's turn the table. If your sister (even if you don't have one) or best friend comes to you with this dilemma, what would you suggest?

 

Back to you, what is your gut instinct telling you?

Thank you, NS! I want to address your 3 points, so for clarity, I'll number them.

 

1. (Totally disagree with this point, but thank you!) I think asking for inputs and being concerned is SMART. You're turning it around like it's a bad thing, and that makes no sense to me! It's damned if I do, damned if I don't. If I have to chose one damnation or another, then I'll error on the side of due diligence. Asking for help and counsel is a sign of strength, not weakness to me. (Again, I do appreciate your input.)

 

2. If someone else asked me about this, my main points for her would be:

• Continue taking care of yourself as you have been during the breakup. You cannot lose if you do that! Stay balanced.
  
• Remember: you are in a position of choice. He's an option. You get to decide, but you don't have to decide today.
  
• Your fears are making you want to have this all nailed down with a plan in place. While a plan is admirable, it's not realistic that you can know all, and have a contingency plan for all.
  
• Don't obsess over what you can't control. Instead, let the situation unfold. He can't tell you how it's going to go either, as he's never been divorced before. Give the situation space. Let them do what they are going to do. You already went through your divorce, don't put yourself through his, too!
  
• It's okay to date him after he's moved out. Now that the limitations of the A are removed, you can spend more time as couple.
  
• You've only known him 6 months and wouldn't normally expect either of you to know if this is a lifetime commitment. That's not your style. The A distorted the natural process of the R, as you both felt like you had to constantly look at the possiblity of what would happen if the R turned into something big. The risks/failures seemed bigger than if you were both already single. Take a breath; date him as if you are both single; see where it naturally wants to go next.
  

3. Gut instincts? I actually feel pretty calm. I'm much more detached. The amends he been making feel "right." That feels like a clean slate in my belly now. I feel strongly that as long as I stay connected to my own center, I'll be perfectly fine. It feels right to date him when he's moved. I need to trust that if I stay centered, I'll also know when it's time to pull out (if that should be the case.) Less planning/obsessing. More easing into it feels exactly right and good.

 

Thanks again for your feedback. You helped me get more clear.

[jj33]

Im glad you found it helpful. We all speak from our own perspective and I know I am an action person. I like to take action and see action and encourage action and I would need to remind myself over and over not to act like it was "our" divorce. (little codependent and boundary breaking there). But you seem to have that all in hand.

 

When you are in it, you think if he is serious about leaving and he leaves, then it will be OK... but here you are at looking at a point where there is light at the end of the tunnel (assuming the train doesnt start backing up) and its still complicated!

 

Maybe that is just life. There are challenges along the way and you need to find a way to minimize the risks and enjoy the journey.

[wildsoul]

My guy invited me to see his new apartment last weekend. It's a great 1 bedroom in a super location. He's an hour away from where he lived with his W, and an hour away from me. This place looks good for him.

 

He's moving things in. I helped him select and order a sofa and bedroom furniture, and also loaned him an inflatable mattress and linens that he can use in meantime. Then we did a monster shopping trip to buy dishes, towels, coffee maker, and all those things that he needs right away.

 

I agreed to date him again now that he is officially separated. He is saying and doing all the right things (in my opinion) so I'm feeling good about this stage. There is a long ways to go, and much remains to be seen. I'm feeling clear and objective though. Words/actions are all lined up. Things are happening. It's good right now.

[porter218]

Glad to see things are progressing. Just proceed slowly and make sure he has plenty alone time to process his D. He needs to be secure in his D and not use you as his emotional crutch.

 

Good luck to you!

[2sunny]

My guy invited me to see his new apartment last weekend. It's a great 1 bedroom in a super location. He's an hour away from where he lived with his W, and an hour away from me. This place looks good for him.

 

He's moving things in. I helped him select and order a sofa and bedroom furniture, and also loaned him an inflatable mattress and linens that he can use in meantime. Then we did a monster shopping trip to buy dishes, towels, coffee maker, and all those things that he needs right away.

 

I agreed to date him again now that he is officially separated. He is saying and doing all the right things (in my opinion) so I'm feeling good about this stage. There is a long ways to go, and much remains to be seen. I'm feeling clear and objective though. Words/actions are all lined up. Things are happening. It's good right now.

 

 

the bolded things jumped out at me...

 

be careful WS. yes he is saying and doing all the right things - this is to keep you in the place he wants you to be.

 

officially separated? did he file for divorce and show you the filed stamp? if not it's only words and actions of being in the middle still. he literally physically put himself half way between you and his W. hmmmmmm

 

words and actions LINED UP doesn't mean he will follow through with a bigger plan... it usually means he has placed himself in a position to still get whatever he wants. his W still there and his OW hanging around thinking that things will change.

 

time will tell i suppose.

 

have you considered giving YOURSELF a deadline for your sense of sanity and boundaries?

[wildsoul]

have you considered giving YOURSELF a deadline for your sense of sanity and boundaries?

Yes. Everything in my recent posts to this thread still apply. I'm still sorting out where my boundaries are. I'm thinking that I want a sense of that, without being overly rigid, and without telling him. Somewhere in this, I think there is a balance of me staying on track with my own life/needs, not getting too wrapped up in his stuff, and yet being open to dating him.

 

Right now, I'm just easing in. Very clear headed. I'm in a very good place emotionally and mentally.

[Owl]

I'd heartily suggest that you have your boundaries sorted out BEFORE you recommit to anything with him.

 

Otherwise, you're going to be afraid to make them very strong...and you're going to end up back in the same place you've been this whole time.

 

If you set "soft" boundaries, they're going to be worse than useless...

 

Set FIRM boundaries NOW.

[wildsoul]

I'd heartily suggest that you have your boundaries sorted out BEFORE you recommit to anything with him.

 

Otherwise, you're going to be afraid to make them very strong...and you're going to end up back in the same place you've been this whole time.

 

If you set "soft" boundaries, they're going to be worse than useless...

 

Set FIRM boundaries NOW.

Gotcha. BTW, I'm waiting for a book I ordered to arrive. It's been mentioned here. Surviving Your Boyfriend's Divorce (or something like that.) I have a strong hunch that there is some info in there that will help me to determine my boundaries, so thats a bit of why I haven't laid them all out yet.

 

For now, the non-negotiable boundary (that I've told him about) is that I refuse to continue in the A dynamic. He must be moved out. It must transition that we are dating out in the open. My compromise is that I will date him while he is separated, and not yet divorced. But the separation needs to be public (I don't care about paperwork at this point.)

 

The rest of my boundaries are still being formed, but I can assure you that is my next step in the process.

[mytruelove]

just checking in to see how things are going with you. don't have a lot of advice to give you. sounds like you are feeling pretty good about things right now.

 

i agree with owl on knowing your boundaries before you commit. i thought i had strong boundaries with my guy too and we both know that i broke those, so... make sure there strong.

 

it did take me long to realize that my boundaries were broken and put them back into place. you do sound like you are strong enough to do that also if need be.

 

wishing you all the best!!!

[Owl]

You mentioned at one point the requirement that his wife be aware of his ongoing relationship of you as well...I'd assumed that was to ensure that he was no longer lying to her and carrying on the affair.

 

How do you plan on ending the 'affair dynamic' going forward?

[NoIDidn't]

My guy invited me to see his new apartment last weekend. It's a great 1 bedroom in a super location. He's an hour away from where he lived with his W, and an hour away from me. This place looks good for him.

 

He's moving things in. I helped him select and order a sofa and bedroom furniture, and also loaned him an inflatable mattress and linens that he can use in meantime. Then we did a monster shopping trip to buy dishes, towels, coffee maker, and all those things that he needs right away.

 

I agreed to date him again now that he is officially separated. He is saying and doing all the right things (in my opinion) so I'm feeling good about this stage. There is a long ways to go, and much remains to be seen. I'm feeling clear and objective though. Words/actions are all lined up. Things are happening. It's good right now.

 

 

This is not my definition of taking things slowly. This is wayyyy too fast. IMHO.

 

I would not help him with all this shopping, because he needs to make these transitions himself. He needs to be on his own and responsible for himself for a while. I would be okay visiting his place, but not helping him furnish it and get 'linens n' things'. LOL.

 

A MM (cheating or otherwise) is used to having a woman (his W, usually) do those kinds of things for him. Before the W, it was more than likely Mom or someone related to him. This is one of the reasons why they stray. Too much mothering/help.

 

He needs to stand on his own. Map out his own identity without the female help. Decorate for himself, even if it is hideous.

 

Because if you don't let him do these things on his own, your boundaries are going to get muddled and disappear altogether.

 

So, IMHO, too fast. Slow down the pace. Curb the enthusiasm, so to speak. Visit, date, but don't decorate.

[wildsoul]

You mentioned at one point the requirement that his wife be aware of his ongoing relationship of you as well...I'd assumed that was to ensure that he was no longer lying to her and carrying on the affair.

 

How do you plan on ending the 'affair dynamic' going forward?

Still ruminating on this. I'm still taking things slow with him in the sense that he has other commitments (to me) to fulfill. I've not been wanting to jump too far ahead and obsess about all the details. I started doing that in the earlier parts of this thread, but then stopped. I feel like it's healthier for me to hang back, watch what he does next. Keeping my planning in alignment with our rate of progress. Make sense?

 

But I have decided that I don't need to speak to her. I think it's enough proof when I see that he is physcially and socially separated. He just got the keys to his apartment and is moving. His next actions need to be announcing his separation to family and friends. That is going to be a big deal, as it's one of the reasons he's been dragging his feet in the past. He's worried about people's reactions. So far, he told his best friend and the best friend's wife (about his separation, not about me.) They've been very supportive and helped him find his apartment and get settled.

 

Once he's made his separation public we can begin dating openly. Meeting his family/friends is all the proof I need. I don't need to hear it from her. I would speak with her if she reached out to me though. I think the best thing is to let her decide what interaction she wants/doesn't want with me. I do think there needs to be a "respectful" amount of time between now and when we go out as a couple. It's not 100% honest to act like we just met (and she does know that he knows me) but it's also true that he and I were broken up at a couple different points. We've not been together since he gave up his previous room rental, and won't be getting back together until he's separated. People will probably figure out that we have some overlap, but the truth of our story isn't all that bad.

 

I am curious as to how the others who've come out to family/friends made it work. The couples I know who've done so, pretty much did it through being vague. Sort of a don't ask, don't tell policy, where they wait a few weeks or month after separation then make it seem like they just started dating then.

[Owl]

So basically they made others accept their relationship by a "lie by omission".

 

Is that really how you want this relationship to start?

 

That's one of the reasons I suggested NC until he's actually DIVORCED.

[2sunny]

Sort of a don't ask, don't tell policy

 

 

ay yay yay - ws

 

i thought i was really proud of you for good boundaries....

 

they seem to be getting lost in murky waters all of a sudden... yikes... careful honey.

 

he hasn't shown proof of telling the W and no proof of actual divorce...

 

let him show you proof before you put your vulnerable self out there again.

 

and expect folks to judge - they do that by nature... i would totally lay low for a good while and allow him to do the hard work necessary for your relationship to sustain the hurricane that he will experience for the next duration of time.

 

divorce is painful, hard, trying and emotional. let him work through these emotions and show you his healthy side once he is finished with it all... it takes time.

[mytruelove]

"i would totally lay low for a good while and allow him to do the hard work necessary for your relationship to sustain the hurricane that he will experience for the next duration of time. "

 

such good advice in your post above.

 

ohhh soo hard to follow though, geez does it take strength!!!

[GreenEyedLady]

You wanna know how we did it?

 

We just moved in together.

 

And let the chips fall where they did.

 

It worked for us.

 

'Course my whole attitude is "If you don't pay my bills, why do I care what you think?" It's a mentality that has served me well.

 

And we're very happy. This is the man that was made for me. And we love each other deeply. And there wasn't a thing that would stop me from being with him.

 

Do what you need to do. Live your life the way you need to. Love like you've never been hurt.

 

GEL