Life After Death with NDE

[Explorer]

Hello all,

 

Not sure if this topic has ever been brought up, but I would like to bring to your attention the discussion of life after death experiences. Which would be defined by someone who is temporarily pronounced dead but comes back to life.

 

I have viewed around 50+ videos of people who claim to have had an experience of such. What I find absolutely amazing is the similarities of all explanations of the after-life. Most of these similarities occur something like this:

 

1. As soon as death occurs, you view your dead body as if looking over a balcony.

2. After this, you become instantaneously mixed in with the spiritual world - usually through a tunnel which feels like getting sucked through a vacuum.

3. Time is no longer relative, the understanding of infinity and forever becomes realized

4. You see a light that brings a complete sense of peace, harmony, love and perfection - a feeling difficult to describe in words by all

5. Jesus and\or God is seen

6. A life review takes place

7. The person awakens back to life

 

I have to concur that these events peak my curiosity.

 

Does the Bible explain any of these events?

 

What does everyone else think of a Near Death Experience?

[Explorer]

No I mean does the bible speak of these events that happen when you die...?

[Lovelybird]

I don't remember Bible talks about a near death experience, but Bible does talk about visions, about future. The revelation talks about heaven and fate of human race, the book of revelation is revealed by God to a believer of Jesus.

 

Bible also talked about 'bring dead to life again', a person died for 3 days, Jesus called his name, he became alive; and several cases Jesus and his followers brought dead to life

 

By Jesus Lord's words, anything is possible for God

[Explorer]

I guess I'm not being clear (I have that problem sometimes). My question was meant to mean - does the bible refer to what happens to you when you die? And if so, are there any similarities between that and what someone claims to have happened to them when they die (E.g. Near Death Experience)?

[Lovelybird]

I remember there are verses talks about life after death.

 

Jesus mentioned a rich man and poor man, after they died, the rich man went to hell and suffered much, and the poor man went to heaven, sit with Abraham and enjoy

 

some descriptions in Bible about heaven are similar to what the people with near death experience decribed what they saw

[Explorer]

So how do athiets and agnostics respond the the first post?

 

Does anyone else have a cite from the bible referencing any of those experiences when you die?

[quankanne]

I believe NDE events are possible, but would like to point out the possibility that not all dogs go to heaven ... in other words, if heaven is an ultimate destination, so is hell. I think there was a book about 20 years back written by a woman whose NDE was a vision of hell ...

 

does the Bible address death experience? I don't remember if OT passages do, but the NT is explicit about dying and rising through Christ. Christians believe that in being baptized you die your old spiritual (for lack of a better word) life and are born anew through Christ.

 

something I've heard of is that when a person nears death, sometimes loved ones come to escort them "home" – my mom was talking about seeing my dead brother and her parents, who were going to accompany her to heaven. And I put credence in what she said, because she never spoke of them in that manner (after death relationships) before.

[Enema]

Neuroscientists can zap parts of your brain with a mild electrical current and get different reactions.

 

They have been able to replicate parts of near death experiences For example, zapping the angular gyrus, it will cause you to have an out of body experience; as if you're looking down at your body from above.

 

When you "die", your body slowly shuts down. Breathing may stop immediately, starving the brain of oxygen, but electrical activity can continue for some time, albeit not as it normally would.

 

So, we have people in a traumatic life or death situation, with their brains starved of oxygen for an extended period of time and their electrics going haywire.

 

The experiences they have are not surprising... and not super natural.

[Explorer]

Neuroscientists can zap parts of your brain with a mild electrical current and get different reactions.

 

They have been able to replicate parts of near death experiences For example, zapping the angular gyrus, it will cause you to have an out of body experience; as if you're looking down at your body from above.

 

When you "die", your body slowly shuts down. Breathing may stop immediately, starving the brain of oxygen, but electrical activity can continue for some time, albeit not as it normally would.

 

So, we have people in a traumatic life or death situation, with their brains starved of oxygen for an extended period of time and their electrics going haywire.

 

The experiences they have are not surprising... and not super natural.

 

From the looks of your reply, I assume you're getting your information from this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/03/health/psychology/03shad.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

 

Yes, it does explain that some evaluations of zapping the angular gyrus produced a supposed sensation similar to an out of body experience. This isn't what's reported by people with NDE. These people report that they actually are floating above and can clearly describe what's going on beneath them. Not just a "Feeling."

 

Besides, it's not even currently conclusive and it's only one element of a near death experience.

 

Who's to say that zapping the a.g. isn't tricking the brain that it's dieing and starting the process of going into the spiritual world?

 

What happens when we die Enema?

[Trojan John]

I have had two near-death experiences in my life. Both times, I was revived by emergency room doctors who told me, "you almost died; you had no heartbeat." There was nothing biblical nor hollywood about it.

 

The first time it was like being deeply asleep and waking up in a stupor. The second time it was FIRE!!!! FIRE AND DAEMONS... kidding. It was like waking up from a bad dream, also in a stupor.

 

When I was younger, however, I would always dream that I was outside of my body looking at it. When I awoke (I would have to jump into my body first), the weather and my surroundings would always be the same as it was when I dreamed it. I used to meditate or focus intently on being outside my body and subjectively it would happen, but objectively, who knows.

 

I was raised Christian, by the way, and was still was practising at the time.

[Enema]

Yes, it does explain that some evaluations of zapping the angular gyrus produced a supposed sensation similar to an out of body experience. This isn't what's reported by people with NDE. These people report that they actually are floating above and can clearly describe what's going on beneath them. Not just a "Feeling."

 

That is indeed the article I was referencing. I posted it here the last time we had a thread about NDE's.

 

You mention that people who have an NDE report think that they really "are" hanging from the ceiling and that the article doesn't say the same thing.

 

This is not a valid comparison to make as the test subject knows what is happening and is fully aware that it's just a "sensation" they're creating. The "real" NDE doesn't know that their A.G is being stimulated so is far more likely to believe that what is happening is real.

 

In our limited testing, we are able to produce results similar to a NDE by stimulating parts of the body.

 

When you die, the same parts of the body are affected, but orders of magnitude greater than what we can do in testing. It's hardly surprising that a NDE has a stronger effect, just like taking a higher dose of a drug.

 

Who's to say that zapping the a.g. isn't tricking the brain that it's dieing and starting the process of going into the spiritual world?

 

Bizarre question. Do you believe in a soul? How do the brain/soul relate to each other in your scenario?

 

What happens when we die Enema?

 

I don't know for sure of course, but I am yet to see anything that indicates our consciousness does anything but cease to exist.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

I guess I'm not being clear (I have that problem sometimes). My question was meant to mean - does the bible refer to what happens to you when you die? And if so, are there any similarities between that and what someone claims to have happened to them when they die (E.g. Near Death Experience)?

 

Death is like unto sleep for the spirit. It is in a dreaming state and we know that when we dream our minds are open to all sorts of thoughts and ideas of the subconscious mind. And so, I am sure people in a state of spiritual openness can be easily connected with the creature and thus are able to see things we may not understand or believe.

 

But no, God does not speak directly on what you see when you are dead.

 

 

DNR

[Explorer]

That is indeed the article I was referencing. I posted it here the last time we had a thread about NDE's.

 

You mention that people who have an NDE report think that they really "are" hanging from the ceiling and that the article doesn't say the same thing.

 

This is not a valid comparison to make as the test subject knows what is happening and is fully aware that it's just a "sensation" they're creating. The "real" NDE doesn't know that their A.G is being stimulated so is far more likely to believe that what is happening is real.

 

In our limited testing, we are able to produce results similar to a NDE by stimulating parts of the body.

 

When you die, the same parts of the body are affected, but orders of magnitude greater than what we can do in testing. It's hardly surprising that a NDE has a stronger effect, just like taking a higher dose of a drug.

 

Many testimonials from NDE explain exactly, in detail, what was occuring when they died as they were -"Literally" floating above their bodies. Again, not just a sensation. That's what I meant.

 

You say that "In our limited testing, we were able to produce..." Again, this limited testing did not prove anything other than an eery feeling that someone had. That's it. Not even somewhat close to the many similar testimonials of NDE. And when you're refering to "we" in the limited testing, I'm assuming that you're background comes from the science industry?

 

Bizarre question. Do you believe in a soul? How do the brain/soul relate to each other in your scenario?

 

What's so bizarre about it? I asked you this question because I was assuming that your problem-solving abilities stem from a scientific background and this was a logical/rational question. But, apparently you do not think so.

 

So, back to your question - brain and soul...let me restructure the question: What if the brain is pre-programmed to react upon the process of death (First stage of NDE: floating above your body), and stimulating the a.g. triggers this process in which tricks the brain into thinking the body is dying?

 

I don't know for sure of course, but I am yet to see anything that indicates our consciousness does anything but cease to exist.

 

What would it take for you, Enema, to believe that our consciousness exists after death?

[Enema]

Many testimonials from NDE explain exactly, in detail, what was occuring when they died as they were -"Literally" floating above their bodies. Again, not just a sensation. That's what I meant.

 

In the scientific test, they used the word "sensation" because they, and the test subject knew they were part of a test and weren't "literally" floating. The person having a "real" NDE however, had it thrust upon them from a traumatic, life threatening, unexpected & unprepared scenario and it's just as likely they had the "sensation" of floating from the ceiling and merely thought it was "literally" happening.

 

Can you provide one or two links where I can read about the testimonials? I of course, don't believe in NDE's, so my natural response is to doubt the legitimacy of the story itself or the people involved.

 

And when you're refering to "we" in the limited testing, I'm assuming that you're background comes from the science industry?

 

My science background doesn't relate to neuroscience.

 

What's so bizarre about it? I asked you this question because I was assuming that your problem-solving abilities stem from a scientific background and this was a logical/rational question. But, apparently you do not think so.

 

There's nothing logical about starting with an unsupported premise (the spiritual world exists) and then trying to mould the evidence to fit the premise. (the suggestion that stimulating the a.g. tricks the brain into thinking it's dying and starts the afterlife trip)

 

So, back to your question - brain and soul...let me restructure the question: What if the brain is pre-programmed to react upon the process of death (First stage of NDE: floating above your body), and stimulating the a.g. triggers this process in which tricks the brain into thinking the body is dying?

 

That's a possibility of course... but the simplest explanation is usually correct. We know that the a.g. is responsible for blending vision with the sense of the bodies position in space, stimulating it funnily enough, causes weird things to happen with your vision and sense of your body in space.

 

What would it take for you, Enema, to believe that our consciousness exists after death?

 

Good question. I'm horrible at these scenarios.... I can't think of anything off the top of my head that wouldn't involve divine intervention.

 

I guess the only real way is to die and see for myself. Of course, if it turned out to be a NDE and I "came back" I would be doubtful of my own experience.