a different prespective needed

[Owl]

One thing you'll see after posting on this forum after four years...almost nothing is unique.

 

In the whole time I've been here, I've seen less than a handful of stories that I consider 'unusual' or 'unique'.

 

Lizzie60 and Owoman are the closest to that...as they fall into the minority of OW that intentionally seek out affairs with married men.

 

Beyond that, the story is nearly identical in its attributes.

 

The solutions tend to be as well.

[bentnotbroken]

That's harsh and un-neccessary.

 

 

Why because I don't believe she is evil. I don't. But I stand by her actions being evil in the sense she is hurting someone and doesn't seem to care.

[bentnotbroken]

One thing you'll see after posting on this forum after four years...almost nothing is unique.

 

In the whole time I've been here, I've seen less than a handful of stories that I consider 'unusual' or 'unique'.

 

Lizzie60 and Owoman are the closest to that...as they fall into the minority of OW that intentionally seek out affairs with married men.

 

Beyond that, the story is nearly identical in its attributes.

 

The solutions tend to be as well.

 

 

Exactly. And I haven't been here that long. But I have been on other sites and the stories are all eerily similiar with a few minor details. It isn't hard to figure out the general outcome. It pains me to see most rational thinking adults in other aspects of their lives, loose their ability to reason, focus or self discipline when the opposite sex(usually with a married person) is involved. It boggles the mind.

 

 

I have seen the excuse of the heart wants what the heart wants too many times to count. But if that was absolutely true, why not go steal a care you can't afford because you desire it with all your heart. Or move into someone else's house just because you always wanted to live in that kind of house in that kind of neighborhood. I want to be rich, it is one of my hearts desires, how should I go about getting rich? By earning,taking it or borrowing it until the someone misses it. Yes, the analogies will be deemed silly, but the fact is our hearts desire a lot of things that aren't good for us or others and we seem to have the ability to pick and choose the things we will cross the line to obtain.

[Ronni_W]

I never told him that if he didn't leave his wife, that it would be over between us. ... I only know that I am not content to live for yrs being the OW. Itis not fair to me

Tana, I agree that it's not fair to you. But it's the same thing, though -- you don't have to TELL it to him, for it to be true for you that if he doesn't leave his wife <in some specific time-frame that you decide>, that it will be over between you two.

 

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with taking such a position for yourself. You do owe it to yourself to take care of your own future and your own heart.

 

Yes, of course, there will be differences in the specifics of your affair...and there will be similarities in the generalities of affairs. Perhaps the difficulty is that the differences as well as the similarities still point to his marriage not ending anytime soon?

 

What I am interpreting (or misinterpreting, as the case may be) is that, with all your heart, you are waiting for someone to say that you have an excellent chance of his marriage ending really, really soon. And anything other than that message just does not feel acceptable, and perhaps even taking that to a point of any message that you do not want, right now, feels like an "attack"...perhaps an attack on your hope and dream if not you, personally(?)

 

And again, there's nothing "bad" or "wrong" about having such a deep desire to want to have a happy ending. But perhaps contributors to this thread aren't inclined to want to give you false hope? Which the majority appear to be of the opinion that it IS false hope to expect a quick ending to his marriage. But that isn't an attack on the situation or any of its participants.

 

We each also have our own way of TRYING to facilitate clarity around certain 'truths' that you are presenting as your current reality/situation. Definitely it is our subjective interpretation of your posts, with our own filters, wisdoms, beliefs and intolerances firmly in place.

There just isn't a way for you to get the "good" this board has to offer without also being subject to the "bad"...of course, as determined by you what constitutes "good" and "bad" in this case -- those are your filters and wisdoms at work.

[bish]

BNB, I know that I am living in a state of "wrongness", I didn't come on this site to be preached to. I came to hear from people that have been in similar situations. Have you ever been through this? I don't mean as the BS but as an OW?

 

I came to this site looking for support and perspective from people who've been where I am now.

 

Then the title of your thread is inaccurate. You don't want a different perspective, you want the same perspective from the same type of people.

[bish]

That's harsh and un-neccessary.

 

Tell that to the guy's wife. I'm sure she'll cry her a river.

[Tomcat33]

I really do feel in my heart that my MM loves me. I defend him because of that love, right or wrong. I know people will say that he has "brainwashed" me into believing what he tells me, but I would hope that I am smart enough to distinguish lies from truth. I could be wrong about that one -- time will tell.

 

I have sat down and written down everything that has gone on in this R and tried to determine from that if he's lying or stringing me along. Again,

it comes down to what I believe, what I feel. I know that men have an amazing ability to make us believe what we want them to believe. I guess my contention is -- why try and make me believe something that I haven't asked for? As I said in my previous posts, a future together was never mentioned. I never hinted or suggested.

 

I never told him that if he didn't leave his wife, that it would be over between us. He is the one who has said that things couldn't continue this way indefinitely. There's alot that has been said and gone on between us that I haven't posted. Maybe if all the details were known, the picture would be clearer. I don't know.

Tana

 

I don't think you need to post any more details, the details are yours and it doesn't matter what they are. The camp that wants you to walk away and thinks that you are "the cause of this marriage's failure" is going to keep saying the same thing in terms of justifying this "so called" help or tough love critcism they want to give you, because ultimately they want that marriage saved even when the people in it might not even want it saved. That's fine but that's up to the two people in the marriage. You are where you are and it's like you said what is done is done. You love this man and you need to figure out what best for you.

 

Eating away at your self esteem and calling you a bad person and making you stew in your "evil actions" is part of the plan that is supposed to errode your selfworth even MORE. The camp that wants to see you happy in whatever you decide to take on in terms of staying with this man or not is going to be supportive either way. They are looking out for YOUR hapiness, the person who came here for help.

 

Everything you mentioned as to why you think as you do makes perfect sense, only YOU know what you are experiencing with this man and why you are where you are. Yes it does help to get a fresh prespective to reference back to how other situations panned out, to other's experiences I just don't see how repeatedly reading "what you are doing is WRONG" or "I don't hate you I hate your actions" helps in anyway or even affect you since you are WAY beyond the "is this right or wrong stage I would assume" . (by the way that is lamest thing I have ever heard, if you hate my actions you hate me because I AM MY ACTIONS) It's like telling someone I like you I just don't like the way you walk, talk, think and breathe. Well gees what's the "me" that you like then when you say you like me NOT my actions?

 

I wonder how many people use that line on their mates? :rolleyes:

 

And I COMPLETELY disagree every single situation IS unique, factors are similar but every single situation is unique. We tend to draw parallels to where we see a connection and perception is that something that looks like what I know IS what I know, but it is not.

 

We are not dealing with the colour of toy building blocks here, where a red block is red stacked upon a green one is a redblock on a green block. We are dealing with humans, complex ones. Every single one of our brains and souls is wired and formed individually and to say that situations are all the same is to say that every single man and woman on this earth also is.

 

The only advice I can give you Tana is LISTEN to your voice. Your voice does not lie, but all the information you will gather here and there and anywhere that clouds your mind will also cloud that voice.

 

What is your voice telling you? Forget sharing more here, what does that voice tell you? Work on that work on truly listening to yourself.

[Owl]

Yep, we're all evil, horrible people...with the only goal of seeing those dreadful chains of marriage binding everyone for eternity. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

... because ultimately they want that marriage saved even when the people in it might not even want it saved.

 

No one here really would know the truth of that or not...since we've not actually heard from either of the people IN the marriage...know what I mean?

 

As far as the "bad person" comments...what IS a bad person? What defines one as such?

 

My intent was absolutely to get the OP to stop and view her actions, her situation from a "different perspective" than the one she's held all along.

 

And in the end...I DO feel that she'd be best served by getting out of the whole situation. This isn't just to save the marriage...but quite frankly its the most likely course of action to let her begin healing sooner and freeing her up to find someone who's NOT going to string her along for months or years while he never takes a true step forward towards ending ihs marriage.

[Tomcat33]

And in the end...I DO feel that she'd be best served by getting out of the whole situation. This isn't just to save the marriage...but quite frankly its the most likely course of action to let her begin healing sooner and freeing her up to find someone who's NOT going to string her along for months or years while he never takes a true step forward towards ending ihs marriage.

 

I agree and yet I also think SHE needs to come to that conclusion on her own free will and sense of conviction NOT because a bunch of strangers feel the need to hammer into her head "I hate your actions not you" or "what you are doing is wrong"

She knows her actions are wrong the whole thing is wrong, she is not 5 yrs old OR retarded but she IS where she is and she loves this man, and he loves her despite being married.

 

At the end of the day some of the comments I see in this thread make it seem like some people are under the impression that she is here to gain acceptance from the masses, when in fact she is here to gain some prespective on an otherwise overwhealming situation.

[bentnotbroken]

I agree and yet I also think SHE needs to come to that conclusion on her own free will and sense of conviction NOT because a bunch of strangers feel the need to hammer into her head "I hate your actions not you" or "what you are doing is wrong"

She knows her actions are wrong the whole thing is wrong, she is not 5 yrs old OR retarded but she IS where she is and she loves this man, and he loves her despite being married.

 

At the end of the day some of the comments I see in this thread make it seem like some people are under the impression that she is here to gain acceptance from the masses, when in fact she is here to gain some perspective on an otherwise overwhelming situation.

 

 

I never said that I hate her or her actions. I don't hate anyone. How do you hate someone you have never met or don't know? That's weird. But the title of her thread was a different perspective. And that is what was provided whether you or she likes it. And for the record, I didn't stay with Mr. Messy, he is free as am I.

[bish]

I never said that I hate her or her actions. I don't hate anyone.

 

Well you did say her actions were evil. Nothing wrong with hating evil.

 

No, you didn't say she was evil and didn't say you hated her.

 

But really, what is wrong with hating someone's actions and behaviors?

[bentnotbroken]

Hate leads me to nasty places. I really don't want to go back to that place. Evil is a corrupter, consumer, destroyer. Not just the people committing the acts, but the ripple effect is devastating.

 

 

I made up my mind awhile ago to not, let hate a bitterness, destroy my life or my children's life. Too bad she is too blinded by this mess to see what is in front of her.

[Cheesecake]

I guess it is too much to ask for some people not to be cruel and insulting. I guess there are some betrayed S's responding to my posts. I understand there being sympathy for the wronged S as I was one myself. My husband cheated on me twice during our marriage. Does that mean that I of all people should not have done what I did?

 

I am not trying to excuse or condone my behavior. I know that what I have done is wrong. I am not trying to justify it in the name of love. However, who among us has done no wrong? I'm sure that some of the self-righteous, sanctimonious souls that have responded have never done anything wrong. I'm sure in their mind it is okay to attack people whom they have never met as a way of working through their own bitterness and betrayal. People should learn not to be so judgmental.

 

 

 

 

 

BNB, if I made it seem as though he stopped talking to his wife as a consequence of our relationship, I made a mistake. This behavior between them has been happening since around yr 5 of their marriage -- not prompted by him but by her. Again, I realize that he is the one clearly in the wrong for stepping outside of their marriage. I am not trying to make excuses for him or myself. It is what it is. Regardless of what she contributed to the demise of their marriage is no excuse for what we have done.

 

Having said that, what's done is done. I can't take it back. To be completely honest, wouldn't take it back even if I could. Does that make me a bad person? I don't think so. Selfish, yes. Foolish, definitely. Evil, no.

 

I absolutely don't understand. I'm telling you that I understand your MM's position, telling you to take what everyone else says with a grain of alt, asking you what you're willing to go through, and you think I'm attacking you? OOOOKKK then. Good luck.

[tanabanana92207]

Cheesecake,

My comments were not directed towards you. I'm truly sorry if you took it that way. My comments were directed towards those that I felt were harsh in their opinions and assessments. I really do appreciate your support.

 

I probably did title my initial post wrong. When I said a different perspective, I didn't mean that I needed a different perspective on whether on what I was doing was wrong. Obviously, I know that my actions are wrong. I do not excuse them. My intent was to solicit advice on how I should proceed based on my circumstances and the experiences of others in similar situations, not based on the morality or wrongness of my actions.

[Owl]

Well, I believe that you've received advice on how to proceed as well.

 

He's clearly indicated that he's not giving up his marriage.

 

The question remains, are you willling to remain with him as his OW only...and no more than that.

 

Really, this is all about what YOU are willing to accept...his stance is clear.

[bish]

Hate leads me to nasty places. I really don't want to go back to that place. Evil is a corrupter, consumer, destroyer. Not just the people committing the acts, but the ripple effect is devastating.

 

 

I made up my mind awhile ago to not, let hate a bitterness, destroy my life or my children's life. Too bad she is too blinded by this mess to see what is in front of her.

 

Ok, so if you don't "hate" the "actions" of a cheater or someone that boffs married people, then what is the emotion that you feel towards those actions?

[Cheesecake]

Cheesecake,

My comments were not directed towards you. I'm truly sorry if you took it that way. My comments were directed towards those that I felt were harsh in their opinions and assessments. I really do appreciate your support.

 

I probably did title my initial post wrong. When I said a different perspective, I didn't mean that I needed a different perspective on whether on what I was doing was wrong. Obviously, I know that my actions are wrong. I do not excuse them. My intent was to solicit advice on how I should proceed based on my circumstances and the experiences of others in similar situations, not based on the morality or wrongness of my actions.

 

LOL. Good. I'm glad. Because my MM and his wife are in a similar predicament as yours (loveless marriage for YEARS)- it's extremely common. How some people on here can deny that is beyond me (or they just don't know a lot of people, I guess.) Things are never simply black and white, are they? As we all know, marriage is not just about two people. It's about family, many times children, shared assets, comfort, etc. Some people can just cut and run but many times its much more complicated than that. Even if there is no love in the marriage, and if there's true love outside of the marriage,its usually all about timing too.

 

So ANYWAY, my question for you is do you think you need some space right now just to figure things out for yourself and what YOU really want since you are just coming out of a divorce? I honestly think that giving him space (NC) will also help him realize what he wants too. Just a suggestion.

 

Also, I think a few other people have mentioned this book, and I have it and it is terrific, but go check out "How to Survive Your Boyfriends Divorce" by Robyn Todd. VERY insightful.

[Cheesecake]

Tana

 

I don't think you need to post any more details, the details are yours and it doesn't matter what they are. The camp that wants you to walk away and thinks that you are "the cause of this marriage's failure" is going to keep saying the same thing in terms of justifying this "so called" help or tough love critcism they want to give you, because ultimately they want that marriage saved even when the people in it might not even want it saved. That's fine but that's up to the two people in the marriage. You are where you are and it's like you said what is done is done. You love this man and you need to figure out what best for you.

 

Eating away at your self esteem and calling you a bad person and making you stew in your "evil actions" is part of the plan that is supposed to errode your selfworth even MORE. The camp that wants to see you happy in whatever you decide to take on in terms of staying with this man or not is going to be supportive either way. They are looking out for YOUR hapiness, the person who came here for help.

 

Everything you mentioned as to why you think as you do makes perfect sense, only YOU know what you are experiencing with this man and why you are where you are. Yes it does help to get a fresh prespective to reference back to how other situations panned out, to other's experiences I just don't see how repeatedly reading "what you are doing is WRONG" or "I don't hate you I hate your actions" helps in anyway or even affect you since you are WAY beyond the "is this right or wrong stage I would assume" . (by the way that is lamest thing I have ever heard, if you hate my actions you hate me because I AM MY ACTIONS) It's like telling someone I like you I just don't like the way you walk, talk, think and breathe. Well gees what's the "me" that you like then when you say you like me NOT my actions?

 

I wonder how many people use that line on their mates? :rolleyes:

 

And I COMPLETELY disagree every single situation IS unique, factors are similar but every single situation is unique. We tend to draw parallels to where we see a connection and perception is that something that looks like what I know IS what I know, but it is not.

 

We are not dealing with the colour of toy building blocks here, where a red block is red stacked upon a green one is a redblock on a green block. We are dealing with humans, complex ones. Every single one of our brains and souls is wired and formed individually and to say that situations are all the same is to say that every single man and woman on this earth also is.

 

The only advice I can give you Tana is LISTEN to your voice. Your voice does not lie, but all the information you will gather here and there and anywhere that clouds your mind will also cloud that voice.

 

What is your voice telling you? Forget sharing more here, what does that voice tell you? Work on that work on truly listening to yourself.

 

Tomcat, your name should be Cool cat because you are a super intelligent person and I enjoy reading your posts.

 

And Tanabanana, I'm here to support you too. You sound like a delightful woman, one who was strong enough to get out of her own miserable situation in search of a happier existence - which we are ALL entitled to. I think you should remind yourself how courageous you really are. I hope that your MM proves to have the same courage as you did, and that everyone involved (INCLUDING his estranged wife) are better off for it.

[bish]

I think you should remind yourself how courageous you really are. I hope that your MM proves to have the same courage as you did, and that everyone involved (INCLUDING his estranged wife) are better off for it.

 

Well you got that right. Her husband and the MM's wife deserve better.

[Cheesecake]

Well you got that right. Her husband and the MM's wife deserve better.

 

What's your story, my friend? I don't have the time to read back through your posts. You sound so bitter and angry I'm guessing that someone burned you pretty bad. And I'm sorry for that. But not every situation is like yours. And you have to get passed it. Is it honestly making you feel better to put other people down in the process? This forum is for support - not for bashing. If you would like us to support you, then spill it so we can help you because it really needs like you can use some. You are in a viscious cycle of anger, which is neither constructive nor helping you at all really. Tell me if I'm wrong?

[Cheesecake]

Well you got that right. Her husband and the MM's wife deserve better.

 

Oh, and don't tell me that I'm wrong. The Michael Meyer's mask says it all.

[tanabanana92207]

Cheesecake, thanx for your support. As for Bish, obviously this person is a little bitter. I take exception to the phrase my husband deserved better. Since Bish is not privy to all the details of my marriage, it is a bit presumptuous to believe that my ex is deserving of anything other than a taste of his own medicine. However, that is not the reason I entered into my A. That was for love and love alone.

 

 

Some of you will be pleased to hear of a new development in my situation. My MM confronted his wife (according to him) and they have agreed that divorce is the only option. Supposedly, he has confessed to his relationship with me. He also plans on explaining the situation, as best he can, to his eldest son today.

 

Do I believe what he is telling me? At this point, I am taking it with a grain of salt. I can't 100% believe anything until I see it with my own eyes. However, this is a step in the right direction assuming it is true. Since, contrary to popular belief, he has not lied to me before, I am leaning towards believing him but not getting too excited at the same time.

 

To reiterate, what he has done, is all of this own doing. I have never requested or suggested he do what he says he has done. For those reasons, I am inclined to believe but time will tell.

[bish]

Oh, and don't tell me that I'm wrong. The Michael Meyer's mask says it all.

 

LOL, getting a read with an avatar from a popular movie? Oh brother.

[bish]

Cheesecake, thanx for your support. As for Bish, obviously this person is a little bitter. I take exception to the phrase my husband deserved better. Since Bish is not privy to all the details of my marriage, it is a bit presumptuous to believe that my ex is deserving of anything other than a taste of his own medicine.

 

BOOM, there you have it. Justification at its finest.

 

Unlike you, I didn't feel the need to give my xW a taste of her own medicine. My interests were better served by divorcing her.

 

Could I have cheated on her before kicking her out? Sure, but I'm not like you, thank god.

 

However, that is not the reason I entered into my A.

 

Too late for that line.

 

 

Some of you will be pleased to hear of a new development in my situation. My MM confronted his wife (according to him) and they have agreed that divorce is the only option.

 

I am pleased to hear that. It will be the best thing for his wife.

 

 

Supposedly, he has confessed to his relationship with me. He also plans on explaining the situation, as best he can, to his eldest son today.

 

And I'm sure he will sugarcoat that and deflect any responsibility he has in everything.

 

 

Do I believe what he is telling me? At this point, I am taking it with a grain of salt. I can't 100% believe anything until I see it with my own eyes. However, this is a step in the right direction assuming it is true. Since, contrary to popular belief, he has not lied to me before, I am leaning towards believing him but not getting too excited at the same time.

 

He is a cheater, which automatically makes him a liar.

[bish]

I take exception to the phrase my husband deserved better.

 

But of course you do.