Retroactive Jealousy - The day I lost the war...

[limitreached]

Well..this is more of a vent than asking for advice. Was it fair? No. Justified? Logical? Rational? Definitely not. I've had more sexual experience and a darker past than her. She doesn't judge me and actually I don't judge her either. I made the mistake and did what so many of us did: dig deeper and deeper into the details once we hear something we don't like. It's not what she did but now it's what I know. A totally tame past: one relationship, a few flings and a few one night stands.

 

Bizarrely enough, it's not the sex with those she liked or dated or even saw a possibility of dating that bothers me. It's the totally innocent one night stands she had. It was never even good sex but the images just haunt me. I wake up and my mind naturally goes into those images, testing me to see if I can deal with them yet and then after it realises it can't it keeps them there for the entire day, teasing me. It's a crazy obsession.

 

It's been months and I just simply can't get rid of the images. I love her to bits. I saw myself marrying this woman and I'll be thinking about this woman for the rest of my life no doubt. It's pathetic and I know it.

 

However, today I gave her the letter in person and told her I can't go on anymore. We broke up and I have to move on, for my sanity. She doesn't deserve this. She deserves a man who can put up with her past or not even ask her in the first place. I wish I didn't know but it's too late now. It's a fight I feel that can't be won. Maybe if it was one isolated incident then perhaps, but knowing the details of so many make impossible for me to shake the images off.

 

I guess something has been learnt though this. I'll never ask of a woman's past again. Love vs evolution is a battle that seems to be near impossible to win.

 

Anyway, those still battling with this problem, do not give up hope. I'm sure every situation is different and I'm sure the majority of cases win.

[Javelin]

Maybe you need to seek therapy?

[limitreached]

Yep..Sure I should have or maybe some CBT or prozac but I really think this is something someone should come through on their own.

 

Can I say as well here that I don't want those reading this to feel disheartened in their own struggle. I feel this is more of an obsessive trait in me than jealousy as I don't judge her and I don't feel insecure against these guys. Maybe more time would have helped but a bit too late now.

[Walk]

I can't help but wonder how this is going to affect your ex. For the rest of her life, she'll see those one night stands as the sole reason you rejected her. She'll be ashamed of them. She'll be ashamed of herself for having them.

 

And that sort of mentality can lead a person to hate themselves. To bitterly deny a portion of her past as evil, or wrong.

 

I can't help but wonder if you transferred your disease to her now. It'll eat away at her. She'll fear telling anyone her past for fear they'll reject her too.

 

You did what you felt you had to do. Even though you didn't try methods that could've helped you. Even though this was solely your issue. Even though you accept your own past without rejection. It seems you believed this option was the best available option.

 

Have you thought about finding ways to resolve this issue for the future? Or will you opt to ignore it?

[Trialbyfire]

I've had more sexual experience and a darker past than her.

This isn't reasonable or rational, to hold someone to a higher standard than yourself. Turn this around a bit. Imagine your g/f leaving you over something that she can't bring to the table, for the sake of this thread say extreme wealth.

 

I can understand people wanting an SO with the belief that sex is something between caring/loving individuals, which is what I believe and can hold to the standard, but to hold someone to a higher standard than self, is completely unreasonable. You know this is within yourself. You also know you can beat this but choose not to. Exactly how does this benefit you now? You're leaving someone who you purport to care about, over something you've done yourself. Are you certain it's not just an excuse? Think hard about this.

[AAlike]

I can't help but wonder how this is going to affect your ex. For the rest of her life, she'll see those one night stands as the sole reason you rejected her. She'll be ashamed of them. She'll be ashamed of herself for having them.

 

And that sort of mentality can lead a person to hate themselves. To bitterly deny a portion of her past as evil, or wrong.

 

 

Eh, not necessarily. I'm guessing that if she thought that this was something that she should be ashamed of or something to hide, she wouldn't have disclosed it to him (although there's no mention of why it was disclosed). There are plenty of women out there that are comfortable with their own sexual desires and casual liasons and wouldn't have that altered by some guy's irrational hangups, especially one with a "darker" past than their own apparently.

[Walk]

Eh, not necessarily. I'm guessing that if she thought that this was something that she should be ashamed of or something to hide, she wouldn't have disclosed it to him (although there's no mention of why it was disclosed). There are plenty of women out there that are comfortable with their own sexual desires and casual liasons and wouldn't have that altered by some guy's irrational hangups, especially one with a "darker" past than their own apparently.

 

He said he wrote her a letter and handed it to her when they broke up. I'm assuming (maybe wrongly) that in the letter he describes how her past haunts him and how she deserves someone who can accept it, blah blah blah..

 

I hope she is confident enough with herself that this guy's irrational issues don't affect her. However, if she loved him, then his opinion will weigh heavily on her.

[AAlike]

He said he wrote her a letter and handed it to her when they broke up. I'm assuming (maybe wrongly) that in the letter he describes how her past haunts him and how she deserves someone who can accept it, blah blah blah..

 

yes, I was assuming this as well...at least he's blaming himself, hopefully, not saying "well, you're a slut so I need to move on." I mean, obviously I disagree with the breakup itself, but the execution was fine IMO - I mean what else can he say?

 

I hope she is confident enough with herself that this guy's irrational issues don't affect her. However, if she loved him, then his opinion will weigh heavily on her.

 

I hope so too.

[Crow9726]

In many ways my recent relationship ended because of the same things.

 

My GF was a very sexual person in appearance...and had a very promiscuous past. She had her reasons and I understand them. However, when she let her issues about sex arise between us, I had no choice but to question the things she had done over the past 10-15 years.

 

It mattered not to me the number...but the frequency and the reasons for her actions ate at me and ate at me. She could never really justify her total indifference to sex inside our relationship. It just didn't match up to her past. Therefore, I always blamed myself...and still do...for the utter lack of sexual chemistry.

 

I have my share of skeletons and have done many sexually sordid things inside the confines of a relationship...always with the approval and participation of my SO. I have never understood casual and anonymous sex...nor drunken sex nor spite sex nor mercy sex. To me...sex is almost sacred within a relationship. Emotional, romantic, passionate, enthusiastic, etc...that's what sex is supposed to be in my world. Unfortunately our feelings and opinions about sex did not mesh at all.

 

As a result it affected my self esteem and confidence. She didn't seem to have many issues with my past, but didn't allow herself to obsess like I did. My subsequent actions then tainted the rest of our relationship, and it ultimately ended earlier this month.

 

I am miserable and heartbroken.

[AAlike]

Crow -

 

Although it is certainly too bad to hear about your relationship, I don't think that your situation is necessarily the same as OP's. If she "let her issues about sex arise between you" and it is causing a lack of sexual chemistry, then this is an issue with the present, not the past.

 

I'm not 100% sure about how to piece it together, but from what you say, it seems that the issue is that you feel that your girlfriend was this sexually voracious being prior to dating you as evidenced by her past, and that she's in some way inhibited with you and it's causing issues. If I'm correct, that is something that is a present issue - oftentimes when you see this sort of dichotomy it is indicative of intimacy or emotional issues. If you cannot have sex without emotion, and she can't have sex WITH it, then yeah, that's a big deal.

 

However, that doesn't really have to do explicitly with "her past number" and from what OP has stated it doesn't seem like he has similar problems in his relationship. I have been where OP was (although not for nearly as long I don't believe), where only your constant recountings of a past that you were not a part of and is wholly irrelevant to your current relationship are screwing up an otherwise perfect situation - and I can sympathize with him - since it's an emotional and not a logical issue, there's no way to "turn it off", "get over it" or rationalize it...it makes you seem helpless.

 

All I can offer OP is that it does go away eventually. Crow, in your case, I think the problem is a lot more complex.

[You'reasian]

Bizarrely enough, it's not the sex with those she liked or dated or even saw a possibility of dating that bothers me. It's the totally innocent one night stands she had. It was never even good sex but the images just haunt me. I wake up and my mind naturally goes into those images, testing me to see if I can deal with them yet and then after it realises it can't it keeps them there for the entire day, teasing me. It's a crazy obsession.

 

I guess something has been learnt though this. I'll never ask of a woman's past again. Love vs evolution is a battle that seems to be near impossible to win.

 

Anyway, those still battling with this problem, do not give up hope. I'm sure every situation is different and I'm sure the majority of cases win.

 

Sorry to hear about this.

 

You have to let go of her past, that fear is irrational.

 

I could rationalize your hurt if something like her former lover called her up after you guys got it on to see if he could meet up with her that evening then mumbled something like 'I love you' but its another that you can't see past any woman's past at face value.

 

Did something like the above happen?

[Alma Mobley]

These kinds of worries and issues will fade in time, as you get older.

 

And yes, if you are prone to these insecurities, never, ever ask a woman about her sexual past. I'm sorry you lost a good woman due to RJ.

 

You mock it, but CB therapy might have helped.

[dazed.1]

Maybe you need to seek therapy?

 

Yeah I think so, that would have been much better, why give up someone you love??

[norajane]

Is this retroactive jealousy stuff mostly a guy thing? I can't recall threads started by women who were so upset that their guy had a few one night stands in his past. There is the thread by the woman whose bf had a couple of threesomes, but that's about it.

 

I'm sorry you can't accept who she is and that her past is what makes her who she is today. It's too bad that you have given up a woman that you care for just because you are obsessing over what she did long before she met you. You did the right thing, though. If you can't deal with it and won't seek professional help, then it's better to break up now than to wait.

[Alma Mobley]

I think RJ is mainly a guy thing, but sometimes women get it too. However, the reasons seem to differ. The men are more focused on the sexual jealousy and not the emotional. Usually, they grow out of it.

[Trialbyfire]

Is this retroactive jealousy stuff mostly a guy thing? I can't recall threads started by women who were so upset that their guy had a few one night stands in his past. There is the thread by the woman whose bf had a couple of threesomes, but that's about it.

 

I'm sorry you can't accept who she is and that her past is what makes her who she is today. It's too bad that you have given up a woman that you care for just because you are obsessing over what she did long before she met you. You did the right thing, though. If you can't deal with it and won't seek professional help, then it's better to break up now than to wait.

I'm not certain if you can call what I have retroactive jealousy. I just don't get involved with men who have a lot of past partners.

[norajane]

I'm not certain if you can call what I have retroactive jealousy. I just don't get involved with men who have a lot of past partners.

 

I think that's different - you find lots of past partners distasteful or unappealing or a sign of character, etc., so it's a criteria for you. These RJ guys are troubled by being unable to get the images of their girlfriends' past partners out of their minds. It's obsessive behavior, rather than selective.

[Trialbyfire]

I think that's different - you find lots of past partners distasteful or unappealing or a sign of character, etc., so it's a criteria for you. These RJ guys are troubled by being unable to get the images of their girlfriends' past partners out of their minds. It's obsessive behavior, rather than selective.

Maybe this is something the RJ guys should consider before entering into relationships. I dunno since I don't have all the answers.

 

While being liberal about things can be an asset, if you're always fighting yourself, what good is trying to be something you're not?

[norajane]

Maybe this is something the RJ guys should consider before entering into relationships. I dunno since I don't have all the answers.

 

While being liberal about things can be an asset, if you're always fighting yourself, what good is trying to be something you're not?

 

I agree - they should be taking their RJ tendencies into account when getting to know a new lady. They don't get jealous until long after they fall in love and THEN start probing for all kinds of little details that cause them so much anguish. Ask up front, and stop asking for details after you know the general story.

 

Also, it often seems the RJ guys obsess over the smallest things. As in, no one but a virgin with NO experience at anything could ever make them comfortable.

[Trialbyfire]

I agree - they should be taking their RJ tendencies into account when getting to know a new lady. They don't get jealous until long after they fall in love and THEN start probing for all kinds of little details that cause them so much anguish. Ask up front, and stop asking for details after you know the general story.

 

Also, it often seems the RJ guys obsess over the smallest things. As in, no one but a virgin with NO experience at anything could ever make them comfortable.

That's the part that makes no sense to me. Why invest first, when you know you have these tendencies?

 

While currently an agnostic, I can respect a virgin to virgin need, if it's for religious beliefs.

 

Beyond that, you just can't hold someone to a higher standard than you hold yourself.

[limitreached]

I don't know how much help posting here is for me but just to clarify a few things. Firstly, this is something that I know is my issue entirely. I made this totally clear to her when this ended. Someone commented that she might spend the rest of her life regretting her past and that upset me because I made it so very clear to her that I wasn't judging her nor do I have a moral stance against casual sex. I just simply couldn't get those images out of my head. I understand totally where a lot of you are coming from, you can't understand it, time will help, let go of the past and so on. It just didn't work like that for me.

 

I feel very empty now without her but I know in time things will be better. For what it's worth, I never want to be with a virgin. For some bizarre reason, it was ONLY the one night stand guys that haunted me. No matter how much I wanted the thoughts to leave me alone, they simply didn't.

 

Again, I really hope those who are going through this don't give up. I'm positive there are options I could have taken i.e. counselling or medication or perhaps even more time but personally I didn't want to put myself through that.

[vonerik012]

No men like the idea of thinking of their girlfriend going home with random men to have sex. I think as men get older, they place less significance on her sexual past.

[Ruby Slippers]

For the rest of her life, she'll see those one night stands as the sole reason you rejected her. She'll be ashamed of them. She'll be ashamed of herself for having them.

 

And that sort of mentality can lead a person to hate themselves. To bitterly deny a portion of her past as evil, or wrong.

Yeah, I don't agree with this, either. My boyfriend when I was 18 crucified me for having had sex before him. He was a virgin and was a total jerk about the fact that I wasn't. At first he made me feel really terrible (he was different from the OP in that he totally made it into an issue of morals and character, and was hung up on the fact that I had had sex at all), but as I matured, I realized he was just a jerk.

 

I never realized how pervasive this retroactive jealousy issue was for men till I came to this forum. Now it's pretty clear to me that this is the male equivalent of the female discomfort with porn/checking out other women in a sexual way. Men see porn as absolutely no threat, and women see previous sexual partners as absolutely no threat. I used to think there was no real equivalent to the porn issue for women, but this might be it.

[Potatocakes]

Now it's pretty clear to me that this is the male equivalent of the female discomfort with porn/checking out other women in a sexual way. Men see porn as absolutely no threat, and women see previous sexual partners as absolutely no threat. I used to think there was no real equivalent to the porn issue for women, but this might be it.

 

Ruby, I'm actually the opposite, porn doesnt bother me at all neither does my boyfriend checking out other girls. I know I'm not the prettiest girl around but I know he wont go chasing after anyone else.

 

The fact that he's had sex with so many girls makes me an emotional wreck. I get these images over and over in my head and what bothers me the most for some reason is he's had sex with most of these girls in public.

[AAlike]

I agree - they should be taking their RJ tendencies into account when getting to know a new lady. They don't get jealous until long after they fall in love and THEN start probing for all kinds of little details that cause them so much anguish. Ask up front, and stop asking for details after you know the general story.

 

 

that would be ideal, wouldn't it...unfortunately, it don't work that way.

 

Since you guys have never experienced this bizarre phenomenon (and no Trial, your screening process is certainly not RJ), I can understand how it must seem both absurd and preventable. Trust me when I tell you that it's not. No one knows that they have "RJ tendencies" before it happens to them...and I have a feeling that those that it HAS happened to will never let it happen again...they'll either be like Trial in that they'll develop a specific line in the sand and make sure that it is not crossed before even introducing the possibility of getting emotionally involved with someone, or they'll just not ask about sexual histories because of what has happened. anything to avoid the RJ pit.

 

As I've said before, there is NO logic, rationality, or conscious decision making involved in the creating of retroactive jealousy. None at all - in fact, it's like the anti-logic, which is what makes it so confounding and frustrating. I could tell myself until I was blue in the face "why do you care, you're making something out of nothing" or "for god sakes just decide to either move on or forget about it" or "god you don't even remember half of your own past, who the hell cares about hers", and none of it makes it go away. and it really messes with you because it SEEMS like something you should just be able to say yay or nay on but it isn't - it completely blindsides you and it actually had me wondering if I was totally losing it when it was at its worst, because it was unlike anything that I'd ever experienced before. you can't just "get over it" or "move on" because it's not a logic or thought-based feeling - it's emotional...asking someone to flip a switch and "get over it" is like asking them to "just get over" grief. you can't do it - it bottles up in you and comes out in weird ways, just like other emotions.

 

As far as guys vs. women - yes, I think that RJ is more common amongst guys, but I think that's because there are cultural predispositions to it for guys that women don't have. Basically there are two reasons for RJ - one is simply the "I don't have the experience that my partner has/if they've slept with X people how can I be special/etc. etc." type that affects both genders equally (as evidenced by potatocakes here). However, guys also get it as a result of the whole "sugar and spice"/sweet girl stigma and the so-called value of "purity" among women...which is total BS subjugation, but it still exists, unfortunately. I remember I went to see some second tier Shakespeare play with my GF a couple weeks ago (Cymbelina I think?) and a bunch of the plot revolved around some guy flipping out about whether his girl had slept with anyone else and whether her "virtue was soiled" and the value of her "chastity" and I remember thinking "god no wonder I'm nuts, this crap has been going on for a thousand years!" I mean, the logical side of me, you know, the egalitarian liberal that still catches Le Tigre and Sleater-Kinney when they swing through town, that guy wanted to say "hey, enjoy your sexuality while you're single just like we do ladies" and apply that same logic to my girlfriend...but the emotional side of me, that I don't think that I knew even existed, was like "but this girl is an angel, how could she have..." yada yada yada brainwashed crap.

 

And that's really what it is - I think that most RJ is a byproduct of a release of newfound emotions....maybe that's another reason why it's more prevalent in guys as we are much more likely to stifle our emotions and be resistant to love as a whole. As such, I do believe that it's something that you outgrow, but not as a result of aging, but as a result of emotional growth. that's why it's just as likely to happen to a 40-year old that's really falling in love for the first time as an 18-year old. and that's also why people that HAVE dealt with the rigors and true ups and downs of love more than once are much more apt to not give two damns about their partner's past versus all of the other potential problems (i.e. god, I WISH that all I dealt with with my ex was a couple of one-night stands in the past!).