Retroactive Jealousy - The day I lost the war...

[norajane]

Your post was enlightening, AAlike, albeit very sad.

 

It's true that when you consider all the nastiness people put each other through in the present, it does seem ridiculous to me to worry at all about the past.

 

And it seems very sad to me that giving up someone you love that much is preferable to working through the RJ issues.

[AAlike]

Your post was enlightening, AAlike, albeit very sad.

 

It's true that when you consider all the nastiness people put each other through in the present, it does seem ridiculous to me to worry at all about the past.

 

And it seems very sad to me that giving up someone you love that much is preferable to working through the RJ issues.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, and let it be known that I did not give up on my relationship and no longer have this issue. In fact, when I look back at the period in which I had the RJ problems, I just look at it as the "downs" of the extreme ups and downs that accompanied falling deeply in love for the first time...all of which has kind of leveled out as "real life" issues have set in and the infatuation period ended.

[You'reasian]

I agree - they should be taking their RJ tendencies into account when getting to know a new lady. They don't get jealous until long after they fall in love and THEN start probing for all kinds of little details that cause them so much anguish. Ask up front, and stop asking for details after you know the general story.

 

Also, it often seems the RJ guys obsess over the smallest things. As in, no one but a virgin with NO experience at anything could ever make them comfortable.

 

Hmmm, one of my ex-gf's had been through several marriages and had several kids from said marriages - so its obvious that baby making was involved, but for some reason I never once got an inkling of jealousy toward her?

 

You can kind of sniff a person out and for some reason, I never once had any issues with anything. We are still really good friends today.

 

Reason for breaking up was simply because of distance and now she is happily engaged and I am really happy for her.

[Spectre]

People, this is why you find out about each others sexual past before you get serious, to avoid stuff like this. If I meet a girl and find out she's slept with a boatload of guys, I know not to get too close. I don't wait till I'm attached to her then try to find out.

[XNemesisX]

Is this retroactive jealousy stuff mostly a guy thing? I can't recall threads started by women who were so upset that their guy had a few one night stands in his past. There is the thread by the woman whose bf had a couple of threesomes, but that's about it.

 

 

NO.

 

Retroactive jealousy is what originally brought me to this site and I am female. It was really f-ing with my head to say the least. It has destroyed 2 relationships. I had to leave my first serious relationship for the very reasons the OP did. Ironically, I also wrote a letter as pathetic as that probably is. I didn't necessarily judge him, but I knew too much and the obsessions were overwhelming and made me feel miserable all the time. Once you know something, you cannot "unknow" it. With my 2nd serious relationship, we were both equally as insanely jealous and unfortunately did not learn from previous relationships to not disclose too much about that.

 

Luckily I FINALLY did learn from those past relationships and how retroactive jealousy destroyed them, to forewarn my current partner not to tell me anything about his sexual past. I don't think he took me too seriously at first and told me a few things that have bothered me a lot. Then I see them on his facebook profile and that is a whole other story. But it could be worse...I could know a lot more and be even worse off right now. I think I will always have somewhat of a problem with it. I honestly don't see how anyone could NOT be bothered by it unless they aren't that crazy about the person.

 

I too wish I could get past it. Time and time again I fail at that. To the OP - I empathize with you. And it doesn't seem to matter if my past is "worse" or not....I don't want to be a hypocrite but like someone else said, it's emotion based which we all know is not so rational.

[c-riouz]

In another thread somebody compared the retroactive jealousy as being the equivalent to women's feelings about porn. I guess it's pretty accurate, but I don't want to get too off topic here, so I'll say just this: The underlying hypocrisy and double standard in this retroactive jealousy issues are kind of ridiculous (by which I mean no offense to the OP, I'm just saying in a general manner). So men get all worked up and insecure and jealous about their partner's exes and sexual past, implying that ideally they would prefer a virgin, or a "good" girl that hasn't been touched by anyone yet - but at the same time they masturbate to porn, look down on the women in that industry, maybe even call them "nice" names such as "slut" or "whore", and probably wouldn't consider dating a stripper, porn star, etc. Those girls are good enough for getting off "on them", but their own partner has to be "holy". Madonna/Whore-complex, anyone? Pathetic. Especially since most men certainly haven't been angels in their past either - but THAT's something completely different, of course. Yeah, right.

[cinderAndSmoke]

Hey,

 

Just wanted to comment on the "hypocrisy and double standard" statement.

 

I am jealous of my GF's past, and as the OP said it's not the sex inside of her former relationships that bothers me it's the one-night stands. My situation is a bit more complicated (I wrote a long post about it weeks ago.. in my case there's a heavy dose of rejection mixed in -- she had turned my advances down to **** other guys ), but I've realized that the jealousy basically stems from the way knowing about these things in her past shook the foundations of my view of her character. (We've been friends for 8 years before we started dating and I'd always thought of her as a "good girl".)

 

In my case I don't think it's a double standard, though. Sex should be about love, and it always has been with me: I've never had sex with anyone I didn't love. If only my GF could say the same -- our relationship is awesome in every other way so it sucks to have this issue.

 

We're working on it, though. I had been quiet about my jealous feelings on this issue for the last 2 years, but they would bubble up to the surface and start fights about other things. So I've been honest with my feelings lately. This actually creates friction, too, sometimes (LOL) but I say to her "I'm telling you these things not to hurt you, but because I trust you and love you and want you to have a deeper understanding of me". I'm trying to pry honesty out of her, too.

[cinderAndSmoke]

Porn is a whole other issue I guess. Maybe I am a hypocrite about that, but the only time I jerk off is when my GF is unwilling . (I want like.. 2 or 3 times a day and she wants to every 1 or 2 days, and only at night.. hehe. Also, for about 1/4 of the month. Seriously, though, I have my red wings from a former relationship and it's not really even gross at all.. especially if you just do it in the shower. She just wouldn't get any licks, ew. LOL)

 

And actually half the porn I have is of my current GF.. how sad is that? LOL.

[cinderAndSmoke]

And actually half the porn I have is of my current GF.. how sad is that? LOL.

 

Or is it not considered porn if you're in it too? Haha.

[cinderAndSmoke]

Well..this is more of a vent than asking for advice.

 

I'll give you some advice anyway

 

It's been months and I just simply can't get rid of the images. I love her to bits. I saw myself marrying this woman and I'll be thinking about this woman for the rest of my life no doubt.

 

My opinion here is that you need to go buy some roses, dark chocolate, red wine, take her somewhere private and get ready to apologize for hurting her! Love is rare, and if you really do love her you should hold on tight rather than push her away. (Of course, I probably don't know the whole situation. Did she love you too? Did you give her a chance to react or did you just blindside her with the break-up and then walk away?)

 

I understand how you feel, how overwhelming the jealousy can be. Every person has their merits and flaws, though. If this really was the only major problem in your relationship than you should have tried to deal with it together. Talk to her. Don't regret this the rest of your life!

[AAlike]

 

But it could be worse...I could know a lot more and be even worse off right now. I think I will always have somewhat of a problem with it. I honestly don't see how anyone could NOT be bothered by it unless they aren't that crazy about the person.

 

 

Now this is a very, very interesting theory that I think would yield some more interesting discussion. Although I don't agree with it, I can completely see how you arrived at that conclusion.

[Ruby Slippers]

I honestly don't see how anyone could NOT be bothered by it unless they aren't that crazy about the person.

I have never been bothered by my partner's sexual past, regardless of the intensity of my feelings for him. Granted, I've never been with anyone seriously who had tons of previous partners/flings/etc. For the most part, I think that of COURSE my guy is going to have a sexual past, because he's sexy and loves sex, like me. I am not interested in being with a man who is not very interested in sex, so it stands to reason that he will have a healthy sexual history. Also, I view it as a good thing that he has some experience and knows how to please me in bed. Previous partners are just not a factor in what is going on now.

[AAlike]

I have never been bothered by my partner's sexual past, regardless of the intensity of my feelings for him. Granted, I've never been with anyone seriously who had tons of previous partners/flings/etc. For the most part, I think that of COURSE my guy is going to have a sexual past, because he's sexy and loves sex, like me. I am not interested in being with a man who is not very interested in sex, so it stands to reason that he will have a healthy sexual history. Also, I view it as a good thing that he has some experience and knows how to please me in bed. Previous partners are just not a factor in what is going on now.

 

You and your rational, adult thinking have no place in a thread about retroactive jealousy.

 

lol - seriously though, I can assure you that most people that experience this problem would probably agree with that statement, in fact I'm sure that they really WANT to ascribe to that same rationale...and in due time, I think that most people get there.

[You'reasian]

I expect my girlfriend to have sexual history - she brings the experience to our relationship and that's a good thing.

 

My last girlfriend had 3 kids and like myself, liked to have sex. We separated because of distance and time apart - regardless, I never got jealous even thru the point that we split up. We're still on good friend terms and I have a great deal of respect for this woman.

 

What I'd dissaprove from a girlfriend are past lovers phoning her while we're in bed together, keeping revealing pictures of past lovers (and herself) and all kinds of crazy-hardcore-XXX-swinger electronic messages...that's kinda trashy and doesn't speak well for serious, long-term commitment...

 

would you want to marry a gal that let 5 guys run a train on her?

[You'reasian]

I have never been bothered by my partner's sexual past, regardless of the intensity of my feelings for him. Granted, I've never been with anyone seriously who had tons of previous partners/flings/etc. For the most part, I think that of COURSE my guy is going to have a sexual past, because he's sexy and loves sex, like me. I am not interested in being with a man who is not very interested in sex, so it stands to reason that he will have a healthy sexual history. Also, I view it as a good thing that he has some experience and knows how to please me in bed. Previous partners are just not a factor in what is going on now.

 

I agree with this 100%.

 

What behaviors would you not approve of, say if I was your boyfriend, involving me and my ex-gf's?

[under_score]

This may be a new perspective as all the discussion here is based on hetrosexual relationships. I am a woman in a long term relationship with another woman and we have been together for nearly two years. My issues with her past came up slowly through the course of our relationship. Mainly because we got together almost instantaneously and have been inseparable ever since. I didn't know her when I met her, and the details came up here and there in conversations and I had to piece them together until it finally exploded one day. It took a a long time to gather that she has had a very long past that makes a couple of flings and a couple of one night stands seem like nothing at all. To cut a long story as short as I can - whether this translated to her behaviour or not - she was abused as a five year old and then suffered another sexual assault when she was 13 or 14. She has issues with her mom and whom she describes as not maternal at all. She tried to commit suicide twice in her teens. Had people commit suicide on her. Abortion, the works. She's had some life really. I can't even begin to imagine. I don't know she's been with over forty people and been in some threesomes.

 

I didn't ask for these details they just came up and she volunteered some of it, usually when she's had too much to drink. I would get very jealous and tell her it's too much information. When I first met her, she used to flaunt her sexuality very aggressively, or tell me about some of her sexual exploits here and there (good or bad) in a matter of fact way. Other times she would tell me "that has nothing to do with our relationship" and become all tight lipped about it. It's like there are two sides to her and makes me feel all torn up, like I didn't know how I was supposed to react. It really affected me and when she saw how much she stopped. Sometimes her story didn't gel, for example she'd tell me a guy was stalking her and when I asked about him the next time she would say try and cover it up and say he was just a 'friend', obviously forgetting what she told me when drunk. Needless to say, I am confused as to what is the truth.

 

When I first told her how I felt she told me that I had the problem. She was very defensive and tried to break up with me a few times but said she couldn't leave me. She was an alcoholic until she met me and now has pretty much sobered up and stopped drinking because of me. We stayed together but the issue plagued me. I suppose I am obsessive by nature and I can't stop replaying the images I have in my head like the rest of you. Mainly with the guys she's been with though I myself am bisexual and granted I do not know most of them, who they are or what happened. My history is tame compared to hers, a couple of guys and mostly girls. I also come from a more conservative cultural background. It's doing my head in. I took myself to therapy and I tried hypnotherapy and for a while things seemed to be looking up. I was able to get by with positive thinking for about a month or so and then she suffered a major depression breakdown. During her emotional breakdown I was looking after her and feeling helpless. I think a lot of it had to do with her past, her loneliness and her experiences. After she got out of it I felt very lost and drained and all my positivity seemed to have been sucked up and away and all my issues have come back in full force. I can't stop thinking about it and I'm miserable. I've thought about breaking up with her but I just can't bring myself to do it. I feel so stuck. I want to get the images out of my head, I don't want to wake up feeling anxious and miserable. I've been trying to meditate, hypno. My therapist abandoned me when I mistakenly missed an appointment and never returned my call. I'm running out of money for this therapy thing I'm thinking it shouldn't be like this at all. She wants to marry me, tells me she's shared more of herself with me than with anyone, she loves me more than anything and she doesn't know what she'd do without me. And I feel it, she looks after me really well too and she's a really different person from the beginning when I met her - I am just ruining this and I don't know what to do. Like sometimes I just feel like bashing my head against the wall.

 

I guess all I'm saying is that this RJ thing happens in all kinds of relationships. I guess it comes down to how I've been brought up. Values. And personal control issues. I just don't really know what to do anymore and I would hate to give up but I sometimes feel as if I'm heading for a nervous breakdown because of this, like today. Our sex life has suffered. She's anxious with me as I am with her. I feel like what someone said, "no sexual chemistry" and that gets me even more frustrated and angry.

[AAlike]

 

I guess all I'm saying is that this RJ thing happens in all kinds of relationships. I guess it comes down to how I've been brought up. Values. And personal control issues. I just don't really know what to do anymore and I would hate to give up but I sometimes feel as if I'm heading for a nervous breakdown because of this, like today. Our sex life has suffered. She's anxious with me as I am with her. I feel like what someone said, "no sexual chemistry" and that gets me even more frustrated and angry.

 

Although I can see how difficult your situation must be, I would argue that this is another case in which the problem is in the present and you are fixating on the past and confusing it with RJ. To me it sounds like your GF is not completely over her own past and that is what is making you fixate on it.

[limitreached]

Well,as we can all see from this thread, RJ is something that is something quite beyond rationale and perhaps control for some people. Right now, I do feel very sad, the usual sadness of losing someone you really did love. It's replaced the obsessions that right now at least feel like they were nothing. However, I do know deep down that these images just simply didnt go away and I woke up every morning with the thoughts in my head and went to sleep every night with them still there. I simply couldn't lead a normal life. I don't know what the hell it was. It obviously wasn't a moral issue as I have had many one night stands and sex for just fun and it wasn't a trust issue as she was loyal and had no track record of cheating and it wasn't insecurity as I didn't feel like any of these guys were better than me in bed. I just simply hated the images of her having sex with some guys after one night or barely knowing them.

 

This leads me to believe that it is some instinctual, evolutionary trait installed in men. It was that realization that made me believe that I could never overcome it. As someone else said in another thread: "Jealousy is instinctual and cannot be overcome". I believe it can be controlled but for me it was way too overbearing.

[Ruby Slippers]

What behaviors would you not approve of' date=' say if I was your boyfriend, involving me and my ex-gf's?[/quote']

I think the only thing that would make me raise an eyebrow would be an excessive quantity of previous sex partners. Without being in the situation, it's hard to put a number on it, and this would also depend upon his age and relationship history. One of my female friends -- the most commitment phobic of the bunch -- told me she's had sex with over a hundred people (mostly men, and a few women). To me, the high number is a red flag, and it does come through in her relationships. She always holds men at arm's length (friends, too) and does not like to let anyone get too close.

 

But this is something I would hopefully discover early on so I could make a decision about our compatibility before we got serious. The sex itself would not threaten me, but I would be concerned about the tendency to hop quickly from one partner to another, as I have no interest in casual hookups. I myself have had a modest number of sexual partners, and I don't see myself having a similar attitude about relationships and sex with a guy who had been with a large number of people.

[orangehose]

This leads me to believe that it is some instinctual, evolutionary trait installed in men.

 

That's probably what it is, unfortunately - an evolutionarily-ingrained trait (in some men, at least). Sexual jealousy is way more of an issue for guys than girls because of the whole 'paternal uncertainty' issue - a man can't be certain that a child is his, whereas a woman can. So it's more evolutionarily profitable for a man to be obsessed with whether his partner has slept around and with whom, etc, so he doesn't have to invest in raising a child that's not his. At least, that's the classic idea from evolutionary psychology.

 

That being said, I did have an emotional RJ issue in a previous relationship, but it was perhaps justified. One of my exes told me a few months in that he still had feelings for his ex, and didn't think they'd ever go away... Our relationship went on for a lot longer, with no 'I love you' from him or other indication of emotional 'progress'.

 

Meanwhile, I was consumed with ruminations about HIS ex, and why he wanted her over me, what made her so great... Justified feelings, perhaps, but there was an obsessional quality about it that resembled RJ. It was torture. Finally I had to end it with him (he then immediately contacted his ex , so I guess my hunch was justified after all).

[AAlike]

That's probably what it is, unfortunately - an evolutionarily-ingrained trait (in some men, at least). Sexual jealousy is way more of an issue for guys than girls because of the whole 'paternal uncertainty' issue - a man can't be certain that a child is his, whereas a woman can. So it's more evolutionarily profitable for a man to be obsessed with whether his partner has slept around and with whom, etc, so he doesn't have to invest in raising a child that's not his. At least, that's the classic idea from evolutionary psychology.

 

While I understand the logistics behind that theory, I really don't think that some guy that's flipping out over his girlfriend having a one night stand five years prior to meeting him is worried about "paternal uncertainty."

 

I really don't think that this is some evolutionary trait in man - otherwise it would happen to all men and no women which is clearly not the case. I think that men are definitely more culturally predisposed to it, but I think that will go away as culture continues to change.

 

That being said, I did have an emotional RJ issue in a previous relationship, but it was perhaps justified. One of my exes told me a few months in that he still had feelings for his ex, and didn't think they'd ever go away... Our relationship went on for a lot longer, with no 'I love you' from him or other indication of emotional 'progress'.

 

That's definitely not an RJ issue - someone having feelings for someone else while dating you is hardly retroactive! If someone hasn't gotten over someone else, then it's not you having a problem with their past, it's them having a problem with their own present.

[InLimbo2]

Surprised nobody picked up on this part. You supposedly love this woman, enough that you wanted to marry her - you are heartbroken, we assume she is heartbroken - all that pain and suffering - because you didn't want to 'put yourself through that' of actually making yourself healthy emotionally and dealing with issues. Although on the surface it's a sad situation, in the big picture she's very lucky to have escaped you - you wouldn't have been able to live up to 'for better or worse' and you'd run if you two had any issues which required you to really work through a rough spot.

 

Again, I really hope those who are going through this don't give up. I'm positive there are options I could have taken i.e. counselling or medication or perhaps even more time but personally I didn't want to put myself through that.

[under_score]

Although I can see how difficult your situation must be, I would argue that this is another case in which the problem is in the present and you are fixating on the past and confusing it with RJ. To me it sounds like your GF is not completely over her own past and that is what is making you fixate on it.

 

Hi Aalike - yes it does seem that it is playing a role in the present but the fact is that my RJ was what started everything. I spoke to her about how I was feeling, was asking questions and generally obsessing about it. Before I said anything to her about how I was feeling, things were fine. She was happy. I was happy until one day I wasn't and three months down the track I was downright tormented. This RJ thing crept up on me. I asked her a couple of questions and she freaked out.

 

After that, we've not really spoken about this - I took myself to therapy but still I was tormented. I was finally feeling better about 4 months after therapy but SHE slipped into depression. So now, it is back in full force and I am still obsessing about her past. I've been dealing with this for a year now. That is a long time ... I really don't know what to do. So whilst it is in the present, it stemmed from my issue with her past so I would argue that it is RJ. She's away on holidays at the moment and think everything is great. But all I can think about is how I can go on ... I'm getting anxious and very depressed and really can't afford to take myself back to therapy at the moment. It sounds really pathetic but that's exactly how I'm feeling.

[xtopher65]

I know exactly what you are going through. I was set up with this girl in April through a friend. We hit it off from the beginning. On the second date she told me she had a lesbian experience before. No big deal. I was not bothered by it and it seemed innocent at the time. As I got to know her I started noticing some red flags, but since things were going so well I refused to take them in to account. This girl had her own fully furnished town home, a masters degree, and was musically talented. It was too good to be true. Before we had sex for the first time she said I was her 3rd partner and that she was in only one serious relationship in her life. I was flattered. She seemed innocent. As I got feelings for her I asked about the lesbian experience. She said it was with her best friend. That bothered me a little, but I was able to shrug it off. I met her friends and most of them were gay, lesbians, and bi-sexuals. That is not the issue because they all liked me and I liked them too. When we would be in the car and passing a nice girl jogging my girlfriend would check her out and stare at her. My girlfriends ring tones were "Freedom"by George Michael and "Under Pressure" by Queen. I started asking her more questions about her past and she said it was expiremental. She told me it was all out of her system, but apparently what I saw was a different story. She told me that she is not in to women anymore. She was obsessed with Angelina Jolie and told me she made out with more girls than guys. Anyways, I went on vacation and these images of her with other girls started creeping in to my head. The thing is that I like watching lesbians normally, but this was her reality in the present and past. When I got back from vacation I needed to get this off of my chest. I told her how I felt about our situation. She denied that she did anything and told me she doesn't even know how girls have sex with other girls. That entire week she was having anxiety attacks. I know it was because I was right in my observations of her being in the closet, but she was living a lie. We broke up and everything was fine with me until those images came back in my head. I did complete NC, but I started obsessing more and more about her sexual permiscuous past with women. I realized I was only her 3rd partner because there was a large gap where she was with women all of the time. She should of disclosed her lesbian partners before we had sex in the first place. She was not honest from the get go. About a month later the thoughts were so bad that I was losing sleep until one day I went to a therapist. I found out I have OCD, anxiety and depression. Anyways, I am glad we are not together because she could of been using me to cover her lesbian tendencies. She is in fact, more attracted to women than men. Now I am working on myself to control my illness.

[under_score]

Xtopher ... what I would like to know is how you were diagnoised with OCD? My therapist asked if I have obsessions and never again touched on that. Do you do things that repeat themselves? Or is your OCD just in thoughts. My issue is a little different in that I am a woman in a lesbian relationship with my gf and mainly I have more issues with her relationships with men (mainly). My therapist suggests that I am jealous of her relationships with men because that is what I want myself. maybe I have issues with men - was in a bad relationship where it was just all about sex - never really been with a man after that but in the past couple of years have been fantasising about men. It's weird I don't understand myself and because my gf was very promiscuous I have been projecting it on her maybe. I understand that it is my issue but I don't know how to fix this. It's the promiscuous sex I mean she's never had a proper long-term relationship before she met me when she was almost 29. Help