Penthouse magazines

[Jersey Shortie]

And IF he's doing that, you have a very valid reason to be upset. But if it's in ADDITION to instead of in LIEU of, that's a whole different situation.

 

It really isn't. It's really just a techniquality of words. Using porn in addtion to a relationship gives the very honest answer that the man is not satisfied with his partner alone. That's a very clear message to any woman.

 

I look nothing like your average male underwear model, but I am not even remotely concerned that my lovely bride will be leaving me for one of them, even if she does like looking at them.

 

I think we can very easily agree that there are some things that make men and women different. Men do not have the same desire to feel or be beautiful in the ways women do. So you comparing yourself to an underwear model as no where near the same impact as a woman comparing to an underwear model. Men do not desire to be beautiful in the ways women do. Women are not nearly so swayed by the visual either. We are not turned on by the male body the same way that men are turned on by the female one in *most* cases. And I think it would be a different tune if women created a whole medium that called men offensive degrading names in the name if heightened sexuality, had fantasy videos about their son's 18 year old friends, the 18 year old male youth group leader that coaches her kids baseball league....and so on.

 

If you're truly secure with your relationship, and truly trust your mate, then them being present while the porn is being filmed wouldn't be threatening, much less simply watching the resulting film. Hell, if you really trusted, you'd send them into the locker room of the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders without a second thought.

 

There are things both people do in a relationship that either makes them feel more connected to their partner, or less so. That is just a fact. Having trust in a relationship is agood thing. But you can not expect to behave in certain ways and expect the trust of an SO to be given so freely when you make no effort to prove your trustiworthiness.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Jersey, I wonder why you continually place blame for the prominence of what you refer to as the "stereotype of female beauty" on men? There are deservedly many women in positions of power in all aspects of media, print and film. There are female publishers, editors, photographers and and decision makers. For example, many of the fashion magazines have a woman's name on the masthead. And yet they don't feature anymore realistic body types than Hugh Hefner does - if fact, if body mass is the defining characteristic, they make Playboy's models look absolutely mainstream. So why, in your mind, is this just another case of "the man" oppressing women ?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

Actually, I think stereotypes of female beauty are both men and women's fault. The difference here for me is I try hard to fight those stereotypes, and it isn't easy and I don't always succeed. But its very difficult having relationships with men that buy into the images of female beauty in turn rather then be on your side, rather vote against you infavor of Playboy and Maxim. So I really would just like men to understand how they contribute to the negative messages and the disconnect between themselves and women sometimes. And yes, there are women CEOs and the likes of that, but I think the over whelming majority is that men still rule in the job market for high end positions. And they certainly rulled the market 30-40-50 years ago.

 

 

I think you sell women short in terms of their ability to define their own standards. And many of their standards are curiously like the "unrealistic" ones that Jersey claims that the "good ol' boys" network promotes...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

And I think men sell women out. You expect us to define our own standards yet you yourself (meaning men, not you speically) buy into the media standards of female beauty. How is that suppose to happen when we want to be loved and be beautiful and special as much as men probably do? How do you expect women to set their own standards alone when men buy into a completely different one? That's a completely serious question. Do you really expect women to do it all alone? To be more highly evolved and take the higher road then men in this regard? Women are suppose to not wonder how they compare to Playboy? But men are suppose to be excused for sitting there and wishing they had the women in Playboy? Come on. I think you are being unrealistic in not giving face to the fact that men and women can effect the other sex by their words and actions.

[LucreziaBorgia]

But men are suppose to be excused for sitting there and wishing they had the women in Playboy?

 

Fantasizing sexually about a woman and wishing you actually had her instead of your girlfriend are two entirely different things. I'm not sure why you think that if a man fantasizes about a woman, that he wishes he had her instead of his girlfriend. Men have come on here and told you in hundreds of ways that it just isn't that way. Men, actual real men are telling you that. So, why do you think otherwise?

[Mr. Lucky]

Men do not have the same desire to feel or be beautiful in the ways women do. So you comparing yourself to an underwear model as no where near the same impact as a woman comparing to an underwear model.

It's amazing how you consistently see men's feelings as somehow less valid than women's. You don't think that men have the same insecurities regarding their appearance? That they're not judged on looks? You have a gender specific view of the world.

And yes, there are women CEOs and the likes of that, but I think the over whelming majority is that men still rule in the job market for high end positions. And they certainly rulled the market 30-40-50 years ago.

As usual, you avoided the issue. Forget the "over whelming majority of men" and look at the substantial portion of media controlled by women. Look at the magazines run by women and aimed at women. What image of women do they present? Is Roseanne Barr their cover model? If not, then why are "men" (as you so often lump us together) responsible for the "negative messages" that you so often cite?

 

Mr. Lucky

[rainfall]

Fantasizing sexually about a woman and wishing you actually had her instead of your girlfriend are two entirely different things. I'm not sure why you think that if a man fantasizes about a woman, that he wishes he had her instead of his girlfriend. Men have come on here and told you in hundreds of ways that it just isn't that way. Men, actual real men are telling you that. So, why do you think otherwise?

 

Of course men aren't going to admit that they would rather be with the playboy chick then their gf. If they did tell their SO the truth alot more women would probably dislike porn.

 

Even if a guy is fantasizing about someone and wishing he had her in addition to his girlfriend that is still offensive.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Using porn in addtion to a relationship gives the very honest answer that the man is not satisfied with his partner alone. That's a very clear message to any woman.

 

Assumes facts not in evidence, not to mention that point has been explicitly disclaimed by a number of men, including me.

 

Men do not have the same desire to feel or be beautiful in the ways women do. So you comparing yourself to an underwear model as no where near the same impact as a woman comparing to an underwear model.

 

While I dispute the notion that men do not aspire to physical beauty (I do what I can to stay looking good, too) anyone who obsessively compares themselves to models has problems not even remotely connected to porn.

 

But you can not expect to behave in certain ways and expect the trust of an SO to be given so freely when you make no effort to prove your trustiworthiness.

 

Watching people get busy on TV says nothing about an individuals trustworthiness.

 

Actually, I think stereotypes of female beauty are both men and women's fault.

 

You are right, to a degree, but using the word fault implies blame. The reason beauty stereotypes exist is that we're biologically programmed to be attracted to people most likely to produce and raise healthy children. That means that young, healthy, and slim are in and old, diseased, and fat are out.

 

The difference here for me is I try hard to fight those stereotypes, and it isn't easy and I don't always succeed. But its very difficult having relationships with men that buy into the images of female beauty in turn rather then be on your side, rather vote against you infavor of Playboy and Maxim.

 

You'll never succeed. It's biological, you can rant and rave all you like, you're not changing biology. We aren't attracted to the women in Playboy and Maxim BECAUSE we see them on the pages, rather they're on the pages because that's what humans find attractive.

 

How do you expect women to set their own standards alone when men buy into a completely different one? That's a completely serious question.

 

I don't. Mother Nature beat you to it.

 

Women are suppose to not wonder how they compare to Playboy?

 

There is nothing wrong with striving for perfection, regardless of if you are talking about physical beauty, intellectual endevors, or anything else in life. It's unattainable, of course, but nothing wrong with aiming for it. One way to know how close you are is to have something to compare yourself to.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Even if a guy is fantasizing about someone and wishing he had her in addition to his girlfriend that is still offensive.

 

And any woman who thinks she has the authority to tell her husband what he can and cannot read is equally offensive.

 

BTW, a recent survey of 900 randomly selected adults showed that over 60% of us are using porn with our partners, and more women than men answered yes. Note that's using it together!

 

It also indicated that 23% of us have participated in a threesome or group sex. That's HAVE participated, not would. Next time you're in a group of people, look around and consider that one in four of the people in the room with you have gotten freaky with more than one person at some point in time.

 

Interestingly, it also showed only 26% of us rate themselves as "very satisfied" with their sexlife, and less than half of us are getting it on once a week or greater.

 

See for yourself here.

[morelaugh]

The reason beauty stereotypes exist is that we're biologically programmed to be attracted to people most likely to produce and raise healthy children. That means that young, healthy, and slim are in and old, diseased, and fat are out.

 

You'll never succeed. It's biological… you're not changing biology. We aren't attracted to the women in Playboy and Maxim BECAUSE we see them on the pages, rather they're on the pages because that's what humans find attractive.

 

I don't. Mother Nature beat you to it.

How do you explain the fact that ideal of female beauty changed so much through history?

 

I don't. Mother Nature beat you to it.

Actually, you are wrong here.

Nature’s way is variety – not perfection and certainly not stereotypes.

In fact, nature's way to achieve ‘perfection’ is thought diversity.

And there is definitely no one single definition of perfection.

 

And I agree, BTW – both men and women buy into it, although men are judged using slightly different set of stereotypes, not so much focused on their looks.

[morelaugh]

For those who complain to their man, you would be much more attractive if you learned not to take it as a threat.

I’m sure you are right.

On the other hand – a man who’s not into porn and other women is much more attractive to me.

[lonelyandfrustrated]

I’m sure you are right.

On the other hand – a man who’s not into porn and other women is much more attractive to me.

 

Exactly. I think what people need to realize is that everyone is entitled to make personal choices. You like porn? Great! Have at it. You don't like porn? Then don't get with the guy (or girl) who has stacks of magazines, and a jar of Vaseline next to his computer.

 

Personal. Choices.

[Jersey Shortie]

Fantasizing sexually about a woman and wishing you actually had her instead of your girlfriend are two entirely different things. I'm not sure why you think that if a man fantasizes about a woman, that he wishes he had her instead of his girlfriend. Men have come on here and told you in hundreds of ways that it just isn't that way. Men, actual real men are telling you that. So, why do you think otherwise?

 

Because they are still choosing to honor their porn in a fundemental way. They acutually have done studies that said men are less happy with their own partner and more negative about her after veiwing porn. If you are fantasizing about something, you do want it on some level.

 

 

It's amazing how you consistently see men's feelings as somehow less valid than women's. You don't think that men have the same insecurities regarding their appearance? That they're not judged on looks? You have a gender specific view of the world.

 

How have I invalidated men's feelings? The truth is men don't have the same desire to feel beautiful as women do. That isn't invalidating men! Men have other wyas that make them feel more like men. Usually it's not found in their looks. I do think men can have insecurities about their appearance, and I don't devalue that. Its not the same way women do and its not under the same amount of preasure. Women don't response to model like men the same way men respond to model like women. That's a fact in most cases.

 

 

As usual, you avoided the issue. Forget the "over whelming majority of men" and look at the substantial portion of media controlled by women. Look at the magazines run by women and aimed at women. What image of women do they present? Is Roseanne Barr their cover model? If not, then why are "men" (as you so often lump us together) responsible for the "negative messages" that you so often cite?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I believe I already explained this.

[Mr. Lucky]

Exactly. I think what people need to realize is that everyone is entitled to make personal choices. You like porn? Great! Have at it. You don't like porn? Then don't get with the guy (or girl) who has stacks of magazines, and a jar of Vaseline next to his computer.

 

Personal. Choices.

Jersey, why doesn't this simple solution work for you? Why not find a man - or a pool of men, if you're not tied down - that feels the same way you do?

 

Mr. Lucky

[fral945]

Jersey, why doesn't this simple solution work for you? Why not find a man - or a pool of men, if you're not tied down - that feels the same way you do?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I would guess it's because she would rather rail against the male species and how disheartened we make her feel looking or thinking about 20 yr olds with fake tits. And if she accepted it, Mr. Lucky, we would have far fewer of her wonderful verbose diatribes against porn. Maybe these porn threads would only have 10 or 20 responses instead of 200 with half of the responses from her repeating the same thing over and over.

 

Plus (and most importantly) she realizes that her dating pool will be severely limited if she uses that criteria.

[rainfall]

And any woman who thinks she has the authority to tell her husband what he can and cannot read is equally offensive.

 

BTW, a recent survey of 900 randomly selected adults showed that over 60% of us are using porn with our partners, and more women than men answered yes. Note that's using it together!

 

It also indicated that 23% of us have participated in a threesome or group sex. That's HAVE participated, not would. Next time you're in a group of people, look around and consider that one in four of the people in the room with you have gotten freaky with more than one person at some point in time.

 

Interestingly, it also showed only 26% of us rate themselves as "very satisfied" with their sexlife, and less than half of us are getting it on once a week or greater.

 

See for yourself here.

 

If it offends my boyfriend because I tell him I don't want him masturbating to porn then thats fine. He can find someone ok with being 2nd, 3rd, or 45975th best.

 

I'm sure many people have been in threesomes. When you are young and out drinking and single you do many things you wouldn't do normally. I doubt 23% of people have threesomes and group sex as a regular event.

 

Maybe if the guys were thought more about their partner then they did about porn and other women then more people would be satisfied with their sex life.

[lonelyandfrustrated]

Plus (and most importantly) she realizes that her dating pool will be severely limited if she uses that criteria.

 

Not really. None of the men I've dated were heavy porn users. No movies, no magazines...I haven't dated since internet porn got so huge, so I can't answer to that one.

 

It wasn't that I sought out guys who weren't into porn...it just never was an issue. I never saw anything that made me go, "Huh?". But yeah, if you hate it and walk into your new BF's bedroom and find the walls plastered with centerfolds, um, just walk out!

[Lookingforward]

Jersey, why doesn't this simple solution work for you? Why not find a man - or a pool of men, if you're not tied down - that feels the same way you do?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

fwiw guys, some of the women out here find her diatribes just as boring as you do

[Jersey Shortie]

fwiw guys, some of the women out here find her diatribes just as boring as you do

 

 

It works both ways..sometimes I find their diatribes rather a bore myself.

 

would guess it's because she would rather rail against the male species and how disheartened we make her feel looking or thinking about 20 yr olds with fake tits. And if she accepted it, Mr. Lucky, we would have far fewer of her wonderful verbose diatribes against porn. Maybe these porn threads would only have 10 or 20 responses instead of 200 with half of the responses from her repeating the same thing over and over.

 

Plus (and most importantly) she realizes that her dating pool will be severely limited if she uses that criteria.

 

 

And if people accepted slavery we would still have slaves. Consider me the Rosa Parks of porn.

 

All in all, your post was not nice. What is your problem? Yes, men looking at 20 year olds with fake boobs while they have wives and gfs does leave me disheartened. I'm sorry you find that so offensive. How dare I be concerned with how men view women in a medium that is meant to deminish women to nothing but a couple holes. Why don't we stick to attacking the issue instead of making personal attacks on the posters. I get you love porn and not my comments on it. No need to make slight comments on me.

 

And actually, yes, I do realize my dating pool will be limited. There just aren't as many good men out there anymore. A good guy is hard to find. A good guy that you can trust is even harder. This is one of the reasons I have a hard time trusting men. Hard to trust a gender that doesn't really value you or only values a certain stereotype.

[sxyNYCcpl]

If it offends my boyfriend because I tell him I don't want him masturbating to porn then thats fine. He can find someone ok with being 2nd, 3rd, or 45975th best.

 

Interesting perspective. Does it mean I rank my dog 2nd or 3rd or 45,975th best if I read Dog Fancy magazine. How about my car, does reading Road & Track mean I secretly hate my car?

[sxyNYCcpl]

How dare I be concerned with how men view women in a medium that is meant to deminish women to nothing but a couple holes.

 

How about you make some effort to prove this statement before just throwing it out there as though it were indisputable truth.

 

Oh, and Rosa Parks had nothing whatsoever to do with slavery. But then you knew that, right?

 

There just aren't as many good men out there anymore.

 

You just finished scolding someone for making personal attacks, and then you throw out this little tidbit. Men who use porn are bad men, huh. Nice. Pot, meet kettle.

[rainfall]

Interesting perspective. Does it mean I rank my dog 2nd or 3rd or 45,975th best if I read Dog Fancy magazine. How about my car, does reading Road & Track mean I secretly hate my car?

 

 

You don't have a sexual relationship with your dog or your car so the fact that you look at others dogs and cars isn't the same thing.

[sxyNYCcpl]

You don't have a sexual relationship with your dog or your car so the fact that you look at others dogs and cars isn't the same thing.

 

I don't have a sexual relationship with a magazine, either, even if photos of naked people are contained within.

[lonelyandfrustrated]

You don't have a sexual relationship with your dog or your car so the fact that you look at others dogs and cars isn't the same thing.

 

Actually, there have been news reports of men who have done both. Scary, huh?

[lonelyandfrustrated]

Here's the car:

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2008/05/23/2008-05-23_man_whos_had_sex_with_1000_cars_gives_ne.html

[lonelyandfrustrated]

And the dog:

 

http://www.kirotv.com/news/10116161/detail.html

[rainfall]

Actually, there have been news reports of men who have done both. Scary, huh?

 

 

Thats kinda creepy. Actually more then kinda.

[rainfall]

I don't have a sexual relationship with a magazine, either, even if photos of naked people are contained within.

 

No, but you do have one with your SO. You are looking at pictures of other women besides her. I understand the two of you have an open relationship so it doesn't bother her that you look at them.

 

However for some women they view looking at pictures of other women as the guy is replacing them for the pictures.