Penthouse magazines

[Jersey Shortie]

Interesting perspective. Does it mean I rank my dog 2nd or 3rd or 45,975th best if I read Dog Fancy magazine. How about my car, does reading Road & Track mean I secretly hate my car?

 

No one said "hate". But it could very well mean a man is unhappy with his car or wishes for that car and rather see different versions of something his car isn't. You will turn around and say "so what". So I will save my breath explaining it to you. I don't think you completely understand how women are different from yourself and how some things can hurt some women. I don't think it's your main goal to understand either.

 

 

How about you make some effort to prove this statement before just throwing it out there as though it were indisputable truth.

 

I don't think loveshack allows you to post porn links.

 

Oh, and Rosa Parks had nothing whatsoever to do with slavery. But then you knew that, right?

 

Civil rights, or the lack of, and segretation are a form of slavery. My wording could have been more accurate here but I knew what I meant.

[Mr. Lucky]

And actually, yes, I do realize my dating pool will be limited. There just aren't as many good men out there anymore. A good guy is hard to find. A good guy that you can trust is even harder. This is one of the reasons I have a hard time trusting men. Hard to trust a gender that doesn't really value you or only values a certain stereotype.

Anyone's dating pool is limited by the filters that they apply. Born again Christians have a limited dating pool. Guys that like football and want a mate that's in to it also have a limited dating pool. Tall women that want a man taller than them have a limited dating pool. And they all solve their "problem" very easily - they choose someone who looks, feels or acts the same way they do.

 

Why not avail yourself of the same simple solution ? Find a man - or men -that only has eyes for you and that agrees with you POV on porn and fantasy. Case closed, problem solved, no more wandering eyes or minds in Jersey's world. Your choice and I - and I assume others - respect your right to make it.

 

Perhaps then you could respect the choices others have made as well. Although that would require that you quit labeling as liars, cheaters and adulterers anyone that doesn't agree with you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[djhall]

Here's the car:

I've seen enough before that I wasn't even surprised until I got to this:

"There are moments way out in the middle of nowhere when I see a little car parked and I swear it needs loving."

 

Ewwwwww. I don't care what you do to your car, but I really don't want anyone rubbing themselves or "finishing" on mine. Is that bird droppings or a dried puddle of ***? Yuck.

 

I wonder if this is going to pop into my head the next time I look a used car or a rental... just how much TLC has this car had?

[sxyNYCcpl]

However for some women they view looking at pictures of other women as the guy is replacing them for the pictures.

 

Well, just because some are psycho doesn't mean you should aspire to that.

[luvstarved]

Anyone's dating pool is limited by the filters that they apply. Born again Christians have a limited dating pool. Guys that like football and want a mate that's in to it also have a limited dating pool. Tall women that want a man taller than them have a limited dating pool. And they all solve their "problem" very easily - they choose someone who looks, feels or acts the same way they do.

 

Why not avail yourself of the same simple solution ? Find a man - or men -that only has eyes for you and that agrees with you POV on porn and fantasy. Case closed, problem solved, no more wandering eyes or minds in Jersey's world. Your choice and I - and I assume others - respect your right to make it.

 

Perhaps then you could respect the choices others have made as well. Although that would require that you quit labeling as liars, cheaters and adulterers anyone that doesn't agree with you...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I totally agree with this, Mr L. Thank you!

 

The only thing I would add is that I can see the hurt and disappointment when someone has MISREPRESENTED themselves ("I do not like porn", or "I will give up porn" then hiding their activities). I personally had no issue with porn because I limited MY dating pool to guys who were not into it, or were only moderately interested - as in, occasional indulgence that did not interfere with our lovemaking - and even mutually enjoyed just for the variety, etc. I would NEVER have gotten involved with a guy who had an extensive collection, etc. Even in my open marriage, my H was only into the "real thing" and I don't recall that he ever looked at porn of any kind. He was too busy actually f**king as many real women as he could. I did not have anything morally against it, it was just a personal turnoff for me, as it did seem to go along with a mindset that tended to overly objectify women (of course when you're horny you think that way, we all do, but as a general way of thinking about women, it turned me off)

 

OTOH, my H represented himself as disliking porn then over time came to use it and masturbation in lieu of a sex life with me. I had MAJOR problems with that. When I first observed it in internet history (not hidden at all), I told him to just keep it from kids. Fine. Found it again. Set up a private login for him so he could use it without them being exposed. But, no, he did not want that, he was not into porn, he was only mildly curious just a couple of times. Sure, fine. He kept looking, our sex life became less and less. I called him on it. He was not looking at porn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (yes he was). He promised he would never look again. He kept looking. Not frequently, but again IN LIEU of having sex with me. I NEVER tried to forbid the porn, just wanted our sex life back. I DID make snide remarks here and there when I was really frustrated...but that was rare...

 

Finally I said, I don't want a sexless marriage, sorry...thus began our long saga back to relative normalcy.

 

He quite honestly does not look at porn at all these days. I don't think he ever felt ok with it, that aspect seemed to bother him more than me. But, now for me personally, it is a trigger and I freely admit it would bother me if he started looking again. I am not stupid enough to think that he does not have lustful thoughts about other women, and if I wanted to sit here and dwell on that, I know it would bother me. But, I am okay with improving our marriage and having our sex life back and I don't intend to look for trouble...

 

But bottom line, guys who say well, I hide it because she SHOULD accept it and won't so I HAVE to hide it...I think they are being unfair. I don't think anyone has the right to make that decision for someone else. This comes down to a matter of respect and deception. I think MOST women would tolerate a certain amount of porn use if a guy was up front about it. I always did, even if I wasn't thrilled about it, I saw it as taking the bad with the good. But hiding and denying and taking away the choice of the other person to tolerate it or not is unfair and it does not surprise me when it backfires...

[Mr. Lucky]

Even in my open marriage, my H was only into the "real thing" and I don't recall that he ever looked at porn of any kind. He was too busy actually f**king as many real women as he could. I did not have anything morally against it, it was just a personal turnoff for me, as it did seem to go along with a mindset that tended to overly objectify women (of course when you're horny you think that way, we all do, but as a general way of thinking about women, it turned me off)

It's interesting, luvstarved, that you would participate in an open marriage but find that porn "tended to overly objectify women". I've never been in an open relationship so I may not be aware of the parameters. To each his - or her - own.

 

I agree with you that anything in excess that causes the disconnect you describe is inappropriate, obviously including porn. A loss of trust is hard for any spouse to deal with, especially when it comes to sex. I'm glad to hear that your M is recovering and I hope things continue to go well for you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[luvstarved]

It's interesting, luvstarved, that you would participate in an open marriage but find that porn "tended to overly objectify women". I've never been in an open relationship so I may not be aware of the parameters. To each his - or her - own.

 

Ahhh...there is a difference. Guys that I have known that were more into porn than I could handle tended to openly leer, talk about women almost exclusively in terms of their anatomy, and did not seem interested in women as ... people. Before anybody lambastes me, I allow that there might exist men with huge porn collections who think of women as absolute equals in general, but in my experience, major porn hobbyists were rather disrespectful in their attitudes toward women. If I had met a major porn hobbyist that was not so, I would have possibly not excluded him from my dating pool.

 

My first H was not really sexist or disrespectful toward women. If anything, he glorified them too much. He was very charismatic and charming and romantic and celebrated every aspect of women and took the sex as just this natural "enlightened" way of interacting with them as fully as possible. Note that this was a two way street, and he encouraged me to explore humanity this way as well. It all sounded great at 19, when I met him. But over time, the reality of jealousy and insecurity and inequality of opportunity etc (as a 19 year old female coed I was rather more prolific than he as a 32 year old male, which became a problem in and of itself).

 

So, it isn't the "really liking sex" part that bugs me. It is the "women are only interesting as sexual objects" part...

[Jersey Shortie]

So, it isn't the "really liking sex" part that bugs me. It is the "women are only interesting as sexual objects" part...

 

That's exactly how I feel about it.

 

 

I love that men can really be into sex and adventerous. I just hate how they can very easily fall into seeing women, or certain women, as good for only the sex and then expect their women to think they are respected. Most of today's men seem to enjoy their porn time as much as they enjoy the real sex time. It's just messed up.

[fral945]

But bottom line, guys who say well, I hide it because she SHOULD accept it and won't so I HAVE to hide it...I think they are being unfair. I don't think anyone has the right to make that decision for someone else. This comes down to a matter of respect and deception. I think MOST women would tolerate a certain amount of porn use if a guy was up front about it. I always did, even if I wasn't thrilled about it, I saw it as taking the bad with the good. But hiding and denying and taking away the choice of the other person to tolerate it or not is unfair and it does not surprise me when it backfires...

 

Interesting post, luvstarved. Another woman made a similar argument in another post. I agree with your proposition in theory, but I think in real life application it won't work for most.

 

Maybe it's worth it's own topic, but do you really believe that men could be fully open and honest about their porn use? It's obvious from the posts on here that (generally speaking) most women do not like it but put up with it to varying degrees, along with a few extreme ones who actually like it and those that take the view that it is completely unacceptable and even lustful thoughts about other woman are as well.

 

Let me ask you personally (or any woman for that matter): In your situation, if your boyfriends/husbands would have been fully open and honest about their porn use up front, do you think the relationship would have ever started? I think in most situation if a man is honest about his porn use up front, the general consensus from the woman will be to judge him much more negatively at the outset, no matter what the extent of his porn use is. They won't waste time with him and go on their search for a more "normal" man. Normal meaning the guy who hides it, isn't voluntarily open about it, or downplays the extent to which he uses it (because, let's face it, most guys fall into this category).

 

Unless every man in the world decided to be more honest, it won't work. Women will continue to look for their dream man who "isn't into that kind of stuff". The honest guys will be alone and the liars and deceivers will be the ones getting laid. Unless you happen to be in the 0.01% of men who never look at porn or think lustful thoughts about other women.

 

I think most men that do lie (or hide, downplay, or aren't voluntarily open about it) do so because they know it can only cause trouble. What possible benefit could it bring? The only thing I can think of would be peace of mind (and of course no p***y).

 

Plus, the reality is once a woman is "in love" with you, she is far more likely to deal with the porn issues than a woman who is just initially getting to know a guy and has nothing invested. I know that is manipulative but I think in a lot of cases the truth is the guy is selfish and realizes honesty won't get him what he wants. He wants the woman and will do what it takes to win her over, and if he has to lie or not volunteer that kind of information to succeed that is what he will do.

 

Full disclosure is nice in theory but I think would fail in reality.

[lonelyandfrustrated]

Interesting post, luvstarved. Another woman made a similar argument in another post. I agree with your proposition in theory, but I think in real life application it won't work for most.

 

Maybe it's worth it's own topic, but do you really believe that men could be fully open and honest about their porn use? It's obvious from the posts on here that (generally speaking) most women do not like it but put up with it to varying degrees, along with a few extreme ones who actually like it and those that take the view that it is completely unacceptable and even lustful thoughts about other woman are as well.

 

Let me ask you personally (or any woman for that matter): In your situation, if your boyfriends/husbands would have been fully open and honest about their porn use up front, do you think the relationship would have ever started? I think in most situation if a man is honest about his porn use up front, the general consensus from the woman will be to judge him much more negatively at the outset, no matter what the extent of his porn use is. They won't waste time with him and go on their search for a more "normal" man. Normal meaning the guy who hides it, isn't voluntarily open about it, or downplays the extent to which he uses it (because, let's face it, most guys fall into this category).

 

Unless every man in the world decided to be more honest, it won't work. Women will continue to look for their dream man who "isn't into that kind of stuff". The honest guys will be alone and the liars and deceivers will be the ones getting laid. Unless you happen to be in the 0.01% of men who never look at porn or think lustful thoughts about other women.

 

I think most men that do lie (or hide, downplay, or aren't voluntarily open about it) do so because they know it can only cause trouble. What possible benefit could it bring? The only thing I can think of would be peace of mind (and of course no p***y).

 

Plus, the reality is once a woman is "in love" with you, she is far more likely to deal with the porn issues than a woman who is just initially getting to know a guy and has nothing invested. I know that is manipulative but I think in a lot of cases the truth is the guy is selfish and realizes honesty won't get him what he wants. He wants the woman and will do what it takes to win her over, and if he has to lie or not volunteer that kind of information to succeed that is what he will do.

 

Full disclosure is nice in theory but I think would fail in reality.

 

This makes me weep. "But you won't let us in your pants if we're HONEST with you!" Boo-freaking-hoo.

 

But nice try.

[luvstarved]

Interesting post, luvstarved. Another woman made a similar argument in another post. I agree with your proposition in theory, but I think in real life application it won't work for most.

.

 

Er, maybe you took my comments a tad too literally. By up front, I did not mean, "Hi, I am Ed, and I look at online porn about twice a week and have a collection of 47 erotic videos, largely featuring cum shots and huge tits. What's your name?"

 

ALL I meant was, to be honest about it. This could mean...not saying anything unless asked, for sure! Then I would say it is up to the woman to ask, if it is an issue for her. Heck, if you are getting that close to someone I don't see why it would be an out of line question anyway...

 

The problem I see is when guys just lie about it to conveniently close the conversation, assuming that it is necessary because "all women will irrationally object to it", and then proceed to secretly indulge, and feeling entirely justified about it. This in itself to me is insulting to women. As you said, most women would not punt a guy with real mate potential just because he has a mild interest in porn.

 

But when she finds the secret stash or whatever, it is embarrassing and insulting and compromises trust.

 

Look, maybe guys are all clods and cannot think of any way to handle this situation other than to lie. But to me, if his use is not excessive then there isn't that big of a problem. It may be true that women don't really "enjoy" hearing it and may put up a minor "am I not enough?" stink...but in the end the stink will be less than in the "surprise" case, and the guy will feel more accepted and less guilty/nagged/controlled.

 

Personally, I prefer the honesty to the lie...

 

I remember stumbling onto some porn of a guy I was just starting to get serious about...I asked him, a little afraid to get indignant, so just kind of teased...then later on, I was like, why do you need that stuff? He made me feel a little silly by just saying, oh I don't need it, I just like to look once in a while for a little variety, I hope you don't have a problem with it...he was so casual and open and unobsessed about it, that I did just accept it and it never was a problem (he probably indulged one or two times a month, big deal. I myself would do it probably once or twice every few months, so I sort of understood)

 

But if a guy is hugely into porn then I think that would be a problem for many women, and that makes it even more important to show the respect to 'fess up to that, and not waste each other's time...

[fral945]

Er, maybe you took my comments a tad too literally. By up front, I did not mean, "Hi, I am Ed, and I look at online porn about twice a week and have a collection of 47 erotic videos, largely featuring cum shots and huge tits. What's your name?"

 

I might use that as a pickup line sometime just to see what kind of reaction I get.

 

The problem I see is when guys just lie about it to conveniently close the conversation, assuming that it is necessary because "all women will irrationally object to it", and then proceed to secretly indulge, and feeling entirely justified about it. This in itself to me is insulting to women. As you said, most women would not punt a guy with real mate potential just because he has a mild interest in porn.

 

I prefer honesty whenever possible. But you can understand why guys are hesitant. Look at the harsh reactions just on this board. You yourself said it bothers you when you think about it (and most women here seem to concur) but you try not to. I think the approach a lot of guys take with porn is out of sight, out of mind.

 

And as I said before, there is almost no benefit to being upfront about it. If there was they wouldn't hide it.

 

Look, maybe guys are all clods and cannot think of any way to handle this situation other than to lie. But to me, if his use is not excessive then there isn't that big of a problem. It may be true that women don't really "enjoy" hearing it and may put up a minor "am I not enough?" stink...but in the end the stink will be less than in the "surprise" case, and the guy will feel more accepted and less guilty/nagged/controlled.

 

I generally go with the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. If a woman doesn't ask I don't tell.

 

So how should they handle it or bring it up? And when? I've never gotten a good answer on that.

 

I remember stumbling onto some porn of a guy I was just starting to get serious about...I asked him, a little afraid to get indignant, so just kind of teased...then later on, I was like, why do you need that stuff? He made me feel a little silly by just saying, oh I don't need it, I just like to look once in a while for a little variety, I hope you don't have a problem with it...he was so casual and open and unobsessed about it, that I did just accept it and it never was a problem (he probably indulged one or two times a month, big deal. I myself would do it probably once or twice every few months, so I sort of understood)

 

Ok, so is that how you discovered it in most cases? Or was there ever a guy that was just upfront?

 

But if a guy is hugely into porn then I think that would be a problem for many women, and that makes it even more important to show the respect to 'fess up to that, and not waste each other's time...

 

I'm sure it would. And if he's really into it, it's unlikely he would ever admit it.

[morelaugh]

So if a woman is not very much into sex, she should keep it from her potential mate until they get married and/or have kids?

 

There is no benefit about being upfront about it either.

[luvstarved]

So if a woman is not very much into sex, she should keep it from her potential mate until they get married and/or have kids?

 

There is no benefit about being upfront about it either.

 

Thanks for making my point...

 

I don't have any issue with "don't ask don't tell" but I do with intentional deceit.

[luvstarved]

I might use that as a pickup line sometime just to see what kind of reaction I get. .

 

Be my guest and good luck with it...

 

 

I prefer honesty whenever possible. But you can understand why guys are hesitant. Look at the harsh reactions just on this board. You yourself said it bothers you when you think about it (and most women here seem to concur) but you try not to. I think the approach a lot of guys take with porn is out of sight, out of mind. .

 

Yeah I am not going to lie! It bothers me a little, I don't think most people like to feel that their mate is drooling over other people...BUT it still bothers me less than being lied to. If a guy is mildly into porn, then I have to be reasonable and understand that most guys are and that it is not personal...if a guy is lying to me, then I have to wonder where he draws the line and whether I can ever trust him about anything...see the difference?

 

And as I said before, there is almost no benefit to being upfront about it. If there was they wouldn't hide it..

 

There is no benefit to the GUY...for the woman, they know exactly the real, normal male they are getting involved with, which I believe is only fair.

 

Honestly, if a guy told me that he occasionally looked at porn, my response would probably be, "well, I don't want to see you doing it so keep it discreet". There is a difference between being honest and being "in your face".

 

 

 

I generally go with the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. If a woman doesn't ask I don't tell. .

 

Fair enough.

 

So how should they handle it or bring it up? And when? I've never gotten a good answer on that. .

 

I don't think there is any need to bring it up in casual dating situations. But when you start to talk about getting engaged, etc...I would say that you should start a conversation about knowing what you are getting into, and getting to know each other better, ask if there is anything about each other that they don't know, make sure you eliminate potential dealbreakers so that there are no big surprise conflicts later on, something like that...and then just say, well, I'm a guy and once in a while I do look at ....whatever. But, I do think don't ask don't tell is fair enough.

 

Then, if it does get discovered, it is fair enough also to say, well I did not think it worth mentioning, and if you thought it was, you should have mentioned it...

 

 

Ok, so is that how you discovered it in most cases? Or was there ever a guy that was just upfront? .

 

TBH he is the only guy I was involved with who was into it. My first H was a flaming womanizer but only cared about the real thing, the guy I mentioned was the second fiancee, the third was bisexual and for some reason wasn't into it, the fourth was from a different culture that didn't get into it...and then my current H, who got into it for a while but always seemed to have horrible guilt about it...

 

 

 

I'm sure it would. And if he's really into it, it's unlikely he would ever admit it.

 

If he's really into it and doesn't disclose then he is being unfair. I am sure a lot of guys will disagree with me, but it is not any more fair to tell her that she has to tolerate it than it is for her to say he has to forego it...

[reddog63]

Thanks for making my point...

 

I don't have any issue with "don't ask don't tell" but I do with intentional deceit.

 

It seems to me to be semi hypocritical. You want total honesty from a husband who enjoys an occasional gander at porn? But he knows he will catch flack so he lies about it to avoid it.

 

You women have no areas that you do the same?? Avoid telling him you spent too much money on clothes? That you go to lunch with a male friend? That you went to a bar with your girlfriend and told hubby that you were out shopping? IN other words, you dont tell ANY white lies to avoid conflict with hubby??

 

Are you holding this subject up to a different standard??

 

Next you will expect him to tell you when and what he masturbates too. Should it only be to the sears catalogue.

[Jersey Shortie]

My experience is that men will often say they look at porn "occasionally". But they usually view it pretty regularly. I think men tend to over -down play porn and their porn use out of defensiviness. And I think porn is a bigger part of mens lives then they care to admit to themselves.

[fral945]

I don't think there is any need to bring it up in casual dating situations. But when you start to talk about getting engaged, etc...I would say that you should start a conversation about knowing what you are getting into, and getting to know each other better, ask if there is anything about each other that they don't know, make sure you eliminate potential dealbreakers so that there are no big surprise conflicts later on, something like that...and then just say, well, I'm a guy and once in a while I do look at ....whatever. But, I do think don't ask don't tell is fair enough.

 

Then, if it does get discovered, it is fair enough also to say, well I did not think it worth mentioning, and if you thought it was, you should have mentioned it...

 

So you don't really want him to be open and upfront, just acknowledge it when he is found out or questioned. Is that correct?

 

I'm just playing devil's advocate, I actually agree with your position, and I would handle it the exact same way. I'm honest about it if asked. But there seem to be a number of women around here telling men they should be upfront and open when in reality they don't really want that. Most guys are smart enough to realize it, that's why they don't.

 

I think most women like yourself would rather have their head in the sand (so to speak) about it as long as it's not a major issue. Sort of like guys who know their wives/girfriends are spending most of their money but try to block those thoughts out.

 

It seems to me to be semi hypocritical. You want total honesty from a husband who enjoys an occasional gander at porn? But he knows he will catch flack so he lies about it to avoid it.

 

You women have no areas that you do the same?? Avoid telling him you spent too much money on clothes? That you go to lunch with a male friend? That you went to a bar with your girlfriend and told hubby that you were out shopping? IN other words, you dont tell ANY white lies to avoid conflict with hubby??

 

Are you holding this subject up to a different standard??

 

Next you will expect him to tell you when and what he masturbates too. Should it only be to the sears catalogue.

 

As long as the lies are little white lies without much impact on a relationship, I have no problem with that. If most people think about it enough they will realize total honesty would not be a good thing. There would be constant fighting and bickering.

 

I think people who are mature know when to pick and choose their battles.

[rainfall]

Well, just because some are psycho doesn't mean you should aspire to that.

 

 

What is psycho to me is that people are in a relationship but they still wanna sleep with others and watch porn.

[luvstarved]

So you don't really want him to be open and upfront, just acknowledge it when he is found out or questioned. Is that correct? .

 

Sigh. More or less. I would want to know if I were marrying a porn addict but then again I don't think I would expect an alcoholic or drug addict, or shopaholic for that matter to own up to their illness either...I'd like to think most women would see through something like that though...

[soserious1]

One of the best things about deciding that you no longer are interested in either marriage or any sort of LTR is that it liberates you from all of this.

 

Making the choice to set stronger boundaries,to limit the extent of your involvement is a good choice, not only for the woman but also for whatever

man she is involved with. If I'm not sacrificing my time,energy and money doing for him instead of for myself then getting hit over the head with the reality that he's openly lusting for other women won't sting or bother you so much. Make no mistake here, one of the biggest reason's my ex's actions hurt so much is due to this, I worked very hard to support us all, often placing his needs above my own.If I'd cared more about me instead of focusing time,money and energy on his needs this whole thing wouldn't have felt like as huge as betrayal as it does.

 

In the end I can't blame him,like any skilled prostitute, he simply took what the market would bear. I was little more than a female "trick" or a "john" and ultimately, responsibilty for that lies with me, not with him.

 

I have to give him credit, he played me and played me well, there was most likely never any real love for me, in thinking back, he was probably never very strongly sexually attracted to me. I was simply an easy meal ticket.

 

 

I've learned though, I will NEVER put another adult's needs ahead of my own interests ever again, as far as the rest goes, I'm going to go with the idea that ALL men view a fair amount of porn and that after the early dating phase is over when a guy reaches for me, chances are pretty good that he's really wishing he could reach for somebody else, I'll view sex as a form of physical release, nothing more,nothing less.