Let's turn the whole porn thing around

[Mr. Lucky]

Pro-porn, are you suggesting that all men aren't capable of being faithful?

Other than "Mental Adultery", what does watching porn or having a fantasy about another woman have to do with being faithful ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[Lovelybird]

 

How might you explain SINGLE men and SINGLE women's enjoyment of PRon ? Who are THEY devastating ? The answer ..

God..................

[Lovelybird]

Other than "Mental Adultery", what does watching porn or having a fantasy about another woman have to do with being faithful ???

 

Mr. Lucky

when you have your spouse and porn star, you choose porn star even you cannot touch her for real, if this isn't unfaithful, what is this?

[Jersey Shortie]

So tell me, JS, what is your solution to the porn problem?

 

 

I have my solution for it but I'm sure you wouldn't agree.

 

 

 

They probably can't perform with their wives anymore because the wife doesn't look like the 18 year olds in the movies - and maybe she won't agree to have her hair yanked, be choked, and wear a skirt while calling him "Daddy" as he ejaculates all over her face while calling her a nasty little slut or whore. So he just beats off while watching some other guy do that to a teenager he'll never know. Pretty sad - for both of them.

 

Sadly, there is some truth in this. But you'll be damned to see any man directly address any negative, cruel or degrading aspects of porn towards women.

 

 

I'd love to see just one piece of evidence that supports porn as a healthy endeavor - for the viewer or the participants. Other than people just think it's fun, of course. Is it healthy? Does it help relationships? Does it improve a man's character? Is it good for the people who make it? Does it benefit the children who stumble into it? Does it reinforce good attitudes toward sexuality and relationships? So just because men have an affinity for watching porn does not mean that it is right and gainful to do so

 

All fair questions. Does porn improve a man's character and make him more of a man or less of one?

 

 

So on the one hand men expect us to put an effort and look our best, and on the other hand they say that they need variety. From a female perspective, sweat pants or sexy lingerie, blowjob or anal - he will still desire another woman. So why even bother?

 

Completely agree. What's the point. We certainly don't get respect, love, consideration, or loyatly for our efforts either way.

 

So you mean we women are expected to be these incredibly evolved creatures who have mastered all our primal insecurities - but at the same time you give yourself and the men who look at porn a free pass to be under the control of their most animalistic desires?

 

I again, agree.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

I agree. I don't leer at women. But do you believe the sexual fantasies go away if I'm not looking or staring? Once I've seen an attractive women the image is in my mind.

 

And once I've seen the image of my man looking at an attractive woman, the doubt about where his thoughts are with her in the picture when he is with me, create a wall of trust and vulnerbility between us.

 

 

 

That's where you're view and mine diverge. What does "purposely lusting" even mean? When I lust after someone or think about f****** her, it is not on purpose. It is involuntary. I might be able to control the amount by thinking about other things, but the thought won't go away.

 

 

This is a case of you not wanting to take responsibility for yourself. It's not your fault, you can't "control" yourself.

 

 

And men don't act on it all the time. You should be upset if he is cheating on you. But not the so-called "mentally cheating".

 

 

 

But, again, we don't have the ability to prevent certain thoughts from entering our minds which can create desires.

 

That's completely false. It's not easy, and it takes practice and you won't always be successful but people do infact have mental control just as much as they have physical control. WHy you would think that you are able to have phsyical control but not mental doesn't make sense.

 

 

So you realize we crave variety. Why can you not then conclude that he will be somewhat insatiable sexually, but that will still be ok? Why exactly does that make you give up all hope?

 

Because we don't see the point in trying if he doesn't want to try. How do you expect women to have faith and trust in your loyalty if you make justificatoins and excuses for behavior that goes against the exact opposite of being in a commited relationship. If you want variet, then have variety. But don't get into a relationship that is about one person and then turn around and tell that person that you supposedly care so much about that you need variety. That's completely unfair and almost cruel. If we get the same result whether we try to make a man happy or not, we have no incentive to make a man happy and even try. That's the message you give us.

 

 

 

Your insecurities are different and far from mastered. Ours is sex and obvious. Where have I stated that men should just go screw everything they see or replace women with porn? I advocate self-control with some room for releasing sexual tension.

 

Actually, feeling insecure about your man's desire to somewhat pursue other women for sexual desire, is very natural and a basic human instict just as sex is. You expect women to control their insecurities but you don't expect to have control over your sexual drive. It's not fair. You expect women to be held to a higher standard then men. And you want us to sit by with happy smiles on our faces indulging you as much as you want to indugle yourself. You want us to think you're wonderful men despite not putting in the effort to respect us.

 

You only advocate self-control to the point of physically sleeping with other women. Everything else is free game. I don't think women are asking men to be perfect. I think we just want to feel like you are putting in the effort to respect us and use self control and show that you care. And I don't think many men do that now-a-days. I'm not saying that men don't care or love their partner. I just find men to be self indulgent and dont want to put in the effort.

 

 

We obviously do realize women care, and many men don't want to hurt their wife/gf.

 

If men really didn't want to hurt their wife/gf, and porn really wasn't really that big a deal, they wouldn't look at porn at all. So maybe men don't want to hurt ther wife or girlfriend, but they don't want let go of their porn even less.

 

 

But an honest perspective. I believe you can be satisfied, just not 100% satisfied. If you believe love is all or nothing you do not have a realistic perspective.

 

We are never 100% in any area of life. That doesn't mean you cheat your partner out of something. When you have children, they won't reach all your expectations. That doesn't mean you rent other children to play ball with just because your son can't catch a ball to save his life.

 

 

C-riouz, throughout your post you keep referring to self-control. While I agree that men should exhibit self-control physically, I feel our biggest difference is you believe that all thoughts can be controlled and reigned in. We can "prevent" those sexual thoughts from ever happening. And I don't believe that is possible. Would you agree?

 

You keep on insisting in using the terms 'always" or "ever". I don't think any woman expects a man to be perfect. We expect respect and for him to at least put in the effort and try his hardest. I don't think men even give that much.

 

 

My wife's mind can go wherever it wants. My only requirement is that her body stays with me ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

If your mind and body make up your relationship and connection, why do you deem only her body as important?

[Lovelybird]

And once I've seen the image of my man looking at an attractive woman, the doubt about where his thoughts are with her in the picture when he is with me, create a wall of trust and vulnerbility between us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's completely false. It's not easy, and it takes practice and you won't always be successful but people do infact have mental control just as much as they have physical control. WHy you would think that you are able to have phsyical control but not mental doesn't make sense.

 

 

Because we don't see the point in trying if he doesn't want to try. How do you expect women to have faith and trust in your loyalty if you make justificatoins and excuses for behavior that goes against the exact opposite of being in a commited relationship. If you want variet, then have variety. But don't get into a relationship that is about one person and then turn around and tell that person that you supposedly care so much about that you need variety. That's completely unfair and almost cruel. If we get the same result whether we try to make a man happy or not, we have no incentive to make a man happy and even try. That's the message you give us.

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, feeling insecure about your man's desire to somewhat pursue other women for sexual desire, is very natural and a basic human instict just as sex is. You expect women to control their insecurities but you don't expect to have control over your sexual drive. It's not fair. You expect women to be held to a higher standard then men. And you want us to sit by with happy smiles on our faces indulging you as much as you want to indugle yourself. You want us to think you're wonderful men despite not putting in the effort to respect us.

 

You only advocate self-control to the point of physically sleeping with other women. Everything else is free game. I don't think women are asking men to be perfect. I think we just want to feel like you are putting in the effort to respect us and use self control and show that you care. And I don't think many men do that now-a-days. I'm not saying that men don't care or love their partner. I just find men to be self indulgent and dont want to put in the effort.

so so true

[Lovelybird]

and another thing, men expect women to be faithful to them, strictly; but they don't do the same thing

[Lovelybird]

a real example of a manly man: Joyce's husband David

[Jennifer26]

If someone you love is addicted to Pron then you can help seduce him back into the bedroom.

 

Not to be rude, but this post is extremely ignorant. Addicts cannot be seduced away from their addiction. It does not matter how hot, kinky, or available the woman is of a sex addict - he will not be able to just break his addiction.

[Mr. Lucky]

If your mind and body make up your relationship and connection, why do you deem only her body as important?

Becuase I live in the real world, not the "how many angels can fit on the head of a pin" world. Because, like me (and you ), her sexuality is both normal and deviant, straight and kinky, pure and profane, comforting and disturbing. I love her enough to embrace and desire the real person she is, not some filtered through my standards version necessary to soothe my weaknesses and insecurities. It can be a bumpy ride, but that's real life. I wouldn't (and what you fail to realize, couldn't even if I wanted to) have it any other way...

 

Mr. Lucky

[LucreziaBorgia]

That's completely false. It's not easy, and it takes practice and you won't always be successful but people do infact have mental control just as much as they have physical control. WHy you would think that you are able to have phsyical control but not mental doesn't make sense.

 

Saying this is akin to saying that if a woman concentrates hard enough, and has mental control she can stop her ovulation process, or control the amount of estrogen in her body.

 

A man can have all the mental control in the world, and it still won't stop the biological process that happens in the brain that drives desire and fantasy. His amygdala is going to fire up regardless of how much mental control he has or how much you would like for him to have.

 

Male and female brains are not the same. They just aren't. The way our amygdalas function in regards to visual stimuli in our brain is different. Men respond to visual stimuli - it isn't a choice. A man cannot choose to stop having sexual thoughts, or filter his sexual thoughts down to just one person, no more than you can choose to stop having periods.

 

Now, that said - a man can choose to not look at pornography, stop looking at girlie mags, and stop going to stripclubs, but you can't control every other outside influence: the cute girl that walks by in tight shorts, the woman with a low cut shirt that shows cleavage, the waitress that leans in and is wearing perfume that fires off that biological process in the brain that floods it with erotic thoughts.

 

Even if he makes a point of not looking, images will still get through - in movies, tv, walking around, in stores, etc. He can't walk around blindfolded all the time. He will see or read things that trigger old memories, old desires - and he will fantasize as such. It won't be deliberate. He can try to turn his mind away from those thoughts, but why should he have to override his natural processes in his brain just to satisfy someone who doesn't like it?

 

You can't make a man think about only one person in an erotic way - even if you take away the porn, throw away the magazines, and keep him away from stripclubs or other places that are blatantly sexual. His brain will continue to take in outside stimuli from all around him and he will have thoughts going through his mind without even trying. He may think primarily of his SO when it comes to erotic thoughts, but what about, for example, if he is watching Transformers and hot little Megan Fox comes into the scene all sweaty and in her skin tight jeans and a torn up tee shirt? He is going to have a sexual or erotic thought about her. Its natural.

 

It isn't 'mental cheating' - it is a biological process controlled by the brain and by hormones. To suggest that one can use willpower to control it is absurd.

 

Now, a man can choose to be monogamous. He can choose to desire only his SO. What he can't choose is how his brain reacts to other outside stimuli. The best he can do is convince his SO that he can, and keep all of those other erotic thoughts to himself.

[grogster]

It should be obvious to all but the most obtuse that this discussion is about male neurobiology, not character, morality ethics or love.

 

But I can write the anti-porn fundamentalist response: Maleness is no excuse for insensitive, selfish, egotistical and lustful behavior.

 

So we go round, and round and round.

[Jersey Shortie]

Becuase I live in the real world, not the "how many angels can fit on the head of a pin" world. Because, like me (and you ), her sexuality is both normal and deviant, straight and kinky, pure and profane, comforting and disturbing. I love her enough to embrace and desire the real person she is, not some filtered through my standards version necessary to soothe my weaknesses and insecurities. It can be a bumpy ride, but that's real life. I wouldn't (and what you fail to realize, couldn't even if I wanted to) have it any other way...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I live in the real world too Mr. Lucky. And the idea of using self control out of respect for your partner isn't an obscene or unrealistic one. I am all for exploring your sexuality, deviant or normal, with your partner. If you don't think porn isn't on some level about soothing men's weaknesses and insecurities, you're not being hoenst with yourself . Because that is exactly what porn is about, soothing male weaknesses and insecurities. And if men are so much about embracing the real person of what women are, they would never create their own fantasy world of super imposed women doing crazy things with perfect 10 bodies. Their fantasy world be about embracing real women. Men don't want or enjoy or embrace real women. You want to act like you are the more highly evovled one here because you are for porn, that's your business. But it's far from the real personal truth we all have. You want to condemn me for naturally having insecurities about a medium that treats women less them human and that men with women that love them use to satiasfy themselves interchanably with the real person in your life, you do that. But don't act like it's so unresonable to be hurt, confused and feel displaced as a woman. You have no clue the struggles women go through and the bumpy ride women take to try and have a relationship with a man. I'm not living on some cloud expecting life to be perfect. I'm expecting men to put in the effort because I would hope they love women as much as women love them. And to really want to respect and enjoy the real person they are as well. Not the porno fantasy they wish them to be or act more like. That's what you fail to realize.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Saying this is akin to saying that if a woman concentrates hard enough, and has mental control she can stop her ovulation process, or control the amount of estrogen in her body.

 

That's not akin to saying that at all. Infact, your reference is rather illogical and I'm not quite sure how you even came to that kind of conclusion.

 

We can train ourselves to have different frames of mind. People do it all the time. People go to school, get educations and train themselves to study. People who meditate train themselves to clear their mind. I'm pretty flabbergasted that people think that mental control is an Unicorn. I think mental control is harder and people don't want to take responsiblity for it. And I'm not saying anyone is going to be perfect. But having the effort there would be nice.

 

 

 

Even if he makes a point of not looking, images will still get through - in movies, tv, walking around, in stores, etc. He can't walk around blindfolded all the time. He will see or read things that trigger old memories, old desires - and he will fantasize as such. It won't be deliberate. He can try to turn his mind away from those thoughts, but why should he have to override his natural processes in his brain just to satisfy someone who doesn't like it?

 

Why should he indulge every fantasy that pops into his head because it feeds his ego? As I said, I don't ask for perfection and that's the base of your argument. I never said that I don't expect there to be times when he does think of another woman or sees a pretty woman. But I don't think men make the effort at all. I think people just go with what is the most easy. I just wish men would use more self control. We live in a society that tells men and women to indulge themselves in their worst shallow needs and desires. It's true for men and women. And it's equally as unattractive for men, when they see women doing it, as it is for women, when they see men doing it. I dont ask for perfection, but I ask that a man do his best. Today, men don't do their best. They sit infront of their computers indulging themseves because it's an easy out. It's an easy excuse. It's an easy justification.

 

He may think primarily of his SO when it comes to erotic thoughts, but what about, for example, if he is watching Transformers and hot little Megan Fox comes into the scene all sweaty and in her skin tight jeans and a torn up tee shirt? He is going to have a sexual or erotic thought about her. Its natural.

 

I never said it wasn't natural. I just ask for more self control. If you choose to be with someone, be with someone. Don't do it half assed.

 

 

It isn't 'mental cheating' - it is a biological process controlled by the brain and by hormones. To suggest that one can use willpower to control it is absurd.

 

That's your opinion and that's cool. But to a large degree, many men out there with wives, girlfriends and families are mentally cheating on their parnter quite a bit. And I guess men expect the little woman to smile and think it's cute and eat it up when he uses her to get off to whatever fantasy he had about someone else in his brain. Well guess what, that's just not cool or right. I have hormones too. Sexual and non sexual ones that I control out of respect for my SO. If I am feeling bitchy, I don't blow up at him and then justify it because it was my hormones. Many women do and I dont think that is right either.

 

Now, a man can choose to be monogamous. He can choose to desire only his SO. What he can't choose is how his brain reacts to other outside stimuli. The best he can do is convince his SO that he can, and keep all of those other erotic thoughts to himself.

 

Then he is living a lie and living a lie hoping to present the image of a man that isn't really there. It's not easy to do, but people, men or women, are able to control themselves mentally and physically. To say otherwise, is lazy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

It should be obvious to all but the most obtuse that this discussion is about male neurobiology, not character, morality ethics or love.

 

But I can write the anti-porn fundamentalist response: Maleness is no excuse for insensitive, selfish, egotistical and lustful behavior.

 

So we go round, and round and round.

 

Do men care about character, morality or ehticis or love? Because whenever these discussions come up, men seem to make exucses for these things because he is a man and he can act on any instinct and feeling he has because it's justifiable for being a man. And you are right, being a man doesn't justify being insensitive, selfish, egotistcal or lustful, do you really think that it should?

[Mr. Lucky]

Originally Posted by Jersey Shortie

That's completely false. It's not easy, and it takes practice and you won't always be successful but people do infact have mental control just as much as they have physical control. WHy you would think that you are able to have phsyical control but not mental doesn't make sense.

 

Saying this is akin to saying that if a woman concentrates hard enough, and has mental control she can stop her ovulation process, or control the amount of estrogen in her body.

 

Yeah, I don't get it either. "Practice mental control"? Is it like quitting smoking? I guess the theory is that you cut down on one erotic thought a day, eventually you won't have them anymore.

 

"Mental Monogamy" is another puzzling concept. How would a woman measure that in her partner? How does she know when he's committing "mental adultery"? For that matter, how do I know if my wife is "mentally faithful"?

 

I've always felt that having a successful real-world relationship is challenging enough. I don't think I'm ready to take on the "mental" world...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

I don't get that if love is about the mental and phyiscal, why the mental part is considered less.

[Mr. Lucky]

You have no clue the struggles women go through and the bumpy ride women take to try and have a relationship with a man.

Why is it so important to you to feel that relationships are harder for women than they are for men? You seem to want to establish your blameless "victim" status in advance - if the relationship fails, it can't be your fault because it's so much of a "struggle" for the woman. That seems an major point to you, you've posted it many times.

We can train ourselves to have different frames of mind. People do it all the time. People go to school, get educations and train themselves to study. People who meditate train themselves to clear their mind. I'm pretty flabbergasted that people think that mental control is an Unicorn. I think mental control is harder and people don't want to take responsiblity for it. And I'm not saying anyone is going to be perfect. But having the effort there would be nice.

I understand that you can scan your BF's hard drive for porn, screen his email, rifle his mailbox, go through his closet drawers looking for magazines and look under his bed, but how do you tell if he is meeting your approved level of "mental control" regarding his thoughts or fantasies about other women?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

Why is it so important to you to feel that relationships are harder for women than they are for men? You seem to want to establish your blameless "victim" status in advance - if the relationship fails, it can't be your fault because it's so much of a "struggle" for the woman. That seems an major point to you, you've posted it many times.

 

 

I don't want to establish a blameless victim status! But when it comes to porn and sex and men, there is alot of over whelming things men expect you to accept. I wasn't talking about other aspects of the relationship. I am sure men have just as hard of a time but I honestly don't understand what the male experience is in relationship. I understand what my experience is. Men don't seem to struggle as deeply with relationship things.

 

I understand that you can scan your BF's hard drive for porn, screen his email, rifle his mailbox, go through his closet drawers looking for magazines and look under his bed, but how do you tell if he is meeting your approved level of "mental control" regarding his thoughts or fantasies about other women?

 

 

Id hope he would do his best out of respect and I would have to trust that he was.

[Mr. Lucky]

Id hope he would do his best out of respect and I would have to trust that he was.

So if, as you admit, you can't know, why make the concept central to the relationship? Jersey, I feel that you've got it backwards. You want to worry about his thoughts and, from there, predict his actions. Isn't it better to look at his actions and presume his thoughts? What's more important - what your partner thinks or what he does and how he treats you? When my wife cuddles up beside me in bed, it just never occurs to me to wonder or worry about what she's thinking. I wouldn't want anything to distract me from enjoying what she's doing ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Walk]

I've always been open minded about a SOs porn usage in relationships. I draw the line when it interfers with our sex life (i.e. I can't get any because he's wacked off to someone else)

 

It still bothers me, but I control that feeling within myself. And I don't attempt to control my SOs feelings.

 

However.. Every single time the shoe has been on the other foot, my SO will get PISSED at me for doing what he does.

 

For instance.. my exH and I were watching Britney Spears (when she first became popular) and he said "God I'd do her in a heart beat". I was upset and said so. His argument was that he was male, he can't help it, biologically he's going to notice other women, etc. etc. A few years later, I commented "God I'd do Brad Pitt in a heartbeat". He blew a nut. He sulked for days. He kept saying it was insensitive and uncalled for, for me to make that comment. He reacted exactly as I had.

 

My H watches porn. I know this. He has pictures of women he jacks off to, and has videos saved on his hard drive. I know he fantasies about other women on occasion. I say nothing about it. He has had videos of porn lying around. One day I told him that while masturbating alone, I visualize strangers f**king me. No faces, no one I know, just strangers. He almost left me because of it. He was so hurt and angry, upset, etc. He felt I betrayed him.

 

Men aren't normally faced with their own actions from women. But every time I've inadvertently turned the tables, they react similiar to how women react. I don't feel men and women are such very different creatures.

 

I think some men get a great deal of sensitivity toward their male ego's from women, and I know I usually go out of my way to protect my SOs ego from damage. He is good enough toward me to protect my ego by taking measures to down play his porn usage, to not leer while in my presence, to sacrifice some of his "guy habits" (strip clubs) to protect my ego. I think this is where the difference in opinion's lie. Not in what men find stimulating, but in how and when they choose to partake in the stimulization. How blatant some men are, and how disrespectful it comes across. Not that he has those fantasies, or watches porn on occasion, but in allowing it to intrude on his releationship.

 

I think porn is wrong when it is predominently paraded around within a relationship. I can't control my H, and I don't want to. He can't control my fantasies, and he doesn't want to. But we each go out of our way (sometimes slip) to try to create a bubble of safety and security within our relationship. That I think is where some men fail miserably. They allow other women to parade into their homes and damage their relationships without considering the effects it will have on his partner. That is when I consider men as selfish little boys with no impulse control.

[c-riouz]

Great posting, walk.

 

Some men only seem to get it with a taste of their own medicine....

 

Here's a question (or two) for the men:

 

Why do you need to watch porn? Is it a need at all? When you masturbate, what's so hard to do it without porn? Why not just fantasize about your own wife / girlfriend? Apparently the girlfriend / wife is not enough, or why else is this outside stimulation of other women needed?

 

Some men say it's only the act that's arousing and that they don't particularly care about the women in there. Is that really true or just something that's said to ease the woman's mind?

[Jersey Shortie]

So if, as you admit, you can't know, why make the concept central to the relationship? Jersey, I feel that you've got it backwards. You want to worry about his thoughts and, from there, predict his actions. Isn't it better to look at his actions and presume his thoughts? What's more important - what your partner thinks or what he does and how he treats you? When my wife cuddles up beside me in bed, it just never occurs to me to wonder or worry about what she's thinking. I wouldn't want anything to distract me from enjoying what she's doing ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

Becuase it's about trust Mr.Lucky. I obviously can't know what he is thinking but I would hope he would make the effort because he thought I was vaulable enough to do so for. If a man is taking the action to look at other women, activity seek them out through porn, visit strip clubs sometimes, and fantasy about anyone from my friend to the girl walking down the street, those are very real actions he is taking that contradict the idea of our relationship. Is treating a woman well defind by what you do infront of her face and what you do behind her back? Is a man a good man if he does these things behind her back? Or is he only hoping to present the image that he is a good man without having to put in the effort? Does a good man watch other young women on film be used by x amount of men and turn around and claim he respects women and their rights and sexuality? Does a good man think about having sex with his wife's friend and pretend he doesn't? Maybe our ideas of what makes a good man are different. Obvious it's important how your partner treats you. But I don't want to be with a man that is putting on an act of the type of man he wishes he was and wishes me to see then the type of man he really is. And while it's important how your partner treats you, I don't think watching porn of women being used says alot about respecting me or women in general.

[LucreziaBorgia]

 

 

That's not akin to saying that at all. Infact, your reference is rather illogical and I'm not quite sure how you even came to that kind of conclusion.

 

We can train ourselves to have different frames of mind.

 

I'm not sure what is illogical about it. A man can't control his brain chemistry to stop responding a certain way to outside stimuli. I was saying that what you are asking of a man is as pointless as a man asking you to concentrate harder so that you can stop the flow of hormones in your body to stop having PMS or periods.

 

You can train yourself to have different frames of mind, but you can't 'train' your brain to respond or not respond chemically and hormonally to outside stimuli. When a man views an erotic image (even accidentally), or smells perfume that smells good to him, or reads something that triggers an erotic memory, a process fires off in the brain that no amount of 'training' will stop.

 

That isn't 'mental cheating' - it is a biochemical response in the brain that can be ignored, I guess - but can't be 'trained' to stop no matter how much you think it can be.

[Mr. Lucky]

Is treating a woman well defind by what you do infront of her face and what you do behind her back? Is a man a good man if he does these things behind her back? Or is he only hoping to present the image that he is a good man without having to put in the effort?

Here's you can tell if he's a good man, Jersey

 

If he:

 

- Gets up every morning and goes to work to support you and your family

 

- Supports you in what you do, even if he doesn't always agree with it

 

- Works hard to be a good father to your children

 

- Avoids inappropriate relationships with the opposite sex

 

- Gives equal weight to your input on major decisions

 

- Has faith in your ability to treat him as he'd like to be treated by you

 

- Sits through the occasional chick flick with you

 

Love isn't a noun, defined by thoughts and feelings. Love is a verb, defined by what we do. No need for you to wonder what (or who) he's thinking about when you can simply look at what he puts on his plate everyday. Hopefully, he'll treat you the same way. Pretty simple, eh?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

It's never that simple. You don't even believe that because you know relationships are hard.

 

Love is a verb, defined by what we do I agree. And I see alot of men that act in contradiction to what they claim they want.

[Dharmaa]

I have enough faith in my wife (and in myself) to give her the freedom to exercise her own sexuality. I'm just grateful that she's allowed me to tag along .

 

Mr. Lucky

Smart man.......

Let me tell you a little diddy about a dumb man......

Just before I met my ex I was busy exploring a bi interest and was in a loosely defined "relationship" with a married couple. It was a fantasy I'd had for many years. I wasn't as into women as I thought I would be but I liked the eroticism of a threesome and the attention from two people was incredibly fun.

So I meet my ex and in the spirit of honesty it wasn't long before he knew of the couple and even met the woman. After we became an item I never met with the couple again as I could tell the female was not attracted to my man and I wasn't a cheater by nature. So my man tells me that his big unfulfilled fantasy is to have a threesome with two women. I thought it only fair to be open to it since I had been where he wanted to go.

Here is where his lack of judgement comes in. While we are reviewing pics and profiles on a swingers site and send out a few emails to prospective women and wait for their replies (these things take time). Meanwhile the ex becomes obsessed and is glued to the computer spending hrs wanking off while reviewing womens profiles. His behavior was a total turn off, he didnt seem to realize that he had an incredibly obligeing woman in me and that if he would not have (with his actions) pushed me out of the "selection" process, he would have gotten exactly what he wanted....... If he had let me take charge he would have gotten all he wanted and then some. Instead he offended me by acting as if I wasn't present. He never did get it when I told him what the problem was. It wasn't long before I found he was contacting women on the website on my computer while I was at work.

A smart man would have known that if he kept his eyes on his own woman and just held on tight and tagged along like Mr. Lucky claims, he would have had the ride of his life.

Men who think only they are visually aroused are stupid pigs. Maybe you would learn that women are just as sexual as you are and if you could somehow learn where and when porn is apropriate in a relationship you wouldnt have to hide it. If we didn't see the worst in you - you would see the best in us. Just my opinion.......

And as someone said earlier, if this were not a annonimous forum I wouldnt have said what I've said because someone here is going to think I am a slut for doing exactly what a "normal" man would do.

[Mr. Lucky]

It's never that simple. You don't even believe that because you know relationships are hard.

Relationships are hard, even for good men and women, but that wasn't my point. The question was "What defines a good man?". You seem to feel that "mental control", avoiding "mental adultery" and practicing "mental monogamy" are at the top of the list. I think that most people would disagree...

 

Mr. Lucky