Let's turn the whole porn thing around

[fral945]

You'd have to threaten a man's ability to please, rather than trying to threaten his insecurity over his looks compared to other men. I think you'd get a stronger reaction.

 

LB,

 

How are you so aware of the way men think? Have you always been this way? I'm just wondering, I've read a lot of your posts and you are very sharp. Your posts are in stark contrast to the other female posts.

 

If you're not already doing it, you should teach a class on male sexuality.

[LucreziaBorgia]

LB,

 

How are you so aware of the way men think? Have you always been this way?

 

I sometimes think my brain is wired more like a man's to be honest, or at least it is as wired to be male as it is female. I have always been this way, yes.

[Mary3]

I just get this sense of : " If he would just not watch pron everything would be wonderful and rosey "

 

Women treated in pron ? If you really watch pron you will notice that most of these women enjoy immense the oral sex on a nice cock for instance. They are going at it for a while , all the while enjoying it , just like you do with your boyfriend/husband. Where is the degredation ?

 

If you really watch pron she is usually red flushed face ( sign of impending orgasm ) she is very wet . she is truly enjoying having sex with this man because maybe it feels good ?

 

Who is threatened by Pron ? Women who worry about it , try to squelch it , unplug the computer, invade the mans dreams and all alone times and thoughts .

 

Why don't you just LET him be a man and have his visual wicked naughty thoughts. He is going to have them anyway. And some men when repressed will STEP OUT of the monitor and go find it for REAL.

 

Please for those of you who dont mind great . For those of you who stress and force a natural thing for man to view pron , and NOW women are enjoying it to , Please..

[johan]

Most guys wouldn't approve. I've known guys who got jealous of their women's vibrators. Or prohibit them from having them.

[Mary3]

Most guys wouldn't approve. I've known guys who got jealous of their women's vibrators. Or prohibit them from having them.

 

Nothing beats a nice warm one , you are right Johan

[Jersey Shortie]

Degradation is not the issue. The point is they can be just as or more destructive to society, especially in interpersonal relationships. How many couples do you know that are negatively affected as the result of obesity, alcoholism, or drug addiction?

 

Yes, degradation is infact part of the issue. How do men expect women to trust them if they enjoy mediums that degrade femininity? I certainly wouldn't expect to have a man's respect if I paid for services that sat around telling men they were faggits that were only good for their wallets. Men feel degraded when they are used for their money. I don't use men for their money.

 

Couples can very obviously be affected bo obesity, alcoholism and drug addiction but this doesn't make the issue of porn in our culture less important. You want to minimize the issue by bringing up other non-sexual indulgences. This subject matter is related to the subject of porn and it's effect on relationships and men and women. If you want to talk about other indulgences, please do. But discuss it in another thread. It has nothing to do with the issue of porn.

 

And do you know why you don't bring these issues up to teh same level and degree that you yoursself talk about porn? It's because, if we are completely honest, porn strikes a different cord for men and women because of the nature of what porn is. Be honest about that much.

 

 

Oh, yes, I watch porn, therefore I don't care about women. What a crock.

 

What exactly makes men less trustworthy if they watch porn? Please elaborate with specific details.

 

Maybe you care about women, maybe you don't. I don't really know what your personal situation is. I do know that considering what porn is, how it depicts women, how men use it; it's not about respecting women or feminity. And I don't understand how men can expect to so very happily support such a medium, while at the same time even thinking less of the women in the medium, but pretending on the outside that they really do respect women after all, when their actions don't follow through with what they would like to believe of themselves. Porn is about disconnection. Men disconnecting from women on mental and even a physically intimate level. That's about caring about women? Respecting them? SHowing that you enjoy women for who they are, not who you wish them to be or represent in some hypersexualized male frat boy fantasy?

 

 

Hate to tell you, JS, but men have looked at porn and used prostitutes to satisfy their desire for sexual variety even before there ever was a media. If such a media message exists, it is a result of those desires and the feminist belief that women and men are equal and women can be just like men sexually.

 

Yes, men have used prostitutes and looked at porn since the dawn of time. But we live in an age where porn is no longer just about taking a peek at National Geographic or waiting for your mother's Sears catolog to come in. It's more easily there in your face, and in the face of your sons and daughters. More men are spending more time more then ever looking at porn. Is that honestly what men want and want to be?

 

You don't think women don't like variety? Heck, I can tell you that I can appreaciate different men. But I don't abuse that when I am in a relationship with someone I care about. You want variety? That's cool. Don't have a relationship. It's simple.

 

I agree. If you talking about sexual thoughts, though, I do not have control over them. It's not a light switch that you can turn on and off and it can't be conditioned. I can tell you I have far fewer of them when I have a good sex life, but even then I still have them.

 

You would have to castrate me to eliminate them.

 

Wrong. We all have control over our minds and bodies. It's a cop out to say otherwise. Why people think that we can have control over our bodies, and why we can have control over our minds in learning new things, or remembering appointments and people's names but that they lack the control to work on curbing their sexual urges, is beyond me. It makes no logical sense to even think such a thing. It's tough for sure, but you certainly do have control over it. We all have control over our minds and bodies.

 

Your statement that you would have to be castrated to eliminate that is immature and self serving. I don't want men to be less of men. BUt I don't think men caving in to every sexual desire and sitting infront of their tvs and computers jerking off to Naughty Nurses says anything about masculinity, pride or respect.

 

Maybe you should cut out women's hearts to eliminate the hurt and pain they feel over men who don't respect them and rather defend their porn then listen to how it effects women. Much like you feel like women are saying they want men castrated, women can often feel like men expect them to be heartless.

 

Again, please elaborate why watching porn makes men distrustful.

 

Porn is about sexual discconection, variety, extremely sexual and sometimes taboo situations about men's deepest desires, and often it's pretty degrading to women in general. Please tell ME how women are suppose to have faith in the goodness of men and his respect of her and her ablility to be able to be open to such a man that makes porn, sexual disconnection, acts that depict women as toys and interchanbable, part of his life.

 

 

Ok, the way I see it you have 3 options:

 

1) Live without a man. Obviously, since you can't meet all there sexual needs, why try?

2) Wait for that 1 in a billion man that is fully satisfied by you sexually, emotionally, and physically

3) Accept some degree of sexual insatiability from men, because that's just the way they are

 

 

Honestly, I don't remember asking what you thought my personal relationship options where. And I certainly don't remember saying that I couldn't understand and accept some degree of sexual insatiability. But I also expect men to try harder in remaining sexual stable. It's really pitiful to recognize that men do and can offer sexual insatiablity but to expect women to smile and cheer him on and support him anyway when he isn't even making an effort, and doing everything in his power to remain sexually secure and stable for a woman. It's weak. That isn't what being a man is about. Catering to your worse base desires and just expecting and wanting women to smile and take it like good little girls who don't deserve anything better.

[fral945]

So tell me, JS, what is your solution to the porn problem?

[c-riouz]

I think it's interesting that folks believe that women who don't want men to get off on porn are being selfish - when getting off on porn is the epitome of selfish behavior.

 

Porn is sex without intimacy, sex without commitment, sex without communication, and most devastatingly - sex without concern for anyone other than yourself. Toxic to a relationship. I just can't reconcile how you're honoring your SO when you lust after other women and bathe their naked bodies with your eyes. Is it cheating? Not in the traditional sense. But it's dishonoring the relationship with your SO. There is an intimacy that the two people in a relationship should share - and only the two of them. That intimacy should be more than just rubbing body parts. It should be a path that runs between them where all of their sexuality and desire flow out to one another - and it should be off limits to anyone else. So maybe you can't help but NOTICE the hot young chick on the beach. You can help STARING, though. You can't do much about the first look - but you can do everything about the second one. It's probably not any more fun than saying no to a third beer when you have to drive. But it's entirely possible. And the only responsible thing to do.

 

Same applies to porn. Because the reality is, we're not in some male-dominated fantasy land where all women look and act like porn stars and where wives celebrate their husbands' consumption of hardcore porn. The real world is a place where a majority of women are hurt and bothered by porn's intrusion into their intimate relationships and their sexual health is eroded by their husbands' embracing sexual experiences with other, digital women. That's what is real. It can be read all the time in these forums (and numerous other forums on the internet as well) - women whose husbands won't touch them anymore, but who frequently pursue porn and masturbate all the time. They probably can't perform with their wives anymore because the wife doesn't look like the 18 year olds in the movies - and maybe she won't agree to have her hair yanked, be choked, and wear a skirt while calling him "Daddy" as he ejaculates all over her face while calling her a nasty little slut or whore. So he just beats off while watching some other guy do that to a teenager he'll never know. Pretty sad - for both of them.

 

I'd love to see just one piece of evidence that supports porn as a healthy endeavor - for the viewer or the participants. Other than people just think it's fun, of course. Is it healthy? Does it help relationships? Does it improve a man's character? Is it good for the people who make it? Does it benefit the children who stumble into it? Does it reinforce good attitudes toward sexuality and relationships? So just because men have an affinity for watching porn does not mean that it is right and gainful to do so. And please, don't use biology or testosterone as an excuse. It's also responsible for creating anger, and there are no apologists for crazed, violent murderers either, so don't do it for men who watch porn. "Can't fight biology" - in the physical sense, no. I can't will my hair to turn purple, or will myself grow an inch. But to blame biology for your decisions to do something hurtful, like watch porn in a relationship where it's not okay with your SO...that's just a cop-out. Biology does not give you the right to hurt your SO and blame it on something other than your own decisions. It's just a childish avoidance responsibility to say "men are like cavemen so there's nothing we can do". While I do believe we as humans retain instincts, we have still evolved and are NOT cavemen because we've developed the ability to control our actions.

 

Just because a man might instinctively notice another woman on the street because his caveman instincts spotted her child-bearing hips doesn't mean he can't control the act of purposely lusting after her or thinking about f****** her. That would make it sound like they have no choice - but they do. Just because a guy likes something doesn't mean he has to act on it and doesn't mean we as women shouldn't be upset by it when they do act on it. Enjoying something is not always an excuse to just accept it. So what if men are "wired" for sex with lots of different women? Men are also "wired" to be entirely selfish and territorial. If you obey your biological blueprint, your character won't change from infancy to adulthood. Oddly enough, when we revert and act selfishly in other areas, we're pretty quick to apologize. But when you want to curl up with a good pornographic website, you stand defensively and point to your DNA. It really seems silly to me. The supreme difference betweek people and animals is that we have been given the capacity to reign ourselves in. We have the ability to become educated and exercise self-discipline - so that we control our urges, rather than our urges controlling us.

 

You do yourself NO favors when you quit holding yourself accountable and give in to your every whim and urge. You show your love for your children when you maintain boundaries that protect them - do the same for yourself. Men do NOT need porn, and most definitely women do NOT need to recreate porn in the bedroom to keep their husbands off the computer. If I felt that I had to twist myself into some semblance of a pornographic fantasy of his in order to pull him away from porn, that would be even more demeaning to me. When women try to compete with the porn, they fail because they are trying to hit a moving target. When one fantasy becomes reality, we create another fantasy. Porn feeds an insatiable desire, that's why doing things for your SO he's seen in porn won't work. Men in this thread have admitted it - they crave variety. So on the one hand men expect us to put an effort and look our best, and on the other hand they say that they need variety. From a female perspective, sweat pants or sexy lingerie, blowjob or anal - he will still desire another woman. So why even bother?

 

I expect the women to accept that fact that she can't fully please a man but will still love her man and try to please him sexually. Why is it so difficult for you (and other women like you) to accept reality? You don't have to be everything to a man.

 

So you mean we women are expected to be these incredibly evolved creatures who have mastered all our primal insecurities - but at the same time you give yourself and the men who look at porn a free pass to be under the control of their most animalistic desires? Once again the typical hypocrisy and double standard... It often seems to be concluded that women who desire a porn-free relationship are living in a fantasy world and that they should change. But I often wonder why it's not you, and others like you, who live in a fantasy world in which women don't care about porn (this seems to be the unrealistic proposal, not the opposite). And why it is that you shouldn't change. What makes your views more "real" or "valid" than those of the women who wish to be in a relationship where they are the one and only to their SO?

 

I'm always amused by the nonsense folks like you spout of the necessity of "fantasy" in marital or other serious monogamous relationships. Built into this is the assumption that one cannot really be satisfied with one person, that one cannot ever really devote all of one's intimate emotion and energy to one person. There is always the need to at least pretend that one is having sex with other people, or to get stimulated by watching other people have sex.

 

What a miserable, paltry, alienated perspective on human love.

[grogster]

I'm always amused by the nonsense folks like you spout of the necessity of "fantasy" in marital or other serious monogamous relationships. Built into this is the assumption that one cannot really be satisfied with one person, that one cannot ever really devote all of one's intimate emotion and energy to one person. There is always the need to at least pretend that one is having sex with other people, or to get stimulated by watching other people have sex.

That's reality for about 99% of the adult sexual population. It's only that 1% who post here.

 

What a miserable, paltry, alienated perspective on human love.

Your speaking not of erotic love between two consenting adults but of control, domination and the suppression of the erotic. Your "love" is a barren landscape.

 

It's not "porn" that the anti-porn fundamentalists seek to abolish. Their War is against Eros.

[fral945]

Ok, c-riouz, I'll try to persuade you again.

 

ISo maybe you can't help but NOTICE the hot young chick on the beach. You can help STARING, though. You can't do much about the first look - but you can do everything about the second one. It's probably not any more fun than saying no to a third beer when you have to drive. But it's entirely possible. And the only responsible thing to do.

 

I agree. I don't leer at women. But do you believe the sexual fantasies go away if I'm not looking or staring? Once I've seen an attractive women the image is in my mind.

 

While I do believe we as humans retain instincts, we have still evolved and are NOT cavemen because we've developed the ability to control our actions.

 

Agreed. But not our thoughts and desires. Do you disagree with that?

 

Just because a man might instinctively notice another woman on the street because his caveman instincts spotted her child-bearing hips doesn't mean he can't control the act of purposely lusting after her or thinking about f****** her.

 

That's where you're view and mine diverge. What does "purposely lusting" even mean? When I lust after someone or think about f****** her, it is not on purpose. It is involuntary. I might be able to control the amount by thinking about other things, but the thought won't go away.

 

 

ust because a guy likes something doesn't mean he has to act on it and doesn't mean we as women shouldn't be upset by it when they do act on it.

 

And men don't act on it all the time. You should be upset if he is cheating on you. But not the so-called "mentally cheating".

 

 

The supreme difference betweek people and animals is that we have been given the capacity to reign ourselves in. We have the ability to become educated and exercise self-discipline - so that we control our urges, rather than our urges controlling us.

 

But, again, we don't have the ability to prevent certain thoughts from entering our minds which can create desires.

 

Men in this thread have admitted it - they crave variety. So on the one hand men expect us to put an effort and look our best, and on the other hand they say that they need variety. From a female perspective, sweat pants or sexy lingerie, blowjob or anal - he will still desire another woman. So why even bother?

 

So you realize we crave variety. Why can you not then conclude that he will be somewhat insatiable sexually, but that will still be ok? Why exactly does that make you give up all hope?

 

So you mean we women are expected to be these incredibly evolved creatures who have mastered all our primal insecurities - but at the same time you give yourself and the men who look at porn a free pass to be under the control of their most animalistic desires?

 

Your insecurities are different and far from mastered. Ours is sex and obvious. Where have I stated that men should just go screw everything they see or replace women with porn? I advocate self-control with some room for releasing sexual tension.

 

But I often wonder why it's not you, and others like you, who live in a fantasy world in which women don't care about porn (this seems to be the unrealistic proposal, not the opposite).

 

So if men really believe women don't care about porn, why do so many hide it? We obviously do realize women care, and many men don't want to hurt their wife/gf.

 

Built into this is the assumption that one cannot really be satisfied with one person, that one cannot ever really devote all of one's intimate emotion and energy to one person. There is always the need to at least pretend that one is having sex with other people, or to get stimulated by watching other people have sex.

 

What a miserable, paltry, alienated perspective on human love.

 

But an honest perspective. I believe you can be satisfied, just not 100% satisfied. If you believe love is all or nothing you do not have a realistic perspective.

 

C-riouz, throughout your post you keep referring to self-control. While I agree that men should exhibit self-control physically, I feel our biggest difference is you believe that all thoughts can be controlled and reigned in. We can "prevent" those sexual thoughts from ever happening. And I don't believe that is possible. Would you agree?

[Mr. Lucky]

And please, don't use biology or testosterone as an excuse. It's also responsible for creating anger, and there are no apologists for crazed, violent murderers either, so don't do it for men who watch porn.

And, in a nutshell, this is what is so offensively misogynistic about your point of view. Biology and testosterone are what makes us men. And yep, that package brings an array of qualities, anger sometimes included. You can spend all day wishing we were more like you - more feminine, nurturing, "mentally monogamous", etc. Just be careful what you wish for...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mr. Lucky]

I just can't reconcile how you're honoring your SO when you lust after other women and bathe their naked bodies with your eyes. Is it cheating? Not in the traditional sense. But it's dishonoring the relationship with your SO. There is an intimacy that the two people in a relationship should share - and only the two of them. That intimacy should be more than just rubbing body parts. It should be a path that runs between them where all of their sexuality and desire flow out to one another - and it should be off limits to anyone else. So maybe you can't help but NOTICE the hot young chick on the beach. You can help STARING, though. You can't do much about the first look - but you can do everything about the second one.

There is a male equivalent to this neurotic preoccupation you have with what's going on in your partner's mind and that is the self-centered hang-up some men have with their partner's sexual history. Like you, their preference is for a virginal state, physical in their world and mental in yours. They spout much of the same nonsense about "a path that runs between them where all of their sexuality and desire flow out to one another - and it should be off limits to anyone else". The insecurities apparent in their self-centered point of view - Am I good enough? How do I compare? What does my partner think? - are also the basis for this ridiculous desire for "mental mongamy".

 

Tell me c-riouz, is it really that hard to figure out whether or not your man really loves you? And is purity of thought the gold standard you look for in a potential mate? And that's measured how exactly?

 

My wife's mind can go wherever it wants. My only requirement is that her body stays with me ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[soserious1]

There is a male equivalent to this neurotic preoccupation you have with what's going on in your partner's mind and that is the self-centered hang-up some men have with their partner's sexual history. Like you, their preference is for a virginal state, physical in their world and mental in yours. They spout much of the same nonsense about "a path that runs between them where all of their sexuality and desire flow out to one another - and it should be off limits to anyone else". The insecurities apparent in their self-centered point of view - Am I good enough? How do I compare? What does my partner think? - are also the basis for this ridiculous desire for "mental mongamy".

 

Tell me c-riouz, is it really that hard to figure out whether or not your man really loves you? And is purity of thought the gold standard you look for in a potential mate? And that's measured how exactly?

 

My wife's mind can go wherever it wants. My only requirement is that her body stays with me ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

I learned very painfully that no, my partner didn't love me, that porn and ogling young women openly was preferable to being intimate with me in every single way.And I didn't need to read his mind or police his computer to find this out,he had no problems flat out telling me.

 

My husband didn't want me to stray either.. the thought of somebody else boning me didn't bother him, but the thought that somebody else might get his hands on my paycheck,ending his free ride sure did.

 

In the end,I was a cum rag, a series of moist holes to dump loads of man yogurt into that he wanted to give to other women.I was also a meal ticket.

 

I've learned my lesson about what men want very clearly. I don't expect fidelity,loyalty or devotion of any sort ,in fact I expect nothing from men at all.

[Mr. Lucky]

I expect nothing from men at all.

Then I guess you'll never be disappointed. Sounds like just about as much fun and rewarding as the search for a man that has never thought or fantisized about another woman would be...

 

Mr. Lucky

[soserious1]

Then I guess you'll never be disappointed. Sounds like just about as much fun and rewarding as the search for a man that has never thought or fantisized about another woman would be...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Lol,I have no intentions of "searching" for another man. I've concluded that the cost of what men expect from women far,far exceeds whatever they might be offering in exchange.

 

So my ex is free to surf porn sites and stalk craig's list to his heart's content...on my dollar. I won't be replacing him.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Not all men are like that. It is a shame your ex tainted your view of men in that way. I hope that one day you can come to terms with how he made you feel, and get your head and heart back together. There are some great guys out there. Right now may not be the best time to consider looking for one, but one day perhaps a good one will come looking for you.

[soserious1]

Not all men are like that. It is a shame your ex tainted your view of men in that way. I hope that one day you can come to terms with how he made you feel, and get your head and heart back together. There are some great guys out there. Right now may not be the best time to consider looking for one, but one day perhaps a good one will come looking for you.

 

All I want at this point is my soon to be is to take his man yogurt and his alimony check and to go far,far away. I'm not interested in pursuing or in being pursued again, if I have any sexual urges that a vibrator can't handle I'd rather pay a male prostitute than date again.Men can remain totally free then to think about,ogle, stare at,comment about, masterbate to and actively seek out whatever woman they wish and I won't be handed the bills for it.

[c-riouz]

http://www.wadeyoung.com/writings/sexual-fantasy.html

[Trialbyfire]

I learned very painfully that no, my partner didn't love me, that porn and ogling young women openly was preferable to being intimate with me in every single way.And I didn't need to read his mind or police his computer to find this out,he had no problems flat out telling me.

 

My husband didn't want me to stray either.. the thought of somebody else boning me didn't bother him, but the thought that somebody else might get his hands on my paycheck,ending his free ride sure did.

 

In the end,I was a cum rag, a series of moist holes to dump loads of man yogurt into that he wanted to give to other women.I was also a meal ticket.

 

I've learned my lesson about what men want very clearly. I don't expect fidelity,loyalty or devotion of any sort ,in fact I expect nothing from men at all.

soserious, not every man is like this. There's a large portion of the population that aren't. Try not to allow an incredible jerk like this, pollute your entire life. ((hugs))

[Mr. Lucky]

http://www.wadeyoung.com/writings/sexual-fantasy.html

I got as far as the title:

 

"Sexual Fantasy ... The Everyman's Mental Adultery"

 

C-riouz, if I have a sexual fantasy about you without your permission, am I guilty of Mental Sexual Assault?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mary3]

I think it's interesting that folks believe that women who don't want men to get off on porn are being selfish - when getting off on porn is the epitome of selfish behavior.

 

Porn is sex without intimacy, sex without commitment, sex without communication, and most devastatingly - sex without concern for anyone other than yourself. Toxic to a relationship. I just can't reconcile how you're honoring your SO when you lust after other women and bathe their naked bodies with your eyes. Is it cheating? Not in the traditional sense. But it's dishonoring the relationship with your SO. There is an intimacy that the two people in a relationship should share - and only the two of them. That intimacy should be more than just rubbing body parts. It should be a path that runs between them where all of their sexuality and desire flow out to one another - and it should be off limits to anyone else. So maybe you can't help but NOTICE the hot young chick on the beach. You can help STARING, though. You can't do much about the first look - but you can do everything about the second one. It's probably not any more fun than saying no to a third beer when you have to drive. But it's entirely possible. And the only responsible thing to do.

 

Same applies to porn. Because the reality is, we're not in some male-dominated fantasy land where all women look and act like porn stars and where wives celebrate their husbands' consumption of hardcore porn. The real world is a place where a majority of women are hurt and bothered by porn's intrusion into their intimate relationships and their sexual health is eroded by their husbands' embracing sexual experiences with other, digital women. That's what is real. It can be read all the time in these forums (and numerous other forums on the internet as well) - women whose husbands won't touch them anymore, but who frequently pursue porn and masturbate all the time. They probably can't perform with their wives anymore because the wife doesn't look like the 18 year olds in the movies - and maybe she won't agree to have her hair yanked, be choked, and wear a skirt while calling him "Daddy" as he ejaculates all over her face while calling her a nasty little slut or whore. So he just beats off while watching some other guy do that to a teenager he'll never know. Pretty sad - for both of them.

 

I'd love to see just one piece of evidence that supports porn as a healthy endeavor - for the viewer or the participants. Other than people just think it's fun, of course. Is it healthy? Does it help relationships? Does it improve a man's character? Is it good for the people who make it? Does it benefit the children who stumble into it? Does it reinforce good attitudes toward sexuality and relationships? So just because men have an affinity for watching porn does not mean that it is right and gainful to do so. And please, don't use biology or testosterone as an excuse. It's also responsible for creating anger, and there are no apologists for crazed, violent murderers either, so don't do it for men who watch porn. "Can't fight biology" - in the physical sense, no. I can't will my hair to turn purple, or will myself grow an inch. But to blame biology for your decisions to do something hurtful, like watch porn in a relationship where it's not okay with your SO...that's just a cop-out. Biology does not give you the right to hurt your SO and blame it on something other than your own decisions. It's just a childish avoidance responsibility to say "men are like cavemen so there's nothing we can do". While I do believe we as humans retain instincts, we have still evolved and are NOT cavemen because we've developed the ability to control our actions.

 

Just because a man might instinctively notice another woman on the street because his caveman instincts spotted her child-bearing hips doesn't mean he can't control the act of purposely lusting after her or thinking about f****** her. That would make it sound like they have no choice - but they do. Just because a guy likes something doesn't mean he has to act on it and doesn't mean we as women shouldn't be upset by it when they do act on it. Enjoying something is not always an excuse to just accept it. So what if men are "wired" for sex with lots of different women? Men are also "wired" to be entirely selfish and territorial. If you obey your biological blueprint, your character won't change from infancy to adulthood. Oddly enough, when we revert and act selfishly in other areas, we're pretty quick to apologize. But when you want to curl up with a good pornographic website, you stand defensively and point to your DNA. It really seems silly to me. The supreme difference betweek people and animals is that we have been given the capacity to reign ourselves in. We have the ability to become educated and exercise self-discipline - so that we control our urges, rather than our urges controlling us.

 

You do yourself NO favors when you quit holding yourself accountable and give in to your every whim and urge. You show your love for your children when you maintain boundaries that protect them - do the same for yourself. Men do NOT need porn, and most definitely women do NOT need to recreate porn in the bedroom to keep their husbands off the computer. If I felt that I had to twist myself into some semblance of a pornographic fantasy of his in order to pull him away from porn, that would be even more demeaning to me. When women try to compete with the porn, they fail because they are trying to hit a moving target. When one fantasy becomes reality, we create another fantasy. Porn feeds an insatiable desire, that's why doing things for your SO he's seen in porn won't work. Men in this thread have admitted it - they crave variety. So on the one hand men expect us to put an effort and look our best, and on the other hand they say that they need variety. From a female perspective, sweat pants or sexy lingerie, blowjob or anal - he will still desire another woman. So why even bother?

 

 

 

So you mean we women are expected to be these incredibly evolved creatures who have mastered all our primal insecurities - but at the same time you give yourself and the men who look at porn a free pass to be under the control of their most animalistic desires? Once again the typical hypocrisy and double standard... It often seems to be concluded that women who desire a porn-free relationship are living in a fantasy world and that they should change. But I often wonder why it's not you, and others like you, who live in a fantasy world in which women don't care about porn (this seems to be the unrealistic proposal, not the opposite). And why it is that you shouldn't change. What makes your views more "real" or "valid" than those of the women who wish to be in a relationship where they are the one and only to their SO?

 

I'm always amused by the nonsense folks like you spout of the necessity of "fantasy" in marital or other serious monogamous relationships. Built into this is the assumption that one cannot really be satisfied with one person, that one cannot ever really devote all of one's intimate emotion and energy to one person. There is always the need to at least pretend that one is having sex with other people, or to get stimulated by watching other people have sex.

 

What a miserable, paltry, alienated perspective on human love.

 

I think it is ludacrious to believe that a man will STOP thinking , stop fantasizing and stop being a MAN because YOU wish him to.

 

The reality is that he will ALWAYS think of those thoughts as long as testosterone is pumping through his MANLY body. I think you wish you could change his thoughts but you can NOT and so you are on here wishing it here and wishing MEN would get the message of PRON being TOXIC.

 

How might you explain SINGLE men and SINGLE women's enjoyment of PRon ? Who are THEY devastating ? The answer : NO`One. When your honey watches PROn he is enjoying it with or without your permission or consent. He needs not ASK because if you deny him that , he will deliver something far worse if he needs the mental and erotic stimulation of viewing another woman.

 

There is something FAR worse than watching a monitor or a video screen of a naked woman and thats true INFEDELITY. If you want to come here and talk about cheating husbands I can understand. But he is looking at a monitor with actresses ( well now days , you can see amatuer pron of adults ) who make their own homemade videos.

 

Toxic to a relationship ? I don't see it. If he is wanking 5 times a day then if he likely he wants other women PRon or NO PRon he is going to find other women. Do you fear he will find other women ? Do you fear they look better than you do ? Thats what I feel here.

 

Pron is very healthy for single women ! If you don't have a partner it can help stimulate your mind into arousal. Just like for single men. There is NO STD or illness that comes from Pron. I can think of LOTS that come from real sex.

If someone you love is addicted to Pron then you can help seduce him back into the bedroom. But how do you look ? Are you dressing sexy ? Men are VISUALLY stimulated. Unless you remove his eyeballs from his head he is going to SEE other women and have an awhhhhhhh reaction in his brain. Now if he ACTS on something then we need to be on the cheating forum...

[annieo]

OK, I am totally confused. What's PRon? I am curious. Is it some kind of pro-porn ultimate that I have missed somehow? Sorry; we all transpose letters sometimes, but this was pretty consistent throughout the post

And while I am not a porn-hater (more of a guilty, occasional porn user), I don't buy into the idea that it is part of being a "manly" man.

I've known some who use/peruse, and others who were totally masculine in all ways, but it just wasn't their thing.

But maybe they were lying to me. That wouldn't come as a huge shock.

[Mary3]

OK, I am totally confused. What's PRon? I am curious. Is it some kind of pro-porn ultimate that I have missed somehow? Sorry; we all transpose letters sometimes, but this was pretty consistent throughout the post

And while I am not a porn-hater (more of a guilty, occasional porn user), I don't buy into the idea that it is part of being a "manly" man.

I've known some who use/peruse, and others who were totally masculine in all ways, but it just wasn't their thing.

But maybe they were lying to me. That wouldn't come as a huge shock.

 

Sorry the Pron part is back from the IRC days when thats what we used to describe Porn. My bad.

 

Men = testosterone= healthy sex drive =visualization=viewing women =viewing Porn.

[RMan3]

I would feel inadiquite if she looked at it all the time & was getting off on men with big dxxxs pounding the women over & over. I'm not big at all & I could never do her like that. I wouldn't move on. I won't try to get it bigger. If I were to watch porn, it would be if we both liked it. I would never do anything that she might think I would be compairing her to the women in the film. I'm not looking, or expecting perfection in my women & would never do anything to cause her to feel bad about her body.

She is great to me, but like many wemon, she thinks she needs to loose some weight or thinks a little celulitte is bad. I think she is great anyway & don't see her imperfections. I do see mine though. I sometimes feel a little small, mostly girth, which seems to be the most desired part of the penis. I think it's sort of natural if you aren't large to feel sometimes you aren't big enough, but I don't dwell on it or appoligiqe either. I think It's a turnoff for a guy to go on & on about feeling big enough. I say show love & be the best lover I can with what I have.

[Lovelybird]

Pro-porn, are you suggesting that all men aren't capable of being faithful? that they always go for better looking, and younger ones? what a sad thing

 

A manly man now is defined as a "porn watcher (mental adulter)"? the world must be seriously wrong

 

I think a manly man is

 

Faithful

Loving

Morally strong

yet compassionate