Mary3 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 My friend has been with her boyfriend 3 years. All during this time he told her " I dont want to get married " She also wants kids. He said " I don't want kids , I already have 2 kids " She wanted this for 3 years and told him she was going to leave. She joined a dating site , had miserable success and went back to him and gave him an Ultimatum:" Marry me or we are done " She told him they needed to get a ring. They looked for rings. She wanted an expensive one. He got her the one she wanted. I asked if he formally asked her to marry him ? . She said no. So basically they are getting married soon. Guys : How do you react to a woman who gives you an Ultimatum to marry or else ? I told her it does not look good for her future since he did not ask her years ago and now will marry her only because she wants it . What do you think ? She also wants kids and he says he will give them to her... Link to post Share on other sites
Lauriebell82 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 If HE doesn't want any of these things, then why did he agree to do them? This sounds like an odd situation. In the end, I think your may be in for a heartbreak unfortunately. My thoughts are that you can't push a guy into marriage and have him be happy. It has to be what you both want at the same time. Interesting that this is usually manifested in the "woman pressures man into marriage" light. My one guy friend put it in an interesting light. He said girls dream of getting married and having children, and little boys dream of the first time they will get laid. Link to post Share on other sites
Star Gazer Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 If HE doesn't want any of these things, then why did he agree to do them? Because due to the ultimatum he can't have the alternative (staying with her, but not married), that's why. He'd rather give her what she wants than lose what he wants. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Mary, your example appears to be a recipe for disaster. While he might have caved for the interim, who knows how this will manifest itself years into the marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
c-riouz Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 She pressured him into marriage and kids? I predict he will end up resenting her and the marriage will fail in the long run. I wouldn't want anyone to marry me because of pressure. What kind of feeling is that, what kind of signal does that send for the stability of marriage? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mary3 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 If HE doesn't want any of these things, then why did he agree to do them? This sounds like an odd situation. In the end, I think your may be in for a heartbreak unfortunately. My thoughts are that you can't push a guy into marriage and have him be happy. It has to be what you both want at the same time. Interesting that this is usually manifested in the "woman pressures man into marriage" light. My one guy friend put it in an interesting light. He said girls dream of getting married and having children, and little boys dream of the first time they will get laid. She has that type of personality where she HAS to get what she wants. He is buckling in for the marraige which to me , like another said , should be based on what they BOTH want together. Dont most guys RUN from this ? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mary3 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 Because due to the ultimatum he can't have the alternative (staying with her, but not married), that's why. He'd rather give her what she wants than lose what he wants. So is that love ? Losing what he wants ? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mary3 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 Mary, your example appears to be a recipe for disaster. While he might have caved for the interim, who knows how this will manifest itself years into the marriage. Me thinks he would HUGELY resent this later... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mary3 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 She pressured him into marriage and kids? I predict he will end up resenting her and the marriage will fail in the long run. I wouldn't want anyone to marry me because of pressure. What kind of feeling is that, what kind of signal does that send for the stability of marriage? She wants it SO bad almost like a status symbol of success. Why marry if both aren't ready . * shakes head * ? Link to post Share on other sites
Lauriebell82 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Because due to the ultimatum he can't have the alternative (staying with her, but not married), that's why. He'd rather give her what she wants than lose what he wants. Well, that's his fault that he caved into her manipulation. I don't think either of them are thinking clearly, therefore they will both cause it to fail miserably. Link to post Share on other sites
Lauriebell82 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 She has that type of personality where she HAS to get what she wants. He is buckling in for the marraige which to me , like another said , should be based on what they BOTH want together. Dont most guys RUN from this ? I think they are both in for a rude awakening. She's manipulating him, he doesn't have the balls to tell her that he doesn't want to marry her whether she stays or not. I believe if this man truely DIDN'T want to get married he would not let her manipulate him. I don't feel sorry for him, it's his own dumb fault for LETTING her to do this. It's like I tell my clients who say that they just "had to use." Nobody made you do drugs, they didn't force you to stick a needle in your arm. Everyone has the ability to make their OWN choices in life. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Me thinks he would HUGELY resent this later... I agree. Wait until he really falls in love. He'll either be gone or will cheat. She pressured him into marriage and kids? I predict he will end up resenting her and the marriage will fail in the long run. I wouldn't want anyone to marry me because of pressure. What kind of feeling is that, what kind of signal does that send for the stability of marriage? It smacks of desperation to want to force someone to marry you. Link to post Share on other sites
paddington bear Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Among my married friends there's only one who got the whole down on one knee, surprise, engagement ring thing. The rest somehow managed to drag their reluctant other half down the aisle. Are the guys happy now? Yes. It sounds like he thought he'd lose her for good if he didn't give her what she wanted. He wanted her, she wanted marriage and kids = 'to keep her, I have to give her what she wants'. Don't think there's much wrong with it, she's giving him what he wants and likewise with him. Your friend got involved with someone who clearly stated that he didn't want either marriage and kids, and over time she tried to change his point of view on that, of course he was going to be resistant to the idea and then his fixed stance forced her to issue this ultimatum. What I don't understand is why if she wanted marriage and kids that she even dated someone who from the offset told her that wasn't what he wanted. Link to post Share on other sites
Adunaphel Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 She wanted this for 3 years and told him she was going to leave. She joined a dating site , had miserable success and went back to him and gave him an Ultimatum:" Marry me or we are done " Did she actually leave him before joining the dating site? Did he ask her to get back with him? Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Among my married friends there's only one who got the whole down on one knee, surprise, engagement ring thing. The rest somehow managed to drag their reluctant other half down the aisle. Are the guys happy now? Yes. It sounds like he thought he'd lose her for good if he didn't give her what she wanted. He wanted her, she wanted marriage and kids = 'to keep her, I have to give her what she wants'. Don't think there's much wrong with it, she's giving him what he wants and likewise with him.Marriage is a serious commitment. Same as wanting children. Why in the world would anyone want to have to push someone down the aisle? When a guy is ready and feels he's found "the one", there's no hesitation beyond being a little insecure about the answer. Your friend got involved with someone who clearly stated that he didn't want either marriage and kids, and over time she tried to change his point of view on that, of course he was going to be resistant to the idea and then his fixed stance forced her to issue this ultimatum. What I don't understand is why if she wanted marriage and kids that she even dated someone who from the offset told her that wasn't what he wanted.This is so bizarre but not atypical of women who try to change their men. I seriously wonder if the psychology falls between the perception of winning (a challenge) or being utterly controlling, determined to have your way. It's one thing to set your boundaries at the beginning and say, "Here's what I want, can you meet it?" and another, to railroad/blackmail someone who's been clear from the start. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mary3 Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Did she actually leave him before joining the dating site? Did he ask her to get back with him? Well the funny part is , well not actually * funny * at all , but what she did was, she joined a dating service and while her bf was out of town she went on 3 dates with 3 different men and all were losers according to her. She had everything set up to leave ( getting her own place , hiring the movers and putting a deposit down ) and based on the 3 loser dates she decided to trump her card one more time by doing the " you better or I am leaving speech " When in reality she hit a brick wall with undesirables and went back to him because he was better than the losers , sad huh ? Hey I am not proud of some of the things she does. I just know I don't treat men like that... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mary3 Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Marriage is a serious commitment. Same as wanting children. Why in the world would anyone want to have to push someone down the aisle? When a guy is ready and feels he's found "the one", there's no hesitation beyond being a little insecure about the answer. This is so bizarre but not atypical of women who try to change their men. I seriously wonder if the psychology falls between the perception of winning (a challenge) or being utterly controlling, determined to have your way. It's one thing to set your boundaries at the beginning and say, "Here's what I want, can you meet it?" and another, to railroad/blackmail someone who's been clear from the start. She is majorly bull headed and wants everything her way. She is pretty so gets her way pretty much. She grabs onto something hard and then makes bad choices. Quite a few in the last 2 years . I feel this was a mistake but hey you can only tell her ONCE then she does not want to hear anymore. I know , bullheaded... I can only offer my opinion but she does what she does , Sometimes , later , she comes back to me and says " Yea you were right about that " The AMAZING thing is that she profusely thanked me for supporting her for leaving the boyfriend who was not producing babies. She spent many weeks planning a life of her own. Personally I am spent and just drop the subject now. I did put my best effort . I am not crazy about her boyfriend either. I don't like nor dislike him except that he is jealous and it was hard in their first year for me to SEE her because he took up alot of her time. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mary3 Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Did she actually leave him before joining the dating site? Did he ask her to get back with him? I think the asking part went something like this " I want baby and family and marraige. Are you giving it to me or not ? I dont think he asked her back because she said he pretty much gave up trying to talk her into staying. It was only after the loser dates did she realize she had it better with someone who was not ugly and weighing 300 lbs like the guys on the dating service. ( according to her ) Yea ,she is quite a pill to swallow.lol ( But I do love her ) But she is bullheaded about caring about me so I have to give her that and we have lots of fun together. I do love her I just wish she would not be so naive about what realtors promise her , what men promise her and what salesman promise her. I am always giving her advice ( that she *asks * for ) and she applies some of it. Most often , not , and I don't like to see her suffer from a con man and numerous other sharks that seem to cross her path. Link to post Share on other sites
Adunaphel Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Well the funny part is , well not actually * funny * at all , but what she did was, she joined a dating service and while her bf was out of town she went on 3 dates with 3 different men and all were losers according to her. She had everything set up to leave ( getting her own place , hiring the movers and putting a deposit down ) and based on the 3 loser dates she decided to trump her card one more time by doing the " you better or I am leaving speech " When in reality she hit a brick wall with undesirables and went back to him because he was better than the losers , sad huh ? This is sad (expecially because it sounds like she felt desperate to get married). Does the bf know? Any chances it could have been a kind of wake-up call for him? Aside from those dates (which are a huge red flag), I do not think that "forcing" the bf into marrying her is so bad in itself. Had she tried to get pregnant "accidentally" forgetting bith control (I heard some horrible stories), *that* I would find manipulative and selfish, but I do not see much difference between "marry me or I am breaking up" and "I love you, but I am breaking up with you because I am not happy continuing the relationship with you since you won't marry me". I actually find the former more honest, at least he did not have to try and read her mind, and she let him know exactly where the problem was, giving him a chance to stay with her, which is more than most dumpees get. Link to post Share on other sites
Adunaphel Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 sorry, double post Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I he doesn't want to marry then he doesn't and her trying to force him is a bad idea. He should not be caving in though. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 This is sad (expecially because it sounds like she felt desperate to get married). Does the bf know? Any chances it could have been a kind of wake-up call for him? Aside from those dates (which are a huge red flag), I do not think that "forcing" the bf into marrying her is so bad in itself. Had she tried to get pregnant "accidentally" forgetting bith control (I heard some horrible stories), *that* I would find manipulative and selfish, but I do not see much difference between "marry me or I am breaking up" and "I love you, but I am breaking up with you because I am not happy continuing the relationship with you since you won't marry me". I actually find the former more honest, at least he did not have to try and read her mind, and she let him know exactly where the problem was, giving him a chance to stay with her, which is more than most dumpees get. Adunaphel, would you even begin a relationship with someone who's stated they didn't want to get married, then try to strong-arm them into marriage? Link to post Share on other sites
Adunaphel Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Adunaphel, would you even begin a relationship with someone who's stated they didn't want to get married, then try to strong-arm them into marriage? I do not think I would, at least not if the guy had been so clear about it as in this case. But if I did not want to get married (which I have to say is not my case), made it clear from the beginning, fell in love, and my partner changed his mind I'd rather be given a "marry me or dump me" ultimatum (unfair, upsetting and unhealthy as it is) than just being dumped. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I do not think I would, at least not if the guy had been so clear about it as in this case. But if I did not want to get married (which I have to say is not my case), made it clear from the beginning, fell in love, and my partner changed his mind I'd rather be given a "marry me or dump me" ultimatum (unfair, upsetting and unhealthy as it is) than just being dumped. I understand what you're saying but to be fair, if given this ultimatum, wouldn't you begin to resent it in the future, based on how happy/unhappy your marriage becomes? What kind of psychy do you think this guy has, that he can be pushed into making a life-alterring decision? Link to post Share on other sites
Adunaphel Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I understand what you're saying but to be fair, if given this ultimatum, wouldn't you begin to resent it in the future, based on how happy/unhappy your marriage becomes? What kind of psychy do you think this guy has, that he can be pushed into making a life-alterring decision? I might resent it, true. But I guess it would depend partly on the reasons why I did not want to get married (by the way, Mary3, do you know why he was so much against marriage?). For instance, if my main reason was that I felt to get married a huge responsability (in a "I cannot be 100% sure to be a good wife and make my partner happy, so I do not feel like marrying him" way), getting "forced" into it would partly lift the weight of the responsability off my shoulders. I would not be too surprised if the guy were trying to buy himself some time, so that he can get over the shock from the ultimatum, re-think things over, get back some control over the situation, and either decide he can live with being married or end the relationship himself. I am also wondering, did the girl ever promise she'd never ask him to marry her, or say she could live happily without getting married? Or was theirs a sort of implicit "we stay together for a limited time" deal? Link to post Share on other sites
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