Feminism and weakening religion are the cause of increasing divorce rates

[LionLover]

Von - I read the article to the link you sent me and I just wanted to clarify one thing regarding this statement:

 

“Isn’t the tension kind of fun?” I asked. “Doesn’t that also get rid of the mystery?”

 

“Mystery?” He looked at me blankly. And then, without hesitating, he replied: “I don’t know what you’re talking about. Sex has no mystery.”

 

I am trying to better understand your viewpoint, so would you say you prefer - sexual mystery or no sexual mystery within the context of your personal relationship?

[vonerik012]

What do you think about the article? I already spoke as to what i felt.

[serial muse]

The turn on is that she is willing to please, and her needs take a back seat. In practice, most likely the man see that she is giving, and makes sure all of her needs are met as well, in many ways.

 

Nothing more annoying than dating a woman who keeps tabs on everything. "I cooked, so you clean" "I gave you a massage, so now you owe me one" Etc.

 

We can all marry any type of woman we want. And you can be any type of woman you want. If you want success, and actually want a ring on your finger, take cues from the OP. If you just want to shack up, or have a sex buddy, do as you wish.

 

I mean this as an honest question to you, vonerik, not snarkiness. How did you feel about the part where she said she had been tempted many times to stray?

 

I also wanted to say that I think the BJ thing kind of isn't the point for the women who are objecting to this. It's the suggestion that for happiness, women must think of themselves as less important than the me they're with. Why should they? If someone genuinely feels that way, then that's how they feel. But I'm not asking my BF to feel like he's less important than me, and he's not asking it of me. And that works for me.

 

None of it, of course, has anything to do with the BJ thing. That's just incidental. It's the other stuff she said that people object to. The BJs are fine.

 

When someone tells you to "know your place", what they're really saying is that they think they know your place better than you yourself do. I'm sure you wouldn't want anyone saying that to you. No more do I, no more does anyone else. If this is what works for her and her husband, then that's great. If it's what you want, then find someone like that and that's great.

 

But it's arrogant to say that she knows better than others do how they ought to feel. Never tell someone how they ought to feel.

 

And I agree that keeping tabs is wrong. But you do seem to be all full of expectations and anger about women. So I think maybe you have some soul-searching of your own to do, before you can claim to have good answers to life's tough questions, like how to compromise in a relationship so that everyone feels cherished.

[Dirk Diggler]

It's fine for her if she feels happy with that great. What I have a problem with is her telling ME to know MY role as a woman. She hasnt a clue what my role as a woman is because she is not me. My role as woman is a lot more than sucking cock every single night of my life.

 

If there is one thing I am not is a prude, my idea of a good sex life does not involve doing the EXACT same mechanical repetetive act every single night I am not a robot and neither is the man I choose to be with so spare me on what I should do to be a complete woman. I have absolutely NO troubles when it comes to my sexuality nor have I ever had a dissatisfied partner, in fact in a few instances they were the ones that could not keep up.

 

She offers this insight of ONE sex act as the end all be all of what keeps a marriage life well, yet on the same token she talks about the many times she has had to fight of the desire to feck another man. How stupid do you have to be to not see the underlying message?

 

I swear some of you men are really like little puppies looking at sparkly sticks, "ooooooh blow jobs, sparkly, wooof woof" you are so blinded by one comment you fail to see the overall picture of why her post was not well received by almost every single woman in this thread.

 

What is ironic is that it's the same women whom condescend her for performing a single routine act which pleases her husband, whom also flip out about expanding bedroom activities conversations. Have made a personal quest on bedroom dominance. Where to please such a woman is fine (on her terms), turned around it's flows through your misandrist filters.

 

How do you know the underlying message? really. She has contemplated cheating sure, but nothing materialized. She withheld temptation as i see it. But beyond that, never really went into detail about her sex life other than saying she enjoys giving her husband a BJ every day. Any guy whom knows a woman is not only good at this but enjoys it and has a veracious appetite for it will surely serve her a cock meat sandwich

 

Good for her for keeping her husband happy, i can identify as my girlfriend and i both have high sex drives. Though far from (potentially) routine as the OP. Once again that is her choice, not mine to fault. Beyond that i don't need to analyze anything else that has not happened here. That all the other women here are doing such a great job drawing up crazy conclusions to.

[serial muse]

What is ironic is that it's the same women whom condescend her for performing a single routine act which pleases her husband, whom also flip out about expanding bedroom activities conversations. Have made a personal quest on bedroom dominance. Where to please such a woman is fine (on her terms), turned around it's flows through your misandrist filters.

 

How do you know the underlying message? really. She has contemplated cheating sure, but nothing materialized. She withheld temptation as i see it. But beyond that, never really went into detail about her sex life other than saying she enjoys giving her husband a BJ every day. Any guy whom knows a woman is not only good at this but enjoys it and has a veracious appetite for it will surely serve her a cock meat sandwich

 

Good for her for keeping her husband happy, i can identify as my girlfriend and i both have high sex drives. Though far from (potentially) routine as the OP. Once again that is her choice, not mine to fault. Beyond that i don't need to analyze anything else that has not happened here. That all the other women here are doing such a great job drawing up crazy conclusions to.

 

Again, why are you guys so fixated on the BJ? That's not what's upsetting about the OP's post. I don't understand why you're not hearing that.

[LionLover]

What do you think about the article? I already spoke as to what i felt.

 

Well the subject article correlates “why porn turns men off the real thing”. Without going through the article word-for-word, the concluding paragraph in summary (in my view of it) is that men want/desire a little bit of “mystery” whereas some men don't.

 

Is that a fair (or accurate) assumption?

 

So my question to you is, which do you prefer?

[Trialbyfire]

And still not a reply, because he has no intelligent response to my post. I have a good man, and it's not because I perform duties like some kind of monkey on a leash.

Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase organ-grinder, doesn't it?

[vonerik012]

I mean this as an honest question to you, vonerik, not snarkiness. How did you feel about the part where she said she had been tempted many times to stray?

 

I also wanted to say that I think the BJ thing kind of isn't the point for the women who are objecting to this. It's the suggestion that for happiness, women must think of themselves as less important than the me they're with. Why should they? If someone genuinely feels that way, then that's how they feel. But I'm not asking my BF to feel like he's less important than me, and he's not asking it of me. And that works for me.

 

None of it, of course, has anything to do with the BJ thing. That's just incidental. It's the other stuff she said that people object to. The BJs are fine.

 

When someone tells you to "know your place", what they're really saying is that they think they know your place better than you yourself do. I'm sure you wouldn't want anyone saying that to you. No more do I, no more does anyone else. If this is what works for her and her husband, then that's great. If it's what you want, then find someone like that and that's great.

 

But it's arrogant to say that she knows better than others do how they ought to feel. Never tell someone how they ought to feel.

 

And I agree that keeping tabs is wrong. But you do seem to be all full of expectations and anger about women. So I think maybe you have some soul-searching of your own to do, before you can claim to have good answers to life's tough questions, like how to compromise in a relationship so that everyone feels cherished.

 

I do not believe the OP was telling anyone PERSONALLY what to do. Obviously we are all anonymous. I do not understand why women took this so personally. I do not think her message was that wrong anyway.

 

Since I grew up in a traditional family, in which my parents were happily married for 30 years, that is what I am used to, and what I think works.

 

My mother" knew her place." And so did my father. They had different roles, and things flowed smoothly. I do not think "knowing your place" is such a bad thing.

 

Men really do yearn for and need that feminine side of a woman. It seems these days many women think men want a buddy to have sex and argue with. Some of the mystery that encompasses the beautiful essence of what a woman is disappears. Yes, for some it is better than nothing. But will it reach the optimal levels as described in the previously posted article?

[serial muse]

I do not believe the OP was telling anyone PERSONALLY what to do. Obviously we are all anonymous. I do not understand why women took this so personally. I do not think her message was that wrong anyway.

 

Since I grew up in a traditional family, in which my parents were happily married for 30 years, that is what I am used to, and what I think works.

 

My mother" knew her place." And so did my father. They had different roles, and things flowed smoothly. I do not think "knowing your place" is such a bad thing.

 

Men really do yearn for and need that feminine side of a woman. It seems these days many women think men want a buddy to have sex and argue with. Some of the mystery that encompasses the beautiful essence of what a woman is disappears. Yes, for some it is better than nothing. But will it reach the optimal levels as described in the previously posted article?

 

I think what women want is the freedom to decide for themselves what their place is, rather than being told to adhere to something that simply doesn't fit. If a women is not feminine enough for you, in the sense that she's too strong-willed or too outspoken or too anything that makes her seem too powerful, then you simply don't have to date her. But why insult her? She's allowed to be who she is, same as you are. You cannot speak for all men, any more than I can speak for all women. You know what you like. Awesome. But that doesn't mean that all women will want to be that. Variety is the spice of life.

 

And yes, the OP was telling women - in general - that for happiness in a relationship, they ought to subsume their needs in favor of their man's. Of course I'm not taking that personally, or assuming she said it to me. I'm giving my opinion on her post, in the same way that you are, that Dirk is, that the OP is. Can we keep it on that level please?

[Trialbyfire]

Some statistics:

 

5 years of marriage = 1825 b/js

10 years of marriage = 3650 b/js

15 years of marriage = 5475 b/js

20 years of marriage = 7300 b/js

 

In analyzing the statistics, I can see permanently pursed lips and the ability to pickup a piece of rice without having to bend down. For that matter, you could probably vacuum the entire house while walking around with no vacuum cleaner after 20 years of marriage. The Hepa filter could be inserted when women wake up in the morning.

[elaina]

Whoa this thread is intense!!!

 

I personally feel sorry for the original poster, cause people are insulting her when it's fine for her to think this way... tolerance of other people's beliefs doens't mean you have to agree with her, right? She can believe what she wants, she has that right, and she does have some interesting points that are thought-provoking to say the least!

 

I do not believe the OP was telling anyone PERSONALLY what to do. Obviously we are all anonymous. I do not understand why women took this so personally. I do not think her message was that wrong anyway.

 

Since I grew up in a traditional family, in which my parents were happily married for 30 years, that is what I am used to, and what I think works.

 

My mother" knew her place." And so did my father. They had different roles, and things flowed smoothly. I do not think "knowing your place" is such a bad thing.

 

Men really do yearn for and need that feminine side of a woman. It seems these days many women think men want a buddy to have sex and argue with. Some of the mystery that encompasses the beautiful essence of what a woman is disappears. Yes, for some it is better than nothing. But will it reach the optimal levels as described in the previously posted article?

 

I think most women are getting antsy over it cause it is very controversial. I personally do not agree with most of what she wrote but hey... it makes me think though

 

That's an interesting post Vonerik... very thought-provoking too... maybe this is an element of truth... it does seem our culture is getting very sex-based and not love-based or commitment-based, and yeah sometimes it is easy to think being a woman nowadays means being a sex symbol instead of being a lady. Peace.

[Dirk Diggler]

Good lord, the insults are uncalled for. Please answer my question with respect. Thanks.

 

To be honest my comment was based on enjoying having sex with my girlfriend as much as possible and this is a mutual enjoyment, not one sided. (4 years together) So i think even though more than a BJ in comparison like the OP is giving. Where is the wrong if it keeps the marriage strong for one, she's good at it, and they both enjoy it on a daily basis? Not a damn thing!

 

Many women are trying to bring her down, are basing their case on evidence of nothing, nothing which has clearly happened and may not ever.

[vonerik012]

I think what women want is the freedom to decide for themselves what their place is, rather than being told to adhere to something that simply doesn't fit.

 

Do you really think you act in a way that is completely free? Or are you merely a product of the current society you live in, completely brainwashed by the media.

 

What you are currently told to do is what makes no sense. Go to college, acquire debt, be independent, work,pay bills, sleep around, then maybe have a family one day, and maybe find a husband. Just make sure you do not trust a man!

[You'reasian]

I've read many of the horror stories on this board and I am so glad I am married to my man. Most people who think that we are a conservative family. I believe that there's a pre-defined role for the man and for the woman. I do not feel like he is my superior, not do I feel the need to proove that I am his equal.

 

Despite the recent turmoil in my life (I was tempted to cheat on many occasions), I am proud to say that I have never been unfaithful to my husband. I know what my role is and how to keep my man happy. We've been married for many years now and I can't remember the last time my husband went to sleep without a blowjob. That's what he loves and it is my role and duty to satisfy him.

 

Wow!....

 

I know a lot of people would disagree with me but let me tell you that my man has his own duties too and I can appreciate the effort that he puts in to keep our family happy. I think that all of the women who are seeking for equality at all costs are killing their couple. And I think that too much liberalism has led to the disrespect of religion. That is another reason why there are so many divorces..

 

People marry out of love for one another. Getting divorced is alot easier these days I would imagine - maybe a reason why there are more of them?

 

But what about the alternatives to divorce - such as marriage counseling, does this work??

 

 

I think it's about time that the Western world realizes that some important changes are necessary. Women, know your role. And make sure religion is at the core of your lives. That is how you can achieve eternal happiness.

 

Caroline

 

Be careful how you chose your words here, because what is said has a condescending connotation to some readers - those specifically who cannot reference what religion says about the role of a wife (or a husband).

 

Could you pull up some detailed scripture (not just snippets) and explain the full role of a husband and wife?

[LionLover]

Oh poop just forget it.

 

The "BJ" wasn't the core issue; the issue was that what works for one person, does not always work for the other. What works in one relationship, doesn’t necessarily work for someone else.

 

AKA – the world is not black & white let alone human beings.

 

Now if you will be so kind as to excuse me, I have a weiner snitzel & a jar of peanut butter waiting for me (just kidding!)

[serial muse]

To be honest my comment was based on enjoying having sex with my girlfriend as much as possible and this is a mutual enjoyment, not one sided. (4 years together) So i think even though more than a BJ in comparison like the OP is giving. Where is the wrong if it keeps the marriage strong for one, she's good at it, and they both enjoy it on a daily basis? Not a damn thing!

 

Many women are trying to bring her down, are basing their case on evidence of nothing, nothing which has clearly happened and may not ever.

 

I'm thinking maybe you're answering someone else's post? That's not really what I asked. But that's okay.

[serial muse]

Do you really think you act in a way that is completely free? Or are you merely a product of the current society you live in, completely brainwashed by the media.

 

What you are currently told to do is what makes no sense. Go to college, acquire debt, be independent, work,pay bills, sleep around, then maybe have a family one day, and maybe find a husband. Just make sure you do not trust a man!

 

See, I think you're projecting here. Naturally, I reject your assessment of me, since you don't know anything about me except that I didn't agree with the OP. Those are some pretty big assumptions you're making.

 

Listen, vonerik, I'm a scholar, with plenty of knowledge about both science and history. So of course I understand that we're all a product of our environment as well as our biology - including you, as you've already said. But I also know how to properly assess sources, how to read between the lines, and how to examine my own needs and motives with a fair degree of objective scrutiny. I'd say that I'm as well-equipped as anyone, including you, to make decisions about who I want to be and how I want to approach and interact with the world. And that's all anyone can ask for. That's what true equality is - the right to make such choices for oneself regardless of gender, race or sexual orientation. I am told to do many things, but I only do some of them. Like you, vonerik. You make your choices without questioning whether you're brainwashed. But why? Wouldn't the same society be pernicious enough to get to everyone?

 

I flatter myself - as I think you do - that I'm savvy enough to make up my own mind about things. That's because being a human being trumps all those other qualifications. We do, in fact, have free will and the intelligence to use it, if we want to. I do. So do you. Why take it away from anyone? If their free will leads them to choose a so-called "traditional" lifestyle, then more power to them. I'm not judging. I'm only saying don't foist your choices onto me - I'd like to make them myself, and I consider that I'm as good a judge as anyone, and likely better than most, of what works for me.

[Dirk Diggler]

I'm thinking maybe you're answering someone else's post? That's not really what I asked. But that's okay.

 

Maybe you are not thinking outside the box here and giving the OP enough credit. You do realize typically those more religious have roles adopted and accepted. Once again she did not elaborate on much. Why are you being blinded to the fact she wants to be a good wife and somehow it's degrading and limits her potential if she actually enjoys giving her husband daily blowjobs? Forget the straying nonsense. It has not happened, would it not be better to encourage her not to do that rather than condemn her based on her the frequency of her BJ's? Think about it.

[serial muse]

Maybe you are not thinking outside the box here and giving the OP enough credit. You do realize typically those more religious have roles adopted and accepted. Once again she did not elaborate on much. Why are you being blinded to the fact she wants to be a good wife and somehow it's degrading and limits her potential if she actually enjoys giving her husband daily blowjobs? Forget the straying nonsense. It has not happened, would it not be better to encourage her not to do that rather than condemn her based on her the frequency of her BJ's? Think about it.

 

Ok, thanks. I think my conversation with you is over, since I guess you don't much care what I was saying and haven't really been responding to my points. But thanks for contributing.

 

Edited to add: to clarify, if it matters, what I said was that nobody really cares about the BJ thing. I know I don't. So you see, it doesn't matter. What I, and from what I can tell many other women responded to was the bit about "know your place." That has nothing to do with BJs. BJs are irrelevant, as far as I'm concerned.

[Dirk Diggler]

Ok, thanks. I think my conversation with you is over, since I guess you don't much care what I was saying and haven't really been responding to my points. But thanks for contributing.

 

I do see what you are saying and i responded to that based on those points alone, not biasing the OP into culture or religion or choice\role based on little information. Others also have made good points to you in response but you are shooting them down also. But it's your hangup if your focus on this issue is so narrow. It does not matter what anyone says if it's not what you want to hear, it's easily dismissed as rubbish.

 

Dont you see her traditional feminine attitude is attractive to most men, why?? Because she's not in that "what's in it for me + complaining" mentality many women choose to sport now.

[Kamille]

Dont you see her traditional feminine attitude is attractive to most men, why?? Because she's not in that "what's in it for me + complaining" mentality many women choose to sport now.

 

Fine - if you find that attractive and are in happy relationship, what's it to you how some women choose to live their lives?

 

Please, before answering, notice that I never once in thi thread judged the OP for her views. My point is: Good for her if it makes her happy - but it doesn't mean it would make me happy.

 

Nor does my desire for mutual respect in a relationship automatically makes me a complaining person, such as you seem to infer. I've had wonderful relationships.

 

But again, my question:

 

If you find that attractive and are in happy relationship, what's it to you how some women choose to live their lives?

[vonerik012]

Ok lets me ask this.

 

Are their traits that would make someone a good friend? A good teacher? A good mother or father? Are they fairly universal? Or all completely different?

I would say they are fairly universal.

 

But when it comes to marriage, there is no universal way on how to be a good husband, or a good wife? Men and women also do not have different needs, or are not suited better for certain roles? It is all just up in the air completely?

[Dirk Diggler]

Fine - if you find that attractive and are in happy relationship, what's it to you how some women choose to live their lives?

 

Please, before answering, notice that I never once in thi thread judged the OP for her views. My point is: Good for her if it makes her happy - but it doesn't mean it would make me happy.

 

Nor does my desire for mutual respect in a relationship automatically makes me a complaining person, such as you seem to infer. I've had wonderful relationships.

 

But again, my question:

 

If you find that attractive and are in happy relationship, what's it to you how some women choose to live their lives?

 

I have no problem with how different women choose different paths, i am okay with that. Applied to this topic remember I was in support of the OP in maintaining a good sex life how ever it may be, that's it. I didn't get swallowed up in drama of what may or may not be true here. That said may she hopefully have a happy marriage based on what they both enjoy. But if other women choose to disagree with her compared to their personal choices also, how is it fair to the OP to be condescended like she was?

 

In this case many women (not all) chose to see certain things a certain way and comment on them, i just think there was not enough background information to provide a detailed response like that, do you? Where most men see it differently here, that's all.

[Tomcat33]

What is ironic is that it's the same women whom condescend her for performing a single routine act which pleases her husband, whom also flip out about expanding bedroom activities conversations. Have made a personal quest on bedroom dominance. Where to please such a woman is fine (on her terms), turned around it's flows through your misandrist filters.

 

How do you know the underlying message? really. She has contemplated cheating sure, but nothing materialized. She withheld temptation as i see it. But beyond that, never really went into detail about her sex life other than saying she enjoys giving her husband a BJ every day. Any guy whom knows a woman is not only good at this but enjoys it and has a veracious appetite for it will surely serve her a cock meat sandwich

 

It's not "she has contemplated cheating sure" as if we were talking about she was contemplating whether she should have chicken or fish for dinner. She is a married woman who has REPEATEDLY had to fight off the need to cheat. I'm sorry but how could you just overlook that? THAT IS the big picture. If you are a married person with a baby and are faced with constantly having to fight off the need to want to cheat it says a lot about your emotional state and your personal frame of mind. This comes from within and it is driven by underlying needs SHE perceives are either not being met in her marriage or are have never been met by any man to keep the true focus on what it should be, HER HUSBAND and CHILD.

 

 

What is most ironic is that you are fixating just as bad on the BJ making this woman out to be some sort of saint and missing the glaring fact that infidelity is something she internally battles with. She can suck cock all she wants but those inadequate feelings she is batteling are not going away.

 

I suppose if you are the type of man that would rather a woman who is unfaithful to you as long as she sucks you off every night and that's enough to satisfy you then all the power to you. But I would take it one step further and suggest why even be in a monogamous relationship become swingers and problem solved.

 

What is even MORE ironic is that in the same sentence she is telling women how to be a good partner and to have a good marriage she is also admitting her weakness that consitutes a direct blow against EVERYTHING that marriage stands for, infidelity.

 

Good for her for keeping her husband happy, i can identify as my girlfriend and i both have high sex drives. Though far from (potentially) routine as the OP. Once again that is her choice, not mine to fault. Beyond that i don't need to analyze anything else that has not happened here. That all the other women here are doing such a great job drawing up crazy conclusions to.

 

 

Listen you are mixing apples and oranges no one said you should not have an active sex life with your partner YOU SHOULD it is what a partnership and a healthy relationship entails a good balance of sex with intellectual and emotional connection. Not a programmed scheduled act that must be perfomed. Does she set herslef Outlook reminders incase she feels under the weather and pop ups come up telling her "no no no, time to suck cock" It's laughable.

 

 

funny how she ONLY focused on one aspect and this is what women are having problems with, women are not just meaty holes or sucking devices and if she feels that is all she has to offer to keep her marriage happy well good for her but don't tell me what I need to do in order to keep a man happy when that is your only focus. She lost credibility in her opening post. sorry

 

Would you like it if someone told you the way to keep a woman happy is to buy her gifts every single day, wether you like or not not whether you have the money or not you MUST buy a woman a present every single day. KNOW your place as a man. ?

 

Lastly, I noticed you said you have a fulfilling and great sexual relationship with your g/f for 4 yrs why aren't you married yet? What exactly are you waiting for? If your relationship is great why not get married? Can you please explain that?

[Tomcat33]

But if other women choose to disagree with her compared to their personal choices also, how is it fair to the OP to be condescended like she was?

 

 

 

Oh but it's ok for the OP to be condescending to all women and tell them "know your place as a woman, suck dick every night!"