Re: I absolutely cannot stand American women

[Lishy]

Fritz, stop clapping your gums, you have nothing to say and you are saying it too loud!

 

Pfffft!

[Nemo]

I'm at a true loss for words as of now...

Thank heavens for the keyboard. It rocks.

[xpaperxcutx]

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

Wow... this thread is amazing. Just because we're women, and living in America, it makes us b1tches and the devil's advocate.

 

Are you sure you're not on something?

[Nemo]

American women are just like paper cuts. Yes, they are superficial, but they can still annoy the crap out of you.

[Fritz The Cat]

I would've loved to have been with a man who wouldn't resent the fact that I stayed home with my kids. Never met such a "man". In order to stay home with my newborn son, I had to take out $5,000 from my 401k so that I could be home with him for 10 mos. I cried the first 2 wks I went back to work. Such a feminist, I know.

 

I begged my husband to quit his job and finish college (he was about halfway through) so that he could get a good job and I could be home. You would've thought I was asking for the moon. And just in case you ask, he was raised by his mom and dad. The men I've known want the woman to be 'equal' and 'pull her weight'. A euphamism for 'I can't take care of my family and I like it better when my wife works at work and at home. Plus I feel like I can respect her more.'

 

My teenage son - raised by his single mom - has more sense and drive than most men I know. I wonder how that happened.

 

The real problem? People are not taught the most important things in life; what I refer to as "The Big 3": money (how to handle it, how to make it, and how to stay out of debt), relationships (how to be in them and how to choose the right person), and children (how to raise them to be quality people). So the dysfunction builds on itself. If people were wiser about all of these things, there would be much fewer problems in our country.

 

Sounds like you are an outstanding exception. If only more women were as wise as you.

[Fritz The Cat]

Fritz, stop clapping your gums, you have nothing to say and you are saying it too loud!

 

Pfffft!

Rest assured that I respect your opinion every bit as much as you respect mine.

 

Do you realize this thread is all about you?

[Rooster_DAR]

I agree with the poster to a certain extent. I believe he is generalizing, so that makes him generally correct then huh?

[Shygirl15]

I agree with the poster to a certain extent. I believe he is generalizing, so that makes him generally correct then huh?

 

Or generally wrong.

[Rooster_DAR]

LOL.:p:p:p.

[High Plains Drifter]

The man speaks the truth. Feminism has caused a very serious rift between the sexes and ignoring or sugar coating the problem is utterly unproductive. I fear that Islam will correct this problem if we Americans do not. The American family is dead due to Feminism and the whole nation is following it into the toilet. If we don't open or eyes and confront this greatest of all evils, it will surely destroy this great nation. Look at the horrendous gang problem that is spreading from the west coast to engulf the whole country. Don't you see it's root cause? It's kids being raised by single Feminists who, in desperation turn to gangs to give them the sense of family that singles moms can't give them. American women will ultimately pay the price but so will American men.

 

Please feel free to ban me. The truth needed to be said and it was.

 

Whoa Fritz, you been out in the sun too long. Have a drink of water and calm down.

 

You wanna blame gang wars on women? You think single moms WANT to be single? Hell.

 

Where did the men go?

[Lishy]

Rest assured that I respect your opinion every bit as much as you respect mine.

 

Do you realize this thread is all about you?

 

Except for the fact that I am from England and I am British?

 

Oh I am a single mum too, I left my sons dad because he had a severe mental illness and he was doing damage to my son and myself, should I have stayed? Would that have made my son a better person?

 

Will Islam sort me out too? Or will the extremist gang be too busy training their kids to be suicide bombers?

[Angel1111]

Sounds like you are an outstanding exception. If only more women were as wise as you.

 

Well you missed my point, which isn't surprising. I'm not really looking for the approval of a man who makes blanket statements such as the one you made in the title of this post.

 

My point was that all these wonderful American men - and an English one on top of it - have taught me that a woman should NEVER be in a position where she can't take care of herself. Because these men do not love or respect a woman who doesn't work and bring in her share; they do not value her instinctive love for her family and compassionate nature. Usually it's seen as an opportunity to trample. There are even popular relationship books that quote men as saying that they have more respect for a woman who makes her own money and who can survive without them. In other words, if women didn't do that, men would act like jerks because he'd feel like he could.

 

And not only have my experiences taught me this, so have my observations. So the lesson we've learned is that men can't be trusted or depended on. And once you've been there, once you've been penniless without a place to stay, you will never, ever go there again. So for all your distaste for American women, you might want to look in the mirror, because men taught us the lessons we've learned.

[marlena]

My point was that all these wonderful American men - and an English one on top of it - have taught me that a woman should NEVER be in a position where she can't take care of herself.

 

NEVER EVER EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!! First thing I taught my daughter!

 

Signed,

 

Another single mom from Europe!!

[Woggle]

I won't say it applies to all American women but much of what he says is true. I am sorry but it is. If this does not apply to you don't take offense but most women these days are just nightmares. I am lucky enough to find a good women but most of my friends go through endless drama.

[Taramere]

I guess I don't really have a thing against American women across the board, but I definitely notice that there's a lot of ego in the American dating scene and it's annoying as hell. I think it's true with respect to both men and women, because we're a culture that promotes ego and getting as much attention as one can.

 

As an outsider, one thing that strikes me about the American cultural identity is that people are so frequently trying to pinpoint one. Perhaps being such a melting pot, there's a lot of confusion about what people "should" be. Men should be men, women should be women....but people become as bored and frustrated by adherence to those stereotypes as they do by people who refuse to be dictated to by them.

 

Periodically, LS has these influxes of "time for the backlash against feminism" threads. Logically, the more aggressive men become the more aggressive women will be in response. Potentially the aggression will be passive rather than direct, but it will be there all the same. Unexpressed anger becomes resentment and hostility. It can't just disappear or be rationalised away....and every time someone like Fritz starts a thread berating women for all of society's problems, it perpetuates that aggression on both sides.

 

There's a taboo against women expressing anger. Passive aggression is a twenty-first century sin - and if we try to be rational that's often regarded as very unfeminine. Yet we find the feminine aspects of ourselves sneered at by certain men who are preoccupied with finding ways of exploiting those aspects to their own best advantage. If we temper those aspects of ourselves (to avoid ridicule, to be given credibility as rational beings..), we create anger and "backlashes". If we give way to them we're seen as weak and easy to exploit. We face the same kind of conflicts that men face.

 

An American man might gravitate towards a woman from, say, Thailand in the belief that she will be more traditionally feminine and submissive....but who's to say that manifestations of traditional femininity won't end up irritating him just as much as a feminist outlook would? History is littered with examples of what happened when men felt angry with/irritated by women. Regardless of how submissive and feminine women were as a result of the particular time or culture they lived in. Fritz thinks his anger and resentment against women stems from the current status of society. I think he'd have felt exactly the same way about women (whether those women were Christian, Muslim, atheist or pagan) 500 years ago.

 

The message I consistently get from posts such as Fritz's is that a lot of men who are angry with feminism are looking for mild, supplicating, peaceful women. Some women do have those traits, but for such traits to manifest in a positive way they require an environment where there's a positive benefits (beyond patronising "good girl" pats on the head) to being that kind of woman. I don't know how inclined the men who look for such women tend to be as regards giving out many positive benefits when they find what they purport to be looking for. Perhaps they don't think the "right" woman should require positive feedback for being who she is. There's often a sense of them requiring this generally unrealistic level of saintliness and lack of egotism, that's doomed to result in them being disappointed time and time again.

 

Note, that isn't directed to you Amerikajin. Your post simply caught my eye because it expressed the view, which I share, that a culture creates a certain type of person. In this case, often a bold and egotistical personality type. It would be hypocritical for anyone to embrace the positive (for them) aspects of that culture while rejecting the notion of others doing the same thing.

[Angel1111]

As an outsider, one thing that strikes me about the American cultural identity is that people are so frequently trying to pinpoint one.

 

Thank you because I love hearing opinions from the outside. I knew some English people who moved to the States and after they had been here a few months, I asked the woman what most surprised her about the U.S. and she said, "I'm amazed at how family-oriented everyone is."

 

Most of the perceptions about Americans are not the norm, and they're not how we see ourselves. We are extremely family-oriented, and that's coming from someone who lives in one of the top 5 largest cities the U.S. So living in a big city doesn't change that. These comments about how awful American women are usually come from men who have been burned by someone they wanted really badly. Like my ex-husband said when we divorced, "I'll never marry a beautiful woman again." So he decided that I was leaving him because I was beautiful - which I suppose translates into someone who has choices. Since I don't think of myself as beautiful, this never entered into the picture. But that rationale allowed him to ignore the real reason I left.

 

This is how men rationalize things when they can't have the person they want, instead of looking at their own behavior. What my xh's comment really said was, "If you weren't beautiful or didn't have any self-confidence, then I'd be able to be an ass and get away with it."

[Angel1111]

An American man might gravitate towards a woman from, say, Thailand in the belief that she will be more traditionally feminine and submissive....but who's to say that manifestations of traditional femininity won't end up irritating him just as much as a feminist outlook would?

 

This is an excellent point. I used to work with a guy who married a woman from Japan. It took him a few years to get it all together to get her here but he finally managed it. After just a few years of being married, though, I could tell by the way he talked about her that he had no respect for her, and he constantly cheated on her. Just one more example of a woman's kindness being taken for granted and disrespected. Qualities that he thought were so great in the beginning became something he despised in her. I was completely amazed by it.

[Taramere]

What my xh's comment really said was, "If you weren't beautiful or didn't have any self-confidence, then I'd be able to be an ass and get away with it."

 

I think that's where "negging" comes into play. In one sense it may be in a man's interest to reduce a woman's self esteem so that she feels lucky to have him....the ultimate aim being to create a set of circumstances where he's in control and able to behave as he wishes with the minimum of negative consequences (to himself).

 

Although that's a modus operandi that's been turned into a calculated sounding theory, I think it's also instinctive. The male instinct being to "conquer" a woman psychologically as well as physically. Intellectually many men might resist the urge to conquer psychologically as they recognise this can lead, in the long term, to unhappiness for both parties. Others might intellectualise it in a different way, if they're only concerned with shorter term aims regarding relations with the opposite sex and lack any desire to make the women they're involved with happy.

 

I'm sure that loads of British men are as taken with the "dealing with women" theories that abound as American men are, but I also think that British culture is slightly less caught up with machismo. The macho approach seems to be all about following your instincts, but instincts are concerned with short term gain. The attainment of long term happiness requires something more than purely instinctive thinking.

 

I'm presuming that your decision to leave your husband didn't come about because you looked in the mirror and decided you were too beautiful for him. I would think you left him because you didn't feel happy in your life with him. That's something that Fritz railed against in this thread; women leaving marriages because they're unhappy, and because manipulative notions of duty and obligation aren't as effective as they once were in pressurising people to remain in miserable situations

 

I don't know about you, but my main goal in life is to have lots of happy moments. I won't say "to be happy" because I don't think that's possible 100% of the time....but pursuing happiness is a top priority. The happier I am, the more competent I am in handling all kinds of situations - so I see it as being in other people's interests as well as my own. If I sense someone trying to jeopardise my happiness, peace and self esteem, and I can't reason them out of doing that, I'll cut them out where possible...just as you cut your husband out. I suppose that's sometimes less simple than it sounds, in that people can be adept at encouraging you to believe they have your best interests at heart even while they're eroding your self belief and well-being. That's the bit, perhaps, that results in people expressing so many conflicted emotions on this site. They're often not sure what it is they need in order to be emotionally well, and neither are they certain whether people close to them know....or have their interests at heart.

 

I'm not sure whether that's the thinking that Fritz is so angry about. If so, I guess he'll either have to carry on being angry with women and with life, or start raising his EQ a bit so that he's better equipped to be happy and to both want and encourage the people around him to feel likewise.

[Rooster_DAR]

I think that's where "negging" comes into play. In one sense it may be in a man's interest to reduce a woman's self esteem so that she feels lucky to have him....the ultimate aim being to create a set of circumstances where he's in control and able to behave as he wishes with the minimum of negative consequences (to himself).

 

Although that's a modus operandi that's been turned into a calculated sounding theory, I think it's also instinctive. The male instinct being to "conquer" a woman psychologically as well as physically. Intellectually many men might resist the urge to conquer psychologically as they recognise this can lead, in the long term, to unhappiness for both parties. Others might intellectualise it in a different way, if they're only concerned with shorter term aims regarding relations with the opposite sex and lack any desire to make the women they're involved with happy.

 

I'm sure that loads of British men are as taken with the "dealing with women" theories that abound as American men are, but I also think that British culture is slightly less caught up with machismo. The macho approach seems to be all about following your instincts, but instincts are concerned with short term gain. The attainment of long term happiness requires something more than purely instinctive thinking.

 

I'm presuming that your decision to leave your husband didn't come about because you looked in the mirror and decided you were too beautiful for him. I would think you left him because you didn't feel happy in your life with him. That's something that Fritz railed against in this thread; women leaving marriages because they're unhappy, and because manipulative notions of duty and obligation aren't as effective as they once were in pressurising people to remain in miserable situations

 

I don't know about you, but my main goal in life is to have lots of happy moments. I won't say "to be happy" because I don't think that's possible 100% of the time....but pursuing happiness is a top priority. The happier I am, the more competent I am in handling all kinds of situations - so I see it as being in other people's interests as well as my own. If I sense someone trying to jeopardise my happiness, peace and self esteem, and I can't reason them out of doing that, I'll cut them out where possible...just as you cut your husband out. I suppose that's sometimes less simple than it sounds, in that people can be adept at encouraging you to believe they have your best interests at heart even while they're eroding your self belief and well-being. That's the bit, perhaps, that results in people expressing so many conflicted emotions on this site. They're often not sure what it is they need in order to be emotionally well, and neither are they certain whether people close to them know....or have their interests at heart.

 

I'm not sure whether that's the thinking that Fritz is so angry about. If so, I guess he'll either have to carry on being angry with women and with life, or start raising his EQ a bit so that he's better equipped to be happy and to both want and encourage the people around him to feel likewise.

 

I'm sure that some men feel they need to belittle their spouses or keep them in submission, but I assure you that just small minority. It's an observable fact that the decline of American culture is directly related to feminism and more women joining the workforce.

 

It's also observable that many more women are leaving good men to be single. Statistically, women are initiating most divorces in the US today, hmm I wonder why that is. The common complaint I hear is they just are not happy anymore. Many of my friends are female, and many of them ditched their marriages to be single, some of them to the point of neglecting their own children (Brittany Spears is a prime example).

 

Bottom line, generally American women are doing the same thing men used to do before feminism took root. I'm not saying that men aren't in the mix somewhere, but right now women appear to be front and center when it comes to divorce rates. Personally, I think we may need to step back a little and allow men to be men, and women to be women.

 

Cheers!

[2sure]

The American family system is in crisis, no doubt. The need for both parents to work just to meet bare necessities is probably at the root of the break down. The additional stress and priority of income over family is a vicious cycle - often leading to divorce - which leads to single parent families - which means less family time - which means children on their own.

 

"Feminism" isnt something that evolved 100% from women wanting equality! It evolved with our economy as well.

 

Blaming women is ridiculous, as is blaming the growing trend of fathers in low income areas to be absent.

[Trialbyfire]

Whoa Fritz, you been out in the sun too long. Have a drink of water and calm down.

 

You wanna blame gang wars on women? You think single moms WANT to be single? Hell.

 

Where did the men go?

Feminism hasn't killed masculinity. What's killed it is the raising of a self-entitled generation, with victim mentality. If any boy wants to look at a dying breed, look to yourselves.

 

Women appreciate men who take responsibilities seriously, not boys who can't handle life's little/big stresses, running away when times get tough or fearing life in general.

[Kenyth]

I begged my husband to quit his job and finish college (he was about halfway through) so that he could get a good job and I could be home. You would've thought I was asking for the moon. And just in case you ask, he was raised by his mom and dad. The men I've known want the woman to be 'equal' and 'pull her weight'. A euphamism for 'I can't take care of my family and I like it better when my wife works at work and at home. Plus I feel like I can respect her more.' .

 

This is the most common set of values being preached right now. Equality on all aspects of the relationship (Breadwinning, housework, parenting, etc.) isn't necessarily a bad thing. The economy is adjusting to both parents working. That means many single income families won't be able to afford a middle class lifestyle. It's fast changing from a choice, to a necessity.

 

The real problem? People are not taught the most important things in life; what I refer to as "The Big 3": money (how to handle it, how to make it, and how to stay out of debt), relationships (how to be in them and how to choose the right person), and children (how to raise them to be quality people). So the dysfunction builds on itself. If people were wiser about all of these things, there would be much fewer problems in our country.

 

This statement is superb! Bravo!

[Fritz The Cat]

Lots of interesting finger pointing in this thread. Thanks to all. I've learned a great deal.

 

Everyone's world view is colored by their life experiences. Those who have never suffered through a bitter divorce can't really relate or understand how it forever alters ones view. We tend to judge others based on our own world view which is just plain wrong but everyone, without exception does this. But human nature will always be what it is so we all must deal with it.

 

I believe this country is spiraling downward. I believe that one or the major causes of this is the breakdown of the American family. My own world view leads me to point the finger at the horrendous number divorces being initiated by women (at least that's the case locally). Hence my being down on women.

 

My ex has utterly destroyed our kids. No this is not opinion, this is fact. They will never amount to anything in this world and I will believe till my dying breath that had I been a major influence in theirs lives, they would have turned out different. But they quickly learned that mom was willing to give them anything and everything they wanted just to keep them from siding with dad. This is a sickening game that women play in divorce. They will ruin their kids to spite their ex in a heartbeat. My next door neighbor's son just went to prison and this is exactly what happened to him. He was handed everything he wanted by one parent to drive a wedge and eventually he wanted more than the parent could provide so he turned to crime. The kid has no sense of direction and no sense of self worth. My own son is heading down the same path. I can see it, my ex cannot.

[Trialbyfire]

Well Fritz, my fairytale marriage was ripped apart by infidelity by my ex-H. Should I point the finger at all men, that they can't keep it zipped?

 

Don't be such a generalist. There really are good people out there. If we each have chosen (both you and I) poor spouses, we also have to take full responsibility for our own actions, while holding our ex-spouses responsible for their actions, hence the divorce.

[Kenyth]

All the problems being stated in this thread are nothing new. The same things, or worse, have been going on as long as written history is recorded. Bad behavior occurs regardless of race, creed, or religion. Don't be suckered by the "Golden Age" stories, or the claim that certain cultures and religions prevent life's atrocities. It's just not true. Each brand of people in this world come with their own unique flavor of inhumanity.