Re: I absolutely cannot stand American women

[Kenyth]

Lots of interesting finger pointing in this thread. Thanks to all. I've learned a great deal.

 

Everyone's world view is colored by their life experiences. Those who have never suffered through a bitter divorce can't really relate or understand how it forever alters ones view. We tend to judge others based on our own world view which is just plain wrong but everyone, without exception does this. But human nature will always be what it is so we all must deal with it.

 

I believe this country is spiraling downward. I believe that one or the major causes of this is the breakdown of the American family. My own world view leads me to point the finger at the horrendous number divorces being initiated by women (at least that's the case locally). Hence my being down on women.

 

My ex has utterly destroyed our kids. No this is not opinion, this is fact. They will never amount to anything in this world and I will believe till my dying breath that had I been a major influence in theirs lives, they would have turned out different. But they quickly learned that mom was willing to give them anything and everything they wanted just to keep them from siding with dad. This is a sickening game that women play in divorce. They will ruin their kids to spite their ex in a heartbeat. My next door neighbor's son just went to prison and this is exactly what happened to him. He was handed everything he wanted by one parent to drive a wedge and eventually he wanted more than the parent could provide so he turned to crime. The kid has no sense of direction and no sense of self worth. My own son is heading down the same path. I can see it, my ex cannot.

 

 

I know exactly where you're coming from Fritz, but it's not the fairer sex you should blame as a whole, only individuals with bad judgement and low standards. My son lives with his mom, who sued me for custody and got it. He fails classes and skips school now. Being a single mother of three now, she doesn't have the time or energy to discipline him harshly enough to change his behavior (didn't stop her from wanting custody though). At least he is a charming lovable kid and not a criminal, so it could be much worse.

[Final Girl]

*sigh* WHY must some men, like Fritz, be soooo weak??? Why can't they deal with their problems in a mature way instead of acting like little kids in the playground, pointing the finger and throwing a hissy fit. I can't stand people who generalise..if he had come out and generalised about another race or nation or colour whatever, he would have been shot down in flames and accused of racism at least!! no one would have given this hate-filled, ugly rant the time of day!! it is ALL unacceptable..this ugly tendency of some spineless men to try to enflame hatred towards women just because they are so lacking, and also rather pathetic.

[Taramere]

It's also observable that many more women are leaving good men to be single. Statistically, women are initiating most divorces in the US today, hmm I wonder why that is.

 

Vonerik has said in another thread that statistically men tend to marry younger women. That could tie in. I used to do a fair bit of family law, and a fairly number of my female clients were women from overseas who were notably younger than their husbands.

 

Bottom line, generally American women are doing the same thing men used to do before feminism took root. I'm not saying that men aren't in the mix somewhere, but right now women appear to be front and center when it comes to divorce rates. Personally, I think we may need to step back a little and allow men to be men, and women to be women. Cheers!

 

Well, I can only give a single woman's perspective. I personally would prefer to remain single because my experience of relationships has been that I (as the woman) feel pressurised to put a lot of effort into being tolerant, amenable and working hard to understand the male perspective in order for things to work (for as long as they do work). I'm not convinced that men always understand the extent to which a woman will do that for someone she cares about.

 

My impression from an ex was that he thought it all came very naturally to me - but it didn't at all. It was really emotionally taxing at times, and I didn't realise quite how much so until the relationship finally fell apart for good. I felt like an idiot for trying so hard for somebody who informed me, when we broke up, that my only talent was for tolerating other people's crap.

 

I hope this doesn't come across as bitter. The relationship is long dead, but I learned lessons/took baggage from it. I'd tried very hard to be as good a partner as I could be. Tried as hard as I could to be all the things that, according to comments I read on this board, men want. Most of them related to traits that are generally perceived as feminine in a positive way. Those were the things that were thrown in my face as reasons to cheat on me and to regard me as not good enough. Everything he criticised me for related to the more traditionally feminine aspects of me.

 

Again - women face the same conflicts that men face. We face accusations of being "too nice" and "too gentle" for a world in which in your face aggression is lauded. We lose out, at times, to other women who have a more confident, self serving attitude to life. We know very well that we can knock ourselves out trying to make another person happy, and still get kicked to the kerb the moment he gets bored. We too have that sense that "there's no such thing as forever anymore...." - and we somehow have to make a place for ourselves and find contentment in that status quo.

 

Few people now are prepared to be another person's bitch, quite simply because it's not a good place to be. It's bottom of the pile. If gentleness is your temperament, then you're constantly harangued to learn to assert yourself or face life as a loser. And yes....the workplace can put added pressure on a woman to change in this respect. Professionally I've exhausted myself at times by trying to persuade other people that a gentle, non-adversarial approach to negotiation can be as effective as a touch, bull-dozing one.

 

You want women to be feminine women? There have to be rewards for being a feminine woman. For a 5 ft 10" stunning 23 year old, there are probably lots and lots of rewards. For the rest of us - not so many. For me personally, it's infinitely easier to be a feminine woman when I'm far removed from other people who are hard and aggressive. When I'm not thrown into that situation where I have to play it their way or utilise my "talent" for tolerating other people's crap. When I'm around people who are more like me.

 

The more macho and the more aggressive man is, the harder a woman needs to be to cope in the long term. Increasing calls for America to become an even more testosterone-fuelled society, if answered, are liable to just increase the extent to which women have to be hard and self seeking. What else would a person do in a society that perceives manliness as all things good and femininity as a second rate state of being?

[Woggle]

Fritz is speaking from a frustration of many men who try to do the right thing and it blows up in their faces. The men who don't cheat on or abuse their wives and do right by their families are the ones that seem to always get the short end of the stick. I think that any woman that is honest with herself will admit that he is at least somewhat right but too many women get bent out of shape when men say what many of is really feel. Do you think he just woke up one day and decided to become this bitter for no reason?

[Trialbyfire]

Fritz is speaking from a frustration of many men who try to do the right thing and it blows up in their faces. The men who don't cheat on or abuse their wives and do right by their families are the ones that seem to always get the short end of the stick. I think that any woman that is honest with herself will admit that he is at least somewhat right but too many women get bent out of shape when men say what many of is really feel. Do you think he just woke up one day and decided to become this bitter for no reason?

Woggle, the only person Fritz is hurting, is himself. Shouldn't I be running around saying that every man is dirt because my ex-H cheated on me and I've been hard done by, because I found out that a few other guys just wanted in my pants? If anyone is to blame, it's myself for picking the wrong men for the wrong job. Every adult has a choice in life.

[Woggle]

Chances are Fritz knows many men who are in the same situation as him because it is damn near an epidemic these days. I won't say all women are like this but the numbers speak for themselves.

[Trialbyfire]

Chances are Fritz knows many men who are in the same situation as him because it is damn near an epidemic these days. I won't say all women are like this but the numbers speak for themselves.

If you hang around radical misogynistic or feminist sites, or consistently read about infidelity, you're going to make your world as such. It's all about perspective.

 

Once again, the only people you hurt, are yourselves.

[Taramere]

Fritz is speaking from a frustration of many men who try to do the right thing and it blows up in their faces. The men who don't cheat on or abuse their wives and do right by their families are the ones that seem to always get the short end of the stick. I think that any woman that is honest with herself will admit that he is at least somewhat right but too many women get bent out of shape when men say what many of is really feel. Do you think he just woke up one day and decided to become this bitter for no reason?

 

He's entitled to feel frustration. We grow up believing that as long as we try to be the best person we can be, life will work out well for us. Then we're introduced to the reality that our notion of the best person we can be won't always be valued by the people who we wish would value it. That's hurtful to everyone who experiences it - feels like a major betrayal and makes a mockery of our values. I bet pretty much everyone has experienced it at some point - even (possibly especially) the people who go on to inflict that same pain on others.

 

It's a hard conflict to work through, and I wouldn't want to bash anyone just for having a bit of trouble resolving it. I suppose that other people's frustration sets in when there's no indication of the person actually wanting to resolve it. When they prefer to continually act out that conflict by holding other uninvolved parties (who happen to be the same gender as the person who hurt them) responsible for it - and berating them accordingly.

 

I'm not American, but a thread like this could just as easily be directed at women of my nationality. Women of any nationality. Fritz has a right to be frustrated, but that doesn't automatically extent into a right to pour vitriol freely over anyone who happens to be of the same gender and nationality as his ex wife, and not receive the same in response. As is generally the case with these threads, the responses have nowhere near the level of anger that the provocative posts possess.

 

So no. As a human being I may empathise with his sense of frustration about the way life sometimes works out, but as a woman I don't think he's "right" to unleash all this hatred against my gender.

[Woggle]

I understand why him unloading on your gender bothers you but that is pretty much what many women do it everyday and men are just supposed to suck it up. How do you think I feel when women spew the worse kind of bile against men? They also do it in an under the radar way and when they are called on it they claim to love men but it is obvious how they really feel. At least most men like Fritz come right out and tell you how they feel.

[Rooster_DAR]

You sure spout a lot of obervable "facts" without anything to back 'em up. Who says these are "good men" that every woman is divorcing? Who made you the sole person in the world to determine what a "good man" is vs. any other? I can tell you one thing with an absolute certainty, and I'm speaking about MY personal life, so I have a right to state it as fact. If I weren't in the workforce, I would be on welfare with my son. His dad makes certain, at the ripe old age of 42, to maintain a very sporadic job history so it's difficult to get financial assistance in raising our son. I get a whopping $170 a month child support (when I get it) for a 14 year old 5 foot 10 inch boy. Get a grasp on THAT concept, okay?

 

Well for one I did not say every, I said many. Just speak to any professional therapist and I'm sure you will find the same conclusions. I've been to many therapist and researched the subject quite a bit, I'm not just spewing a load of BS. Now, in your case it may be different, I'm not saying my observations apply to everyone and I am generalizing a bit.

 

I've been single for almost three years now, and guess what. Most of the women that hit on me have boyfriends, or they are married. Don't try to rationalize that by saying maybe they are unhappy, any single guy will tell you a huge number of women that they fraternize with are in a relationship. This is part of where I get some of my observations from. This applies to males as well, but I see it more in females than ever in the past.

 

Again, your situation may be different so I can see how abrasive my post can be in to you, but perhaps your situation is just that, different.

 

Cheers!

[Rooster_DAR]

Chances are Fritz knows many men who are in the same situation as him because it is damn near an epidemic these days. I won't say all women are like this but the numbers speak for themselves.

 

I concur vehemently.

[serial muse]

No way would I EVER excuse anyone for sneaking around behind their partner's back. If you're unhappy, you break up, divorce, etc. You NEVER lie and cheat.

 

And yes - my situation is quite different than what you describe. Which is why NO ONE should post such a generalized, hateful thread such as this. All it does is polarize all the good women into hating right back.

 

Of course. But I have to wonder if maybe that's the OP's goal? I really don't understand why else someone would make a thread like this.

 

It's just utter nonsense to blame crappy behavior on one gender. Utter, utter foolishness and bitterness. Many of the people on these boards have been "done wrong" by their partners, but from what I read on this thread you'd think women were always the guilty party. I don't understand how seemingly rational people can be SO angry that they ignore 50 percent of the stories. But that is exactly what this sort of thread is all about. It's far easier and more reassuring to oneself, I'd imagine, to blame an entire gender for one's pain than to blame the specific partner one chose. Because that might suggest that yes, one made a mistake in choosing that partner. If it's all women, then that absolves you of any responsibility for your choice. (After all, that's just how women are. Oh, yawn.)

 

Seriously, it's just irrational. And angry people are irrational. This is going to sound all self-satisifed right here, but the truth is I'm proud of the emotional process I've been through: So yeah, I'm glad that I moved past my anger at my ex-H - it took a while, but now I'm in a loving relationship and I feel like a whole person again. And that's because I was willing, despite my fears and bitterness and anger, to recognize that people come in all shapes and sizes - men and women both. I wish that for you all as well - and that includes you, Woggle, because despite your happiness in your wife (and I'm happy for you, too), you're still holding onto a lot of anger toward other women, and that does seem to periodically threaten your relationship. It's destructive and it's irrational, and it does you no good not to take a more moderated, level-headed approach. Or you, Rooster. Both of you seem like guys who have it together in many ways, but you're hanging onto so much anger that the slightest trigger sets it off. Which only goes to show that the personal anger is still very present and you're not willing to relinquish it, likely out of fear that it'll make you too vulnerable. I get it, but let it go, seriously. You'll live longer.

[Taramere]

from what I read on this thread you'd think women were always the guilty party. I don't understand how seemingly rational people can be SO angry that they ignore 50 percent of the stories.

 

You know the drill, SM. No particular thought or analysis required. If someone presents any kind of reasoned argument opposing your position, just ignore it and it'll eventually go away. It's important to preserve your energy so that you can gather together all your stamina, persistence and prejudice. Then meld them into one big hammer and use that hammer to thump your complaints into people's skulls again and again and again. Don't stop until they give up arguing and vomit copiously from the migraine of it all. That's the way to squash dissent.

 

No offence to any of the gentlemen here, of course. If this doesn't apply to you, you needn't feel offended. Without prejudice etc

[Fritz The Cat]

I've snipped a few quotes from the internet that pretty much show it from a man's perspective. Kinda hard to argue with things like -

 

"Women tend to cause more problems in marriage because of improper expectations.

 

A guy goes into a marriage a little nervous, hoping for the best, but expecting an imperfect marriage, full of ups and downs, just like the rest of life.

 

A woman goes into a marriage expecting to be a princess, having just married her prince in a glorious ceremony, and fully expects to live in wedded bliss "happily ever after."

 

When reality hits, and the marriage isn't 100% roses and romance 100% of the time, the man has no problem with it, realizing that he lives in the real world, and not a fairy tale.

The woman, when faced with reality, somehow believes that her marriage is a failure, and that she was denied her god given right to be a real-life princess."

 

Look at the reasons women give for divorcing their husbands and you'll understand the above quote.

[Lishy]

Fritz, this is nothing to do with American women, this is to do with your anger and insecurity issues

 

You should have opened a thread on the real problem, you would have got much better imput!

[Fritz The Cat]

Here's another that speaks volumes. -

 

"American women are, for the most part, brainless bimbos when it comes to abusive men, and cold-hearted and calculating when it comes to f*cking over the decent men."

[Fritz The Cat]

And the above gem came from where?

 

A man.............................

[Fritz The Cat]

This one's a doozy.

 

"Feminism is no longer about equal opportunity for women. It is a thuggish, devious synthesis of Marxism and lesbianism used by ruling elites to undermine individuals and weaken society. It is to society what AIDS is to the body."

[marlena]

"Women tend to cause more problems in marriage because of improper expectations.

 

A guy goes into a marriage a little nervous, hoping for the best, but expecting an imperfect marriage, full of ups and downs, just like the rest of life.

 

A woman goes into a marriage expecting to be a princess, having just married her prince in a glorious ceremony, and fully expects to live in wedded bliss "happily ever after."

 

When reality hits, and the marriage isn't 100% roses and romance 100% of the time, the man has no problem with it, realizing that he lives in the real world, and not a fairy tale.

The woman, when faced with reality, somehow believes that her marriage is a failure, and that she was denied her god given right to be a real-life princess."

 

Look at the reasons women give for divorcing their husbands and you'll understand the above quote.

 

What utter,complete nonsense! Who wrote this? A twelve-year-old?

 

It's a well-known fact that the "Rabbit Run" syndrome is much,much more common in men.

 

Seriously, this has nothing to do with gender. There are immature, irresponsible, and selfish people everywhere or just people who simply picked the wrong partner. Big deal, I say. Next!!!!

[Fritz The Cat]

"You see, once the woman has her two little trophies, she doesn't need you any more, except as a meal ticket."

[sedgwick]

The American family is dead due to Feminism

 

This is so naive as to be laughable.

[Fritz The Cat]

What utter,complete nonsense! Who wrote this? A twelve-year-old?

 

It's a well-known fact that the "Rabbit Run" syndrome is much,much more common in men.

 

Seriously, this has nothing to do with gender. There are immature, irresponsible, and selfish people everywhere or just people who simply picked the wrong partner. Big deal, I say. Next!!!!

Weak. Can't you do a little better?

[Fritz The Cat]

"Men are either blinded by love or pressured into marriage and those who aren't lucky enough to find true happiness (the majority) wake up to find that marriage is a trap that only bites men trying to leave it. Women think divorce is funny because they risk nothing in it. The more involved a man gets into a relationship: house, kids, etc the more he has to lose if his wife wants out for any reason.

 

Once the honeymoon period is over and there are problems, the man realizes that his head is in a noose and his wife gets to choose if and when to pull the lever on the trapdoor of divorce. It is scary ****; to know your whole life can be stripped from you at any time."

[sedgwick]

Women think divorce is funny because they risk nothing in it.

 

Ahhh, yes, that must be why I became suicidally depressed after my divorce. Must be why I cried every day and almost lost my job -- because I thought it was funny! Now I understand myself!

 

This is just ludicrous. Have you ever met a woman in your entire life?

[sedgwick]

The minute your beloved loses his job (read: the money train stops), or life *****s on him so hard that his illusion of strength is gone, that "love" will fly right out the f*cking window."

 

Ah, okay, and this is why when my husband lost his job, I supported us for six months and gave him constant encouragement when he was down.

 

This is so silly it doesn't even piss me off. Next firebrand internet troll, please!