Re: I absolutely cannot stand American women

[marlena]

Weak. Can't you do a little better?

 

What more is there to say? Some relationships endure while others don't. It's that simple. When a relationship dies, we mourn it, we reflect on the causes, we learn fom it and we move on. No mature, intelligent person goes around blaming the opposite sex of a particular culture because of it. That's called having a chip on your shoulder.

 

Besides, divorce is not inherent to American society alone. In case you haven't noticed, it's everywhere. That's the stuff humans are made of!

[Final Girl]

The OP is a wind-up merchant...a little boy getting his kicks from trying to intimidate women while hiding behind a computer screen!! In real life he'd no doubt blubber like a baby in front of a strong, confident woman.

[Lishy]

Fritz, you are embarressing yourself, sorry to break it to ya!

[Taramere]

I would like to quote the following highly persuasive authorities.

 

 

"There comes a time in a man's life when he realises that a certain stagnancy has set in, and that a drastic rethink is required. The only cure for this malaise consists of an affordable cabriolet, a fresh set of golf clubs, daring experimentation with Botox, defiance of convention....."

 

"I left my wife for my 23 year old secretary"

 

"I left my wife cos pregnant women r ugly lol"

 

"My wife was unsupportive of my fetishes and failed to attend to my nappy rash with due care and consideration. I left the matrimonial home so that the petals of my sensuality might open up for the world to relish"

 

"I left my wife under the patio I laid down in mid January"

 

 

and

 

"Ostensibly, Fight Club appears to offer a critique of late capitalist society and the misfortunes it generates out of its obsessive concern with profits, consumption, and the commercial values that underline its market driven ethos. But Fight Club is less interested in attacking the broader material relations of power and strategies of domination and exploitation associated with neoliberal capitalism than it is in rebelling against a consumerist culture that dissolves the bonds of male sociality and puts into place an enervating notion of male identity and agency. Contrary to the onslaught of reviews accompany the film’s premier that celebrated it as a daring social critique, Fight Club has nothing to say about the structural violence of unemployment, job insecurity, cuts in public spending, and the destruction of institutions capable of defending social provisions and the public good. On the contrary, Fight Club defines the violence of capitalism almost exclusively in terms of an attack on traditional (if not to say regressive) notions of masculinity, and in doing so reinscribes white, heterosexuality within a dominant logic of stylized brutality and male bonding that appears predicated on the need to denigrate and wage war against all that is feminine."

[porter218]

"Men are either blinded by love or pressured into marriage and those who aren't lucky enough to find true happiness (the majority) wake up to find that marriage is a trap that only bites men trying to leave it. Women think divorce is funny because they risk nothing in it. The more involved a man gets into a relationship: house, kids, etc the more he has to lose if his wife wants out for any reason.

 

Once the honeymoon period is over and there are problems, the man realizes that his head is in a noose and his wife gets to choose if and when to pull the lever on the trapdoor of divorce. It is scary ****; to know your whole life can be stripped from you at any time."

What century are you living in? Almost every married woman I know has way more invested in the M then their H. And yes I mean financially not emotionally like someone got it confused last time I made this comment. These days many woman are bringing it all to the table when they marry when the man is bringing nothing.

[Kenyth]

"Ostensibly, Fight Club appears to offer a critique of late capitalist society and the misfortunes it generates out of its obsessive concern with profits, consumption, and the commercial values that underline its market driven ethos. But Fight Club is less interested in attacking the broader material relations of power and strategies of domination and exploitation associated with neoliberal capitalism than it is in rebelling against a consumerist culture that dissolves the bonds of male sociality and puts into place an enervating notion of male identity and agency. Contrary to the onslaught of reviews accompany the film’s premier that celebrated it as a daring social critique, Fight Club has nothing to say about the structural violence of unemployment, job insecurity, cuts in public spending, and the destruction of institutions capable of defending social provisions and the public good. On the contrary, Fight Club defines the violence of capitalism almost exclusively in terms of an attack on traditional (if not to say regressive) notions of masculinity, and in doing so reinscribes white, heterosexuality within a dominant logic of stylized brutality and male bonding that appears predicated on the need to denigrate and wage war against all that is feminine."

 

 

Didn't one of the Wayan brothers used to have a skit like this on the comedy show, "In Living Color"?

 

[The Collector]

Fight Club is gay.

[Kasan]

Fritz, you seem to be another clone of several men who have gotten their jollies bashing women lately.

 

Tsk, tsk Fritz...............

 

Have you ever been married Fritz, and have you had children? Have you ever been in a serious relationship?

 

Seems a little arrogant to me that you have appointed yourself an expert on the demise of the family.

 

Hate to bust your bubble bud, but I have been married for a very long time and raised two contributing members of society that I am very proud of. My husband wasn't/isn't a paycheck, but a true partner.

 

Of course you do know that if you look for it, you will always find the extremes in every situation.....which seems to be what you and your fellow clones seem to enjoy doing lately.

 

However, you and your fellow clones just seem to come across to me as bitter.

[Final Girl]

Kasan, I feel sorry for him, as he will probably never know what it is to really LOVE a woman, and cherish her, and know his life is made so much better because she is in it.

 

Men who bash women are wearing their unhappiness on their sleeve.

[Taramere]

Didn't one of the Wayan brothers used to have a skit like this on the comedy show, "In Living Color"?

 

 

I don't know who they and that are, but I'll bet it's similar. Curiosity will build up slowly, and tomorrow I'll do some googling.

 

Fight Club is gay.

 

The author of the article agrees:

 

"Violence in Fight Club is treated as a sport, a crucial component that lets men connect with each other through the overcoming of fear, pain, and fatigue, while reveling in the illusions of a paramilitary culture. For example, in one vivid scene, Tyler initiates Jack into the higher reaches of homoerotically charged sadism by pouring corrosive lye on his hand, watching as the skin bubbles and curls. Violence in this instance signals its crucial function in both affirming the natural "fierceness" of men and in providing them with a concrete experience that allows them to connect at some primal level."

 

So I guess the reference to it fits right in on this thread then.

 

Fight Club was made into a film so that males of a certain age could be told "Here's you. A flaccid Meat Loaf, or that young man sobbing in his warm embrace. How did this happen? Because you can't even retreat into your cave for a bit of solitude and porn any more without a bitch like Marla wanting in on it.

 

Here's who you should be. A psychotic, highly toned sex god who's smart and macho enough to see the side-splitting hilarity and empowerment in having his own face smashed to a bloody pulp.

 

What is it time for? It's time to say no to sexist, capitalist, exploitative, emasculating advertisements featuring clean, toned male bodies that women might enjoy looking at. Screw that. Say yes to sexist films that feature half naked men punching and pawing at eachother at every given opportunity. It's deep man. Time to stop snivelling over Kurt Kobain's suicide now. Get up and fight yourself like a man!!!"

 

It's a symbol for the rise of masculinism in America. Very deep, isn't it? I think it would be a highly relevant and interesting topic to discuss whenever a thread like this starts up.

[Trialbyfire]

The glory and power of being a misogynist, fighting back against your oppressors, the female gender. No longer will you have to be subservient to her every irrational and emotional whim!

 

Arise fellow man and follow me on the path of the righteous. Throw down your collars of neglect and abuse, say "No" to being the cash cow and revel in your manliness, inspired by hatred and malice.

 

I AM THE ONE!! Listen, understand and follow me! For I am the annointed prophet of all that is "MAN"!!!!!!!!!

[Trialbyfire]

Oh, forgot to add ambience to the speech. Imagine R E S P E C T, sung by Richard Simmons, playing loudly in the background:

 

"Oh (sock it to me, sock it to me, sock it to me, sock it to me)"

 

[Final Girl]

Oh, forgot to add ambience to the speech. Imagine R E S P E C T, sung by Richard Simmons, playing loudly in the background:

 

"Oh (sock it to me, sock it to me, sock it to me, sock it to me)"

 

 

 

:laugh: OO00000oooohhh i'm danc-ing YEAH!! :laugh::laugh:

[Trialbyfire]

:laugh: OO00000oooohhh i'm danc-ing YEAH!! :laugh::laugh:

 

Around a jock strap bonfire!

[Trialbyfire]

Ewwwww!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Which brings to mind another song:

 

Oo oo that smell. Can'tcha smell that smell?

Hey, what's wrong with the motto:

 

Men, free your balls! Women, mea cuppa no more!

[Fritz The Cat]

Fritz, you seem to be another clone of several men who have gotten their jollies bashing women lately.

 

Tsk, tsk Fritz...............

 

Have you ever been married Fritz, and have you had children? Have you ever been in a serious relationship?

 

Seems a little arrogant to me that you have appointed yourself an expert on the demise of the family.

 

Hate to bust your bubble bud, but I have been married for a very long time and raised two contributing members of society that I am very proud of. My husband wasn't/isn't a paycheck, but a true partner.

 

Of course you do know that if you look for it, you will always find the extremes in every situation.....which seems to be what you and your fellow clones seem to enjoy doing lately.

 

However, you and your fellow clones just seem to come across to me as bitter.

 

I've been married twice and have 3 kids. I'm not a noobe, sorry.

[paddington bear]

Bloody hell...this whole thing...

 

Fritz, you've had a bad breakup and are bitter and I'm sorry that you've had a crappy time and feel hard done by, obviously you feel excluded from the life of your son and think that things would be different if you were all together as a family unit again, and I'm guessing you feel like you've been taken to the cleaners financially too. However, to echo what others have said, you are angry and are venting the anger at your personal situation and twisting that into it being women's fault that American society is falling apart. You're so angry and bitter about your own personal situation that that is all you see reflected back at you when you look around.

 

I agree somewhat with what someone said about women wanting this fairytale marriage, knight in shining armour and when they realise they didn't get that, things fall apart. Expectation does play a role in all relationships and don't shoot me down in flames women of America, I'm only going on what I've seen in the media, film, tv etc, there seems to be an absolute obsession of female characters wanting to get married, dreaming of that day in the white dress. I don't know if this is the general case Stateside, but I know for me and my female friends on the other side of the pond, yeah sure it would be nice someday maybe, but I don't know one woman who has been dreaming of her wedding day all her life, or that it would be a deal-breaker if the couple just lived together forever and never got married at all. There does seem to be a more traditionalist view of the family unit and how it 'should be' in America.

 

I think men do get a bad deal legally when it comes to divorce, in terms of access and that the mother will normally be favoured over the father as main carer of the children. However, there are plenty of men out there who abandon their kids - my own dad as a prime example. No maintenance, no contact at all since the age of two, he just disappeared, poof with the parting words to my mother 'don't ask me for any money'. I could be dead for all he knows or cares, how do you think that makes me feel? There were times in my childhood when me and my mother literally had no food and this person who fathered me didn't know or care what was happening to his own offspring. This is not a 'poor me' rant, just to point out that what you are arguing about is a two-way street. Some men treat women badly, some women treat men badly, it is not one or the other.

 

Due to being abandoned by my dad and raised by, gasp, one of those devil single mothers, I grew up thinking 'right, I will make sure I'm educated and experienced enough so that I am always employable. I will never rely on a man, even if it is a man I love, to provide for me'. Yes, it's feminist, but it's also self-protection and just plain common sense. Not only can men leave you, they can die, anything can happen. If you were in a happy relationship with a nice wife who baked cakes, had never worked, relied on you for everything, was this pliable, feminine woman and then you abruptly died and she was left on the streets incapable of looking after herself or any children you had, how would that make you feel? Do you not want some kind of equal partnership?

 

Have you read Jane Eyre or Sense and Sensibility? - both focused heavily on the theme that women in the Regency era were reliant totally on men to house them, feed them and look after them. Without a man the women (unless wealthy) had a very bleak outlook in life and many of the characters, men and women, are portrayed as marrying only for financial security. I for one am glad that women can earn independently and have the ability to look after themselves. And don't forget, while the suffragette movement started earlier it was the two world wars where women really became part of the workforce and gained some kind of equality. Why? Because a bunch of men decided to go to war and there was no one to work in factories and other jobs in order to keep the country running while the menfolk were off killing one another. So, if you want to nit-pick about the rise of feminism, it was really men's fault for being so bloodthirsty and taking their eye off the ball for a few years. It was too late then after the wars to shove the little women at home back into their aprons.

 

I'm from Europe, but have been to the States briefly and as we are overwhelmed with American imports and large news sections on American politics, I would say I have got some kind of impression of 'America'. Firstly, it is a vast, vast country, with each State being having its own character so to say that feminism has ruined 'America' is rubbish. What is America? It is by it's very nature a divided country in the first place. It seems to me there are some parts of the States where feminism doesn't seem to have impacted at all.

 

I think the decline of the USA is because it is so huge, I think there are vastly differing religious and political opinions spanning across the country. It is therefore impossible for one government to keep all the people happy all the time or to resolve all the social issues. The Roman Empire fell, so too did many other great empires of the past and I bet all of them thought they'd be on top forever. As the current most powerful country in the world America's position as top dog is bound to wane too, thus is the nature of history, it is not because of feminism.

 

And a final point, the work ethic and social welfare and health system there are designed to propel its citizens very quickly into poverty should something go wrong. If there is a married couple with a kid and the man loses his job, and then can't pay for health insurance and then gets sick and has massive hospital bills there doesn't seem to be any net there to catch him and his family (I could be wrong on this, so correct me if I am). Poverty leads to hopelessness, which leads to drugs abuse and all sorts of other social problems. All I'm saying is that it makes sense for everyone men and women to be able to take care of themselves come what may and that it's not an argument about whose fault it is, men or women's as I think there are other factors that contribute far more heavily to the state of America at the moment than feminism.

[Kasan]

I've been married twice and have 3 kids. I'm not a noobe, sorry.

 

Fritz, have you been able to look at yourself and see what contributed to the dissolution of your marriages, or are you just heaping the blame on your ex-wives?

 

Were your ex's American women?

 

Do you have good relationships with your kids? Are you actively involved in their lives?

 

Did you always feel this way about women?

[Lishy]

Paddington Bear, loved your post!

 

Loved it!!

[marlena]

Paddington Bear, loved your post!

 

Loved it!!

 

So did I!! I could comment on many of the details of your post but alas here in Europe it is very late and tomorrow is a work day.

 

Just one tiny comment.

 

I agree that America women have a more romantic approach to marriage and thus higher,more unrealistic expectations. They are brought up to believe in Prince Charming and becoming an Emily Post perfect Stepford wife and yes do not flame me for this. It is part of the popular culture that is promoted through songs,books,TV,the media etc... I should know as I lived there until my early twenties and I suffered from the same illusions. Coming to live in Europe offered me a more grounded perspective on relationships and I was able to separate the myth from facts. It wasn't always easy, at times indeed very painful.

 

And yes, women should strive towards independence, financially and emotionally, as what is today may no longer be tomorrow as you so accurately pointed out. Such is life. This does not mean that they are any less capable of loving and committing to another human being.

 

Good post!

[Lishy]

Marlena, you are just so sweet!

[marlena]

Marlena, you are just so sweet!

 

So are you my darling Lishy!!:love:

[donnamorta]

Pff, no need to ban you. Freedom of speech at its finest. The reason "American women" seem difficult, is simply because we've lost touch in honest and sincere faith, wealth has increased amongst younger population overall so the nightlife is more intense, and sexual friendship has become no big deal. C'mon... 2+2 = 4. Not hard to figure out. But I'd have to agree that American women suck, almost as bad as American men.

[Taramere]

I agree somewhat with what someone said about women wanting this fairytale marriage, knight in shining armour and when they realise they didn't get that, things fall apart. Expectation does play a role in all relationships and don't shoot me down in flames women of America, I'm only going on what I've seen in the media, film, tv etc, there seems to be an absolute obsession of female characters wanting to get married, dreaming of that day in the white dress. I don't know if this is the general case Stateside, but I know for me and my female friends on the other side of the pond, yeah sure it would be nice someday maybe, but I don't know one woman who has been dreaming of her wedding day all her life, or that it would be a deal-breaker if the couple just lived together forever and never got married at all. There does seem to be a more traditionalist view of the family unit and how it 'should be' in America.

 

I think men do get a bad deal legally when it comes to divorce, in terms of access and that the mother will normally be favoured over the father as main carer of the children. However, there are plenty of men out there who abandon their kids - my own dad as a prime example. No maintenance, no contact at all since the age of two, he just disappeared, poof with the parting words to my mother 'don't ask me for any money'. I could be dead for all he knows or cares, how do you think that makes me feel? There were times in my childhood when me and my mother literally had no food and this person who fathered me didn't know or care what was happening to his own offspring. This is not a 'poor me' rant, just to point out that what you are arguing about is a two-way street. Some men treat women badly, some women treat men badly, it is not one or the other.

 

Due to being abandoned by my dad and raised by, gasp, one of those devil single mothers, I grew up thinking 'right, I will make sure I'm educated and experienced enough so that I am always employable. I will never rely on a man, even if it is a man I love, to provide for me'. Yes, it's feminist, but it's also self-protection and just plain common sense. Not only can men leave you, they can die, anything can happen. If you were in a happy relationship with a nice wife who baked cakes, had never worked, relied on you for everything, was this pliable, feminine woman and then you abruptly died and she was left on the streets incapable of looking after herself or any children you had, how would that make you feel? Do you not want some kind of equal partnership?

 

Have you read Jane Eyre or Sense and Sensibility? - both focused heavily on the theme that women in the Regency era were reliant totally on men to house them, feed them and look after them. Without a man the women (unless wealthy) had a very bleak outlook in life and many of the characters, men and women, are portrayed as marrying only for financial security. I for one am glad that women can earn independently and have the ability to look after themselves. And don't forget, while the suffragette movement started earlier it was the two world wars where women really became part of the workforce and gained some kind of equality. Why? Because a bunch of men decided to go to war and there was no one to work in factories and other jobs in order to keep the country running while the menfolk were off killing one another. So, if you want to nit-pick about the rise of feminism, it was really men's fault for being so bloodthirsty and taking their eye off the ball for a few years. It was too late then after the wars to shove the little women at home back into their aprons.

 

I'm from Europe, but have been to the States briefly and as we are overwhelmed with American imports and large news sections on American politics, I would say I have got some kind of impression of 'America'. Firstly, it is a vast, vast country, with each State being having its own character so to say that feminism has ruined 'America' is rubbish. What is America? It is by it's very nature a divided country in the first place. It seems to me there are some parts of the States where feminism doesn't seem to have impacted at all.

 

I think the decline of the USA is because it is so huge, I think there are vastly differing religious and political opinions spanning across the country. It is therefore impossible for one government to keep all the people happy all the time or to resolve all the social issues. The Roman Empire fell, so too did many other great empires of the past and I bet all of them thought they'd be on top forever. As the current most powerful country in the world America's position as top dog is bound to wane too, thus is the nature of history, it is not because of feminism.

 

And a final point, the work ethic and social welfare and health system there are designed to propel its citizens very quickly into poverty should something go wrong. If there is a married couple with a kid and the man loses his job, and then can't pay for health insurance and then gets sick and has massive hospital bills there doesn't seem to be any net there to catch him and his family (I could be wrong on this, so correct me if I am). Poverty leads to hopelessness, which leads to drugs abuse and all sorts of other social problems. All I'm saying is that it makes sense for everyone men and women to be able to take care of themselves come what may and that it's not an argument about whose fault it is, men or women's as I think there are other factors that contribute far more heavily to the state of America at the moment than feminism.

 

I loved this post. You've articulated so many things I've often thought when reading through Loveshack posts. The winners/losers ideology. The fear of failure - very understandable when you consider the lack of, as you said, safety nets to assist people who become ill or whose lives go askew. The "dreaming of my wedding day all my life" ideology that comes out in posts about engagement rings and bridezilla mentalities of "this must be perfect...I must feel like a princess...nothing can go wrong."

 

I was bridesmaid at a wedding a few years back. The bride was ridiculously late, the minister - who was a bit off the wall - shouted at her, the organist made a ton of mistakes throughout, we (the bridesmaids) got shouted at, the photographer got shouted at, the congregation sniggered through the whole thing - and it was a general great day which I'll always have fond memories of.

 

The best memories, the funniest dinner party anecdotes and the most memorable art....none of it comes from everything going exactly according to plan. I'm British. Cue jokes about bad teeth. Americans laugh and we laugh too, because the joke's on both of us. We're funny and unthreatening because we're imperfect. They're funny because of the deadly seriousness with which they pursue perfection, and the revulsion they express when confronted with any imperfection or strangeness - though I guess it's less funny when you consider the very valid problems and demons Americans can face if they do fail. The understandable fear of failure, hence the desperation to "get it right".

 

The "ugh, tacky" engagement ring that a guy saved for for months or ran up to his credit limit for. Ugh, tacky because it's just not quite perfect. Not perfect because a different taste and notion of beauty is intruding upon the narcissistic dream. Can't have that. Then I skip over to a predominantly male, predominantly American message board - and learn the following expectations that American men are telling the world they have of a girlfriend. Slim, large breasts (silicon is okay), youthful, at least an "8 out of 10". Kind, sweet, feminine, intelligent, independent....

 

Occasionally (there's a thread on here about it) you'll get a discussion about "weird" turn ons.

 

"I got a hard on for this woman and she was only like a 6 out of 10"

"Don't feel special. It's a recognised fetish, bud. There's a site for men who find themselves attracted to women who are only 6 out of 10. You're not alone."

"Thank Christ. For a moment there I was scared I might have some kind of unique quirk about me that I'd be compelled to defend noisily and articulately until it was accepted by the mainstream."

"I know a lot of guys who are using the 6/10 site quietly. Just remember to clear your history and delete all cookies afterwards."

 

Life isn't meant to be perfect. People aren't meant to be perfect or conflict free. We have to find our own form of happiness. American society seems to pay lip service to that notion - while simultaneously placing all this emphasis on the American dream of cosmetic surgery, membership of the "gifted" stream, "Father of the Bride," jealous frenemies admitting that your partner is officially hot, secret underground clubs or "movements" that will act as a panacea for all your internal conflicts.

 

What kind of life goes exactly according to plan? What kind of person do you have at the end of a life that went according to plan? Dull, dull, dull. Stagnant. Someone who's never been shaken up and been forced to reassess everything they stand for, and come out of it thinking "well, that was rough, but I'm a changed person - and for some reason I feel more alive now than I have done in years."

 

Life knocks someone like Fritz for six, and it's a chance for him to go through that process. Hopefully he will at some point...or he might just spend the rest of his life wallowing in bitterness about the fact that the external world refuses to remain in stagnant conformity to what he'd like it to be.

[Ocean-Blue]

The man speaks the truth. Feminism has caused a very serious rift between the sexes and ignoring or sugar coating the problem is utterly unproductive. I fear that Islam will correct this problem if we Americans do not. The American family is dead due to Feminism and the whole nation is following it into the toilet. If we don't open or eyes and confront this greatest of all evils, it will surely destroy this great nation. Look at the horrendous gang problem that is spreading from the west coast to engulf the whole country. Don't you see it's root cause? It's kids being raised by single Feminists who, in desperation turn to gangs to give them the sense of family that singles moms can't give them. American women will ultimately pay the price but so will American men.

 

Please feel free to ban me. The truth needed to be said and it was.

 

To blame feminism on the current state of affairs is just plain MISINFORMED. Even the village idiot knows that there are many causes to one problem.

 

How much do you know about Islam? Are you speaking from personal experience (garnered via first-hand accounts) or merely taking meek little stabs in the air?