A lot of you atheists / agnostics....

[Enema]

Lovelybird pointed out in another thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1831609

 

The impression this LS board gave me is that most of persons here are

atheists. Believers are rare, according to what they think and say

 

The most recent statistics I could find suggest that the number of atheists/agnostics (in the US at least) was around 15% in 2001.

 

So, two questions:

 

1) What percentage of people on this forum do you think are atheist / agnostic?

 

2) If that percentage is higher than 15%, why do you think there are more apparent atheists here than in the general population?

[Rooster_DAR]

I can't answer the second question, but as for the first I would say less than 20 percent of people I've dealt with on LS are atheists. I think the number of agnostics are much higher though, probably more than 25 percent if I was to take a wild guess.

 

I guess that means less than 20 percent of the population live in reality?

[zxcirce]

I think the athiest/agnostic population on this board, while probably not statistically higher than the norm, is more outspoken about it, in the spirituality forum...the anonymity provided by the internet makes it easier to voice opinions on volatile topics.

 

I personally will never get involved in another conversation about my religious/spiritual beliefs versus those of the majority of people in my country again, ever, if i can help it... but I might chime in on a message board.

[Lovelybird]

1) Well, I think the percentage of atheist / agnostic here is above 80%, their thinking lines aren't remotely close to Bible teaching and God's teaching, and they have defeating mindsets and as a result their lives experience defeats. Seems to me if they have faith, and never pratice it, it equals they don't have faith at all. A person's attitude toward life you can see if he is praticing faith or not

 

IF a person has close relaitonship with God, then there should have some manifestations, victories in their lives, but maybe it is a slow process?

 

2) I think this board is pretty close to real life. Here people can speak freely without fearing anybody would know them. So in real life, probably not so much people walk closely with God as people would like to believe? But it is true that when God deals with us, it is a slow process to change from one area after another. then Bang ! one day, everybody would notice God's glory working in their lives

[The Collector]

LS has a fair number of UK posters. We are not a religious nation, thank God.

[Lovelybird]

and most of time people even don't realize their mindsets are defeating

 

Thanks, Enema, to bring this question up, I was wondering the same thing

[fral945]

1) What percentage of people on this forum do you think are atheist / agnostic?

 

Probably higher than the U.S. average. My best guess (if the 15% U.S. estimate is right) would be 20-25%.

 

2) If that percentage is higher than 15%, why do you think there are more apparent atheists here than in the general population?

 

Because the people here are more educated than the average U.S. citizen. Atheists are by and large more highly educated than the religious. That's why there are so many atheists and agnostics in universities. Remember that the U.S. is one of the few very religious developed countries. Most developed and highly educated countries are less religious.

 

People who are more educated and live in more developed societies have easier access to computers and the internet and more leisure time to post on boards like these. So IMO it's a combination of the non-U.S. posters (who are less religious than the U.S. in general) and a higher percentage of more educated, secular posters located in the U.S.

[Lovelybird]

So I guess highly educated people most likely have defeating mindsets then, at least I saw it is like this here if this is what your definition about hightly educated persons. They are too limited in what they know and proud of that, so that they less likely take in what they don't know or something out of logic, they are their own god

 

Pride is worse enemy for person to grow, and highly educated person easily have that pride attitude, not all, but quite some. It doesn't appear to me that if a person has high education, he is wise in his personal lives, nor appears she is wise in her dating or marriage lives. A successful personal life needs wisdom, which cannot be learned in school

 

High education is a good thing, if it has a foundation of a healthy heart and soul

 

Sometimes you can tell if a person's life will have how much hardship ahead just based on how much pride and loftyness she or he has, how much they choose to blind to truth

[Rooster_DAR]

So I guess highly educated people most likely have defeating mindsets then, at least I saw it is like this here if this is what your definition about hightly educated persons. They are too limited in what they know and proud of that, so that they less likely take in what they don't know or something out of logic, they are their own god

 

Pride is worse enemy for person to grow, and highly educated person easily have that pride attitude, not all, but quite some. It doesn't appear to me that if a person has high education, he is wise in his personal lives, nor appears she is wise in her dating or marriage lives. A successful personal life needs wisdom, which cannot be learned in school

 

High education is a good thing, if it has a foundation of a healthy heart and soul

 

Sometimes you can tell if a person's life will have how much hardship ahead just based on how much pride and loftyness she or he has, how much they choose to blind to truth

 

Defeating mindset? WT?

 

The issue comes with people having a better understanding of how life works generally, and it's prevalent through the foundations of biology and science. Before these teachings were brought to life, it was easier to to believe a divine intervention created life without thorough scrutiny and analysis.

 

While I will agree that too much pride is bad, you cannot say that people who dedicate their life to becoming more educated are automatically too proud, that's a ludicrous claim.

[Lovelybird]

Defeating mindset? WT?

 

The issue comes with people having a better understanding of how life works generally, and it's prevalent through the foundations of biology and .

so what biology and science taught you about how human heart emotions work? what they taught you about how can moral play a major role in your life? how to choose partner wisely? how to have a good relaitonship?

 

obviously you and I talking different things. Defeating mindset is everywhere On LS. I didn't mean science here. A mindset decides what kind of action you would take, a very small and sutle wrong mindset can cause big wrong result. Basically non-faithful mindset is defeating

 

Suppose you don't have faith when you take plane, that will cause you don't take any plane, and that limites you

 

Suppose you don't have faith in a person you love, you suspect, and check, and imagine bad things ahead, mostly likely this won't become a successful relaitonship.

 

Suppose a girl believe her worth is defined by man and man's love, and believe only sex can get a man, what this belief would cost her? very much.

 

A successful relationship needs right belief and wisdom, and you tell me that science can teach this? They don't want another milion years to figure this out, probably after million years human still the same, didn't mean technically, I mean emotionally spiritually. And if they are humble enough, they can get wisdom from God, NOW, instead of your promised millions years after

 

Ancient people cheated, killed, had affairs; today's people do the same. I didn't see people envolved to non-adultery wise

[Enema]

so what biology and science taught you about how human heart emotions work?

 

Aside from the obvious - that science taught us human emotions come from the brain not the heart, one just has to sigh at another PRATT you've presented.

 

Morals do not come from religion.

 

- Did you need god to tell you it was wrong to kill? steal? cheat?

- Religious people are more likely to go to jail than secular people. Religion didn't make them more moral.

 

A successful relationship needs right belief and wisdom, and you tell me that science can teach this?

 

Where do you get the notion that science teaches you relationship skills? That's absurd and hasn't been mentioned anywhere in this thread.

 

Not only that but:

- Religious people are more likely to divorce.

 

So much for the "right belief and wisdom", you have a greater chance of a successful relationship if you are not religious.

 

There is absolutely no basis for any of your arguments. If you have something that doesn't relate to the pathetic moral argument, present it.

[Lovelybird]

There is absolutely no basis in your argument that religion = moral life. None.

.

I agree with you here. That is what I meant if you have faith, and don't practice it, it equals you don't have one. One cannot say "I love Jesus and God, and go out to kill, cheat, and don't believe in God's power"

 

One can be religious, and don't have close walk with God. One can have outer forms, but don't change inside, I think many of us feel guilty about this from time to time, but thank God, He always pull us back. So this is so vital for christians have close walk with God, and talk to him often, otherwise Satan would love to add more failures

 

Moral doesn't come from religion, it comes from God . God wrote His moral rules in human hearts, that's why people feel guilty when they do something wrong, but this sense of guilty or moral compass can be numbed through repeated wrong acts.

[Enema]

I agree with you here. That is what I meant if you have faith, and don't practice it, it equals you don't have one. One cannot say "I love Jesus and God, and go out to kill, cheat, and don't believe in God's power"

 

Sure they can. This happens all the time with religious people.

 

They justify the bad things they do using their religion. They have no fear of "gods power" because in their minds:

 

- God told them to do it, or maybe

- They can ask forgiveness for it later

 

In that scenario, it's their belief in god and religion that enables them to ignore their natural morals.

 

One can be religious, and don't have close walk with God. One can have outer forms, but don't change inside, I think many of us feel guilty about this from time to time, but thank God, He always pull us back. So this is so vital for christians have close walk with God, and talk to him often, otherwise Satan would love to add more failures

 

Moral doesn't come from religion, it comes from God:D. God wrote His moral rules in human hearts, that's why people feel guilty when they do something wrong, but this sense of guilty or moral compass can be numbed through repeated wrong acts.

 

The rest of this is just more preaching with nothing to back it up. A long-winded "god did it".

[Jilly Bean]

I think I'm the only (out of the broom closet) pagan on here. It's a solitary practice for sure...

[Lovelybird]

They justify the bad things they do using their religion. They have no fear of "gods power" because in their minds:

 

- God told them to do it, or maybe

- They can ask forgiveness for it later

 

In that scenario, it's their belief in god and religion that enables them to ignore their natural morals.

--then they don't really know God, God cannot contradict his own words. If God said "don't do adultery", then this person believed God told him to have an affair, then he is listening to his own flesh, not God

 

This is why so important a person learns God's words well

 

--Asking forgiveness means this person heartly repent, repent means change wrong behaviour, not continue to do it. Do you think God can be cheated by this kind of mindset? If this person continue to do wrong, then he would reap bad consequences. if he is trying to change, but failed sometimes, and asking God to change him, then God will help him

 

It is certainly not God who wants them to ignore their natural morals, rather their own selfishness make them so. And God knows clearly what are in their heart.

 

Believe in and love God make one want to be more like Lord, not the opposite, because they have the Spirit that comes from God

[Lovelybird]

I think I'm the only (out of the broom closet) pagan on here. It's a solitary practice for sure...

I am not a pagan, but felt same from time to time here

[electric_sheep]

LS has a fair number of UK posters. We are not a religious nation, thank God.

 

Would you guys be kind enough to take in a liberal/progressive atheist who speaks pretty good English? I promise not to cause too much trouble.

[LikeCharlotte]

I felt compelled to post here but I need to say I am playing Devils advocate and I simply want to see some responses and by no means want to upset anyone. I fully respect individual beliefs but I am an athiest in less than strict terms.

--then they don't really know God, God cannot contradict his own words. If God said "don't do adultery", then this person believed God told him to have an affair, then he is listening to his own flesh, not God

This assumes that your God believes in marriage or monogamy. That is a very presumptuous statement. How could you possibly know that God doesn't want you to be as promiscuous as possible thereby procreating and advancing the race?

 

This is why so important a person learns God's words well

Again, which ones are Gods words? Do you mean the bible? Those are the words of men. By that I mean men (not women) and those men who interpreted it as well. Even if you really do believe that those are the words of God don't you think that plenty has been lost in translation?

 

--Asking forgiveness means this person heartly repent, repent means change wrong behaviour, not continue to do it. Do you think God can be cheated by this kind of mindset? If this person continue to do wrong, then he would reap bad consequences. if he is trying to change, but failed sometimes, and asking God to change him, then God will help him

This same statement can work for a man without God. let me explain by changing the words just a little. Asking forgiveness means this person heartly repent, repent means change wrong behavior, not continue to do it. Do you think a man can be cheated by this kind of mindset? If this person continues to do wrong, then he would reap bad consequences. if he is trying to change, but failed sometimes, and trying to change, then he can help himself. This is why therapy and recovery work for people. Lots of people get off drugs, lose weight, change negative behavior and thinking without God. Often it takes the support of other people but it can and has been done witout God.

 

It is certainly not God who wants them to ignore their natural morals, rather their own selfishness make them so. And God knows clearly what are in their heart.

First, morals are not natural. They are learned. Some base ones might be innate (ie:muder is bad) but aside from those we learn our behaviors from our social groups and families. Selfishness is clearly not good for a group. "No I in team' and all that. People need people to survive. We are social and familial animals so it isn't a great idea to be selfish. Still, some people do it on a small scale and it doesn't hurt anyone. As for God knowing cleary what is in anyone's heart... that is irrelevant when you consider that a person knows clearly what is in their heart and if it is malicious that person knows it is malicious. A man is fully capable of being his own minder without the presence of God.

 

Believe in and love God make one want to be more like Lord, not the opposite, because they have the Spirit that comes from God

What about this? Believe in and love yourself. Cultivate love and honesty in your life and realtionships because you have strength, integrity and hope.

[LikeCharlotte]

Would you guys be kind enough to take in a liberal/progressive atheist who speaks pretty good English? I promise not to cause too much trouble.

I want to go too!! I want to go to atheist island.

[Lovelybird]

This assumes that your God believes in marriage or monogamy. That is a very presumptuous statement. How could you possibly know that God doesn't want you to be as promiscuous as possible thereby procreating and advancing the race?

Yes, God clearly said He made Adam and Eve, Eve was made from a bone of Adam. If a man has many wives, how many ribs he will be drawn?

 

and later God said to Israelites, "you wondered why I didn't answer your prayers, because you forsaken your original wife, and married younger". God literally said He didn't answer these people's prayers because these men divorced their orignial wife and didn't love them like God wants them to

 

Lord Jesus said "a man look at a woman and lust after her in his heart, he already commit adultery".

 

Do you see how much God weighs "faithfulness"?

 

Again, which ones are Gods words? Do you mean the bible? Those are the words of men. By that I mean men (not women) and those men who interpreted it as well. Even if you really do believe that those are the words of God don't you think that plenty has been lost in translation?

Yes, I mean Bible. If you know Holy Spirit, then this isn't difficult to explain. Holy Spirit will enable us to understand Bible, the translation was done by many prayers. People who translate the Bible were inspired by Holy Spirit

 

This same statement can work for a man without God. let me explain by changing the words just a little. Asking forgiveness means this person heartly repent, repent means change wrong behavior, not continue to do it. Do you think a man can be cheated by this kind of mindset? If this person continues to do wrong, then he would reap bad consequences. if he is trying to change, but failed sometimes, and trying to change, then he can help himself. This is why therapy and recovery work for people. Lots of people get off drugs, lose weight, change negative behavior and thinking without God. Often it takes the support of other people but it can and has been done witout God.

Yes, a person can strive to do, but he or she is very limited, their perspective are very limited. Like a frog never go out a well, he thinks the sky is about as big as the well opening. A person who never was loved or learned how to love won't know how to love others. But God isn't limited, He has insight far beyond human perspectives. He can install His love in a person, totally change him from inside out

 

Besides, let's be honest, many people cannot be honest with themselves, the fear, the self loathing....they rather pretend to be ok than dealing with real issues. But with God, He can touch and heal deepest wounds in human heart, most of time human efforts just aren't enough, otherwise, our society would be a very healthy one, not full of people with full of issues.

 

According to my own experiences, most of time I don't even notice certain area I have issues, if without revelation from God, I won't deal with it in my whole life, I don't know how. And many therapists themselves have many issues they cannot deal with. Psychology isn't the ultimate solution as many people want to believe. People just want to control everything, control themselves, be their own gods. This cannot carry them far

 

As for God knowing cleary what is in anyone's heart... that is irrelevant when you consider that a person knows clearly what is in their heart and if it is malicious that person knows it is malicious. A man is fully capable of being his own minder without the presence of God.

 

What about this? Believe in and love yourself. Cultivate love and honesty in your life and realtionships because you have strength, integrity and hope

Before I was saved, I thought I was quite good, but until Holy Spirit dwelled in me, let me know how good God is, I found out I did many things that sined against God. My heart wasn't sensitive like today, I was cold to myself and others.

 

Not many people real, I mean real, know themselves, not many. They believe they are doing good to themselves, but end of the road is destruction. If people are full of capacity knowing their heart and themselves, how can today so many people have mental problems, have relationship difficulties, depressions, suicides, addictions? they do think they freely live, freely choose, but bad consequences waiting for them if they choose something go against God's will

 

Where is your hope come from? hope in self? All I can say is you can try all you can. But God's strength and grace can pull us far beyond our imaginations. I tasted

 

Lord not only saved our souls for eternity, but also prepared abundant lives for us on earth, real life !

[Moose]

How did I miss this thread??

 

This is totally ABSURD!

Atheists are by and large more highly educated than the religious.

PROVE IT! I want statistics, did you spend a lifetime comparing brain pans? I don't think so, any Christian would be offended by this comment.

This assumes that your God believes in marriage or monogamy.

Assume????!!!! Oh puhleeezzzeee! I know you can READ ENGLISH.....you type it!

Again, which ones are Gods words? Do you mean the bible? Those are the words of men. By that I mean men (not women) and those men who interpreted it as well. Even if you really do believe that those are the words of God don't you think that plenty has been lost in translation?

All this proves to me, (and other believers) is that you haven't clue ONE about Scripture. It really shows your lack of knowledge of and on the subject.

[The Collector]

Would you guys be kind enough to take in a liberal/progressive atheist who speaks pretty good English? I promise not to cause too much trouble.

 

I want to go too!! I want to go to atheist island.

 

I'm not patriotic, but the UK's general Godlessness is something to be proud of. Probably something to do with loss of Empire, so the US will catch up soon.

 

 

Perhaps the most striking and important difference: the strength of Christianity here—whereas the main religious emotion in Britain is apathy.

"84 percent of Americans believe that Jesus is God or the son of God, compared to 46 percent of the British… And over 70 percent of Americans believe in hell, compared to only 28 percent of the British… Nearly 45 percent of Americans attend church … once a week, compared to … 13 percent of the British…

I found those statistics on a very scary right-wing racist website, but they sound about right. Even then, the more religiouser tend to be the much older generation.

[fral945]

How did I miss this thread??

 

This is totally ABSURD!PROVE IT! I want statistics, did you spend a lifetime comparing brain pans? I don't think so, any Christian would be offended by this comment.

 

Read the book Sacred and Secular, Religion and Politics Worldwide by Norris and Inglehart. They use statistical analysis to show exactly that. The more educated societies become the less religious they are in general.

 

Do you have any statistical evidence to refute my claim? I think it is obvious if you think about it: those is that societies where people have enough to eat, housing, healthcare, good education, and jobs are societies marked by low religiosity. Few go to church and few believe in God or that the Bible is divine. Conversely, societies where life is precarious, marked by poverty, corruption, sickness, low education and unemployment, are societies marked by high degrees of religiosity.

[Moose]

Do you have any statistical evidence to refute my claim? I think it is obvious if you think about it: those is that societies where people have enough to eat, housing, healthcare, good education, and jobs are societies marked by low religiosity.

You obviously haven't been in my neighborhood lately....

 

I've been a Christian since 4 years of age, I have a degree and make 7 figures yearly.....I know hundreds of like minded, (and Hearted) individuals, that's the only statistic I need...

[fral945]

You obviously haven't been in my neighborhood lately....

 

I've been a Christian since 4 years of age, I have a degree and make 7 figures yearly.....I know hundreds of like minded, (and Hearted) individuals, that's the only statistic I need...

 

Great answer. So you ask me for statistical proof which I provide, then you can provide none of your own. I'm sure you know hundreds, the point was not that all religious people are uneducated. The point was overall they are less educated.

 

Look at the overall population of the world. What about the hundreds of millions of uneducated poor people in 3rd world countries? They fall into the religious category by and large. And if you need statistical proof I can keep providing it.