The latest...and most disgusting move...

[Owl]

I'm curious...you've stated that you're "done with the both of them".

 

Does SHE know that?

 

Does HE?

 

Beyond any shadow of a doubt?

 

Its a valid question...she's trying to drive you out of the picture. If she knows that you're ALREADY out of the picture, the odds are that she'll stop harassing you.

 

Make it CRYSTAL clear to both of them that the affair is OVER...PERIOD.

 

If it continues after that...then there are steps you could/should consider.

[quankanne]

OWoman's post makes the most sense, that his wife is at a point of desperation and isn't thinking too clearly to have dragged the kid into this mess. So cut her a bit of slack even as you ignore her call. You're right to be upset, but remember, her crappy life has fallen down around her, and where's her husband if he's not with her? In the past, he was with you, by your admittance of the affair. It's a no-brainer that she's come to the conclusion that he's with you again since he's not on vacation with them.

 

best thing is to keep up the no contact; however a part of me thinks maybe you need to have another long heart-to-heart with her and tell confirm that the affair is way over, and that she needs to let you go, because you have no respect for the man for the crap he's pulled. Who knows? That might give her the strength to stand up with dignity and take a positive action, rather than make those little calls using her kid or posting on dating websites. Because I know that behavior is coming from a deep-seeded insecurity, and not smart thinking ... we tend to do things that hurt ourselves when we're not happy, but are too far deep in our misery or pain to see it that way.

 

her husband may have initiated this shxtstorm, but guess what? Like the weasel he is, he's slipped out of the picture and left you and his wife to deal with the repercussions. Like I said, give her a break – she's responding from a place of hurt and isn't thinking too clearly now.

[Siciliana]

No. No more than what you and her H did. It seems about the same level.

I think involving an innocent child directly like that is considerably worse. She should be sheltering that kid right now, not using it as a pawn.

 

Cheaters suck, yes. But manipulators of children are worse IMO.

[bentnotbroken]

I think involving an innocent child directly like that is considerably worse. She should be sheltering that kid right now, not using it as a pawn.

 

Cheaters suck, yes. But manipulators of children are worse IMO.

 

 

Just like OP did when she told MM, it's me or the vacation with your child. Seems like no one gives a damn about that child. Certainly not it's father to hurt it's mother like that.

[NewSunrise]

Desperate people regardless which side they are on, the betrayed or the wayward, will do desperate and stupid things to get at what they want. Since we can only assume that the wife is desperate by using the child, here are some possible scenarios:

 

 

 

1. IF you choose to do nothing:

• She won't know how to respond
  
• At some point she can't keep using the child
  
• Eventually the H will find out if he hasn't already.
  

2. IF you choose to contact her to tell her it's over:

• She won't believe you and will most likely keep using the child, after all you're everything but honest.
  
• She expects you to respond and she's waiting, fully loaded and ready to fire back.
  
• It's an invitation for more unwanted contacts and confrontation.
  

The only person you need to tell that is over, IF you truly mean it, is the husband, not the wife. Your relationship is not with the wife. And you need to do it before it gets out of control, more so than it is now. It will be up to the husband to decide his next step, a huge responsibility. How the wife will react/respond is anyone's guess. But that won't matter to you anymore, will it?

 

Once you inform the H that is over but the wife continues to use their child as a guinea pig, you will have to inform the husband with a cc to his wife's email address with fair warning that should she continue to use their child to contact you, you will advise Child Welfare/Protection Agency and file harrassment complaint against her. Not by phone or text messages. The warning must be memorialized in writing.

 

If you do not have an email address of the wife, mail one addressed to both of them via registered mail. It's now a legal issue. And this will make her think twice before she hands the phone over to her child and proof that it is over.

[spinningwheels]

I said I was done IF he went on this vacation. He gave himself the deadline of Oct 1st--not me. If he stayed here and worked out his life, then I was willing to listen to him.

 

He has not gone on vacation--I am very upset because he was trying to get me to compromise and "allow" this vacation, and then work on his life. I told him vacation--we are done. No vacation, I will continue to watch his behavior. So, no, I am not going to respond to his wife or him at this time. I am very angry about his pushing me to my limit about this week at beach. I think he wanted me to cave...but, I gave way too much in the past. I really think he is shocked at my behavior...no crying, screaming,begging, just saying have a great trip...but he did not go. Even though he stayed here, I will not be seeing him. He set up the timeline for his "new" life, so I will sit back and watch him.

 

I am not responding to anyone, and so far have not heard from her again. I do believe she was waiting for me to respond, but I refuse to at this point. If she had asked me a question via e-mail or phone I would have answered, all she has done is try to get to me. As far as he is concerned...I am living my life...had people over after work tonight, and am now getting ready for tomorrow. I am just watching the whole situation and seeing how it plays out. I have always reacted to everything...now, I am seeing how it goes without any imput for me. I believe that is the true test. If I do nothing, what will happen??? He either changes, or not???

[norajane]

Do you love this man? Even though you want him to change?

 

Is that why you think all this drama is worth it, because you love him?

[spinningwheels]

He has asked the same of me in the past two months.. I believe that he needs to hear those words to him...despite all of the bull****, lies, hurts, pain, physical illness to me that I still do feel completely head over heels love him.

 

Fact is I do love him, but very limitly, I am very catious with my feelings with him,as they have been shredded before. And before, I have picked myself up and lived my life to the best of my ablitity without him. One of my best friends saw me today and said you look like you are back to " a half alive person", where is a month ago, two months ago, I lit up the world!!! So, do I love him YES. But I am more scared than anything.

 

He would have to do alot of work to regain that love...the love that had me skipping across the room to kiss him, the love that mad my whole face light up, the love that pulled me towards him with sparks in my eyes.

 

He killed that part of me with him, and he wanted a chance to revive it. I really don't know if he could do it, because even when we are out having fun, the dark side pulls me in and slams me with his past.

 

So, really I have alot to think about in regards to him. I think I posted before that if he wanted a shot, we needed to go to therapy togehter. He never got that, because he thought we had wonderful communication. Well, sure, he did, he spoke and I either got screamed at or shut up, or hung up on. I did say that if he made a move therapy was a must.

 

I really don't know if I could ever feel that happy, carefree, silly love with him again. As I have posted, I have dated since him, and have had some of the butterflies come back with another man. But butterfilies don't make a relationship. I am confused. I never intended to let him back into my life. But he came back and like a fool, I am giving this a chance to turn into a trainwreck.

 

I have even stopped listening to music in the past week, because I can't stand it. I will not allow my self to go back to half a person. More plans to hang out with friends tomorrow. I am cutting him out for now, just keeping abreast of his words. I really doubt that he will ever come true in the way he needs to. And, I really believe he wants to but can't figure out how, He asks, but it is not my responsiblity to tell him how to live his life. He is 50 years old, he should know by now.

 

I need to check on some work things, since I cut out early to make dinner. I'll check in after I review some files, to see if anyone wants to talk. I am feeling just down tonight.

 

I get the feeling that alot of people here believe that the MM should at all costs stay with their W. Really? I thought that there might be some more open minds here? Not every M is for life. My mother was married for over 10 years with a man...lets call him Ted. Miserable relationship, he drank alot, no bringing home any kind of money....my Mom have 4 children, went back to school and divorced him. Worked three jobs to support her four children. Then me my wonderful single/no kids DAD. Blissfully happy until my beloved my died 5 years ago. A wonderful 30 years they had together. My dad dates casually, but as he says he is only passing time. My mother always called her first marraige a mistake. She just wanted out from her parents.

 

So, for those who think that a mariage is always forever, I don't agree. My mom didn't meet my dad until years after divorce. He stepped in and raised her four children. They all call him dad. Her divorce was the best thing for her. So, I never thought that marraige was the be all end all. My mother went from busting her ass to having a wonderful life. Cruises, family vacations, trips to Europe. she had the best life, and she would not have had that had she stayed married to the father of her first 4 children. In fact, when my youngest half sister got married years ago, it was my father that walked her down the aisle.

 

Just a thought for those who believe that staying together was the best thing ever. My family did live in the fairy tale. Although no cheating, it did include step-parents.

[norajane]

Fact is I do love him, but very limitly,

 

One of my best friends saw me today and said you look like you are back to " a half alive person", where is a month ago, two months ago, I lit up the world!!!

 

I really don't know if I could ever feel that happy, carefree, silly love with him again. As I have posted, I have dated since him, and have had some of the butterflies come back with another man. But butterfilies don't make a relationship. I am confused. I never intended to let him back into my life. But he came back and like a fool, I am giving this a chance to turn into a trainwreck.

 

I have even stopped listening to music in the past week, because I can't stand it.

It does not sound like you bring out the best in each other. At all. Perhaps your best times together are past, and there's really no point in trying so hard to force things to work.

 

Just as you say some marriages shouldn't necessarily be forever, neither should unhealthy relationships. Most people would have run screaming from this situation and never looked back - a long, long time ago. What are you really hoping for here and, why why why is getting him so important to you?

 

A very, very important lesson I've learned the hard way: just because you might love someone doesn't mean you can or should actually be with him.

 

Give it some thought.

[marlena]

I'd say it's time to get a new cell phone number and disconnect this one.

 

You're done with them, right? Then let it all go and move on without them.

 

Do this yesterday and put it all behind you as best you can.

 

Whether or not it was classless of her to put her child on the phone or not is irrelevant. This is what happens when peoples' emotions get the better of them and their thinking becomes clouded. Affairs can bring out the rawest of emotions in all persons involved as limits are stretched beyond endurance. For all you know, you might have acted in the very same way if you were in her shoes. I am not saying it is right. I am only saying that it is what it is. Period. It is the insanity of the affair.

 

I agree with you that she should be holding her H responsible but transferring all the blame to the OW is her way of dealing with her husband's betrayal and rejection of her. It is a coping mechanism that goes into operation for a lot of women in this situation.

 

I also agree with you that he is the main culprit. See him in his true colours and firmly refuse to have anything to do with the both of them. Like Nora Jane said, change your number and let them deal with their marraige alone without any interference on your part.

 

Best of Luck,

 

M

[spinningwheels]

I hear you norajane, and I agree. The fight has become too much for me right now. I am very raw, as I am thinking everything over.

 

Please respond gently to my post, becasue normally,I try to keep it about my particular sitch. But, I thought I would enlighten some as to my wonderful family. Which included a very strong and brave woman who married at 18 to the wrong man....just too get out of a hard childhood. My Mother. She then proceeded to have 4 children with him, while he went out and drank and did who know what??? She had the courage to leave when the youngest was 10...she went back to school, working three jobs at the time. Became a building inspector, which was unheard of for her time...a female building inspector. She then met and fell in love with my father, married him, and had me. We made our family.

 

So, as much as I can try to understand people who want to keep their marriages together, I can invsion the cost of that. My sisters and brothers would never expeierenced the life that they lead. (my father is from europe) they would have never spent summers in europe, cruises, even disney. It is because of my wonderful father, who, if you ask, always says he has five children. So, divorce is not a horrible sitch. that alot of people try to make it out to be, at least not in my house. My mom has been gone for awhile now, but for my father's b-day my sister came over with cologne that my mom would always buy him...my brother stopped over for coffee and talk. This family that I have grown up in may not seem the norm for you...but it worked for us. And everyday I wear my mother's 25th annv. band that I helped my father pick out...right before she got sick. They had true love. They had so many vacations together, movie nights, where they were NOT to be disturbed. The night my mother died, she told me all she wanted to do was watch a movie with "her husband"...not my father...they always made that time. She always said partner before children...children will move on...and she enforced their time together. They had true love. Which is what I have always aspired to have.

 

So, please, as I sad, I am raw tonight, I have seen the real thing, and it did not start off with single people with no children. Granted no affair. But, when you are well into your 30's if is very rare to find someone with no baggage. I am really trying to deal with all of the lies, and believe it or not I have had some others click into place. I will most likely not be with him...but if you could refrain from bashing me tonight when I am down, I will appreciate it.

[norajane]

Think about what your mother would say to you about your relationship with MM and his family, and what you should want for your life.

[spinningwheels]

thanks norajane...that is what I am trying to do. It is hard to ignore the posters who attack me because he has a child, when if fact I feel for the child on behalf of my 2 brother's and 2 sister's. Who all grew up calling my father their father. And when my parents were married they were all between the ages of 12-17. My mom took the leap of faith (although with out a safety net) and tried to make her life happy. In those times, it was almost unheard of. So, I can say that if HE were truly happy in his relationship I would hold no ill will towards him. If he wanted to make it work with us, I would have tried....but at this pont I am tired. And it is too many fights and tests between. No love is easy, but it shouldn't hurt this badly.

 

By the way, I think my mom would have kicked him in the balls by now..thank god she has not been around to see this....I still have the pearls that she bought for my wedding. She knew she would not see me, but gave me them anyway. She is always in my thoughts, even after 5 years, so for those who think I am heartless----maybe you don't really know me. Very few do...I thought that MM was one of them. I shared with him 100 letters that my mother wrote me. One for each day that I was away from her in 1997. He cried with me. I never shared those before. So, I do have a heart, and I gave it to him. If I seem cold now, it is because he killed off alot of my trust and love in a human being. I never would have thought that someone could treat love and feelings as just a game to played and won. I always loved with my all, and sadly, I don't think I wll feel that safe again. Not that I won't love. But will I always be so scared??? I have heard it is better to stay with the devil you know, sometimes that is what I think I am doing??>..

 

I really need to get myself together for work, thank god I have a understaning and flexiable office.

 

S

[noforgiveness]

Your father was a loving honorable man. Can you say the same of your mm? Your mom was brave enough to go it on her own and end one relationship before beginning another. Can you say that about your mm?

 

I don't care about them saving their marriage. His wife needs to divorce him. This thread is about you and you are making a huge mistake if you stay with this broken, lying, deceitful man

[bish]

Huh?

 

What is there to be proud of?

 

Read her other thread about the letter she wanted to send his W and you'll see just how proud she is to want to help wreck a home.

[bish]

Do this yesterday and put it all behind you as best you can.

 

Whether or not it was classless of her to put her child on the phone or not is irrelevant. This is what happens when peoples' emotions get the better of them and their thinking becomes clouded. Affairs can bring out the rawest of emotions in all persons involved as limits are stretched beyond endurance. For all you know, you might have acted in the very same way if you were in her shoes. I am not saying it is right. I am only saying that it is what it is. Period. It is the insanity of the affair.

 

for once, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

 

 

I also agree with you that he is the main culprit.

 

He is the main culprit. But the problem is she is trying to make herself out to be a victim and mitigate any responsibility she has in things.

[NewSunrise]

Originally Posted by spinningwheels

He would have to do alot of work to regain that love...the love that had me skipping across the room to kiss him, the love that mad my whole face light up, the love that pulled me towards him with sparks in my eyes.

One of the biggest problem that will bring any relationships to an end is they go in thinking that they can change the other person.

 

You've stated that his wife was his former OW. I doubt she was his first OW. Now, you're his OW. You probably see the obvious pattern here.

 

The MM is a serial cheater. He's managed to find available OWs to tend to his needs who also met his OW's needs. He has become an expert in living lies and two lives. Hence, your three year A.

 

Bottom line, as long as there are women willing to be his OW and remain married, he has no incentive to change his ways. He sees nothing wrong in his behavior. No different than one who has an addiction.

 

So don't think he will change for the long haul. But he will make the changes that look like it's what you want and want to hear just long enough to keep you around.

 

Vacation doesn't equal to divorcing his wife....

[manugeorge]

Spinningwheel, I feel for you in this whole deal and I always have. Yes you made your bed and a crappy one at that for screwing around with a married man but still, you have paid your dues and got what was coming to you by getting hurt in the process.

 

Believe that these incidences with his wife and him are just residual crumbs from the fall out. A few more of them are going to fall before it's all over. Brace yourself for that and continue to ignore them. Eventually they will go away and all will be quiet, that is if you don't fuel the fire by responding to him or to her. Or seeking either one of them out. You have the power to make this all go away by detaching yourself and acting like you fell of the surface of the earth by not contacting either one of them in any way, shape or form. If you do though, the cycle continues, I'm afraid.

 

You said you were done with this guy, you ranted and raved all over about how much of a liar he is. The question is, were you being honest when you said that?

[stillafool]

Spinning Wheel since you are so "raw" with hurt from this situation and have let them go why don't you -CHANGE YOUR NUMBER AND EMAIL? Then you won't have to worry about contact. Why don't you?????

[NewSunrise]

Spinning Wheel since you are so "raw" with hurt from this situation and have let them go why don't you -CHANGE YOUR NUMBER AND EMAIL? Then you won't have to worry about contact. Why don't you?????

Why?

 

Why should she change her world to accomodate his though she's pretty much done that? Why should she shout to the world that the only reason why she changed it was because so that the MM and /or his wife can't contact her? Why give him or them the satisfaction. Doing either is out of desperation and sign of weakness. The only reason you would resort to this is IF the contacts become life threatening.

 

When my XWH confessed he was cheating, (kicked him out that night) I was so "raw" with hurt and dove into deep depression that I tearfully begged my doctor repeatedly on three different ocassions to prescribe anti-depressant. You know what he said?

 

He said, "No. I won't. Tough it out. This is just temporary. You can do it."

 

That was nearly two years ago. My phone # and email address are still the same.

[TogetherForever]

Doing either is out of desperation and sign of weakness

No it's not at all. OP needs to move on as peacefully as possible.

I think it's a great idea to change phone #'s & email addresses to help

in the process.

Doing so will show the xmm & his wife that OP has in fact moved on & isn't willing to deal with their crap any longer.

[noforgiveness]

:laugh:She's not done. He didn't go on vacation. She's just making sure he doesn't join them at all and then she will happily take her prize back.

 

You will so regret this a few years from now.

[NewSunrise]

Spinning,

 

Have you ever heard of the saying "Everything happens for a reason?" Reading your most replies, gotta say it is disturbing.

I really don't know if I could ever feel that happy, carefree, silly love with him again. As I have posted, I have dated since him, and have had some of the butterflies come back with another man. But butterfilies don't make a relationship. I am confused.

This spoke volume on your level of maturity. You are still involved in this MM but have since dated and somehow feel or "think" that certain butterflies flutter your inner need to be loved. So now, this poor guy is your "rebound guy?"

 

Do you realize what you are doing? So you're hurt. You're raw with hurtful and painful emotions. Did you honestly think that you'd scath pain by involving yourself with a MM or anyone who is NOT emotionally available?

 

Secondly, you are desperately trying to "replace" the lovey, dovey and fuzzy feeling you've had with the MM with this new guy who may be "unaware" of your involvement with this MM and at what stage? To be blunt, it goes back to my earlier comment that you are "using" people to feel whatever needs that you need filled. No different than your MM using you to meet his needs, as his wife using the child to meet hers.

 

My mom took the leap of faith (although with out a safety net) and tried to make her life happy. In those times, it was almost unheard of. So, I can say that if HE were truly happy in his relationship I would hold no ill will towards him. If he wanted to make it work with us, I would have tried....but at this pont I am tired.

Allow me to take this apart.

 

You're doing the same exact thing your mom did even if it took her awhile to find the "happiness" she deserved. Granted this MM offered you the kind of love and happiness you've dreamed of. He came into your life at a time when you needed it. But with one exception, he was and still married. Still you were willing to take the "leap" that all the happiness and love could be secured with that two letter word "IF".

 

"IF he wanted to make it work with us, I would have tried..." If he didn't or did go on vacation....If he just did this or that.....

 

Accept there is NO safety net in life. Safety net only exists in circus acts. Even with safety nets carefully in placed, performers still fall, get hurt, while some don't survive the fall. There are risks getting involved with a MM/MP or just being the OP. But people do it anyway because the rewards (cloud 9 high effects; promises of sunsets and happily ever after endings) are worth more than the risks, at least in the beginning anyway.

 

Sorry to say this bluntly, spinning, but it's time "grow up". You want happiness? Start digging inside yourself and figure out what makes you tick. You want love? You have to love yourself first? You want genuine loving relationship? Take responshibility. You'll never be able to figure these out if you don't take the time to learn from this experience. And as long as you allow your emotions to rule, and jump from one relationship to the next, you won't see the lesson in any of this.

 

So deal with the anger. Deal with the hurt and whatever else you're feeling. But don't use people in the process. Filling your calendar with dates will not only delay the growing process but a denial and refusal to face head on some of your own short comings and perhaps some painful ones.

[whichwayisup]

This guy isn't ever going to change. He married his OW, who is his current wife. He now has an OW, and he's also had other OW, other than spinning. This cycle of his will never end, because that's who he is. A liar, a serial cheater who can't be happy with just one woman in his life. He won't change, even if he leaves his current wife - Ends up with spinning, it won't be long before he goes chasing for another OW.

[stillafool]

Spinning Wheel, again I'll ask YOU why you don't change your phone number and email address?

 

I found in my past when I was going through a rough breakup that changing this information gave me closure because I knew he wouldn't interrupt my personal space again. Why don't you do that for yourself especially when you have such a mess going on. Simply cut it off!