Should I Stay, Or Should I Go?

[Jilly Bean]

I am at a life crossroad, and struggling with finding the right answer and path.

 

The short of if is that I left my very happy east coast life 4.5 years ago to move west closer to my folks when my Dad got sick. I felt like someone needed to step up and show the support and certainly my sister was not going to do so.

 

But, another layer to all of this is that I have always felt infantilized by my parents. I am the baby of the family, and very much get treated as such (mainly in the way that they still expect me to spend my free and social time with them - more than would be expected from even close, Italian families.), even though I am the most successful and self-sufficient of the kids.

 

It's more that my Mom has always done a wonderful job of putting the hex on ANY guy I have ever been involved with, even to go to the extent once of telling me that if I stayed with my then BF, I was out of the family and my folks would never talk to me again. I was young, and not happy to say that I allowed the manipulation, caved and left him. Still, the BIGGEST regret of my life, as he truly WAS the love of my life.

 

Point is, I have always felt like she needs me to stay single in order to be there for her. Her emotional needs are great, and not met by my Dad, so I always had to step in, and have. And obviously to the exclusion of my own life, at this point.

 

So, here I am, living in an area I have never liked, with limited friends nearby, and the looming threat of my sister moving to town (this STILL causes unreal disruption in the whole family dynamic for everyone), and seriously considering moving back east where I know I will be happy.

 

I am trying to reconcile how I will feel about the guilt of abandoning them towards the end of their lives, yet, I still feel miserable about depriving myself of a life and feel like my soul is slowing slipping away and dying.

 

Can anyone relate to this at all?

[Stockalone]

If you have felt this way for some time now and the problems with your sister are just a catalyst to those feelings, then I think you should move back east. But are you sure that you don't just feel like that because of your sister? Would you feel the same way without her (or the threat of her moving near you) in the picture?

 

Maybe take a vacation to sort those feelings out without having close contact with your family, to see what your heart tells you.

 

That your mother would sabotage your relationships so that you have enough spare time to fulfil your parents needs seems hard to believe. Do you really think that is the case?

 

Aren't Italian moms supposed to want their children to get married so they can have lots of grandchildren.

 

Seriously though, maybe she is only looking out for you, even though that is not to your benefit. She may not even realize it, but you said it yourself, you are the baby of the family. The youngest one tends to be the one who will always be looked after the most. I do the same thing with my youngest sister (well, I am not sabotaging her relationships, but I fall back into the older brother routine). It is hard not to do it, even if she is now a grown woman who can make her own decisions.

 

In that case, getting some space between your mom and yourself geographically might not be the worst idea. She would only be a phone call away and you could still take care of some of her emotional needs. But she wouldn't be able to monopolise your spare time like it seems to be the case now.

[Jilly Bean]

Thanks, Stock.

 

I know it sounds absurd about her not wanting me to get married, but I am convinced.

 

When I was living with my ex, aka, love of my life, she wrote me a letter saying that since my folks didn't approve of me living with him, they were writing me off. About a year later, when I was no longer with him, we were at my Aunt's and she was complaining about her daughter dating this loser. My Mom piped in and said, "well, I was able to get Jilly away from her BF!" And she was smiling, and preening like a peacock. I'll never forget it.

 

Another example, and more recent, when I first moved out here, I was dating someone who I invited to Thanksgiving at my house (I host). My Mom said that if he came, my folks would not come.

 

There are many other instances of her dropping the poison pill on my love life.

 

Is my feelings towards my sister contributing? Perhaps. Only in the way that I am so disappointed in the inequity of the treatment. I feel incredibly unappreciated for all that I have done, and DO do for them, that I am questioning how noble it has been to kowtow to them and give up my life. It seemed like a better idea when I felt like it was appreciated, but when I see how she gets treated and her contribution to the family, I have to question my continued motives.

 

I have never had the strength to really cut the ties with them (with the infantilization issues, I mean), but lately, I am really questioning why I still stay out here.

 

I don't want to be 50 with a lot of bitterness in giving up my happiness for them. Spinsterhood and loneliness is not an attractive outcome.

 

I am trying to get back east in the next month for a visit, so yes, I agree with you on that move. Even to have the distance to sort things out better.

 

Thanks again.

[Stockalone]

Thanks, Stock.

 

I know it sounds absurd about her not wanting me to get married, but I am convinced.

 

When I was living with my ex, aka, love of my life, she wrote me a letter saying that since my folks didn't approve of me living with him, they were writing me off. About a year later, when I was no longer with him, we were at my Aunt's and she was complaining about her daughter dating this loser. My Mom piped in and said, "well, I was able to get Jilly away from her BF!" And she was smiling, and preening like a peacock. I'll never forget it.

 

Another example, and more recent, when I first moved out here, I was dating someone who I invited to Thanksgiving at my house (I host). My Mom said that if he came, my folks would not come.

 

Don't let your bf's meet your folks, problem solved. Just kidding, although, I never brought a gf home to meet my parents. One of the biggest mistakes I ever made.

 

I can understand that family or friends would voice objections, but only in very troubling circumstances would I expect a "him or us".

 

In your mother's defence, if she really believes that she "saved" you from making a huge mistake, then it is only natural that she would be proud of it. Thus telling your aunt that due to her intervention, you no longer date a loser.

 

Are you perhaps not traditional enough for your parents' taste? Like living with a guy before you are married or something like that.

 

Has your mom told you why she did this, given you a reason what she felt was so horribly wrong with your bf's so she put you in a position to choose between your bf and your family?

 

In such situations, friends and/or family might have a point. But I would only listen to what my family/friends have to say because I believe they have my best interests at heart.

 

Then again, you are convinced that your mom is manipulating you do to what is best for her, not necessarily for you. That is a very unpleasant thought and I am sorry that you are feeling that way. I don't know what else to say.

 

 

Is my feelings towards my sister contributing? Perhaps. Only in the way that I am so disappointed in the inequity of the treatment. I feel incredibly unappreciated for all that I have done, and DO do for them, that I am questioning how noble it has been to kowtow to them and give up my life. It seemed like a better idea when I felt like it was appreciated, but when I see how she gets treated and her contribution to the family, I have to question my continued motives.

 

Well, it seems like your sister has mental problems from what I remember. Maybe they give her some leeway because of her condition.

 

On a personal level, I think I can relate at least a little bit, even though my situation is fairly trivial.

 

My father lives in the same part of the city as my grandma, her other kids moved away. Since I moved back in with my parents, I have taken over the role to drive grandma to the see the doc when she has to, drive her to her sunday afternoon coffee meetings with her friends, buy groceries, etc.

 

My sister has a bf and horrible working hours, so she doesn't have the time to drive her. My cousins live too far away to do it. So it would either be my parents or me doing those things for her.

 

Sometimes, she makes appointments without even asking if someone can drive her at that time. And she can go on and on about how one of my cousins called her or came to visit her for an hour. Nothing wrong with that, but I sometimes wonder if she forgets that I also have to take time out of my day to drive her around.

 

Obviously, that is not nearly as bad as your situation, but I guess it is human nature to sometimes take things for granted. Who knows, maybe my grandma tells my cousins when they call, that I (almost) always drive her when she needs a ride. Maybe I should ask them the next time I see them.

 

 

I have never had the strength to really cut the ties with them (with the infantilization issues, I mean), but lately, I am really questioning why I still stay out here.

 

I don't want to be 50 with a lot of bitterness in giving up my happiness for them. Spinsterhood and loneliness is not an attractive outcome.

 

I am surprised to hear that. I wouldn't have thought that you are afraid to speak your mind.

 

Are you really afraid to end up alone or is it just preventive sarcasm when you run into some bad luck with dating/relationships?

 

I assume it is the latter, which is not a major problem in my opinion. Unless you make an effort to avoid it, you will not be alone for long and those thoughts will pass.

 

 

I am trying to get back east in the next month for a visit, so yes, I agree with you on that move. Even to have the distance to sort things out better.

 

Thanks again.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of a neutral side for the vacation. But some time away, regardless of location, might be helpful to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

 

Abandonment is a very strong term. Can you see yourself talking to your mom over the phone, being there for her that way, without thinking of it as abandonment and feeling guilty?

 

I still have trouble with the concept of your mother sabotaging your relationships on purpose for her own selfish reasons. However, if that is what is happening, then moving away and making your own life a priority is the right thing to do.

[daphne]

I can totally relate.

 

The ex love of my life asked me last year if my father told me to break up with him. I told him, yes. He admitted that it was the right decision, but he was pained in saying so. We still love each other, and it worked out for both of us. But meddling parents are a pain.

 

I'm also the youngest, the one who was most successful, and the one closest to my father. He is highly manipulative, controlling and abusive if I don't do the things he think I should do. He has leukemia, and although it pains me, I'm backing off of any relationship with him. Even when I just occasionally talk to him, he has even more venom because he knows he's losing control. It's very difficult. Expect to be on the receiving end of your mother possibly upping the ante.

 

I think you have given them much more than a lot of children would have. You have given them your years in your youth to make them happy. Make yourself happy while you're still young. If you really know that what you want to do is to move back East, do it. I waited too long to cut the chord, so now I feel utter resentment towards my father for disrespecting me. Btw, he treats my older sister who is a headcase with more respect.

 

If I had known then what I know now, I would have cut the chord a long, long time ago.

[melodymatters]

Sorry Jilly, for being so curt, but family health issues call. ( another f'in seizure !)

 

 

MOVE BACK, if you'll be happier. We only have one life and AS A PARENT, i would NEVER expect my daughter to make life sacrifices based on my needs.

 

A parent who does that, is not fully healthy and whole, but that does not mean YOU shouldn't work to be so....

 

Good luck, keep me updated....

 

MM

[Jilly Bean]

In your mother's defence, if she really believes that she "saved" you from making a huge mistake, then it is only natural that she would be proud of it. Thus telling your aunt that due to her intervention, you no longer date a loser.

 

They had no legitimate reason to not like my ex. We were deeply in love, he was working on his masters degree, had a killer job, had never been in prison - lol, didn't have a drug problem, etc. He was a great guy, and highly likeable.

 

Are you perhaps not traditional enough for your parents' taste? Like living with a guy before you are married or something like that.

 

Yes, he moved in with me a week and a half after we met, and I was only 23. I'm sure if I did that today, it wouldn't raise such an eyebrow.

 

Has your mom told you why she did this, given you a reason what she felt was so horribly wrong with your bf's so she put you in a position to choose between your bf and your family?

 

With my ex, she said it was because she didn't support us living together or our choice to do so. For the Thanksgiving guy, it was because he was *gasp* black. Which is ironic, because when I was 18, I dated a pro footballer player who was black, and my Mom was very encouraged (at the time) that I didn't share my parents racism. Pfft.

 

In such situations, friends and/or family might have a point. But I would only listen to what my family/friends have to say because I believe they have my best interests at heart.

 

Then again, you are convinced that your mom is manipulating you do to what is best for her, not necessarily for you. That is a very unpleasant thought and I am sorry that you are feeling that way. I don't know what else to say.

 

 

 

 

Well, it seems like your sister has mental problems from what I remember. Maybe they give her some leeway because of her condition.

 

That they do. And it's funny - the more I talk about this situation with my RL friends, or those via PM on LS, the more I hear about similar family dynamics. The strong being ignored, and the weak being coddled. Im not a parent, but it seems so wrong to me. I have always been more the type to reward the deserving.

 

On a personal level, I think I can relate at least a little bit, even though my situation is fairly trivial.

 

My father lives in the same part of the city as my grandma, her other kids moved away. Since I moved back in with my parents, I have taken over the role to drive grandma to the see the doc when she has to, drive her to her sunday afternoon coffee meetings with her friends, buy groceries, etc.

 

My sister has a bf and horrible working hours, so she doesn't have the time to drive her. My cousins live too far away to do it. So it would either be my parents or me doing those things for her.

 

Sometimes, she makes appointments without even asking if someone can drive her at that time. And she can go on and on about how one of my cousins called her or came to visit her for an hour. Nothing wrong with that, but I sometimes wonder if she forgets that I also have to take time out of my day to drive her around.

 

Obviously, that is not nearly as bad as your situation, but I guess it is human nature to sometimes take things for granted. Who knows, maybe my grandma tells my cousins when they call, that I (almost) always drive her when she needs a ride. Maybe I should ask them the next time I see them.

 

Well, it is quite similar in that you also feel unappreciated for being the one to "step up". It's not a nice feeling to not be duly noted for doing what you do. The difference is that I am sure you are not feeling like you are missing out on living your own life because of these choices. I am sure you can see how my resentment is growing.

 

 

I am surprised to hear that. I wouldn't have thought that you are afraid to speak your mind.

 

Oh, I speak my mind, but it tends to get poo poo'ed. When I have talked about moving in the past, I have gotten the huge guilt trip. And I caved again.

 

Are you really afraid to end up alone or is it just preventive sarcasm when you run into some bad luck with dating/relationships?

 

I know that in 4 and a half years of living here, I have not much to show for it on the relationship/friendship front. And I know that's because I just don't mesh with the west coast types. I do feel like my best years are slipping away, and yes, I do know that living back east would put me back in the thick of my *once happy and wonderful* life.

 

I assume it is the latter, which is not a major problem in my opinion. Unless you make an effort to avoid it, you will not be alone for long and those thoughts will pass.

 

See above - lol. I just miss east coast men and women. The men are fabulously manly and the women are intelligent and caring. I hate to stereotype, but I have found most of the west coast people I have met to have a different idea of friendship and a different concept of "pithy".

 

I was thinking more along the lines of a neutral side for the vacation. But some time away, regardless of location, might be helpful to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

 

Yes, but we have Red Sox play-offs to consider. lol. Not to mention my two paramours I would love to see...

 

Abandonment is a very strong term. Can you see yourself talking to your mom over the phone, being there for her that way, without thinking of it as abandonment and feeling guilty?

 

I would of course STILL be there for both of them in any way I could be. Just as I was before I moved out here.

 

I still have trouble with the concept of your mother sabotaging your relationships on purpose for her own selfish reasons. However, if that is what is happening, then moving away and making your own life a priority is the right thing to do.

 

I know - its hard to admit, and even harder to swallow. It's strange. Last year, when I was dating Dr. Poo Breath, I found out his Dad died of ALS. When I mentioned that to my folks, my Mom WENT OFF. Just dropped a major poison pill - why would I want to date him if he was going to die young, my kids would have it, on and on. It's just what she does, and I cant come up with any other conclusion than her own needs to sabotage every guy I have ever dated that she knew about. Believe me, its a pretty ugly thing to imagine.

[Jilly Bean]

I can totally relate.

 

The ex love of my life asked me last year if my father told me to break up with him. I told him, yes. He admitted that it was the right decision, but he was pained in saying so. We still love each other, and it worked out for both of us. But meddling parents are a pain.

 

My ex knew that he was driving a wedge between me and my folks (well, PERCEIVED wedge, as my Mom created it), and it hurt him terribly as he couldn't understand why they didn't like him. Truly - the BIGGEST regret of my whole life. He was THE ONE.

 

I'm also the youngest, the one who was most successful, and the one closest to my father. He is highly manipulative, controlling and abusive if I don't do the things he think I should do. He has leukemia, and although it pains me, I'm backing off of any relationship with him. Even when I just occasionally talk to him, he has even more venom because he knows he's losing control. It's very difficult. Expect to be on the receiving end of your mother possibly upping the ante.

 

Gosh - I'm sorry to hear that! I can totally relate to the pain of that. And yes, my Mom has already threatened to cut me out of the will if I were to leave. Right now, my parents are calling my bluff about leaving by telling me they would miss me, and they are sorry to see me go. I know when they see the FOR SALE sign outside, the issues will change, as you pointed out.

 

I think you have given them much more than a lot of children would have. You have given them your years in your youth to make them happy. Make yourself happy while you're still young. If you really know that what you want to do is to move back East, do it. I waited too long to cut the chord, so now I feel utter resentment towards my father for disrespecting me. Btw, he treats my older sister who is a headcase with more respect.

 

If I had known then what I know now, I would have cut the chord a long, long time ago.

 

Wow - so we both also have the crazy older sibling, too! lol. Yes, I do feel resentment building. Again, because I feel my efforts have NOT been as appreciated as I would have hoped. I am VERY close to my Dad, and he is far cooler about things, but my Mom will flat out be a douche if she doesn't get her way, and will manipulate the situation. I know her big fear is being left alone, but I dont know how much longer I can pander to this. Once they are dead, and knowing my Mom, she will hold on to her 90s like my Nana, I will be the adult, infantilized child of 75 who is still having an early bird special with her Mom on a Friday afternoon after hitting the local casino.

[Jilly Bean]

Sorry Jilly, for being so curt, but family health issues call. ( another f'in seizure !)

 

 

MOVE BACK, if you'll be happier. We only have one life and AS A PARENT, i would NEVER expect my daughter to make life sacrifices based on my needs.

 

A parent who does that, is not fully healthy and whole, but that does not mean YOU shouldn't work to be so....

 

Good luck, keep me updated....

 

MM

 

Oh, no Mel! I am SO sorry to hear that! Please keep ME updated on your honey!

 

I just know as long as I live close to them, I will never be able to be "an adult". I will always be the manipulated one who is expected to live her life for them, regardless of my own needs.

 

You are right - everyone says I need to go.

 

The hard part is leaving a parent who has cancer... THAT is what changes all of it, and is what brought me out here to begin with. I said I would be here to the end, but now Im not so sure thats wise for me...

[daphne]

I hear you on the cancer issue. In itself, it's guilt inducing. Ugh.

 

I have found that one tradeoff for letting my dad manipulate and belittle was that I got to blame him in my head for poor decision making. Now, I just have me. It's actually a lot better that way. Who knew? I don't beat myself up like he does when I make a (perceived) mistake. So far no biggies. And they're MINE.

 

Btw, I have been planning to move out West (colorado) next year and what you said about west coasters struck me. I've heard they're not quite as friendly as east coasters, but what's your impression? I'm in the southeast and there's much to like, but I'm kind of tired of it.

[Jilly Bean]

I hear you on the cancer issue. In itself, it's guilt inducing. Ugh.

 

I have found that one tradeoff for letting my dad manipulate and belittle was that I got to blame him in my head for poor decision making. Now, I just have me. It's actually a lot better that way. Who knew? I don't beat myself up like he does when I make a (perceived) mistake. So far no biggies. And they're MINE.

 

Btw, I have been planning to move out West (colorado) next year and what you said about west coasters struck me. I've heard they're not quite as friendly as east coasters, but what's your impression? I'm in the southeast and there's much to like, but I'm kind of tired of it.

 

We are very similar, Daphne. Though my folks don't belittle me or blame me, they just blindly turn their heads to my unhappiness so long as I continue to wear a happy face around them. THEN its ok.

 

West coasters are friendly, but IMO, intensely superficially. I have had, and still do, a lot of "friends" out here, but they are social friends only. The type you go clubbing with, or bar hopping with, or to Vegas with... but, sit down and discuss life issues? Talk about, for instance, the topic we are discussing here? Nope. My experience has not been good in this regard. To me, east coasters are just a lot deeper, and the type of friends you have forever, not the fair-weather types.

[OpenBook]

Move back East... or move to the Midwest, Northeast, Deep South, Mexico - ANYWHERE away from them. You owe them nothing. They are a toxic influence on your life. Family should never make you feel like your soul is dying. If they do, get away from them. You can love them from a healthy distance.

[D-Lish]

Please... it's time to move.

Do this for yourself.

 

It's a positive move.

I know you already know this... but it helps to get encouragement.

 

Give yourself permission to be happy, and pursue the move.

It's a good choice- and I don't think you'll regret it.

[carhill]

Wow, Jilly, wish I could give you a hug. Mother/daughter bonding is so strong and I can hear the pain in your posts....

 

Does your mom by chance have diabetes?

 

If you move and ignore this conflict, do you think you'll have unfinished business with your mom later, perhaps if she becomes terminally ill and dies? Or, do you feel good where you are now; mindful of the dynamic but comfortable within yourself?

 

I know what you mean about Westies... I am one Whenever I wish to discuss topics of consequence, I do a mileage run to see my east coast friends

 

Hang in there!

[Jilly Bean]

Move back East... or move to the Midwest, Northeast, Deep South, Mexico - ANYWHERE away from them. You owe them nothing. They are a toxic influence on your life. Family should never make you feel like your soul is dying. If they do, get away from them. You can love them from a healthy distance.

 

Well, why do I feel like I *do* owe them something, though? Where does that come from?

 

THAT is what I am struggling with. Trying to bridge the chasm between my filial obligations, and wanting to live my own, big girl life.

 

Being out here, I feel like my life is over. Like all of my options are gone, and all I have to look forward to is caring for them in their final days.

 

And it's not soley my family making me feel like my soul was dying - my environment out here has a lot to do with it.

 

That being said, when they were a 3 hour drive away, things seemed to work out ok. lol

[Jilly Bean]

Please... it's time to move.

Do this for yourself.

 

It's a positive move.

I know you already know this... but it helps to get encouragement.

 

Give yourself permission to be happy, and pursue the move.

It's a good choice- and I don't think you'll regret it.

 

I know, D. I am in agreement it is the right thing to do, I am just so torn up over it.

 

I feel like by doing right by me, that I am letting them down.

 

It comes down to who do I put first, and it's always been them, and now I am having a hard time doing it for me.

 

This SUCKS.

 

Thanks for the encouragement.

[Jilly Bean]

Wow, Jilly, wish I could give you a hug. Mother/daughter bonding is so strong and I can hear the pain in your posts....

 

Does your mom by chance have diabetes?

 

If you move and ignore this conflict, do you think you'll have unfinished business with your mom later, perhaps if she becomes terminally ill and dies? Or, do you feel good where you are now; mindful of the dynamic but comfortable within yourself?

 

I know what you mean about Westies... I am one Whenever I wish to discuss topics of consequence, I do a mileage run to see my east coast friends

 

Hang in there!

 

Thanks, Carhill. I'm feeling the virtual hug! lol

 

My Mom is healthy - it's my Dad who has cancer.

 

I don't want to move and ignore the conflict. But, I also know that it won't be resolved unless I *man up* and leave.

 

I hate where I am now, and I hate the dynamic. I struggle with feeling like I am abandoning them when I know how much they like having me around. But again, my presence here is for their benefit, and has never done anything for me. Quite the opposite.

 

Thats where its at, Carhill. Move and make myself happy and feel intensely guilt-ridden for feeling like I am walking out on them, OR, stay, continue to give up my life, and build resentment as I live for their needs and not my own.

[shadowplay]

 

That your mother would sabotage your relationships so that you have enough spare time to fulfil your parents needs seems hard to believe. Do you really think that is the case?

 

Aren't Italian moms supposed to want their children to get married so they can have lots of grandchildren.

 

 

Why is that hard to believe? I come from an Italian family too and see those dynamics in the way my mother is treated by relates to her parents.

[rod_in_gtown]

Come back to the east coast, it's less shaky over here. Plus I'm GREAT with parents

[Jilly Bean]

Come back to the east coast, it's less shaky over here. Plus I'm GREAT with parents

 

LOL!

 

Like I need anymore incentive than your hot legs? Plus, you know I am only 5'6" - so even in heels, we'll be fine.

 

P.S. And no more mentioning my romantic affairs to my parents.

[rod_in_gtown]

LOL!

 

Like I need anymore incentive than your hot legs? Plus, you know I am only 5'6" - so even in heels, we'll be fine.

 

P.S. And no more mentioning my romantic affairs to my parents.

 

Oh if only *sigh*

[jerbear]

I suggest go.

 

I understand why you don't want to be an 75 forelorn woman taking care of your mom. You want to live life.

 

As much as we love our parents and the grieves that they give us in the process. Sometimes we just really have to move on.

 

If your older sister is coming to town then let her and you move on. Your sister will take care of your parents.

[Jilly Bean]

Thanks, OJB. I appreciate the support.

 

So, if I go, how do I reconcile the guilt?

 

And WHY is that I still feel the need to please them? Shouldn't that have died a long time ago?

 

I really wish I could understand why I feel so horribly about leaving them. Yes, part of it is my Dad's illness, and knowing how crushed he will be, but still...

 

It occured to me this week that I was totally apathetic about my life not being enjoyed here and then it disturbed me that I didn't care anymore.

 

Now I just really need to know why I, or any adult child, still feels the need to sublimate themselves for their parents.

 

Is this a normal reaction, or is it that I am so intensely infantilized by them that I THINK this is a normal life?

[johan]

Move to Colorado. You'll be much happier there.

[jerbear]

I think you've touched a point in our upbringing. Children are usually bought up to respect your elders, take care of older people, take care of those you care about (i.e. caretakers, friends,etc..), enjoy the time they have left, regrets of not saying "good bye", and others.

 

The unresolved guilt of any size will always be there.

 

Sometimes it is hard to stop the perpetual cycle.