The new sexual revolution: Porn, Swingers, and shifting moralities

[morelaugh]

morelaugh, you can only control so much, especially within the lives of teenagers. The more you put a strangle-hold on them and their environments, the harder they'll rebel when they have the chance. Some continue to rebel all their lives, projecting the restrictions from parents, to "the man".

 

You have to rely on their good judgement, the good judgement based on foundations that you personally have laid for them.

 

If they're been given the strength and confidence, they're not going to allow pop culture to affect them in ways that are detrimental to their well-being. Sure, they'll make some mistakes on the way but gain experience. We all have to learn some way.

 

But that is exactly what I’m saying!

 

You do the best you can and hope for the best.

 

When it comes to parenting, the line between education (positive) and control (negative) is very fine. To 'give someone strength and confidence' is not as easy as it sounds. There is no a set of instructions that you can follow. Every child is different, every situation is different. Sometimes you have to discipline them, sometimes you have to let go - and you never know if you are doing the right thing at the moment.

 

Again, in theory, you are absolutely right. How you do that in practice is one of every parent’s challenge. If there was hard and fast rule how to achieve that, parenting would be easy.

 

The society will have some influence on our kids and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

[Trialbyfire]

Hush...we're addressing in generalized parenting terms, the over-sexuality of pop culture and societal expectations of women tied into pornography and polyamory. Didn't you catch that?

[morelaugh]

This Thread began in praise of polyamory and has evolved into an earnest discussion of proper parenting and moral foundations.

 

That's the Shack.

You're right - I'll stop here.

[morelaugh]

Hush...we're addressing in generalized parenting terms, the over-sexuality of pop culture and societal expectations of women tied into pornography and polyamory. Didn't you catch that?

:laugh:

[Trialbyfire]

But that is exactly what I’m saying!

 

You do the best you can and hope for the best.

 

When it comes to parenting, the line between education (positive) and control (negative) is very fine. To 'give someone strength and confidence' is not as easy as it sounds. There is no a set of instructions that you can follow. Every child is different, every situation is different. Sometimes you have to discipline them, sometimes you have to let go - and you never know if you are doing the right thing at the moment.

 

Again, in theory, you are absolutely right. How you do that in practice is one of every parent’s challenge. If there was hard and fast rule how to achieve that, parenting would be easy.

 

The society will have some influence on our kids and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

So what do you propose? That you try to control society or that it's society's fault that young people go astray? As a parent, you have a greater responsibility to your children than society does.

[morelaugh]

So what do you propose? That you try to control society or that it's society's fault that young people go astray? As a parent, you have a greater responsibility to your children than society does.

I said I’d stop, but just quickly :

I’ll continue to influence my sons and their friends the best I can.

 

Also, I think we are all responsible for what is happening in the society – we ARE the society.

 

Everything can change and the society is not constant, it is evolving and we all and our actions contribute to it.

 

If we all do our best and not our worst, society will inevitably change to be better, and to be better influence to our kids. At least, this is what I beleive.

 

To answer your question, what I propose is:

try to change the bad in the society, don’t condone it and act helpless, don't underestimate its influence to all of us.

[OpenBook]

Morelaugh, I'm with you. It takes the actual real-life experience of raising a child to really understand this issue of society's influence on your kids. There's no subsitute. People who haven't been through raising a kid can preach and judge and condescend to parents all day long. There's just no way you can explain it to them, and no way for them to understand it fully, until they've actually done it themselves.

[OpenBook]

To the original poster: This is not your target audience.

 

Rather, you're being whipsawed by the anger of the Shack's Religious Right and the scorn and ridicule of bright, experienced women who detect in you a mid-life crisis and sexual opportunism.

 

My advice: get thee to a site whose posters are more receptive to your swing song.

 

The Shack don't swing.

 

:lmao::lmao: Grogmeister, you've got me pegged. This girl don't swing. But this thread makes me wonder if there's any truth that swinging is becoming more mainstream?? I haven't heard more about it as I've gotten older. But that doesn't mean it ain't happening out there, among all those wild-n-crazy baby boomers!

[grogster]

:lmao::lmao: Grogmeister, you've got me pegged. This girl don't swing. But this thread makes me wonder if there's any truth that swinging is becoming more mainstream?? I haven't heard more about it as I've gotten older. But that doesn't mean it ain't happening out there, among all those wild-n-crazy baby boomers!

 

I don't know, OpenBook. Swinging, like racial prejudice, is not something that most of us openly admit. My best guess--the relative percentage has remained stable.

 

My evidence is all anecdotal. My last GF was involved in the San Francisco BDSM swinging scene (this sounds more intense than it was). By the time we hooked up, she was through swinging (I always end up with women after their bad old days ), but mildly open to a threesome. Alas, even that was not to be. Perhaps next time.

 

As for nonparents lecturing parents on child raising, one simply has to look on in bemusement.

[Jersey Shortie]

But that is exactly what I’m saying!

 

You do the best you can and hope for the best.

 

When it comes to parenting, the line between education (positive) and control (negative) is very fine. To 'give someone strength and confidence' is not as easy as it sounds. There is no a set of instructions that you can follow. Every child is different, every situation is different. Sometimes you have to discipline them, sometimes you have to let go - and you never know if you are doing the right thing at the moment.

 

Again, in theory, you are absolutely right. How you do that in practice is one of every parent’s challenge. If there was hard and fast rule how to achieve that, parenting would be easy.

 

The society will have some influence on our kids and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

 

 

 

I compleletly agree.

 

I think if people think the are uninfluenced by society, they are being navie.

 

And I have a questoin for the men out there with daughters, do you want your daughter to have relatoinships with men that use porn that refer to women as sluts and whore? Or is that something men just don't really care about?

[Trialbyfire]

As for nonparents lecturing parents on child raising, one simply has to look on in bemusement.

Since baby boomers are responsible for the state of society and pop culture, creating the self-entitled generation, it's interesting to see how it's society's fault that children are going astray.

[OpenBook]

And I have a questoin for the men out there with daughters, do you want your daughter to have relatoinships with men that use porn that refer to women as sluts and whore? Or is that something men just don't really care about?

 

Jersey, I highly doubt you'll hear from men about this... but I just wanted to throw in my own observations. I've seen men who are complete misogynists to the women in their lives - and are absolutely wonderful fathers to their daughters, teaching them to be independent and not let anyone take advantage of them. It is particularly noticeable in some of the wealthy middle-Eastern families. They send their daughters to Harvard, Yale, etc. and these are extremely strong and bright young women.

 

Something about a daughter weaving her way through her father's heart, it's one of the strongest bonds I've ever seen.

 

And it's one of those unexplainable mysteries that completely befuddles me.

[Jersey Shortie]

Which is a beautiful thing Openbook, a man wanting something for his daughter such as love, respect and education. But if you think about it, a daughter is by essence, an extention of himself. So one can understand him wanting to give things to a daughter that he himself would want for himself, as she came from him. That being the case, you have to wonder if that is true respect for women or respect for himself indirectly from something that was once a part of him. Is he really respecting women and even his daughter, or is he respecting himself indirectly through the child that is his by blood?

 

No man is helping his daughter by supporting a industry that is pretty misognistic and degrading to women. Neither is any husband, uncle, grandfather, boyfriend for that matter. And do you know how I know most men do infact thing porn is degrading to women? Because I don't know one man that would actually want his daughter to live that life or have men view her that way.

 

At the end of the day, if you think women are angry and bitter towards men sometimes, look at what men have proven about women and the kind of face value respect we deserve. While behind closed doors it has become some kind of guy code that it is okay to treat women one way that is less deserving of treating her as a human being. Unless there is any man out there that wouldn't mind and even like for his daughter to end up porn, which I highly doubt, it seems that there is one group of rules for all other woman while he wants to preserve another group of rules for his own daughter. Unfortunetly, life does not work like that. Because there will be other men out there that will treat her exactly as he as a man has treated other women with little regard and as only a means to provide sex.

 

So I will ask the question again but I do suspect you are right that no man will answer. Do men want their own daughters to be having relationships with men that look at porn of other women that is often degrading and refers to women in negative names? Is that the best women can hope for from men? Consider the type of porn that is easy to view today with the internet, do you really want your daughters having relationship with young men that grew up on the kind of porn that is now easy to view?

[demrea]

i must admit that I continue to get a better understanding of Jersey's point and would like to acknowledge how well she articulates her position.

 

this was an interesting thread.

[The Collector]

So I will ask the question again but I do suspect you are right that no man will answer. Do men want their own daughters to be having relationships with men that look at porn of other women that is often degrading and refers to women in negative names? Is that the best women can hope for from men? Consider the type of porn that is easy to view today with the internet, do you really want your daughters having relationship with young men that grew up on the kind of porn that is now easy to view?

 

I don't have any daughters, but have some young female relatives I love dearly. I am quite happy with the fact that they will one day turn into adults who may enjoy porn themselves. Your view of porn as being automatically degrading and demeaning to women is not one I share, as you know.

 

However, it's well known that many fathers are uncomfortable with their daughters reaching any sort of sexual maturity, loving and wholesome, or 'dirty and porny'.

[mental_traveller]

Anything that makes women feel more comfortable with sexual deviancy and promiscuity is fine with me.

[Jersey Shortie]

i must admit that I continue to get a better understanding of Jersey's point and would like to acknowledge how well she articulates her position.

 

this was an interesting thread.

 

 

Thank you Demrea.

 

I don't have any daughters, but have some young female relatives I love dearly. I am quite happy with the fact that they will one day turn into adults who may enjoy porn themselves. Your view of porn as being automatically degrading and demeaning to women is not one I share, as you know.

 

However, it's well known that many fathers are uncomfortable with their daughters reaching any sort of sexual maturity, loving and wholesome, or 'dirty and porny'.

 

My question never was if you were okay with your daughters or close family reliatives watching porn or being sexual by nature of growing up. And while most fathers are uncomfortable with the idea of their daughters maturing seuxality, that is a far cry from how a man would actually feel if she actually was in a porno. Which was what the orginal question was about. So I really don't understand what your reply has to do with my qoute as it addresses nothing that I brought up.

 

Would most men want their daughters physically performing in a porn? Heck no. Because most men understand the inherent demeaning nature of how porn treats women. Coming of age sexuality as nothing to do with the question. If you are a man that does not think porn is demeaning, then I see no reason why a man would worry about his daughter being in one. The fact that most men would never want someone they reall cared about invovled in porn speaks volumes about how men really feel about the way porn treats women. And I can't honestly rationally belieive that most men believe that porn is kind to women, respects them or gives them great oppurtunity in life.

 

The question is also if men want their daughters to be having relationships with young men that do infact view porn. Consider the amount and level of porn that is out there today that young men are making a regular part of their life, even more then their fathers, and ask yourself if you want them to be having relationships with your daughters. Next time you are watching a porno and you see one girl inbetween two guys having sex with both of them at the same time, that could have very easily been your daughter in that. Sorry, but it could. And again I am sorry but you can't honestly believe that woman in that movie, regardless if she is being paid, is being treated the way a woman should be treated or that that woman isn't being used for anything more then a penis socket. I also think most men understand that most women connect sex with other emotions. And Most women that sell themselves so freely, having sex with men that don't care about them for money, realize the inherent disrespect with that.

[The Collector]

The question of yours I quoted was entirely about daughters watching porn or being with a man who watches porn. If they don't like porn, they need to find a man that doesn't watch it. Anyone can see that my post was directly in answer to the question you posted and I quoted.

 

As for whether a father would want his daughter appearing in porn, probably not. But not because he thinks she's being abused or demeaned, but because he has issues with his daughter loving sex and can't bear to see her being ****ed. It stirs up some difficult issues. Mothers are not going to be overjoyed if their sons end up porn actors either. It's just not viewed as a high status job, and morale being what they are, difficult to brag about to the neighbours and friends.

 

You may find it impossible to believe JS, but if I had a daughter I'd accept that she will one day be a sexual being who might enjoy a threesome, or having a face full of cum. It's you, and your Catholic upbringing, that make a big deal about sex being sinful or shameful. It's all perfectly normal, even if it involves role-play where the woman is called a slut or a whore... big deal. We all come from a cunt full of cum you know.

[The Collector]

PS, can't believe sh*t is asterixed, but we can say cunt? Cool.

[Sks]

"sexual beings", that's a metaphor for "I can rationalize anything I do or someone else does in a sexual context",

 

I wouldn't want a future daughter of mine to be a porn star as I view it goes against what should naturally occur - which is a sustained relationship with a single partner.

 

In wild animals - females are much more important, its only with humans that the concept of gang banging, wife sharing and 3 ways exist.

 

Pornography can be amusing as it dehumanizes the girl involved, she is simply something I can amuse myself with but which has no worth or value.

[The Collector]

My response to women in porn is not 'haha you stupid slut you just got used and abused' but rather 'thank you ms hottie for letting me see your sexual side. I am grateful that such liberated women as yourself are willing to share the awesome power of your sexuality. You rock.'

 

But that's just me.

[Sks]

My response to women in porn is not 'haha you stupid slut you just got used and abused' but rather 'thank you ms hottie for letting me see your sexual side. I am grateful that such liberated women as yourself are willing to share the awesome power of your sexuality. You rock.'

 

But that's just me.

 

You see her as a tool to get off to? That is only how I see females who are in porn. It is inherently degrading, she has no self worth beyond being a tool to get off to.

 

I am certainly not on a mission to stop porn, but to say it is some how liberating or fulfilling to the people involved is just wrong.

[Jersey Shortie]

But not because he thinks she's being abused or demeaned, but because he has issues with his daughter loving sex and can't bear to see her being ****ed.

 

You are the exception. I don't think the majority of men would say that his little girl wasn't being demeaned by being in a jack off video that millions of other men are only using to squeeze one out. There is a stigma associated with it for a reason and I hate to tell you but it wasn't only woman that put that stigma there.

 

 

 

You may find it impossible to believe JS, but if I had a daughter I'd accept that she will one day be a sexual being who might enjoy a threesome, or having a face full of cum. It's you, and your Catholic upbringing, that make a big deal about sex being sinful or shameful. It's all perfectly normal, even if it involves role-play where the woman is called a slut or a whore... big deal. We all come from a cunt full of cum you know.

 

Yeah, I never said sex was sinful or shameful. I love sex. I love being sexual with my partner. My sexuality is not tied to porn to the degree that I feel that I need to love porn to love sex. And it is a big deal to me that women are demeaned and called sluts and whores. I don't know one man that loves a bunch of women sitting around making moves of men being called names and degraded and used. Can you imagine mother's around the world making fake fantasy porn videos glamerizing the idea of their son's hot friends that just turned 18 and are now legal to have sex with? I certaintly can't. How many movies of that are out there that cater to men glamerizing 18 year old young girls and exploting them. The sad thing is most women want men to protect them, not exploit them. When it comes to sex it is exploiting the worst in men and in women.

 

We all come from a cunt full of cum? The fact that you can even put that sentence together speaks volumes.

 

You see her as a tool to get off to? That is only how I see females who are in porn. It is inherently degrading, she has no self worth beyond being a tool to get off to.

 

I am certainly not on a mission to stop porn, but to say it is some how liberating or fulfilling to the people involved is just wrong.

 

Exactly.

[soserious1]

I would think that a man would be quite proud of a porn star daughter, that he'd

gather the relatives and friends around and hold special screenings of her first film, that it would be cause to rejoice and celebrate! Look at our Lil Suzie, with that big crowd of guys jerking off on her face ! isn't it exciting?"

[Jersey Shortie]

It could bring a tear to his eye. It probably already brought a tear to Lil Susie's eye with all that sperm flying around in her face.