The new sexual revolution: Porn, Swingers, and shifting moralities

[luvstarved]

For you to tell the rest of us you've never had a sex dream that included people other that your SO is disingenuous.

 

There isn't a single person on the planet, except those who didn't live long enough to start having sex dreams at all, who can say that. That your are claiming it is true is merely evidence that you are so completely devoted to your ridiculous position on human sexuality that you'd say anything, including that which is blatantly untrue, to support that position.

 

Dude, you should have quit while you were ahead. You have gone from bringing up a topic for honest debate and proceeded with telling everyone that they would all be just like you if they were enlightened enough to admit it.

 

Anti-porn people are predictable, close-minded bad guys? Women who are bothered by porn are needy and have low self-esteem and are overly controlling? Only those who believe in porn as a normal and desirable expression of human sexuality have any sense at all! And come on, people, you know deep down you all want it, you are just too repressed to admit that you are just as obsessed with sex as I am!

 

Your attempts at thoughtful debate have deteriorated. You would do well to remember that human sexuality is represented by a continuum, like most things human. There are people clustered around your area of that continuum to be sure, but there are also people at the diametrical opposite. Who may well have not ever had any sex dream of any sort whatsoever. Believe it or not! We're not all you in different disguises!!

 

Furthermore, feelings are not expressions of philosophical ideals! They are involuntary and spontaneous reactions! Hello! Feelings are not inherently right or wrong!

 

Saying that women are wrong for having negative feelings in response to their SO's porn use is so full of s**t! Saying that they have no right to want to be with someone who isn't into it is full of s**t. Saying that there is something "wrong" with them for their feelings and opinions is so full of s**t.

 

You are perfectly entitled, just like every other human being, to have your opinions and your requirements in a mate. You need a woman who thinks screwing around with a variety of people is enlightened and an admirable use of one's precious time, then have at it! Someone else needs a mate that is able to forego the cheap thrills in order to aspire to an exclusive and intimate physical bond with them? Let them have at it!

 

We all have the power and the right to define our own boundaries. Blaming other people for not having the same ones as us or for not being willing to redefine theirs for our sake is just wrong, unless they have misrepresented themselves as having the same. Otherwise, if we allow our boundaries to be violated, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

Life is full of trade-offs and it is obviously hard to find someone who feels exactly as you do on anything. That is where the sacrifice comes in, but only if it is WORTH it to you. If you really love someone who finds some of your behavior objectionable, you don't tell them they are WRONG to feel that way. You either give up the behavior because you love the person more or you give up the person because you love the behavior more.

 

Or you compromise or tolerate or hang on in quiet desperation. Also understandable choices in some circumstances. CHOICES nonetheless, no more or less valid than anyone else's...

[morelaugh]

Dude, you should have quit while you were ahead. You have gone from bringing up a topic for honest debate and proceeded with telling everyone that they would all be just like you if they were enlightened enough to admit it.

 

Anti-porn people are predictable, close-minded bad guys? Women who are bothered by porn are needy and have low self-esteem and are overly controlling? Only those who believe in porn as a normal and desirable expression of human sexuality have any sense at all! And come on, people, you know deep down you all want it, you are just too repressed to admit that you are just as obsessed with sex as I am!

 

Your attempts at thoughtful debate have deteriorated. You would do well to remember that human sexuality is represented by a continuum, like most things human. There are people clustered around your area of that continuum to be sure, but there are also people at the diametrical opposite. Who may well have not ever had any sex dream of any sort whatsoever. Believe it or not! We're not all you in different disguises!!

 

Furthermore, feelings are not expressions of philosophical ideals! They are involuntary and spontaneous reactions! Hello! Feelings are not inherently right or wrong!

 

Saying that women are wrong for having negative feelings in response to their SO's porn use is so full of s**t! Saying that they have no right to want to be with someone who isn't into it is full of s**t. Saying that there is something "wrong" with them for their feelings and opinions is so full of s**t.

 

You are perfectly entitled, just like every other human being, to have your opinions and your requirements in a mate. You need a woman who thinks screwing around with a variety of people is enlightened and an admirable use of one's precious time, then have at it! Someone else needs a mate that is able to forego the cheap thrills in order to aspire to an exclusive and intimate physical bond with them? Let them have at it!

 

We all have the power and the right to define our own boundaries. Blaming other people for not having the same ones as us or for not being willing to redefine theirs for our sake is just wrong, unless they have misrepresented themselves as having the same. Otherwise, if we allow our boundaries to be violated, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

Life is full of trade-offs and it is obviously hard to find someone who feels exactly as you do on anything. That is where the sacrifice comes in, but only if it is WORTH it to you. If you really love someone who finds some of your behavior objectionable, you don't tell them they are WRONG to feel that way. You either give up the behavior because you love the person more or you give up the person because you love the behavior more.

 

Or you compromise or tolerate or hang on in quiet desperation. Also understandable choices in some circumstances. CHOICES nonetheless, no more or less valid than anyone else's...

 

Bravo!

Well said.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Dude, you should have quit while you were ahead. You have gone from bringing up a topic for honest debate and proceeded with telling everyone that they would all be just like you if they were enlightened enough to admit it.

 

You got all that from me calling BS to someone claiming to have never had a dream that involved sex and a person other than their SO??? It's a bald-faced lie, we have all had dreams like that, you, me, everyone. It says nothing about anybodies enlightenment or lack thereof, it's merely a part of the human condition.

 

Anti-porn people are predictable, close-minded bad guys? Women who are bothered by porn are needy and have low self-esteem and are overly controlling?

 

Yes. The arguments that come from the anti-porn crowd are the same every time. As I said, I could have that argument with myself and it would accomplish about as much as having it with someone else. Throughout the years I have known a few men unfortunate enough to be married to women like that, and without exception they were all miserable. Their sex lives were close to non-existent, and the porn thing was far from the only thing their wives were controlling about.

 

Only those who believe in porn as a normal and desirable expression of human sexuality have any sense at all!

 

Indeed, in fact it is a normal and desirable expression of our sexuality.

 

And come on, people, you know deep down you all want it, you are just too repressed to admit that you are just as obsessed with sex as I am!

 

Obsessed? Hardly. Granted, those who know nothing about me but my words in this thread could conclude that, but this is a thread about human sexuality ergo it's unlikely we'd talk about much else. In the real world it's but one facet of my many interests.

 

As for enlightenment... that's actually a subject I've given a lot of thought to. I do believe that many people, indeed most people, have a stunted relationship with their own sexuality. How could they not, with the lessons we get from the time we're old enough to speak the language.

 

We're taught that sex is shameful, that it's immoral, that it's something that we don't speak of in polite company. That masturbation is wrong and that if we have too much sex with too many people, we're going to spend eternity burning in a pit of fire! So, yeah, our sexual growth is severely stunted, especially for the fairer sex as the anti-sex message they receive is 10 times what us Neanderthal men get.

 

I mean, look around. More than half of all marriages end in divorce, and sex issues is at least on the list of problems for an overwhelming majority of those. I've seen studies that claim that as many as 70-80% of marriages have had infidelity issues.

 

So yeah, I don't know if it's about enlightenment, but there are a lot of folks with severe issues when it comes to their sexuality. For what it's worth, I think we're slowly improving, which is of course the point of this thread in the first place, but we're a long way from perfect.

 

There are people clustered around your area of that continuum to be sure, but there are also people at the diametrical opposite. Who may well have not ever had any sex dream of any sort whatsoever. Believe it or not! We're not all you in different disguises!!

 

We all dream. They're not always about sex, of course, but sometimes they are. We've all had the dream of being naked only nobody seems to notice. Or dreams where we come to a sudden, violent end. We dream about work, about our friends and families, and about people we don't know. We have dreams that are so close to reality that we don't even realize it's a dream, and ones that are so fantastical that it's obvious. And yes, we dream about sex. Sometimes it's our SO, sometimes it's real people we know, others it's faceless, nameless people who don't even exist. For anyone to claim otherwise is simply a lie, pure and simple.

 

We all have the power and the right to define our own boundaries. Blaming other people for not having the same ones as us or for not being willing to redefine theirs for our sake is just wrong, unless they have misrepresented themselves as having the same. Otherwise, if we allow our boundaries to be violated, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

You are right, and I'm not suggesting otherwise. But a boundary that includes no porn use by the SO is unrealistic. Based purely on statistics, the chances of finding a mate that does not use porn are remote. You can have a boundary that I don't want my husband to drink milk. That doesn't make it reasonable.

 

If you really love someone who finds some of your behavior objectionable, you don't tell them they are WRONG to feel that way.

 

It depends on the behavior they're objecting to.

 

You either give up the behavior because you love the person more or you give up the person because you love the behavior more.

 

Or you say that you don't have the authority, as my spouse and my equal, to demand that I change that. That's not just limited, btw, to porn. As I've said, I do not view porn very often, it's simply not a priority to me. Indeed, I could go the rest of my life and never see it again and would likely feel no loss. However, I would never grant anyone the authority to demand that of me, and it has nothing to do with a love of porn.

[EnigmasMuse]

"The arguements that come from the anti-porn crowd are the same everytime."

 

So are the ones from the ones in favor.

 

 

"As I said,I could have that arguement with myself and it would accomplish about as much as having it with someone else."

 

Yes, which is why I don't understand the fact that people will continue on and on about it after pages and pages.

 

JMO, but I think you're putting way to much effort in this thread on the Why's, how's, when's and where's of it all. You've heard from the ones who don't mind porn, who don't mind being in a monogamous relationship, and you've heard from the ones who don't care for porn or don't care for swinging or open relationships etc, I'm not sure what else is left to talk about.

[Jersey Shortie]

Good post luvstarved.

 

Could you be a little more condescending?

 

Yes...yes I could.

[rainfall]

For you to tell the rest of us you've never had a sex dream that included people other that your SO is disingenuous.

 

There isn't a single person on the planet, except those who didn't live long enough to start having sex dreams at all, who can say that. That your are claiming it is true is merely evidence that you are so completely devoted to your ridiculous position on human sexuality that you'd say anything, including that which is blatantly untrue, to support that position.

 

 

When I was single I had sex dreams about people I had crushes on. However when I have been in a relationship I have not desired anyone else. I have not seen some guy on the street and thought , "Hey he is hot I wanna rip his clothes off and have sex with him all night long."

 

Just because you aren't satisfied in a relationship unless you are sleeping with others and thinking about sleeping with others doesn't mean everyone has some deep secret desire to be just like you.

[luvstarved]

Good post luvstarved.

 

 

 

Yes...yes I could.

 

LOL So could I JS...TBH I usually do not like the protracted discussions about porn and still feel that its value in a relationship is determined by the two (or more!!!) parties involved and nobody else...

 

but he is as knee jerk and self-righteous as anyone I have ever seen on LS and just can't allow for any other point of view, so I will leave him to his overworked BS in Sociology or whatever it is he feels he gleans his immense wisdom from and just hope that his sexcapades do not include much procreation...

 

No point in further commenting anyway...he knows what we are all thinking and what we all "really" believe and we are all wrong, just purely and simply...WRONG.

[luvstarved]

LOL So could I JS...TBH I usually do not like the protracted discussions about porn and still feel that its value in a relationship is determined by the two (or more!!!) parties involved and nobody else...

 

but he is as knee jerk and self-righteous as anyone I have ever seen on LS and just can't allow for any other point of view, so I will leave him to his overworked BS in Sociology or whatever it is he feels he gleans his immense wisdom from and just hope that his sexcapades do not include much procreation...

 

No point in further commenting anyway...he knows what we are all thinking and what we all "really" believe and we are all wrong, just purely and simply...WRONG.

 

Oh, and anyway, we're lying...:lmao:

[sxyNYCcpl]

I have not seen some guy on the street and thought , "Hey he is hot I wanna rip his clothes off and have sex with him all night long."

 

Which is not the same thing as having a dream. Whether you are willing to admit it or not, we have all of us had dreams that included sex and people that are not our primary partner. We don't control our dreams.

 

Just because you aren't satisfied in a relationship unless you are sleeping with others and thinking about sleeping with others doesn't mean everyone has some deep secret desire to be just like you.

 

I have never even suggested such a thing, much less said it outright. The point of this thread is not "I'm right, you're wrong, and you should be like me." The point is, as a group more and more of us are getting more and more adventurous. Whether or not you are doing so is irrelevant.

[The Collector]

Whether you are willing to admit it or not, we have all of us had dreams that included sex and people that are not our primary partner. We don't control our dreams.

 

Tell me about it. The other night I had a dream where me and John McCain got along really well. What's that all about?

 

I also had a slightly sexual dream about Russell Brand, but I know he's sexy so that's ok.

[rainfall]

Which is not the same thing as having a dream. Whether you are willing to admit it or not, we have all of us had dreams that included sex and people that are not our primary partner. We don't control our dreams.

 

I have never even suggested such a thing, much less said it outright. The point of this thread is not "I'm right, you're wrong, and you should be like me." The point is, as a group more and more of us are getting more and more adventurous. Whether or not you are doing so is irrelevant.

 

 

Just because you have a sex dream about someone I really doubt it means you want to sleep with them. I am more concerened with what someone can control then what happens while they sleep.

[soserious1]

You are right, and I'm not suggesting otherwise. But a boundary that includes no porn use by the SO is unrealistic. Based purely on statistics, the chances of finding a mate that does not use porn are remote. You can have a boundary that I don't want my husband to drink milk. That doesn't make it reasonable.

 

It depends on the behavior they're objecting to.

 

 

Or you say that you don't have the authority, as my spouse and my equal, to demand that I change that. That's not just limited, btw, to porn. As I've said, I do not view porn very often, it's simply not a priority to me. Indeed, I could go the rest of my life and never see it again and would likely feel no loss. However, I would never grant anyone the authority to demand that of me, and it has nothing to do with a love of porn.

 

 

I totally agree that nobody has the right to tell another person what they can read,look at or think about, you are 100% correct on that score.

 

However, I do have the right to authority and setting boundaries on the use of my body, my time, energy and my money.

 

You've been watching porn and now you've got a big fat woodie? great, you know where the lube and kleenex are kept.

 

You've stared at every remotely attractive woman in the restaurant, stopping conversation dead mid-sentence at least twice but when we get home you remind me that you need a dress shirt pressed for the morning? sorry but you can figure that out for yourself.

 

You're worried about your elderly parents, fearful they'll need skilled nursing home care, you want me to commit to physical care taking after I've put in a full day at my job ? Sorry but I'm not up to it, why don't you contact the girls from bangbus and ask them to help out?

 

I'm totally down with protecting the rights of personal freedom but that also includes my rights as well. Men, at least the ones I've met aren't okay with that. They want all the goodies, a woman who works and fully pulls her weight fiscally but doesn't miss a beat with cooking,cleaning and making a home cozy and warm, they expect women to maintain their extended family relationships, providing support and lending a hand, most importantly they expect women to smile indulgently and chuckle while saying "boys will be boys" over porn and openly drooling over other women. We're expected to be like a combo wife/mommie.

 

I say you have every right to indulge in porn and anything else that floats your boat but your rights stop where my body,time,energy and checkbook begin.

[soserious1]

 

Or you say that you don't have the authority, as my spouse and my equal, to demand that I change that. That's not just limited, btw, to porn. As I've said, I do not view porn very often, it's simply not a priority to me. Indeed, I could go the rest of my life and never see it again and would likely feel no loss. However, I would never grant anyone the authority to demand that of me, and it has nothing to do with a love of porn.

 

 

I totally agree that nobody has the right to tell another person what they can read,look at or think about, you are 100% correct on that score.

 

However, I do have the right to authority and setting boundaries on the use of my body, my time, energy and my money.

 

You've been watching porn and now you've got a big fat woodie? great, you know where the lube and kleenex are kept.

 

You've stared at every remotely attractive woman in the restaurant, stopping conversation dead mid-sentence at least twice but when we get home you remind me that you need a dress shirt pressed for the morning? sorry but you can figure that out for yourself.

 

You're worried about your elderly parents, fearful they'll need skilled nursing home care, you want me to commit to physical care taking after I've put in a full day at my job ? Sorry but I'm not up to it, why don't you contact the girls from bangbus and ask them to help out?

 

I'm totally down with protecting the rights of personal freedom but that also includes my rights as well. Men, at least the ones I've met aren't okay with that. They want all the goodies, a woman who works and fully pulls her weight fiscally but doesn't miss a beat with cooking,cleaning and making a home cozy and warm, they expect women to maintain their extended family relationships, providing support and lending a hand, most importantly they expect women to smile indulgently and chuckle while saying "boys will be boys" over porn and openly drooling over other women. We're expected to be like a combo wife/mommie.

 

I say you have every right to indulge in porn and anything else that floats your boat but your rights stop where my body,time,energy and checkbook begin.