The new sexual revolution: Porn, Swingers, and shifting moralities

[Moose]

That is because, for you, sex=love. That's fine, I just happen to disagree. For me, love (of the romantic, SO/Spouse kind) is not likely to exist with out sex, but sex can easily exist without love.

 

I hold no objects as sacred, only those I love. Objects can be replaced. People can't.

sex=love? For me? Nah, I don't think so....

 

If that were the case, I would've divorced a long time ago, believe me....

 

Love to me is being held in the highest regard exclusively and in all areas. It's not a, "secureness issue" either....rather a respect issue.

 

I'm accepted fully by my spouse no matter what down falls I may have had or will have in the future, and this is for life...

 

I would literally lay down my life for Mrs. Moose and she would do the same for me....

 

I agree objects can be replaced, and believe me, as someone who can have whatever he wants I know first hand that having objects, (no matter how desirable they are) does not make one happy.....

 

I've noticed that you're a little too quick in making general assumptions.....

[sxyNYCcpl]

What I want in the bedroom is a man who only needs me to be turned on. If he is spanking it to porn then I am not getting what I want or deserve.

 

Well, it may be what you want, but I suspect you're going to have a very hard time actually finding it. It's not good enough that he treats you good, showers you with love, and that you have a sexual relationship like bunnies. You need a pointless sacrifice. Good luck!

 

It is not unrealistic to want to be with someone who doesn't need to think about screwing randomn people.

 

Assuming you are a member of the human species it most certainly is unrealistic. We all have such thoughts on a daily basis, whether we watch porn or not, and it's not something we could stop even if we tried. Hint... That includes you!

[Jersey Shortie]

Everyone has the right to swing....on a swing set.... that is safey regulated of course. Here, here!

[blair08]

Are you thinking of leaving the swinging lifestyle by chance?

 

 

Anyway, is all this analyzing and discussing for a paper for college? A book? Something to discuss over dinner?

 

It's great you and your wife are on the same page about the swingng thing. Whose idea was it orginally? In other words who brought the idea up and what was the reason behind it?

[PandorasBox]

"Wrong. Because sex is not sacred. It's just sex."

 

*NO, I'm not wrong in MY way of thinking. Are you wrong in YOUR way of thinking? Of course not, so its settled then.

 

You do, think, and feel what you wish, and I will too, yay!

[sxyNYCcpl]

Are you thinking of leaving the swinging lifestyle by chance?

 

Anyway, is all this analyzing and discussing for a paper for college? A book? Something to discuss over dinner?

 

I have considered writing a book, but if I do, I'd like the subject to be sexuality in general, not just swinging. Of course, I hoped this thread to be like that too, but the topic of swinging garners so much interest, even from those who have no desire to participate that it tends to dominate the discussion.

 

I'll probably be leaving the lifestyle at some point, but I'm hoping not for another 40 years or so. By then I'll be so old that subjecting people to watching me have sex will be cruel and unusual punishment. Of course, one never knows what medical gains might forestall that between now and then.

 

It's great you and your wife are on the same page about the swingng thing. Whose idea was it orginally? In other words who brought the idea up and what was the reason behind it?

 

I'd have to say it was more or less mutual. When we first started dating, I made clear to her that I did not care for a lifetime of sexual monogamy (emotional is a different subject), and she was of the same mentality. I initiated the conversation, but there was no convincing required. The reason I did so that early in the relationship was me saying "Here's the real me, if that's not for you let's not waste each others time."

 

On a completely unrelated note, I find it interesting that participation on this board plummets after working hours. Are we all shacking from work? Tsk Tsk lol

[Melisande]

Just finished reading this all thread (took a bit of time!)

 

I have to say that I entirely agree with the OP, and was very impressed by how articulate and calm he remained throughout.

 

To give a bit of background, I'm a 27 year old woman, with a live-in partner. We are not swingers, but from the very start we agreed on a non monogamous relationship (we haven't yet actually acted on that, and are focusing on our relationship first, as you need a strong and secure basis, but we discuss it regularly). We are on the BDSM scene (we met at a fetish club), I'm bisexual, we both watch porn (though not that much because it tends to be a bit lame and boring) etc.

 

So yes, I do see the change that was mentioned in the OP. Some of you might think of me as a slut, but I would completely disagree, and actually, I haven't had many sexual partners at all, I tend to go into LTR. But there is much more acceptance of deviant sexual practices and people are certainly more free to follow their sexual urges instead of hide or be in denial, be it homosexuality, fetishes, swinging etc.

 

And I would also agree that be open and honest about your sexual needs and preferences, and accepting your partner's, make a relationship go much more smoothly than constantly worrying about whether they're thinking about someone else, watching porn, being "mentally unfaithful" and whatnot.

 

Mmm, sorry if that was disjoined and pointless, I'm being very scatterbrained today

[rainfall]

Well, it may be what you want, but I suspect you're going to have a very hard time actually finding it. It's not good enough that he treats you good, showers you with love, and that you have a sexual relationship like bunnies. You need a pointless sacrifice. Good luck!

 

Assuming you are a member of the human species it most certainly is unrealistic. We all have such thoughts on a daily basis, whether we watch porn or not, and it's not something we could stop even if we tried. Hint... That includes you!

 

 

Please don't tell me what I think. I don't want to sleep with anyone besides my SO. I don't fantasize about strange random men. It really doesn't turn me on at all to think of other people. It kinda turns me off.

 

If he is wanting to screw other women then he isn't treating me good. He is really only settling for me since he can't be with the women in porn.

[Sks]

Assuming you are a member of the human species it most certainly is unrealistic. We all have such thoughts on a daily basis, whether we watch porn or not, and it's not something we could stop even if we tried. Hint... That includes you!

 

Incorrect, it depends on what you enjoy from sex. The act of physical intercourse alone does not pleasure me that much, it feels good but is not the driving force in why I preform the act.

[sxyNYCcpl]

I don't fantasize about strange random men.

 

Are you seriously going to tell me that you have never had a sex dream that included anyone other than your SO? Don't bother, I won't believe you even if you do.

 

He is really only settling for me since he can't be with the women in porn.

 

If that's truly what he wanted, rest assured he would have gone out and gotten it. Maybe not any specific actress, but if his desire to have someone who acted in that way was stronger than his desire to be with you, he would.

[mrsT]

Let me guess, sxyNY, you are quite young, aren't you? As you get older, what you think is right changes. So does what you believe in and what you want. You learn by discovering through experience what is and is not possible, beneficial, true, beautiful, loving.

[Jersey Shortie]

Seems to me the porn option is the best, as nobody has to sacrifice that way.

 

Seems to me that she is the one sacfricing and he will be the one that can both indulge in porn and have sex with her. He isn't the one loosing out.

 

And what is so bad about sacrificing anyway? Are you less of a man for it? I deny myself the pleasure of ice cream every night. I expect a man to deny himself for the better long term goals at hand.

 

 

Simply because it is stimulating does not imply the viewer is attempting to replace his primary partner, just as watching professional sports does not make most people want to quit their job and sign up for the NFL.

 

That's because most men can't. Doesn't mean they don't want what the NFL has to offer. Women are not so ignorant that they think their men are asexual to the women in the movies and are only turned on by the physical act.

 

 

That is only true if his spanking to other women is directly responsible for you NOT getting what you deserve and want in the bedroom. If it has a neutral effect on your sexuality, the only way you can be suffering is because of your own (unrealistic) expectations. In other words, the problem is not the problem, the problem is your attitude about the problem.

 

We could equally say that his attitude about porn and his attitude toward her feelings, wanting to disregard them and blow them off and only deeming his feelings important, are also the problem. You want the paint the female as the bad guy because it disagrees with your agenda.

 

You yourself seem to think that the emotional aspect of a relationship is more important. Going on that thought process, it's clear that a man spanking it to other women, even if he is fullfilling his SOs sexual needs,is not fulfilling her emotional ones. That is, if she is a woman that is toubled by his use of it. If the emotional aspect is so much more important to a man in a relationship, wouldn't he want to do what he could to fullfill her emotionally? Just like he would wish and hope that she would want to fulfill him physically? It's interesting but yoru theory is contradictory. You place the importance on the emotional side of the relationship, and when a woman feels that a man is not meeting the emotional aspects of the relationship (in this case it is with porn) she is told she is unrealistic and shouldn't expect more out of her man then what he is willing to give in his base instincts.

 

 

On a completely unrelated note, I find it interesting that participation on this board plummets after working hours. Are we all shacking from work? Tsk Tsk lol

 

Oy Look at the ego trip on this guy. First he wants to tell us all we should be swingers and now he wants to dictate internet conduct.

[Kasan]

I have a question for you............

 

How did you come to pick LS to have this discussion?

 

What did you think could be accomplished given the conservative nature of this board?

 

Are you disappointed with the responses?

[sxyNYCcpl]

Let me guess, sxyNY, you are quite young, aren't you?

 

Late 30s. My wife is 2 years my junior.

 

As you get older, what you think is right changes. So does what you believe in and what you want. You learn by discovering through experience what is and is not possible, beneficial, true, beautiful, loving.

 

I completely agree with that!

[sxyNYCcpl]

Oy Look at the ego trip on this guy. First he wants to tell us all we should be swingers and now he wants to dictate internet conduct.

 

Lighten up, it was suppose to be humor as I am guilty of the same. Lame humor, perhaps, but humor nonetheless.

 

I'll respond to the bulk of your post in a few...

[sxyNYCcpl]

How did you come to pick LS to have this discussion?

 

Random internet quirk. I was reading something, clicked on a link, then another, then another, then I was here. No idea what I was originally reading that led me here. I ended up reading one of the circular "porn sucks", "no it doesn't", "yes it does" threads and from that was inspired to make my original post. Why it inspired me I honestly don't remember.

 

What did you think could be accomplished given the conservative nature of this board?

 

I'm not trying to accomplish anything, except perhaps gain a better understanding of how people think and why people do what they do. Is LS conservative natured? Your opinion or commonly held?

 

Are you disappointed with the responses?

 

No, on the contrary, I've found it quite fascinating. The anti-porn crusaders are somewhat annoying, if for no other reason than they're completely predictable and closed minded. I could have that argument with myself as I know what they're going to say, and it would be just as productive.

 

At first, I thought the religious guy who won't ride on elevators with women might end up being a whack job, but he actually seems like an intelligent and likable fellow, even if he and I do disagree.

 

Many of the other participants have been quite thought provoking.

 

I'm a tad bit disappointed that swinging and porn have so completely dominated the conversation when my original post had 8 or 10 items, but not completely surprised. Other than that I've found it, as I said, fascinating.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Seems to me that she is the one sacfricing and he will be the one that can both indulge in porn and have sex with her. He isn't the one loosing out.

 

How does that amount to a sacrifice?

 

And what is so bad about sacrificing anyway?

 

Nothing at all, if it's necessary. Asking for sacrifice just for the sake of sacrifice is pointless. Sacrifice to achieve a greater good is an honorable thing.

 

I deny myself the pleasure of ice cream every night. I expect a man to deny himself for the better long term goals at hand.

 

If you were to eat ice cream every night you'd eventually be 300 lbs, with the negative social and health issues baggage that came with that. Watching porn has no such baggage.

 

That's because most men can't. Doesn't mean they don't want what the NFL has to offer.

 

So what? The point is that merely enjoying watching someone else participate in something, be it sex or football, implies nothing about someone's inner desires.

 

We could equally say that his attitude about porn and his attitude toward her feelings, wanting to disregard them and blow them off and only deeming his feelings important, are also the problem. You want the paint the female as the bad guy because it disagrees with your agenda.

 

No, not females, I worship females, one in particular. I do, however, consider anti-porn crusaders to be bad guys. Fortunately, the reality is that you guys are losing the culture war and nothing is going to change that. Yesterday (the metaphorical yesterday) porn was bad, and hidden away, and only used by pervy old men. Today, it's fairly mainstream. Tomorrow, it'll be considered by a vast majority to be completely normal. That horse has left the barn.

 

You yourself seem to think that the emotional aspect of a relationship is more important. Going on that thought process, it's clear that a man spanking it to other women, even if he is fullfilling his SOs sexual needs,is not fulfilling her emotional ones.

 

That's not clear at all, which is of course the root of this debate and why it will likely never go anywhere but around in circles. To have an emotional need that your SO not watch porn is, IMO, ridiculous, and indicative of overly controlling expectations. You disagree, I get that. Good thing we're not married to each other.

 

What I do when I'm by myself has no impact whatsoever on the emotions of my partner.

[rainfall]

Are you seriously going to tell me that you have never had a sex dream that included anyone other than your SO? Don't bother, I won't believe you even if you do.

.

 

 

I really don't care what you believe. I know how I feel and what I think about so that is all that really matters. I don't fantasize about other people. I have no desire for other people. I actually love my SO enough so I don't really need or want to think of anyone else.

[JackJack]

"which is of course the root of this debate and why it will likely never go anywhere but around in circles".

 

Yep! These kinds of threads will always go around and around in circles, that's just the way it is I suppose. There will always be people who love certain things that others don't.

 

I think that is what gets so frustrating at times, is, it is the same old thing. Why don't you like porn? Why do you like porn? Why do you practice monogamay? Why do you not? Kind of thing. Everybody will always have an answer/justification for why they do what they do.

 

I completely understand coming here and having a discussion on certain topics, to get other people's views/opinons, but the thing is if people truly got what it is the other one was saying, it would not continue in this circle. After awhile it does become pointless.

[Kasan]

I completely understand coming here and having a discussion on certain topics, to get other people's views/opinons, but the thing is if people truly got what it is the other one was saying, it would not continue in this circle. After awhile it does become pointless.

 

Well said..........and I would like to add that what frustrates me is people's inability to even consider that their are other views and different lifestyles in this huge world, other than their own.

 

You don't always have to like it, but you can be aware, and respect that there are differences, and that doesn't always make someone bad...........just different.

[soserious1]

I've got no problem with porn, I don't even have an issue with a man openly lusting for and bedding other women when he's in a relationship with me. Guys talk about the "ëmotional bond" being the most important, they swear the sex isn't important, that you're the "special one" that they share this oh so important emotional connection with.

 

Problem is, what men mean by "emotional connection" is that he gets to exercise the full range of his sexuality

but then can turn to his partner and expect her to lovingly and eagerly tend to all those pesky daily needs, you know his needs for things like clean laundry, a kitchen sink that's not full of dirty dishes, his need for $$$$ from

her paycheck.

 

If other women are so vital to his basic needs, why can't he turn to them for help when his elderly mother needs home nursing care or when he can't pay his share of our rent? Why do I get to be the one picked to take care of the crap while the other women get all the passion,fun and excitement?

 

You want to sit around and jerk off to porn, to openly ogle and go after other women? terrific, make sure you bring her a load of your dirty clothing to wash and a few of your bills to pay.

[Jersey Shortie]

Sacrifice to achieve a greater good is an honorable thing.

 

Exactly.

 

If you were to eat ice cream every night you'd eventually be 300 lbs, with the negative social and health issues baggage that came with that. Watching porn has no such baggage.

 

The desire for ice cream and the impluse to not be able to control the desire for it come from the same place in the head as the desire for sex or porn and the impluse used to control it or not. Also, to think that porn has no such baggage is incorrect.

 

 

No, not females, I worship females, one in particular. I do, however, consider anti-porn crusaders to be bad guys. Fortunately, the reality is that you guys are losing the culture war and nothing is going to change that. Yesterday (the metaphorical yesterday) porn was bad, and hidden away, and only used by pervy old men. Today, it's fairly mainstream. Tomorrow, it'll be considered by a vast majority to be completely normal. That horse has left the barn.

 

Porn is less hidden away. But I don't know one man that goes around proud of his porn use or proud of the fact that porn is more mainstream...only you. Maybe the day will come with a man's daughter can get a role in a porn film and him and all his friends can ahve a movie night watching the good times and the "normalcy" of porn. I also must ad that if you think porn is normal or should become normal, I would question your ablility to seperate fantasy.

 

 

To have an emotional need that your SO not watch porn is, IMO, ridiculous, and indicative of overly controlling expectations.

 

To think that the emotional needs of a partner equals controlling and over the top expectations is to insinuate that the nature of the relationship is all about you.

 

 

What I do when I'm by myself has no impact whatsoever on the emotions of my partner.

 

You have so much to learn.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Also, to think that porn has no such baggage is incorrect.

 

Assumes facts not in evidence. Eat too much, get fat, get diabetes, get heart disease, have people think you're disgusting to look at. Watch porn and... what? Learn how to have better sex?

 

But I don't know one man that goes around proud of his porn use or proud of the fact that porn is more mainstream...only you.

 

Then you haven't been paying attention.

 

I also must ad that if you think porn is normal or should become normal, I would question your ablility to seperate fantasy.

 

From what? From reality? For me, there is no distinction.

 

To think that the emotional needs of a partner equals controlling and over the top expectations is to insinuate that the nature of the relationship is all about you.

 

If you need a partner that doesn't watch porn, well that's just a little too needy. And evidence of very low self esteem.

 

You have so much to learn.

 

Could you be a little more condescending?

[angie2443]

Problem is, what men mean by "emotional connection" is that he gets to exercise the full range of his sexuality

but then can turn to his partner and expect her to lovingly and eagerly tend to all those pesky daily needs, you know his needs for things like clean laundry, a kitchen sink that's not full of dirty dishes, his need for $$$$ from

her paycheck.

 

If other women are so vital to his basic needs, why can't he turn to them for help when his elderly mother needs home nursing care or when he can't pay his share of our rent? Why do I get to be the one picked to take care of the crap while the other women get all the passion,fun and excitement?

 

You want to sit around and jerk off to porn, to openly ogle and go after other women? terrific, make sure you bring her a load of your dirty clothing to wash and a few of your bills to pay.

 

I couldn't have said it better!

[sxyNYCcpl]

I have no desire for other people.

 

For you to tell the rest of us you've never had a sex dream that included people other that your SO is disingenuous.

 

There isn't a single person on the planet, except those who didn't live long enough to start having sex dreams at all, who can say that. That your are claiming it is true is merely evidence that you are so completely devoted to your ridiculous position on human sexuality that you'd say anything, including that which is blatantly untrue, to support that position.