The new sexual revolution: Porn, Swingers, and shifting moralities

[sxyNYCcpl]

And why should you save your body for a soul mate? That I don't know, you just should!.

 

At the risk of sounding like a petulant four year old (why? why? why?) that's not an answer.

[quankanne]

Why? Because the sex with the person you're meant to be with becomes transcendent. It goes beyond a physical thing and enters into a stellar realm. Because even the best bang of your life doesn't compare with what happens with the person you're meant to be with ... it's a mind blowing thing.

 

that's not to say practice with other mere mortals is not acceptable :LOL:

[sxyNYCcpl]

It serves no purpose to comtinue to WONDER why some do not like the things you like or vice versa.

 

If nothing else, it's intellectually stimulating conversation. I think it's also healthy to challenge ones own beliefs from time to time, to see if they need adjusting. That certainly applies to a much broader spectrum than just sex.

[manugeorge]

Why? Because the sex with the person you're meant to be with becomes transcendent. It goes beyond a physical thing and enters into a stellar realm. Because even the best bang of your life doesn't compare with what happens with the person you're meant to be with ... it's a mind blowing thing.

 

that's not to say practice with other mere mortals is not acceptable :LOL:

 

 

Right right, what she..he? said:D That whole spiritual connection thing.

 

But Quankanne, what about those of us who have found several "ones that we're meant to be with"? You know, at 16, you just swore he was the one, but then that fizzled out, at 20, another "love of my life" walked in and 5 years later waltzed right out. And then came the one that ended up at the altar, till death do you part, only to morph into a jackass 10 years later, hello..divorce court.

 

At the rate which relationships begin and end these days, we tend to rack up quite a few sex partners in our lifetime. Granted, it's a far cry from participating in orgies, but still though, we still end up inviting several people into that personal space we are *suppose* to save for the one we're meant to be with.

[JackJack]

If nothing else, it's intellectually stimulating conversation. I think it's also healthy to challenge ones own beliefs from time to time, to see if they need adjusting. That certainly applies to a much broader spectrum than just sex.

 

I understand. And after pages upon pages of pretty much the same kinds of things, and that's on any topic, not just porn or sex, but its time to take a step back and see that points have been made, opinons given, etc. Things will eventually run its course, even "intellectual" conversations on any subject.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Women are supposed to save themselves for marriage, and even then not act like a "slut" with their husband. Are you sensing a theme here?

 

but isn't this thing about women mandated by MEN,

 

Yes!! Well, in days gone by it was. That is why I say these changes are positive, because it's no longer men dictating women's sexuality to them, it's the women themselves standing up and saying "I'll take charge of that, thank you very much!"

 

However, I sort of intended those as rhetorical questions lol.

[sxyNYCcpl]

we still end up inviting several people into that personal space we are *suppose* to save for the one we're meant to be with.

 

[petulant child mode]

 

Ahem. Why exactly is that?

 

[/petulant child mode]

[EnigmasMuse]

Speaking of intellectual conversations, I sometimes think it takes an intellectual person to be the one who who doesn't continue to reply the the threads that do go on like a broke record.

[Jersey Shortie]

Maugeorge-

 

See, there is that inconsistency again. You admitted above that you fully accept people's free will to be pornstars. But by the same token, don't people, i.e, porn watchers have the same free will to view porn?

 

There is no inconsistency because I never said that people who watch porn don't have, or shouldn't have, their free will to do so, be taken away. What you are failing to understand is that I stand by a person's right to choose what they want in their life (free will), at the same time disagreeing with what they choose (standards/personal life concepts). I don't have to respect the choice of a person who looks at porn. I don't have to respect the choice of a person who doesn't choose to go the extra step to recycle. I don't have to respect the parent's choice to smack their child on the butt when they have misbehaved. I can perfectly, without inconsistency, respect a person's right to have free will, without respecting the choice they make. That has nothing to do with inconsistency. If we went by your thought process we could also call you inconsistent. You obviously believe in free will. Yet you have issues with me expressing my ideas the way I do in my free will.

 

 

I don't know how many people respect or disrespect Anthony Hopkins because he played Hannibal Lecter. Which is why I don't really get the reasoning that men don't respect pornstars, therefore, shouldn't watch porn. What has the character somebody plays on screen has to do with whether or not they are respected or whether or not we should watch the movie and enjoy what they represent onscreen?.

 

I think if you asked *most* men, you would find very few of them hold much true respect for a woman that is in porn. Comparing what Anthony Hopkins does in a movie, to what a pornstar does in a movie are not equal comparisons from the start. The only thing comparable is that they are in a movie. Beyond that, it stops.

 

 

Pornstars are actors, not prostitutes or sluts, they are playing a part of sex craved maniacs, moaning, groaning, changing poses, surgically enhancing their bodies to portray an image they have been paid to portray. How is that different from what Tom Hanks in Castaway or Christian Bale in America Pyscho?

 

I never refered to a pornstar in a negative name. However, it is interesting that you want to clairfy that pornstars are infact not sluts, when that is exactly how most men see them and when that is infact how they can often be refered to by men and by the industry itself. So the inconsistency in your argument beams through. It's not okay for me to think of them as sluts, as you illustrated in wanting to clairfy that they are not sluts, but it's okay to call them sluts in a movie. And I am sorry, but I think most people would agree what Tom Hanks does and what a pornstar does is not the same thing.

 

 

And JS, when you type words, I am going to interpret them based on what you typed, based on what I read on screen and the way it comes across not what you meant to say, I'm not in your mind thus I don't know what you really meant to say, I have nothing else to go on but what you typed. The burden is on you to make sure your words accurately convey what you mean to say that way people don't misinterpret you.

 

I have been very clear in what I mean. It's your own mindframe that you chooose to believe over what is being said. I however don't understand why you are trying to hard to make me the one on trial here. But whatever floats your boat.

[manugeorge]

Hey JS, no fair, you skipped over the questions below....

 

 

And you say you've brought up a lot of issues that people have ignored, what about issues people have brought up that you have ignored?

 

Are women with husbands and daughters who watch porn also disrespectful to women? or are they disrespectful to the men in their lives?

 

Do amature porn, housewives porn, pregnant porn, granny porn, fatty porn and all other kinds of porn that don't depict 25 year old big boobed, perfect body women objectify women? Do these other kinds of porn tell women they have to be "perfect" to be attractive? If your answer to these questions is Yes, please explain why/how. And if your answer is No, then is it ok to watch these kinds of porn?

 

All men who watch porn don't respect women in their lives right? I mean it's impossible to respect your woman when you watch porn, right? That whole mutual exclusivity thing.

How about women like me, who feel respected, loved and cared for, yet my boyfriend still watches porn?. What do you make of that? Are these women just delusional? or is it possible afterall for a man-some men to watch porn and still respect women?

 

How about those of us, women, who actually see some sexual activity in porn and want our boyfriend to perform it on us? I mean is it always the other way around? I asked my BF for anal sex because I noticed in porn that it doesn't look like it hurt as much as I think it does. And he kept hesitating asking me if I'm sure I want to go through with it. Please humor me and tell me what you make of that?

[Jersey Shortie]

When you catch up to the many questions I have posted, I will follow suit. I have already expressed my numerous opinions to most of your questions thoughout my previous postings and I have no need to *answer to you* about it. But I am more then willing to play your game when you ar emore then willing to answer as well. So far you haven't shown that that is the way you want to play.

[quankanne]

only to morph into a jackass :lmao:

 

we still end up inviting several people into that personal space we are *suppose* to save for the one we're meant to be with

 

i will go to hell for saying this, but experience is not necessarily a bad thing *guilty catholic conscience kicks in* ... ultimately, it gets us to our destination, so look at it as an excercise in loving and growing your heart. While you get your rocks off :laugh: *bad girl*

 

That is why I say these changes are positive, because it's no longer men dictating women's sexuality to them, it's the women themselves standing up and saying "I'll take charge of that, thank you very much!"

 

but are they REALLY all that positive when men still are setting standards for our sexuality? There's a huge difference between someone who is in touch with her sexuality and revels in it (Lizzie comes to mind, she's VERY comfortable in her skin, and while I don't agree with some of what she says, it's kind of neat seeing an older woman set her own standards when it comes to sexuality) ... and these girls who are experimenting with off the wall sexcapades because they're lead to believe that it makes the more "attractive." Sorry, but the gals who fall into the latter category are still victims of the bonds imposed by men, who are dictating what a "real" woman shoudl be!

[manugeorge]

When you catch up to the many questions I have posted, I will follow suit. I have already expressed my numerous opinions to most of your questions thoughout my previous postings and I have no need to *answer to you* about it. But I am more then willing to play your game when you ar emore then willing to answer as well. So far you haven't shown that that is the way you want to play.

 

Dang!, how you gonna cop out like that? where is JS fire and brimstone? You didn't ask me direct questions though, if you did, I really would answer them, it is kind of hard to read through 21+ pages of threads trying to extract your questions.

 

But fine, be like that then. What a jip!

[rainfall]

 

Pornstars are actors, not prostitutes or sluts, they are playing a part of sex craved maniacs, moaning, groaning, changing poses, surgically enhancing their bodies to portray an image they have been paid to portray. How is that different from what Tom Hanks in Castaway or Christian Bale in America Pyscho? Sure pornstars are actually having sex for all to see (a route I may not take personally) but is it any different for movies we watch everyday? Especially movies these days where "legitimate" actors strip down to their bare ass and grind on other legitimate actors to simulate a sex scene. The way this is done sometimes makes me blush because you see everything BUT the money shots.

 

All men who watch porn don't respect women in their lives right? I mean it's impossible to respect your woman when you watch porn, right? That whole mutual exclusivity thing.

How about women like me, who feel respected, loved and cared for, yet my boyfriend still watches porn?. What do you make of that? Are these women just delusional? or is it possible afterall for a man-some men to watch porn and still respect women?

 

 

People who star in porn are sluts and prostitues. They are having sex for money with many different people. They have no respect for themselves. That makes them slutty and a prostitute.

 

I for one think men who watch porn don't respect the women in their lives. How can you say you respect someone when you are thinking less of them because their boobs aren't as big as the porn slut? How can you say you respect them when you think about sleeping with other people?

[tanbark813]

How can you say you respect someone when you are thinking less of them because their boobs aren't as big as the porn slut?

 

What if you're dating someone whose boobs are bigger than the porn slut?

[Mr. Lucky]

People who star in porn are sluts and prostitues. They are having sex for money with many different people.

Actually, much of the porn online is amatuer couples who are unpaid. Does that still make them slutty prostitutes?

 

Mr. Lucky

[rainfall]

Actually, much of the porn online is amatuer couples who are unpaid. Does that still make them slutty prostitutes?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I guess then it just makes them slutty.

[rainfall]

What if you're dating someone whose boobs are bigger than the porn slut?

 

I guess then the guy will find something else that is wrong with his SO to compare to the porn slut.

[manugeorge]

I guess then it just makes them slutty.

 

Good one!

 

How about porn with actual couples in it? you know cheap camera in their bedroom broadcasting it for the world to see? What category do they fall into?

[rainfall]

Good one!

 

How about porn with actual couples in it? you know cheap camera in their bedroom broadcasting it for the world to see? What category do they fall into?

 

 

I would still stick with slutty on that one.

[luvstarved]

 

It's fine that you disagree, but what observations or evidence leads you to that conclusion? I pointed out a number of items in my original post that would tend to indicate that we are in fact changing our practices. That you are not is not a contraindicator, as individuals will always vary..

 

Most of your original post was about attitudes, not actions, changing, and I agree with you that as a whole, people are more tolerant about race, creed, sexual orientation and everything else. And hooray for that.

 

But, as to evidence that human sexuality in and of itself has not qualitatively changed much over the years, google "history of sex" and have a field day. That you ARE in a sexual minority does not mean it is migrating toward a majority, so is also not an indicator...as individuals will vary.

 

BTW, as I said earlier, I do believe ultimately in monogamous relationships, but I believe in free experimentation up to the point that an individual is ready for it, if ever.

 

I just honestly do not believe that monogamy is "unnatural"...I think it is rather a sign of maturity, to which people come sooner or later, and some, alas, not at all.

 

I admit it took me a long time and I did sow a LOT of wild oats, and don't regret a single grain

 

But, when I started thinking about kids, and security, and intimacy, I did not think I could, and in fact had no urge to continue carrying on like that. I can also say that while I had many open, friendly relationships in the past, I never had one that was really deeply intimate...and I agree with quankanne...as I think anyone who has personally experienced the distinction would...that intense lovemaking trumps the "hottest" impersonal sex any day...

I know I've made this point, but it bears repeating. I did not say anything about polyamory. I have nothing against it, and if you want to discuss it I'm fine with that, but swinging and poly are two different animals.

 

Sorry if I went into the weeds, you're right about the difference...

 

I think swinging is a to each his own thing, but I think it is more of a personal choice hobby type of thing for people who are extremely interested in sex rather than the natural wave of society's future. Really, I do not believe that most of us care to go through all that into our 40s and 50s, and still have not heard your evidence to the contrary outside of the fact that you are doing it.

 

I am talking specifically about the notion of swinging being an increasingly common lifestyle. Obviously, you are spending time around others who are doing it, but this has been going on for years and years, I have always known a few couples in my circle who were doing it...in general, though, over human history, I feel that the same behaviors have been going on whether society accepted them...and people who hid or repressed their real urges have been a relatively minor fluctuating percentage...

 

I mean, there have always been people interested in collecting things, stamps, coins, whatever...I don't think most people are intrinsically sexual hobbyists any more than any other endeavor...so think you are off base asserting that this is how we all would be if we were big enough to admit it. I'd admit it, if it were true.

[sxyNYCcpl]

but are they REALLY all that positive when men still are setting standards for our sexuality? There's a huge difference between someone who is in touch with her sexuality and revels in it (Lizzie comes to mind, she's VERY comfortable in her skin, and while I don't agree with some of what she says, it's kind of neat seeing an older woman set her own standards when it comes to sexuality) ... and these girls who are experimenting with off the wall sexcapades because they're lead to believe that it makes the more "attractive."

 

I haven't been here long enough to even know who Lizzy is, so I guess I can't comment on that one way or the other.

 

As far as the sexcapades that women are partaking in being merely acting like men want them to... Well, that assumes facts not in evidence. I am of the opinion that virtually all the so-called differences is sexual desire between men and women is learned behavior. If I'm right that destroys your position, as what women want IS what men want IS what women want. I'll acknowledge that I could be wrong about that, and that it is a difficult concept to prove either way. But if there some specific behaviors you'd like to throw out there as being what men want, but women don't despite the fact they're providing it, it should make for an interesting conversation.

[sxyNYCcpl]

I guess then it just makes them slutty.

 

Why is that bad?

[rainfall]

Why is that bad?

 

 

 

Because I do not feel like it is OK for my SO to masturbate while he is fantasizing about slutty porn chicks. I have no respect or use for anyone who is willing to do something like the porn sluts do.

[sxyNYCcpl]

That you ARE in a sexual minority does not mean it is migrating toward a majority, so is also not an indicator...as individuals will vary.

 

Absolutely correct, my individual circumstance says nothing of the bigger picture, just like yours, or any individuals for that matter. My evidence is anecdotal, but I believe the phenomenon is growing based on a number of observations.

 

1- The sheer number of people involved. I am routinely shocked to go to a so-called lifestyle event and see 400, 500, even 600 people show up.

2- Participants seem to be including a younger audience than has historically been the case.

3- It seems venues are popping up all over the place, and grow rapidly.

 

I could list a handful of others, but you get the point.

 

I agree with quankanne...as I think anyone who has personally experienced the distinction would...that intense lovemaking trumps the "hottest" impersonal sex any day...

 

I won't disagree, but would point there's not reason not to have both.