"It Feels Like a Marriage, Even Though It's Not"

[wildsoul]

I'm reading How to Survive Your Boyfriend's Divorce, and really sparked up. This hit home and thought I'd open it up for discussion. Forgive my snipping for brevity.

 

"A separated man couples with mate-for-life intensity...One is that he hasn't had even halfway decent sex...and he is so gratefu for it and you. ...Another is he knows the value of genuine intimate connection with a woman...he's come to realize that meeting a woman he can take to bed & happily spend the whole next day with is a small miracle...

 

The force driving his devotion right now is his desperation to reattach...in order to survive... Marriage is very comfortable for men, and a separated man will instinctively seek to recreate its cozy rhythsm with the 1st woman he remotely cares for..."

 

This explains why a man who is separated, or in my case thinking of separating (when I first met him) wants to secure his next woman. They don't want to leap without having something lined up.

 

Her explanation for the woman's involvement is to lengthy to retype, so I'll summarize. Single women are starving for a man who will commit and treat us like wives. So all the excess adoration we get from the MM feeds us. Single men tend to have more personal boundaries, while the MM are used to having a full time woman, and are desperate to secure one.

 

Also, in a twisted around way, the MM seems like a good bet. Here's a guy who likes marriage, perhaps has a track record of many years, maybe a good dad already. We rationalize that his marriage failed, but he's still good marriage material. Compared to never married men who won't commit, the MM or separated M seems like "the one." And, he does his damnedest to position himself that way, with talk of the future, etc.

***

 

For me personally, I am recently out of a M. There was a lot about being married that I LOVED. Since being single again, I'm broke as hell. Lonely, Missing the safety of strong arms around me. Frankly, I worry about becoming homeless. I've got no family. It's hard. So while I wasn't looking for my next H, when I met MM it felt SO amazing. All of his overtures of affection and future talk have absolutely swayed me. Sure, I have some sense, but that stuff is potent to a weary divorcee like me. His 16 year M has seemed like a plus (he claims he was faithful) and although I know my risks (what if he's a serial cheater, what if he never divorces) that possible reward of having a M to someone who adores me so, that I have amazing sexual chemistry with, that has a track record for long term really has been driving me.

 

I am still chewing on this point. But it does help me to take a grain of salt with his overtures. I've often wondered if perhaps he was just trying to secure his next step (be it his next W or a transitional R.) This isn't new to me. Yet seeing how perfectly our mutual hunger is, does make me think I'd do well to factor that in. I don't want to be driven by hunger, yanno?

 

Thoughts?

[Agent_99]

I think you covered that pretty well.

 

As someone who has been through a divorce as well. I do miss the companionship, and it is something that I want from a potential long term gf.

 

I can also see how someone who has been in a long term relationship 'knows the ropes'. They understand (usually) how to plan and dream and work WITH someone.

 

Your post did get me thinking about my A. About how it must be relatively easy for her to meet so many of my needs. Seriously. I am not hard to please, and she is very good at the little things. Which to me count for so much. For someone else, these little things might be a lot of work. And because she is with someone who is so demanding, being in a position to 'give' me these little thoughtful things probably seems easy to her when compared to them being demanded of her.

 

Basically I'm saying that as people who were married for 13 years (me), and she has been in her R for 10, I think that part of our chemistry in that we both know how to do those things for each other that help keep a R running.

 

On a side note her and I took an interpersonal communications class together at one point (both in college) and we applied some of what we learned in that class to our A, to the ways that we talk to each other and handle conflicts with each other.

 

Just another part of the 'hunger' I guess. Wanting the things that did't work in other R's to work in our A.

 

~99

[jj33]

Very interesting WS. That would explain why they say most men who D remarry within a year or so. The ones who like being married seek to get back to that place asap.

 

In your situation, I think that there are many things to take with a grain of salt. First the book. While some men might reconnect with a friendly tree if it would laugh at their jokes and have great sex with them, you have to trust your instincts as to your connection with your guy.

 

He doesnt sound like someone who is going to jump into the first pair of open arms and if he did have to say he is very lucky they were yours.

 

On the other hand you were already focusing on actions actions actions. You are not saying yipee I have my wedding dress picked out, and the day the ink is dry I am ready to take the vows. You are monitoring the situation.

 

And he seems to be taking the right actions. So I would not spook yourself into thinking that there could be a monster under the bed. You are checking daily no need to discount the lack of monsters and think there could be an invisible monster there instead. Cut yourself a break and enjoy being happy if your gut is telling you everything is OK. There are no guarantees in life. But when the good things knock at your door you have to let them in even if there is a risk they may not stay forever if you dont, then you miss out on the possibility that they will. If you are too cautious, the course of the relationship will be different. You feed off of each others energy.

 

Others will counsel a different path no doubt. I am not as cautious as some.

[NoIDidn't]

WS

 

My dad is currently going through a divorce and I hear what you are writing about when I speak to him. My stepmom left him only a year ago and he's already *seriously* dated and broke up with FOUR women.

 

The one that sounds the most like you was the first. I knew she was done for after Thanksgiving. She got mad that he didn't show up for dinner at her house. She must have forgotten that he has much family that wanted to make sure that they saw him and fed him too. He did see her that night though, . I can only assume he tried to make it up to her.

 

I knew she was done for after Thanksgiving because he told me that he really liked her (and he did), but she was starting to smother him and asking for more than he had to give given the situation. She sensed that he was looking for a new place to lay his head, but she was too eager. The other women that he's dated and stopped dating were somewhat the opposite. They tried not to be so demanding and he didn't think they would compromise enough for him.

 

That, and my dad was, up until recently, trying very hard to get my stepmom back and still sleeping with her (until she decided that it wasn't in her best interest, lol). Does the book cover the still trying to reconcile angle? How about does it cover the still sleeping with the STBXW angle?

 

I just wish there was a book on surviving a parent's divorce. I will write it myself. I've only been through it THREE TIMES already.

[wildsoul]

WS

 

The one that sounds the most like you was the first. (snip)

 

I just wish there was a book on surviving a parent's divorce. I will write it myself. I've only been through it THREE TIMES already.

Based on your example, I cannot see why you think that one is the most like me. I'm the opposite of over eager. It's my MM that's in hot pursuit, while I am the more prudent one. *thinking* I see. Maybe it's the way I explained how I've felt lonely and so forth post-marriage. Those feelings are there, but I was steadfastly not looking for my next big R when I met MM. I was only dating very light. But his steadfast talk of us being soulmates and his constant romantic talk of our longterm future opened up all of those secret longings that I was protecting in my post-divorce heart.

 

It doesnt' matter how old you are, adapting to your parents romantic partner changes is challenging. So I hear ya! Been there, done that too.

[NoIDidn't]

Based on your example, I cannot see why you think that one is the most like me. I'm the opposite of over eager. It's my MM that's in hot pursuit, while I am the more prudent one. *thinking* I see. Maybe it's the way I explained how I've felt lonely and so forth post-marriage. Those feelings are there, but I was steadfastly not looking for my next big R when I met MM. I was only dating very light. But his steadfast talk of us being soulmates and his constant romantic talk of our longterm future opened up all of those secret longings that I was protecting in my post-divorce heart.

 

It doesnt' matter how old you are, adapting to your parents romantic partner changes is challenging. So I hear ya! Been there, done that too.

 

By most like you, I meant, recently out of a long-term relationship and still seeking a level of permanence and comfort. Eager, but not in a desperate sense. I hope that made sense.

 

But him talking all that romantic stuff sounds like he was/is grooming you for the position. Men typically don't believe in soulmates. At least, not the ones that I know. And when a man throws around all that flowery talk, they usually are trying to get you hooked. Again, at least that's my experience with those kinds of comments. And my dad said the same things to her.

 

A really horrible ex of mine would ask me if I was imaging us married if I watched him shave. I wasn't. In fact, I was just wishing he would hurry the hell up. LOL.

 

I guess I just don't trust all that mushy stuff as I could do without it if the actions don't follow.

[NoIDidn't]

It doesnt' matter how old you are, adapting to your parents romantic partner changes is challenging. So I hear ya! Been there, done that too.

 

Parents shouldn't be allowed to date after a certain age. LOL.

 

I hated each new stepmom trying to get me to call them "mom". I hated them trying to use me to impress my dad. And I told them these things up front. And afterwards had GREAT relationships with each of them based on them and not on him.

 

I can't imagine how awkward it was for these women being introduced to my dad's grown, married daughter with four kids of her own. They had to feel really naked and like I was giving them a serious once over. I wasn't. His relationships are his own.

 

Like you said, BTDT!!!

 

Sorry for the T/J.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

I see it as the same for both men and women... I don't see why people target one gender over the other in these situations. But anyhow, I think we as a people find value in marriage. It offers stability, it seems instinctually right, and despite centuries of people trying to prove otherwise, the institution still stands to this day. Men and women on a hold have it as part of their goals and drives in life. I know for me a lot of things I do is linked to that purpose (at least with all my studying and conversing on the subject and wanting to find a good job so I can date and eventually marry). Now to loose that and have it in the process of being lost is too much for those who want to be married, so they prepare themselves before hand (though I person believe even if a person is separated, he or she is NOT in a condition to effectively form a meaningful relationship (I think this is why many second and third marriages fail, not taking the proper time to form the right bonds under the right conditions in the first place).

 

Even as a single man and dating, I would never start a relationship at of a romantic nature until I know in my heart the previous relationship is over and I am not coming back. I could not do that to a woman I loved if I were married and separated or on the divorce trail... I would be too busy getting my life reestablished and my mind and spirit prepared for the change. Now to add the confusion of keeping a new relationship straight and then getting married right afterward and not giving one's self the time to adjust, it is no reason why there are usually too many issues for that marriage to stay together. And for that person on the outside (and yes he or she IS the person on the outside and need to stay their butts on the outside), why would I want to hear about their fighting and how sad they feel about what happened in the relationship, etc. Why would I want to see how poorly each one could treat the other (since most divorces are NOT pleasant or easy) in order to get what they want (my reasoning is this, "If they can do that to the man/woman... What makes me REALLY think that can't happen to me?) And lastly, lets not forget about any children that might be involved (as well as friends and family). All these things add to the chaos of a broken marriage and to put one's self in the middle of that would be akin to standing in front of a stamped of horses.

 

In short, there are a lot of "good" reasons why men AND women who are separated get into other relationships, but to them and the unwise who get involved with separated people, they are not doing anyone any real favors and rarely get what they wanted should the romance continue after the divorce or if it is torn away by the married spouse getting back with their spouse.

 

 

DNR

[OWoman]

Single women are starving for a man who will commit and treat us like wives. So all the excess adoration we get from the MM feeds us. Single men tend to have more personal boundaries, while the MM are used to having a full time woman, and are desperate to secure one.

 

Wow WS, for me it's exactly the opposite!!!

 

I have never wanted a man to commit - on the contrary, I've hit the dump button as soon as they've shown the slightest inclination in that direction. Being treated like a wife would be the very very worst thing any guy could do to me - I'd consider that grounds for justifiable homicide!

 

I've found the LACK of personal boundaries that SGs have to be very off-putting - I have very strong personal boundaries and one of the attractions for me about MMs has been the way they are respectful of those (in the main... though at a point some of them start getting clingy and soppy and then it's time for the ejector seat again). My current MM has retained his sense of respect for boundaries and personal space, despite our incredible intimacy - which I guess is the reason he's lasted!

 

Guess that's the reason I have problems with so many of these self-help books - they make sweeping assumptions based on gender (or other role) stereotypes that simply don't resonate even remotely for me, or anyone I know IRL.

 

Thanks for the tip though - I've been referred to that book before, and you've saved me the expense and time of buying it only to have to rip it to shreds in frustration!

[Owl]

This is exactly why I've often said that you're not the "standard" other woman, Owoman. Your views on monogamy even further add to that difference.

 

Your views, and Lizzie's...are distinctly different from those of most of the "other women" that come here for advice.

 

There's a reason for those 'sweeping generalizations'...they apply to the vast majority.

 

There are always exceptions to pretty much anything...the reason those books don't apply much to you is because you're the exception...not the majority.

 

Not an attack...just wanted to throw in my comments so my prior postings to you made perhaps a little more sense.