Should I Pretend I Don't Care (When I Do)?

[phoenixrising]

I agree. Not once did I hear Bob say about the "woman he loves" that he is happy she has found someone she may be able to build a relationship with. All I hear is what Bob wants but can't have, and not a THING about how he is happy she is pursuing her relationship goals for her life.

 

Love in any form, be it friendship or a romance, involves giving to the other person, and partnering with them to achieve the things in life that make them happy. I'm not seeing love in its true form here...

 

Keep posting, Bob... I'm learning quite a lot that is helping me understand what is going on the head of my xMM. I'm not sure I like it, but it's sure helping me to come to the realization that he isn't necessarily thinking about me and my best interests... while this hurts to the core, it's helping me immensely in my efforts to let go of him and move on. Perhaps we need more MM on this site to shed some reality on the male mind perspective, and what we are dealing with as OW. Though I respect that all situations are different, it does appear that Bob is grappling with a lot of emotional confusion due to his conflicting feelings of friendly love for his W, and sexual love for his OW. I just wish these MM would have the strength to work on their dilemma on their own before bringing an innocent woman into the picture to help them work things through...

[Bob54]

Wow, after reading all these replies, I feel like a really selfish bastard...and I suppose that's how I'm acting right now. Like a selfish 16 yr. old with a really bad first crush on that cheerleader he can never have...

 

There isn't much I can say in my own defense, really - you are all right - but I can truly tell you that marrying my pregnant wife 15 yrs ago was an unselfish thing to do. Staying in a loveless marriage and being a good dad to my kids (who I love more than anything in this world) is pretty unselfish - does anyone else see this? Putting my own sexual needs and romantic desires aside for the greater good of the family is unselfish as well. I've sacrificed a lot of things I really wanted in my life so as not to be selfish.

 

While my wife had multiple affairs, I stayed home and watched the kids. I wanted her to be happy, even when it meant I was miserable and lonely. I don't know how to be any more unselfish than that.

 

But, finally someone comes along, someone who turns my heart inside out and for once in my whole adult life, I feel like being a little selfish. It might be easy to think after all I've given up, maybe I've earned the right to feel that way. But I realize it's just not in my nature to be.

 

PhoenixRising asked what do I ultimately want? If I could have it my way?

 

Well, I'd want to be selfish for once! I'd like to have a woman who adores me and who I adore. I want to have hot, toe-curling s*x and feel all those warm, gooey feelings everyday of my life for as many years as I've got left. And if I could paint a picture of the future I want, it would be living with this OW and my children as a family someday. I'd like to find out what a truly happy marriage is for once.

 

The more I read about how others here view this OW, the more I love her. Everything you all have said about her is right: she IS too smart for this. She IS too good for this. She DOES deserve so much more than I can presently offer, and she IS right to leave me behind for a single guy.

 

That doesn't make it hurt any less, tho'. In time, I will find a way to be happy for her. I'm capable of unselfish, unconditional love, but it takes a while to get to that point when your heart is aching for someone.

 

But I do want this woman to be happy, even if it's not with me.

[Bob54]

Though I respect that all situations are different, it does appear that Bob is grappling with a lot of emotional confusion due to his conflicting feelings of friendly love for his W, and sexual love for his OW. I just wish these MM would have the strength to work on their dilemma on their own before bringing an innocent woman into the picture to help them work things through...

 

Yes, but sometimes we don't fully realize our dilemma until we meet that special someone who makes us see the 800-lb. gorilla in the living room.

 

In my case, I can honestly say it was never my intent to bring an innocent woman into the picture. She just showed up in my life one day, and now I have to face some hard realities because of feelings I never expected to feel again in my life. I'd given up on the concept of love.

 

Believe me, sometimes I wish I'd never met the OW. Ignorance and dullness can be a form of bliss. Had I not met her, I probably could have plodded along for another 15 years in my marriage & never looked for anything anywhere else.

[2sunny]

are you sure you only want her (OW) more now because she is seeing someone else? be honest...

[Bob54]

are you sure you only want her (OW) more now because she is seeing someone else? be honest...

 

Well, I wanted her so badly before, but yeah, now that she's met someone else and seems happy about it, Im about to go nuts!!!

 

And oh, the "What if's".....

 

Why do we guys always react like that? I don't know. What is it about the thought of the woman we want being w/ someone else that makes us act like insane, needy children? It's that old, "I might not be playing with my toy, but it's still MY toy and you can't play with it!?"

 

Stupid, I know. She's not a toy, she's not mine. I don't get a vote. I know, I know...

[phoenixrising]

Bob, because you are saying the exact words that I've heard many times from xMM I truly do feel you are doing the unselfish thing by giving up your needs to keep your family together as a unit. That is your choice. Unfortunately, however, you end up being selfish with the woman who has finally captured your heart. Do you realize how confusing that is for the OW when she hears from you that she's 'the one', yet you are selfish with her, and unselfish with your W and family? We also see that other men have divorced, and have been strong enough to maintain a "family" even though the parents live in separate homes, and 'mom and dad' don't sleep together. I co-parent with my xH, go to kid events with he and his GF, etc., and many divorced men have done the same.

 

Many of us here who have fallen in love and ended up as the OW simply want the same thing that you do - "to find out what a truly happy marriage is for once." If we commit to a MM we give up that dream for ourselves, unless he happens to end his marriage. And why would we give up our dream for a life of 'waiting'? Never sharing his life? Not being able to be there for his highs and his lows, to support him in achieving his goals and dreams? If he's married we can't carry out actions that show him how much he is loved... so it's impossible to move into the depths of where real love can lead... and the OW ends up frustrated. I'm glad your OW had the foresight to see this, for her sake.

 

I hope, for you, that time heals all. But I believe you will be permanently changed by this, as I have been. Being with the love of your life, knowing you are loved in return, is gonna be a hard act to follow for any relationship I enter into from this point on. I'm glad your OW stopped it before it came to this, and am happy that she has opportunities that she might not have had had she pursued a more intimate relationship with you.

[phoenixrising]

"....sometimes we don't fully realize our dilemma until we meet that special someone who makes us see the 800-lb. gorilla in the living room."

 

 

And now you have one more permanent member of the family - the gorilla. Life has changed, and you have some choices to make for your own piece of mind. Accept the gorilla and put it behind the curtain while you get on with your family life, or address the issue and make some changes in your life that can allow you to pursue your dream of a happy marriage.

 

If you keep trying to live the fantasy, you'll end up with another OW at some point, or you'll be pining away for this OW for the rest of your life. If this is 'marriage' to you, fine. Or you can listen to your heart, deep inside, and take actions that are honest and pure, and that lead to a new direction with your life.

 

I wish you the best.

[2sunny]

Bob-

 

there is so much i want to say to you - and i need to sort out my thoughts about all of which is in front of you...

 

the first being a basic thought of divorce. i am catholic, have a big family, have a few kids and am divorced. this would normally be unacceptable in my family but extenuating circumstances allowed my family to see the situation as a much better life than staying married. your family may be more understanding than you think if they know you will be a happier person in the long run. YOUR happiness is what they ultimately want for you.

 

 

through the divorce - our kids have never suffered or been denied access to either parent. we allow the versatility of time spent with each parent to fall on the boy's schedules.

 

even when they are at their Dad's house they still drop by to see me most every day... sometimes several times a day. it may be just to get a shower or something to eat, chat for a bit or just to play with the dog. anyway - point is... i see them a lot when they aren't supposed to technically be here... because they know i like them to come by whenever they can. sometimes they just stay the night because they are already here.

 

this is in addition to the 50% visitation that we have formally set up.

 

don't think that just because you divorce - you don't see them everyday. you would if you set it up that way and allow them to understand that you want to see them whenever time will allow it.

 

more to come... but that's a start for now.

 

what are your thoughts on that alone?

[Bob54]

PhoenixRising, thank you for your wisdom and compassion. I can tell you've really been there and I can learn a lot from you. Most of all, I can learn what not to do, right?

 

2sunny, sounds like you've been through what I'm considering doing now: to gracefully exit my marriage and work out a fair custody agreement that makes everyone happy. What you say makes sense and I think my wife and I would part amicably. We've been friends all these years, and I see no reason why we wouldn't stay friends after a divorce. Not just for the sake of the kids, but because we genuinely like each other.

 

My greatest fear is losing custody of my kids. I know judges tend to rule in favor of the wife (even if she's been unfaithful in the marriage), and unfortunately, I have had some substance abuse problems in my past (long ago...conquered that 10 yrs. ago &never looked back) which could easily get me ruled as unfit. I'm afraid as soon as the judge sees my arrest for possession, even if it was years ago, custody will be denied.

 

Also, my job requires that I travel 2-3 days per week, 40 weeks per year. One of the "convenient' reasons I've stayed in the marriage is b/c the wife takes care of the kids when I'm traveling...then I return the favor on the weekends I'm home. In essence, we already have a shared custody agreement, this is how it's worked for years. But no judge would grant me custody as an "absentee" dad. With me gone that much, I wonder if I'd even get 50/50 custody. I've been in my job for 25 years and am too close to retirement to consider leaving it now.

 

Do these seem like the huge insurmountable obstacles I perceive them to be? I'd give up anything (including a chance at love with this OW) for my kids. Losing them would devastate me completely.

[whichwayisup]

I'm sure your wife would allow you joint custody. As long as you keep the OW out of your kids lives until THEY are ready to meet her. I wouldn't move in with the OW and then expect to have your kids living with you, with her there.

 

Anyway, if you and your wife can end things peacefully and with respect for one another, custody shouldn't even BE an issue. It shouldn't even go to court if you're on great terms with your wife.

 

I just hope you're ending your marriage for YOU, not for the OW. I mean, even if you divorce, it doesn't mean the OW will want to end up with you...And if that happens, hopefully you're OK with being alone and having neither your wife or OW.

[2sunny]

so - granted that if you decide to live on your own and have your kids with you half the time... can you imagine that as happy for you? happy alone or with another woman...

 

even if you travel a lot and have HISTORY of abuse - not many judges will deny a parent that is decent and has good intentions the right to see their kids. if you don't ask for what you want - you won't get it. ASK! just work visitation around your travel days. they need you as much as their mother.

 

several years later - i still don't have my almost adult kids meet who i date. i just like that part of my life to be separate. it makes it easier for everyone involved. keep things simple and uncomplicated and life is just happier.

 

yes, i have loved several men with a passion in my years - but since my divorce (i was married for 20 years) i have never been in a position to make the commitment - and to have it work out. it may be for a number of reasons that i don't like to admit to myself. i seem to mess things up on purpose every time. so, i have men that are my dearest friends - and that is enough for now. now that a few years have passed you would think i could move forward - but i am happy the way things are.

 

it still doesn't take away the fact that i know that i have loved with all my heart - and that they will also love me until the day i die. for some reason i find comfort in those thoughts. that is enough for me to be really happy.

[LadyDi]

I think I'm in the minority here, but I say sit down with the OW and spill it. Tell her it all. See what she says and go from there. If you've finally found love, for goodness sakes.....go for it. Life is too short. Follow your heart. People adjust, people move on and get over things. Divorce isn't the end of the universe.

[norajane]

Well, I'd want to be selfish for once! I'd like to have a woman who adores me and who I adore. I want to have hot, toe-curling s*x and feel all those warm, gooey feelings everyday of my life for as many years as I've got left. And if I could paint a picture of the future I want, it would be living with this OW and my children as a family someday. I'd like to find out what a truly happy marriage is for once.

 

Then get a divorce. It'll be your second divorce, so maybe a third marriage someday will be the charm. Just don't do it for THIS OW. She may not be so interested once you divorce, or the relationship might fail (that age difference could be a real problem...do you want more kids? OW might!). Do it because you no longer want to be married to your wife and are open to whatever comes your way after.

[Reggie]

For Pete sake, Bob, get a divorce. Wtf are you so afraid of. Your wife has had multiple affairs and you've had to live like a monk. Just get out so you can find someone else. It is not that complicated.

[Bob54]

Should I be brave enough to make the jump out of my marriage, maybe custody wouldn't be as big an issue as I was worried about before. My kids often travel with me for my work (on summer vacation, they go with me everywhere), and I think the wife and I could work that part out between ourselves hopefully not having to involve the courts.

 

But because of the many factors I've outlined previously in this thread, and a few others I haven't talked about, divorce is not that easy, or quite simply, we would have done it long ago. We've talked about it many times, but always agreed it was best to just keep things as they are.

 

And yes, should we try a separation or actual divorce, I would have to be clear that this is for me and my own growth, not for the sake of an OW.

 

I would definitely be keeping the OW and my kids away from each other for a while...that would only serve to make the process more confusing for them. It might take years until I'm ready to finally introduce them.

[jj33]

Bob the fact that it would be years before you were ready to introduce OW to your kids speaks volumes. She deserves to be with someone who can see being integrated into someone's life once he is divorced. So you really need to be clear that you may be alone, you may be with someone else. Of course there is also the fact that OW is seeing someone else so that is not a guaranteed option. But sometimes people come into our lives for other reasons than to be "the one". Maybe she came into your life to show you that you need to leave.

[Spicymomma72]

Yes it is a bit difficult to fathom a divorce from your spouse, but it's just as hard living an unhappy fruitless life. Trust me when I say, if you both can sit down and talk things out. Agree to disagree and move on with your lives, it would most likely turn out for the best for all of you. It's just hard right now because its a big step but its not a step backwards. Times change, people change. Just roll with the flow. No, it's not as easy as it sounds, but you'll be quite happy in the end. I'm newly divorced and I can tell you, it was a long hard road but I don't regret a thing. Best of all, my spouse and I are still cordial so it's easier on the kids AND on us. Best of luck.

[Owl]

Bob, you never have addressed my questions about this situation in conjunction with your faith.

 

I get that divorce is against the tenets of your faith...so is infidelity, right?

 

What IS your highest priority? Your faith (that you attend daily mass for) or your affair?

 

How do you handle that conflict (or do you just avoid it?)?

[serial muse]

Should I be brave enough to make the jump out of my marriage, maybe custody wouldn't be as big an issue as I was worried about before. My kids often travel with me for my work (on summer vacation, they go with me everywhere), and I think the wife and I could work that part out between ourselves hopefully not having to involve the courts.

 

But because of the many factors I've outlined previously in this thread, and a few others I haven't talked about, divorce is not that easy, or quite simply, we would have done it long ago. We've talked about it many times, but always agreed it was best to just keep things as they are.

 

Well, sure - it's usually easier to maintain the status quo. But, to be a bit blunt, at least some of that sounds a bit too much like laziness on the part of you and your wife. In addition to fear of the unknown.

 

I get that you're afraid of not seeing your kids, but from what you've said of the relationship you have with your wife, it sounds like your fears are pure speculation and not based in any real research! So why not get some solid answers?

 

Best of all would be to work something out with your wife - do you have any reason to think she would stand in the way of joint custody? because it sort of sounds like you're not entirely sure she'll allow that. But that aside, you might as well actually consult with a lawyer to find out whether you'd have legal recourse. Why not at least get some real legal information, instead of continuing to wallow in the unbased fears?

 

Anxiety about the unknown is almost always worse than the reality. It can't hurt you to actually find out what your options are, legally.

[Bob54]

Bob, you never have addressed my questions about this situation in conjunction with your faith.

 

I get that divorce is against the tenets of your faith...so is infidelity, right?

 

What IS your highest priority? Your faith (that you attend daily mass for) or your affair?

 

How do you handle that conflict (or do you just avoid it?)?

 

Sorry,`bout that, Owl. Here's my best shot at your questions:

 

Yes, divorce is a big no-no in my church, as is infidelity. As of this writing, my wife has broken that tenet on many occasions. I have not. At least, not in the physical sense...

 

What is my highest priority? My kids. The OW may be on my mind constantly, but she is not yet a real priority in my real-world life...because it wouldn't be fair to her until I've worked things out on my own. And she's made it clear she'll settle for nothing less than 100%.

 

How do I handle the conflict? Well, first, I pray. I cry a lot in private, I worry, I think in circles, I spend a lot of time by myself lately. Maybe this is avoidance, but I look at it more as some important introspection I must go through in order to make a clear decision. This is the kind of choice that no one else should have influence over, especially the OW, because when I start thinking about her, all rational ideas go out the window!

[Owl]

Sorry,`bout that, Owl. Here's my best shot at your questions:

 

Yes, divorce is a big no-no in my church, as is infidelity. As of this writing, my wife has broken that tenet on many occasions. I have not. At least, not in the physical sense...

 

But you have. Being unfaithful isn't all about 'the flesh', as you've found out. You KNOW that you're being unfaithful...that's why you're posting here in the first place. Don't try to mitigate or hide behind it. Don't try to make it sound "justified" by your wife's choice to cheat first. "She started it!" hasn't been a viable defense since first grade.

 

What is my highest priority? My kids. The OW may be on my mind constantly, but she is not yet a real priority in my real-world life...because it wouldn't be fair to her until I've worked things out on my own. And she's made it clear she'll settle for nothing less than 100%.

 

Fair enough. What will how you handle this situation teach your kids? What will it teach them about love, vows, commitments? What will it teach them about reconciling your faith with your actions? Between choosing what you want vs choosing what you know is right?

 

How do I handle the conflict? Well, first, I pray. I cry a lot in private, I worry, I think in circles, I spend a lot of time by myself lately. Maybe this is avoidance, but I look at it more as some important introspection I must go through in order to make a clear decision. This is the kind of choice that no one else should have influence over, especially the OW, because when I start thinking about her, all rational ideas go out the window!

 

You're wrong here...this is a choice that EVERYONE has influence over. OW has influence on this choice because you've let her into your heart. She's changing your very view on marriage, on your faith.

 

And there are people out there that SHOULD have some influence in your choice here. If your faith is important to you, then your faith should play a major role in your decision making process. Your friends, your family, those people who care about you but can stand back and look at this objectively should all play a small role in how you decide to work through this. Your priest should likely do so as well, since your faith is critical to you.

 

Your children should influence your choices as well, as I outlined above.

 

This choice doesn't just impact you...the ripples reach far beyond just you and OW. Your wife, your kids, your family, your friends...how your kids form THEIR values as a result of the examples you set for them...that is a LONG term affect of that choice, and should be considered as an "influence" in your decision making process.

 

You mention that you pray about this a lot. Good...what answers is God giving you? Where are you looking for those answers? I would think that you would first start in His word...the Bible. Have you tried sitting and praying for a while...then going to the Bible to see what it tells you from there?

[Bob54]

Oh my God. I can't believe this just happened. I'm totally devastated.

 

Out of the blue, and with no warning, OW contacts me yesterday and tells me (very nicely, I might add, which only makes it hurt more) that she thinks it would be for the best if we didnt see or talk to each other anymore. HUH? I thought we were supposed to be friends, at least?

 

She didn't give much of an explanation, other than saying it might be awkward if we continued to be close friends now that she is seeing someone new, and because I'm married, etc...I can see her point on this, but does it makes sense for her to just cut me out of her life totally?

 

I had so many questions I wanted to ask her as to what pushed her to make this decision, but our talk was brief and that's probably a good thing. Had we talked too much, I know I probably would have said some words I might regret, because my first reaction was to feel hurt/angry.

 

So I guess she didn't really mean it wen she offered to be "just friends," it worked for awhile, but as you've seen throughout the course of this thread, shes grown increasingly distant and lately just started dating this new guy in her life. And since then, she's been very absent as a friend.

 

I don't know. I just feeldevastated and betrayed. I was seriously ready to turnn my life upside down over this woman, and now it seems she really doesn't care what I do. She made that clear by cutting all contact. In other words, she wants no future, of any kind, with me.

 

Was she just leading me on allthis time, acting like a friend to me, when she planned to get rid of me all along? Probabbly not, but right now all kinds of illogical thoughts are flying through my brain. Nothing makes sense and I've got all these things I'd want to say to her bottled up inside. Been walking around having conversations in my head with her all day, thinking of all the stuff I wanted to ask her yesterday but didn't.

 

Now I'll never get the chance to say anything, except to myself, about it. And here at the LoveShack...thank God this place exists. If I didn't have a place to vent right now, I think my head would probably explode!

 

HELP? Advice? Thoughts, anyone? Is it over? Will I ever see her again?

 

God, I'm crushed. Gonna go cry in my cereal like a teenager now...

[whichwayisup]

but does it makes sense for her to just cut me out of her life totally?

 

Yes. She is looking out for number one - HERSELF. You are married, she is free to do as she pleases. She's met someone else, sees alot of potiential in that new relationship and she has every right to tell you goodbye. You have no choice but to accept that.

 

Once lines have been crossed, you cannot go back to being just friends. In her case, I'm sure the new guy does NOT want her around you, and I'm sure she wants to give this a shot. There's no future for her with you, she knows this, you know this. All it would be is an affair, and obviously this woman is VERY smart and secure, for her to end it and walk away. Sorry you're hurting, but good for her!!

 

Focus that energy into fixing yourself, your wife and making your marriage better.

[jj33]

Bob I can appreciate that it is difficult. and I am sorry you are hurt. But from her position, you were showing no signs of being anything but married. She did not know that you were even contemplating leaving. She stopped things before she got involved with you. For her it ended then or so it sounds.

 

She sounds like a very grounded woman. She was not willing to even contemplate an affair with a married man who and was not willing to sit and wait for a married man to decide if he was leaving. To her you were off limits. Not an option. And she made that decision and moved on.

 

You are in a difficult situation and you hung on to the idea that this was THE LOVE and that someday if you found the will to leave, she would be there for you. But life doesnt work that way. She is a free agent. She could have been waiting years for you to work through this and to determine if you really felt you could go against your faith, your family your community and jeopardise your finances. a few weeks ago you asked if she was telling you about the other guy to make you jealous. She was not. That was her moving on.

 

I know you dont want to hear this but I think she was a focus for you - she helped you to focus on the possibliity of finding happiness with someone else. Because you were not treating her a a person with an independent life. You only talked about her as she related to your life your timetable your decisions. You didnt seem to realize that she has her life, her considerations and her options. Which she has exercised.

And the fact that you were not hte sun around which her life revolved does not mean she didnt care for you. it just means she was realistic. And didnt put herself in the situtaoin so many of use on loveshack have put ourselves in. It means she was wiser.

 

Use this as a wake up call. You dont leave FOR someone else. You leave for yourself. If you were that close to leaving and are that unhappy in your marriage that you would seriously have left, then maybe you need to think of leaving anyway, for yourself.

[Bob54]

jj, you said something in this thread a week or two ago about "maybe this OW came into your life to teach you something"...and at the time, I just kind of filed that away and prayed on what that life lesson might be.

 

I think I'm starting to learn it now.