Strip Clubs Not Just About Lap Dances

[Tomcat33]

 

 

He accompanied me to the therapist once, 2 weeks ago to "pay the piper" in his words. Told me yesterday he's not going back. I am overreacting and giving this much more power than it ever had on its own. Therefore, it is my problem. Nice, huh? So glad he checked that box. The therapist says the key to getting over this will be thru his empathy and disclosure. Still working on that.

 

 

 

Stepmom you are NOT overreacting, this is not your problem it is clearly his, and the idea the he refuses to go back to therapy with you is the typical reaction of someone who does not wish to accept the severity of his acctions or stop what he is doing.

 

Look I've talked to security guards that have worked as bouncers at very high end strip clubs, let me tell you prostiution DOES happen, bjs and even full blown sex. They have been witness to it many times and they tend to look the other way. In fact one told me that these days the girls need to compete by offering more than just a dance if they want to make money, all it takes is one or two to do it and the others go along because they don't want to fall behind on the money.

 

25K for one night C'MON there was definitely something going in that VIP room. Regardless you have much bigger fish to fry, you are married to a man who lies to you and needs to conduct business at a brothel, pretty much, and he is downplaying your emotions about this AND your marriage by dismissing what he did as routine or standard proceedure.

 

I don't blame you one bit for being upset and do not let him talk you out of what you are feeling this is disgusting, not so much that he went to a strip joint the idea that he is downplaying it and expecting you to back off and stop overreacting. Furthermore, mark my words he will keep lying to you and will dig deeper to hide this from you next time because there will be a next time.

 

On a side note even "if" "nothing" happened the idea that they paid for a private room for 5 hours (or how ever long) and there were three men in that room with women lathering their dirty crotches all over them is disgusting enough and he crawled into bed with you and faced his children after that. Look it's one thing to go to a stripjoint after work to "conduct business" for an hour out in the open a bunch of guys it's another to book a private room until the morning hours to whore around. He is a married man and as that he should have the BALLS to say "look guys" I have to go I have a wife at home, and that's that. He OWES you that, just as he "owed" his business colleagues a trip to the rippers he OWES you a trip home at a decent time. Talk about no self respect!

 

He is flat out lying to you in a big way. Sorry SM.

[Tomcat33]

In the case of the high end clubs, this is supplemented by the experiece of being a "big shot". You get to show off how much money you can afford to blow, you get pampered and fawned over, you get to hang in the "VIP room", etc. The average exec gets to pretend to be a movie star or celebrity for a while.

 

 

Excuse me but the average exec IS a movie star wherever he goes, he is totally used to being fawned over and made a fuss over wherever he goes, if he goes to hang out at the peelers it's because he likes the ceediness of the whole sexual experience and he can get sex and then leave.

[djhall]

Excuse me but the average exec IS a movie star wherever he goes, he is totally used to being fawned over and made a fuss over wherever he goes, if he goes to hang out at the peelers it's because he likes the ceediness of the whole sexual experience and he can get sex and then leave.

Okay, you know what I mean... yes, if you are an exec of a Fortune 500 company then sure. I'm sure there are a lot of guys are making $250 - $300k who aren't treated like a big shot normally who can still affford to blow $5,000 every once in a while to be treated like a big shot for a few hours.

[2sunny]

Okay, you know what I mean... yes, if you are an exec of a Fortune 500 company then sure. I'm sure there are a lot of guys are making $250 - $300k who aren't treated like a big shot normally who can still affford to blow $5,000 every once in a while to be treated like a big shot for a few hours.

 

in my area this kind of money earned is commonplace. and sure... dropping 5K is no big deal to most... depends on if the spouse pays attention to what is earned, spent and what it is spent on. some would never notice if it were a regular expense in their household budget.

[Tomcat33]

Okay, you know what I mean... yes, if you are an exec of a Fortune 500 company then sure. I'm sure there are a lot of guys are making $250 - $300k who aren't treated like a big shot normally who can still affford to blow $5,000 every once in a while to be treated like a big shot for a few hours.

 

 

Yes I see what you mean, in my line of work I deal with a lot of execs both Fortune types and at a VP level, and they are rockstars just by virtue of their corporate status. They are constantly reaping the benefits of their titles and believe me they do not need to go there to feel lke big shots, they ARE big shots. They are there for the sexual aspect. What you are describing seems more like the frat boy who got his first real job income, type mentality.

 

I sat at lunch the other day with a friend from work at a restuarant that is exactly accross from a strip joint, it was a friday afternoon prob around 3pm. Beautiful sunny day and we sat there talking away and I happend to notice a few of the men that went in and came out were men in suits and alone. The ones going in hurried in and the ones coming out having to adjust their faces from the darkness of the club to the sunlight of a beautiful Friday afternoon looking at their watches and adjusting their ties was really depressing to see. Here was this whole world scurrying around on a Friday afternoon waiting to get the weekend going and these men were coming out alone in a suit from a lunch hour spent cooped up in a stripjoint.

 

It is the most depressing sight. That's more of a sexual addiction and not a need to be made to feel like a big shot.

[Stepmom]

Just want to say I am really appreciating all input on this thread. There are many views to consider. James, I do believe high end Manhattan escorts might even be less than $600/hour. I believe my husband and his cronies chose a SC because they did not want sex, just "entertainment". Apparently their clients like being "entertained" in this fashion and it has won them a lot of business (disgusting, I know). He insists this will not happen again and I do believe him. Told me there was never anything gratifying enough about these experiences to justify my hurt and he feels stupid for ever having participated. Says he realizes he made a big mistake. Told me he thought my reaction would be one of disapproval like when I don't like his choice of adolescent movie type or something (which was how I reacted 5 yrs ago when I last confronted him) as opposed to this gut-wrenching pain. You'd probably have to know him and see the body language, facial expressions to understand why I say I believe him. I realize there are many guys who would just go on but I really don't think this will be the case. I will be watching, however, and he knows it. He has already told one of the guys he is not going back. He cancelled a Nov trip to a conference in Vegas at my request.

 

As for sex in the SC, I know it happens. One or two large NYC clubs were recently shut down for prostitution in the "back, back" rooms. My therapist has clients who have told her they have had sex in that environment which she told my husband. I am well aware it might have happened and that my husband is too ashamed to tell me but I have reason to think this was not the case. If I am wrong, would/should that influence my position on staying or going? Even though sex or happy endings probably didn't take place, I still consider this behavior, particularly the 1 stripper per guy per evening to be akin to prostitution.

 

In this particular NYC club, the fees are all prepaid, by credit card, so the girls are guaranteed their $$. I know in some clubs strippers do more to make more, but in this case you almost wouldn't have to since the room is reserved for a predetermined time and your fee is prepaid.

 

Tomcat I know I am not overreacting and I too am disappointed in his failure to be more forthcoming with detail. His obvious embarrassment and shame put him on the defensive about most aspects of the subject (it is a bit like trying to get info from a teenager), but there are times when I can tell he is being authentic in his feedback. For me it's tough to question him without sounding like an interrogator which seems to cause further shutdown. That is why I am convincing him to come back to therapy. We talked about it again last night and I think I made some progress. Remember, I'm dealing with someone here who doesn't feel great about himself to begin and is desperate to get let off the hook. Hence the limited accountability. He also feels as though I don't accept what he tells me as true, that I read more in books about stripping and then accuse him of things he never experienced. He feels I am only out to "rake him over the coals". While that has never been my purpose, I can't say it hasn't been a gratifying consequence.

[JamesM]

The problem is, the girls don't really enjoy the contact or like the customers, and it is hard to pretend convincingly otherwise. Even if they are as convincing as hell, the rules and the structure of the environment don't really let you forget. "Oh, you are so cute, you get me so excited, hey, don't touch!' "Oh, you are so interesting and fun to be with, but the song just ended, so do you have another $20?"

 

Actually, they ARE pretty convincing. And it all depends on the girl. While many girls do this for money and do not enjoy it per se as sex, the good ones can either act really good or do get into it. Money is a great motivator.

 

And as a guy you would know, that once the guy's little brain gets into it, he forgets that it is all an act.

 

And no, the ladies don't say "you are fun and interesting to be with," but they say," Honey, that was so much fun, do you want to continue?" .... and they do so with a breathless whisper in your ear. Or, "The song ended, but I really liked my time with you. Shall we continue?" Or, "I have never met anyone like you..."

 

It is all an act, and they get paid for how well they do. Why do you think so well of certain actresses and actors? Because they are convincing.

 

First not every guy want to leave with a wet spot on the front of his pants and underwear full of cum.

 

Correct. Guys who know come prepared.

 

Second, when the happy ending happens, the flow of cash ends too, and guys aren't going to keep paying for tease when they know they can get an orgasm.

 

You make an assumption that the guy knows he will get an orgasm. Every girl plays differently. Yes, the cash flow ends, but the girls have a pretty good idea when the customer is running out of time and money. Besides, most of the fun is not the ending, it is the journey there.

 

It is all about bringing the guy to the highest point of excitement.

 

How do you know when you've gotten all their cash?

 

Much as we guys would not like to admit it, women can read us so easily.

 

You gotta draw the line unless you are going to front for prostitution and risk the whole business, and the line gets drawn typically at not getting the customer off.

 

It is all a game. And yes, some places do get busted. There are websites on line that give reviews for every strip club in the nation. Every state has different rules, and every area has different levels of laxity. What is unexpected in Michigan is normal in Florida.

 

As for prostitution, I suppose you do not realize that Asian Massage Parlors (AMPs) are more than a place for a good massage by an Asian woman?

 

Because the guys usually are not looking for sex per se. In a typical strip club, even a regular guy who is nothing most women would look twice at gets to look at attractive naked women half his age who are willing to pretend that he is interesting and attractive and a magnet for all kinds of horny young women.

 

This is very true, and you have the true secret as to why guys keep going to strip clubs. It is all about an ego massage.

 

In the case of the high end clubs, this is supplemented by the experiece of being a "big shot". You get to show off how much money you can afford to blow, you get pampered and fawned over, you get to hang in the "VIP room", etc. The average exec gets to pretend to be a movie star or celebrity for a while.

 

Also, true. But even really stupid guys quit going if there is not some sort of sexual thrill. Some guys simply enjoy the fact that they can get some touching in. Others like the fact that this may be "the time." It is a crap shoot. Sometimes you get it, and sometimes you don't. Most of the time it is about having a continual "rush" of sex, power, and thrill.

 

Having said that, I agree. Most strip clubs do not have routine prostitution happening. Each club has its limits and the girls know how much they can get away with. Girls know that the more excited the guy gets, the more likely he will give more money.

 

It is all about the money.

[Lizzie60]

Lizzie there was no sex and no bj's. I am certain of that.

 

Good for you if you believe that.. it makes it easier to swalllow..

 

2Sunny I know exactly which club they went to in Manhattan. It took the therapist to get that disclosure.

 

So no one ever lie to therapists?

 

The credit card shows the charges as a Steakhouse, not a club, which was why I didn't figure this out sooner.

 

This is a cover-up.. good gosh..

 

The question for me is do the strippers actually get the entire $600 per hour?

 

So that's your concern..

 

Sorry but you're dealing with a liar and you'll soon find out more stuff about him..

 

When men/women are intoxicated their 'value system' goes down the drain..

[Stepmom]

Lizzie I get all your points and am trying to sort out fact from fiction. My question about the economics of that night was how much the strippers netted out of that deal, but it is not my most important question.

 

While I know my husband lied to cover this up and it has created a huge rift for us, I do know he has always been brutally honest about other things...not minding whether the recipient is uncomfortable with the truth. It is part of why I am surprised this has been going on. He initially admitted to it when it was first brought up years ago. I do know he is not into porn and is not a sex addict. He has never had a problem being accountable for his time outside of this and when not out for work is always home at night with me.

 

I could be angrier than I am, insisting there are more hidden truths, but what if everything he is telling me is the truth? At some point I have to take his word if we are going to re-establish trust and work through this though the lying complicates that for sure. We have talked ad nauseum about all aspects of this since June and I don't have the feeling there is more to come out. Is it possible to consider this a major mistake on his part? One that can be overcome?

 

Once the location was disclosed, I was able to prove its validity with a simple web search. He hadn't disclosed the location because he didn't want me to make the connection to the $25K bill I paid. Not admirable for sure, but I think it's all out in the open now.

[JamesM]

Stepmom, I am somewhere in between you and Lizzie. Since I am well aware of what goes on in some clubs, then I have a hard time believing that for 25K nothing more than some clinical lapdances happened.

 

As a guy, sometimes the best way to tell a lie is to tell a partial truth. And if that partial truth comes out slowly, it is even better. I am not saying that your guy is doing that, yet I have to say that if little bits keep coming out slowly, then like Lizzy, I am afraid of what is not being said.

 

However, having said all of that, as a wife, I think all you can do is go forward and assume the best. It will take a lot of trust building on his side, and quite a bit of forgiving on your side, but it is not as difficult as it seems now.

 

Remember, this is not an affair. And on the scale of cheating (I just made one up ), then this ranks in the middle to lower half. For many women, it would barely make a mark.

 

Keep pushing for complete communication from him.

 

As for porn and sexual addiction, interestingly enough, a guy who goes to strip clubs with other guys is usually NOT the kind who is going to strip clubs because he is a sex addict.

[Lizzie60]

I agree with James.. partial truths can hide a whole lot of other stuff..

 

anyway.. like you said.. it's done.. and you have to move on with your life. Like James said... this wasn't an affair.. although the 'excitement' and the 'newness' of other women can lead to affairs.. sometimes that's where it all started.. in SC.

 

Good luck with all that mess.. and don't sweat it.. if there was more than just dining.. it was only a piece of a**.

[bish]

To each his own, but I have only been to a strip club once when I wasn't dating anyone. It was a bachelor party and really felt that it was disrepectful to the future bride, although she was getting her rocks off at a male strip club, so its their choice.

 

All I know is I don't go to them and wouldn't do it especially if I have a significant other.

 

Both my current squeeze and I promised that neither of us would go as she wouldn't want me getting all hot and bothered over some other woman and vice-versa.

 

I had one gf that came home after going to a strip club...she was horny as hell and woke me up for sex. I told her: "I'm not having sex with someone that is hot because of another man" and went back to sleep.

 

LOL, ya I know I should have just had sex for the sake of having sex, but I want someone that is hot because they are hot for me, not because they were all over other men all night long.

[djhall]

Lizzie, your picture... did you get tired of trying to get guys to look you in the eyes and just decided to go with it? Every time your picture catches my attention I jerk my eyes up like I'm afraid I'm going to get caught staring at your chest before I remember there is no head.

[Lizzie60]

Lizzie, your picture... did you get tired of trying to get guys to look you in the eyes and just decided to go with it? Every time your picture catches my attention I jerk my eyes up like I'm afraid I'm going to get caught staring at your chest before I remember there is no head.

 

Go ahead.. no one will punish you.. stare all you want.. visual creatures.. you!

[djhall]

Go ahead.. no one will punish you.. stare all you want.. visual creatures.. you!

Umm... sorry, what did you say? I was... distracted.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Stepmom,

 

I really do not see a problem at all. That is as long as your H is willing to shell out $25,000.00 for you to sit around in a G-string and give other men lapdances until 2:30 in the morning. That would be my stance. Certainly you are entitled to the same things he is within a marriage.

[AAlike]

you can get into the specifics of what happened all you want...and as most have said, it was probably some sort of "in between" between sex/bj and dining...

 

but I think the real issue here is that this is something that he KNEW would bother you as evidenced by his lying to you - if he really "had" to do this in order to entertain the clients then he really had done nothing wrong. I was in a similar situation once - obviously a less expensive club ($25K my GOD), but I was on the road on business and was out with some guys from a company that we work with and they decided to hit the strip club. I would have come off like a complete sap had I opted out (they were all married, I am not, so the GF card would have made me look like a whipped SOB), plus I was in a foreign city and didn't want to have to cab it alone. so I reluctantly went (I find strippers to be the most unerotic thing on the planet)...but the first thing that I did before going was text the GF and tell her...and she's NOT someone that would be threatened by that.

 

The fact that you had to pry it out of him makes it pretty obvious that he's the cat that swallowed the canary.

[2sunny]

after much thought i have a solution!

 

just have him call me next time he wants an erotic evening for his execs.

 

i will make a really fabulous dinner of osso bucco or lamb chops with all the vino and champagne they want. heck i'll even bring one of my sexy friends for them too - they can watch us. we can entertain them for the whole evening with just to the edge teasing.

 

let him know that i'm available for half the cost of what they originally paid.

 

it will put your mind at ease to know that technically i won't allow him to penetrate me- i'll just tease him to the edge and send him on his merry way home - since you seem to be okay with that thought.

 

maybe i'll even bring my hula hoop and game of twister just to mix it up a bit.

 

what do you think? the other plan seems justified by you and him both - so i just figured i'd save you all money next time around.

 

there will be a next time too - i guarantee it.

[JamesM]

 

there will be a next time too - i guarantee it.

 

I hesitated to say this, but it is definitely a possibility. While I won't guarantee it, the odds are high.

 

This is why I stressed that he must be accountable for his every move and especially when he is on his business trips. This will keep your feelings uppermost in his mind.

 

I know...you will say that he is experiencing too much pain to go through this again, but I can say that this pain will disappear, and the temptation will arise again. What will be his motivation not to say yes? What will keep him from crumbling when his buddies start ribbing him because he is not man enough to go to the strip club with them? And yes, this WILL happen.

 

It will be his decision at that time, and you will not be there. But I can say quite confidently that if the two of you rebuild your relationship from this, then his first thought will be of you. And this thought will not be..."how can I hide this from her?"... but instead, he will think, "how will this hurt her?" And if he is really "good," then he will be calling you to let you know that he is not going, but he will be home in a few minutes.

 

The ball is in his court. All you can do is properly "train" him as to what your feelings are and what his commitment to you should be...based on your feelings.

[Stepmom]

Oh, this is so depressing. I was feeling confident he wouldn't go back now that he sees how it has ripped me apart. Perhaps I am being too naive. As I understand it, either I split and cut my losses now or wait to see if he can stick to his promise. It would be tough to bring this upon the family since he was divorced once already with 4 kids and we just moved our elderly parents to town to care for them. But if I have to go I will go rather than deal with the pressure of this.

 

A friend who is more tolerant of this behavior than I thinks he is between a rock and a hard place-fitting in with the guys and honoring his wife whom he supposedly loves. Just can't quite feel loved when he would do something like this.

 

I went back to look at the AmEx statement. The original charge was for $25K, but there was a $10K credit issued by the same vendor (not that it matters).

 

Based on your earlier posts sounds like I need to continue probing on just what happened that night for that amount of $$. Reviewed other credit card statements today and found 4 other charges from this place dating back to '06. The frequency fits what he had told me 2-3 times per year. None of the amounts came anywhere near the night in May. There was nothing before '06 which is when he told me they started going there. Of course someone else may have paid on other occasions... I have such a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. Can't believe this is happening to me.

[2sunny]

 

A friend who is more tolerant of this behavior than I thinks he is between a rock and a hard place-fitting in with the guys and honoring his wife whom he supposedly loves. Just can't quite feel loved when he would do something like this.

 

I went back to look at the AmEx statement. The original charge was for $25K, but there was a $10K credit issued by the same vendor (not that it matters).

 

 

 

the bolded part shows that your husband is extremely weak when it comes to his boundaries. this will always be an issue if he doesn't know where his boundaries are and stand firm on them.

 

don't expect it to change though - that would take a lot of hard work on his end and for now he seems to just want to make it all go away instead. this will allow him to justify another incident in the future.

 

he disregards your position every time by being passive enough for you to feel sorry for him. that in itself is a ploy that seems to have worked well so far. it didn't keep him from participating in these kinds of evening though - over and over.

 

get real, he didn't just go along with this to save face in his business world... these kinds of evenings take a LOT of planning and knowledge of details ahead of time for everything to work out. he intentionally didn't tell you because he didn't want you to spoil his fun.

 

next time it happens, expect one of the others to pay - that way he won't have evidence you can track him with. he'll just get better at hiding it since he knows it makes you upset.

[Stepmom]

2Sunny I don't feel sorry for him in the least and do not agree with my friend's opinion. I have held him accountable 100% for his most willing participation. Yes, he has holes in his boundaries and that has come across in dealings with the ex wife over the years. He and I had that discussion the other night. I will be holding firmly to this boundary...he goes back and I move out.

 

That said, I also think I have to give him a chance to reform his ways now that he knows the depth of my misery on the subject. I still love my husband and would like us to get beyond this. Otherwise, I may as well call it a day now.

[2sunny]

SM-

 

you are being fair, reasonable and grounded.

 

keep up the good work. you will be fine if you stand firm on the boundaries you have laid down.

 

good luck to you. i know this has got to be difficult.

[annieo]

Stepmom, I went through a similar (if less expensive) experience. My h went to sc's on a number of occasions when away on business, and did not tell me about it. I found out because I found a pack of matches from a sc in Atlanta - fell out of his bag after a trip, I had NO idea. Then the truth slowly and painfully came out in drips, with my h minimizing all the way.

 

He claims that he only had table dances (not lap dances). He claims his boss (who he was traveling with) went to the VIP room for about a half hour without him (says he couldn't afford it) ??? This still doesn't make sense to me.

 

What sticks in my craw (almost 2 years later) is that I still feel there are some details that he is fudging. Like the table dance thing. Do clubs still have table dances? I called the club he went to, and was told that they only had table dances in the main part of the club (where he says he was for the whole time), but I'm just not buying it. I also question whether or not he went with his boss to the VIP room.

 

The trouble with lying (and he has done plenty over this) is that you start to question everything, what really happened, what will happen in the future. We're still together, but I can't get over this feeling that there is still this wedge of unknown between us that is making it almost impossible to get over this.

 

Anyway, sorry to go on about me. I guess I just wanted to let you know that you're not the only one. I understand that feeling of being torn between wanting to believe the person you once trusted implicitly, to preserve the relationship, and the sinking feeling that you don't really know this person at all.

 

And if anyone out there can answer my question about table dances (do they exist?), I'd be grateful for some inside information. I doubt I'll ever get the straight goods from my h, or by calling a club directly.

[djhall]

And if anyone out there can answer my question about table dances (do they exist?), I'd be grateful for some inside information. I doubt I'll ever get the straight goods from my h, or by calling a club directly.

Yes, they exist. Don't see to may people pay for them though.