Empathy for BS?

[whichwayisup]

Your were not complicit in hurting his spouse.

 

No, but she hurt herself by being with him, being hidden and having to keep it quiet. That's not a way to live, let alone be in a relationship where you have to lie and hide, make sure family and friends don't find out.

[Reggie]

Yeah, seems like we all do some of that stuff. Good to have it behind, though.

[jj33]

No, but she hurt herself by being with him, being hidden and having to keep it quiet. That's not a way to live, let alone be in a relationship where you have to lie and hide, make sure family and friends don't find out.

 

Exactly. As much as there is the issue of the betrayed spouse, with respect to the many women posting on this board who are unhappy with their relationships with the MM, they are hurting as well.

 

It is not just the BS that can be hurt. And in some cases the MMs are in pain over the situation as well. Its not all cake to be hiding and lying even if you are getting your needs met. And not all marriages are that easy to unravel.

 

Its not as black and white as it seems. I guess my point was that undoubtedly there is a lot of pain caused to betrayed spouses and I am not minimizing that. However in most cases, this is not a plot against them. There are typically many other issues involved. And most of those issues involve the WS and/or the marriage. Things happen and its a question of how people deal with it. Reading the posts is a real eye opener sometimes. So many of these men lie to the OW about their marital status etc.

 

To go back to Reggies other post even in murder there are defenses and gradations of the charge (manslaughter involuntary manslaughter) its not all murder in cold blood. The same applies here. I dont think anyone can say hand on heart that it is OK to be complicit in causing enormous pain to someone's spouse. More often the situation is more complicated than that.

[Reggie]

I'm sure it is complicated and those involved in the cheating feel some pain. But, they got to offset any pain with the pleasure and excitement they had. And, obviously, they brought this pain on themselves, voluntarily. A cost/benefit thing.

As to degrees of a crime, of course there are distinctions. That's not really relevant to the fact that society and most moral codes condemn them. That's because they injure people.

JJ, from my perspective, it's not really very complicated at all. A WS is either dissatisfied, bored or simply looking for some strange. Rather than exercising honest options(like divorce) and facing the cosequences, the WS deceives the BS and has an affair. The OP participates in the deception and they have their fun. The BS is unaware, in most cases, and is abiding by the contract, the vows. Lying to the BS is wrong. Cheating on the BS and lying when the BS expresses suspicion or concerns makes the BS think he or she is going nuts. Finding outyour spouse is cheting can hurt the BS in so many ways. Self esteem is damaged. Confidence is damaged. Anxiety , big time anxiety, ensues, Loss of weight and sleeplessness result from all the fear and anxiety.

I suspect you know this, although your relationship did not injure anyone but yourself. This is as straightforward and uncomplicated as it gets.

[GreenEyedLady]

I, too, am wondering why this question was asked...

 

The OP and BS's on the thread for the most part already had their answer before an OP even opened their mouth.

[mzdolphin]

I've been on both sides. I divorced my ex husband because he was seeing not an "OW" but lots of women. He was more of a sex addict. We tried to work on our marriage, but I realized that he was just not going to change.

 

Now I find myself as "OW". I didn't walk into the situation. My MM, was someone from my past (we dated about 15 years ago) when we were both single, I was in Pittsburgh, he was in Ohio. He recently came back in my life and presented himself as divorced. He does not live with his wife. In fact they have lived in different states (he in Virginia and her in Ohio) for almost four years now. When I found out he was lying about the divorce, I emailed is wife and broke it off with him. I thought that was the end of it.

 

He contacted me later, apologized and said he wanted a relationship with me and that his marriage was over. I was reluctant, but I thought, Hey, this guy knows I told his wife. His wife knows about me. He seems more concerned about patching things up with me than he is with the wife. So it's not in secret. He's with me more than he is with her. But I have told him he needs to move forward with the divorce that I'm not comfortable being the OW. I'm not even offering him marriage, but I can't move forward with a relationship unless he takes care of the one he's in.

[jj33]

I, too, am wondering why this question was asked...

 

The OP and BS's on the thread for the most part already had their answer before an OP even opened their mouth.

 

Because we are being "shamed" thats why - its the "e" equivalent of a scarlet letter.

[blueberry]

I can see no jusification, regardless of how long it's been around, to decieving someone you vowed to love and honor.

 

 

Does it stop you sleeping? Hell yes! Does it stop you falling in love? Hell no! I'm a big believer of just going for it - whatever the situation. We only get one shot at this life eh - its not a dress rehearsal.

 

Every situation is different. I am speaking as a BS and a OW. As a result, have empathy - and sympathy - for both sides.

 

Good luck on your quest!

[bish]

I counsel all sorts of people. Advice is easier to give than to take.

 

And, I wasn't calling Pelican a bitter shmuck. That was wholly directed towards another person or two on here that have been really, really mean, there is no confusing what kind of "advice" they give, it's just all insults.

 

 

And by insinuating that another poster here deserved to be cheated on, inadvertently slapping other BS's in the face.....that wasn't an insult?

[Federica]

Please all, can we avoid the name calling and reproachful comments? Thank you.

[Reggie]

Does it stop you sleeping? Hell yes! Does it stop you falling in love? Hell no! I'm a big believer of just going for it - whatever the situation. We only get one shot at this life eh - its not a dress rehearsal.

 

Every situation is different. I am speaking as a BS and a OW. As a result, have empathy - and sympathy - for both sides.

 

Good luck on your quest!

Yes, it would stop me from falling in love. As to the one shot, who knows? If it is just one shot, I would not want this on my conscience. That's just me. Works for me.

[blueberry]

Yes, it would stop me from falling in love. As to the one shot, who knows? If it is just one shot, I would not want this on my conscience. That's just me. Works for me.

 

 

Wish I could control my heart as well as you! I think if (physical) proximity wasn't an issue then perhaps it would be easier to walk away. Not so when they are in your face daily.

 

Maybe I'm just weak.

 

As far as the "one-shot" goes - its the only shot *I'm* aware of, and so I'm going to jump into things with both feet! Probably to my own detriment....

 

But hey-ho, when I'm on my death-bed, I'd rather regret things I *have* done as opposed to things I haven't.

 

And if that earns me an interview with the Devil himself instead of St Paul - then so be it.

[Reggie]

Depends on how one defines "have done". I guess in my case, I'll be able to think I "have done" fidelity. If I cheated, I might regret "not having done" fidelity. Just depends on what your particualr values are as to what gives you peace.

[OWoman]

I can see no jusification, regardless of how long it's been around, to decieving someone you vowed to love and honor.

 

 

Not all marriages involve making vows like that. Dressing like a meringue and spending a fortune on a huge party to impress family and friends is only one way of getting married, and no more, or less, legal than any other state-recognised form.

[OWoman]

Depends on how one defines "have done". I guess in my case, I'll be able to think I "have done" fidelity. If I cheated, I might regret "not having done" fidelity. Just depends on what your particualr values are as to what gives you peace.

 

I've done both. And though I'm currently sexually exclusive, my vote is still for non-exclusivity. Humans are not property, but free agents.

[Reggie]

Honest free agency-no problem for me. It's the lying that is wrong. No one is owned, you are right. Monogamy is a choice. Works for some, not others. I'd just have the courage and integrity to let my partner know if I was voiding the contract, so she'd be free to direct her life.

[Owl]

Not all marriages involve making vows like that. Dressing like a meringue and spending a fortune on a huge party to impress family and friends is only one way of getting married, and no more, or less, legal than any other state-recognised form.

 

Granted...but the vast majority of marriages DO make vows exactly like that.

 

Regardless of the dress-up and huge party afterwards.

 

Your vows will undoubtedly be much different...but the ones Reggie mentioned are the most common ones agreed on for sure.

[MizzBlue72]

I don't know Reggie - I'm the OW and I do feel for the BS -- in both of our cases. Sometimes you start things thinking that it will be just one time, then another, and another, and you end up like this.

 

It's not that I don't feel for the OW or my H - I do. I'm just really messed up with this right now.

[Lookingforward]

I've never been a cheater, so it's a little hard for me to put myself in her place...........so, short answer...no, none at all.

[Reggie]

I don't know Reggie - I'm the OW and I do feel for the BS -- in both of our cases. Sometimes you start things thinking that it will be just one time, then another, and another, and you end up like this.

 

It's not that I don't feel for the OW or my H - I do. I'm just really messed up with this right now.

Mizz, that must be a tough feeling to deal with. I think it would just eat at me.

I've had to take some lumps about things I've done that I know were wrong. Still felt better than living with it gnawing at me.

[bish]

I hope you aren't counselling any betrayed spouses.

 

Me neither

[OWoman]

Granted...but the vast majority of marriages DO make vows exactly like that.

 

I've not seen international figures, but more people are married in my home country in magistrates courts, than in fancy church weddings. And court weddings don't have those kind of vows.

[Owl]

I'm not familiar with your country, but even in those types of marriages in the United States, "foresaking all others" and such vows are indeed still the basic ones provided.

 

Beyond that...INTENT is a large part of the whole picture as well. Perception equally so.

 

Both parties enter into the marriage with the INTENT of "forsaking all others" and the PERCEPTION that their spouse is doing the same. Its called an implied agreement, even in legal contracts.

[RecordProducer]

You can't help who you fall in love with.

If you believe this then you'll always fall in love with the wrong people, unless you get lucky enough to run onto the right person. You are letting your heart rule your life, because you have no compassion for yourself. When you wake up angry every day, if you tell yourself that the situation is seriously damaging your health, that you don't deserve to suffer, that you must do whatever it takes to save yourself, you'll feel good about making the necessary cut. Just like a person agrees to a surgery, even though he knows it will hurt - but yhe understands that his life will be in danger otherwise.

 

I always make the same mistake too, so don't think that I am preaching you cuz I'm wiser than you are. Just let's not fool ourselves that we are helpless. We lack self-respect when we stay in painful relatioships. And often, the diminished self-respect is precisely a consequence of the painful relationship.

[Trialbyfire]

PS- I think we've been using the wrong word around here, by the way. "empathy" is when you understand what someone is going through, because you have gone through the same thing.

 

"Sympathy" is more appropriate here, in that it means basically trying to understand what a person is going through, though you have not specicially gone through it yourself.

 

Most OM/OW on here would fall into the latter, though I suppose a few of them have also been a BS before and could have "empahty"

 

And yes, as someone mentioned before very astutely, you can have sympathy all you want, but at the end of the day it probably isnt enough reason to end the A. I do have sympathy for my MM's W, I think I'd probably feel quite bad if she found out, and I think most human beings that aren't total sociopatHs will have some amount of sympathy for anothre being's suffering no matter what kind it is. But seriously, at the end of the day, most people are concerned with themselves and those closest to them. For example, all those commercials for starving kids all over the world,and cancer charity's that need money, etc etc. I can't imagine you don't find many that don't feel BAD for them, but they aren't all running to send them all their money anyway, because it is more convenient for themto keep most of their money. Do they NEED all the money they make? No, not in many cases, but they'd rather go buy a new coat than send that 200 bucks to some kid in another country, right? That doesn't make them selfish or inhuman....it makes them very human.

 

Yes, there ARE plenty of MM;s and MW's and OW's and OM's that ARE sociopathic, don't care that thy are hurting people, etc etc, but just because someone is in an A, doesn't mean they are bad people or have no sympathy.

Having sympathy is meaningless. Actions are meaningful.

 

That's why I always give advice to betrayed spouses to take back the power and control in their lives, regardless of impact on either the cheater or their OWs/OMs. No one gives a damn about you so it's time for you to give a damn about yourselves.