Should one partner "change" for another?

[JackJack]

"He has never paid a bill in 14 years. He has never made a medical/dental any other appointment. He comes home, puts his work bag down, climbs on the couch and plays computer games all evening. If I ask for help with dinner he tells me not to get used to it. He doesn't notice that there are dying bushes in the yard that need some watering and think to do it himself. I must tell him to do it. He doesn't help me get the children ready for school. He doesn't debate anything with me. I feed him, clothe him, entertain him, and then have to take care of all the day-to-day activities by myself. I'm sorry. But I'm tired of doing that. I've told him all these things. I've shared with him the things, the actions, the things I'm missing."

 

So has he always had things done for him by his parent(s)? Maybe he does nothing to help you because he feels he doesn't have to, if that makes sense. There are things you can stop doing, will things go undone, by him, possibly but that is part of growing up and taking responsibity. You said you all are in MC, so what do they say about him not helping you do anything?

[EricaL]

So has he always had things done for him by his parent(s)? Maybe he does nothing to help you because he feels he doesn't have to, if that makes sense. There are things you can stop doing, will things go undone, by him, possibly but that is part of growing up and taking responsibity. You said you all are in MC, so what do they say about him not helping you do anything?

 

Yes, he went from his mothers arms to mine

 

Over the years I've asked him to help me deal with the finances. I remember once I tried to explain to him how I paid the bills and which ones were online and try and tell him how he would log in and take care of them, just in case anything had happened to me. He told me he didn't need to cause nothing would ever happen to me. I just kind of raised my hands and had one of those, "Calgon... take me away." moments.

 

Ok, I think he may have finally made a dental appointment to fix a broken tooth (which had been broken and decaying for ten years and which caused me to stop kissing him because it smelled so terrible).

 

He says that he sees that he's been immature. He says he's known he's needed to grow up for a long time now. He says he sees that he hasn't been a partner to me and that it hasn't been fair. The MC loves that. I like it too. MC says we don't know each other anymore. We are in a parent/child relationship. Says it will be work to try and break out of the molds we are in. That it will require a lot of growth on his part... and some acceptance and reconciliation on my part.

 

So we shall see....

[Moose]

How do you reconcile that with the vows you made, how does anyone reconcile that?

That's just it....vows shouldn't be made unless you already have the mindset that your mate isn't going to be the same person you're marrying 5/10/15/50 years from now....and there will always be something, (little or big) that you're going to absolutely despise about them.....

 

For example, I was raised in a spotless house....I mean SPOTLESS!

 

It didn't matter if my mom and all 5 of us kids lived in a studio apartment....it was the BEST looking studio apartment you've ever laid eyes on.....this trained me to become a neat freak to the max....

 

Mrs. Moose can live in total chaos, and yet, find anything she's looking for....I can't STAND THAT.....however....I knew this going into the marriage just from visiting her apartment.....and of course the stories and slides from her childhood.....I've never tried to change that aspect of her, I accepted it from the get go.....

 

She knew going in that I was a heavy drinker/smoker....she was raised in a Baptist home where that's totally taboo......and yeah....she tried the, "I can change him" routine and that blew up in her face....I had to make that decision on my own....

 

This is why I said earlier that the OP's husband can be the man she wants / desires but it will take him time......

[Kasan]

look, erica, I think marriages go through what you've experiencing to varying degrees because we believed the campaign promises. I know that my husband has disappointed me with certain inaction time and again. And I know how frustrating it is to let a majority of the responsibility fall on your shoulders. However frustrating, there comes a time when you realize that you have certain strengths – as does he – that you bring to the relationship and those help y'all rub out the weaknesses. And as long as you focus on the positive, and willingly give your strengths without grudging about his weaknesses, you've got a fair shot at making this work.

 

This is the absolute truth right here! I have walked in your shoes and felt that my husband had let me down by not doing his part in our marriage.

 

I felt the same things that you did and was ready to leave, just like you.

 

I remember screaming at the top of my lungs one night that "If you loved me you would do this and you would do that" and he replied "If you loved me, you would love me."

 

I thought about that comment and realized what a hypocrite I was.....I had been so busy focusing on what he didn't do, that I couldn't see what he did do.

 

We are hearing the negative things in your marriage, but I expect there are some good things too.

 

You are fortunate, your husband seems willing to step up and to do things he didn't do before. I also wonder why you let him get away with this for all those years......

 

Think if you had had this discussion with him twelve years ago.............

 

We aren't perfect people and we screw up a lot, but never underestimate the power of a "I am sorry" and "Thank you for what you have done, I really appreciate it."

 

What would happen if you really "appreciated" what he was willing to do now--put what he didn't do in the past aside--and looked at this without the "waiting for the other shoe will drop" mindset.

 

What would you have to lose?

 

I'm not judging you, but trying to point out that your story and your marriage isn't unique--we all have gone through degrees of this in our marriages.

 

Good luck!

[quankanne]

Mrs. Moose can live in total chaos, and yet, find anything she's looking for

 

moose, if she can do that, then it's not "chaos" it's "controllably messy" :laugh:

[manugeorge]

That's just it....vows shouldn't be made unless you already have the mindset that your mate isn't going to be the same person you're marrying 5/10/15/50 years from now....and there will always be something, (little or big) that you're going to absolutely despise about them.....

 

For example, I was raised in a spotless house....I mean SPOTLESS!

 

It didn't matter if my mom and all 5 of us kids lived in a studio apartment....it was the BEST looking studio apartment you've ever laid eyes on.....this trained me to become a neat freak to the max....

 

Mrs. Moose can live in total chaos, and yet, find anything she's looking for....I can't STAND THAT.....however....I knew this going into the marriage just from visiting her apartment.....and of course the stories and slides from her childhood.....I've never tried to change that aspect of her, I accepted it from the get go.....

 

She knew going in that I was a heavy drinker/smoker....she was raised in a Baptist home where that's totally taboo......and yeah....she tried the, "I can change him" routine and that blew up in her face....I had to make that decision on my own....

 

This is why I said earlier that the OP's husband can be the man she wants / desires but it will take him time......

 

A good argument for not getting married too young. How can anyone make an accurate decision about what they want in a partner when they themselves are still trying their own identities on for size?

 

People change but tend to change less as they get older, the person you are at 35 will bear more resemblance to the person you are at 60 than the one you were at 17.

 

I'm not judging you OP, we live and learn.

[Land_Of_The_Lost]

I am in the same situation, but on opposite sides of the same coin. I could quote a lot of what you ‘complain’ about (minus the games) for myself. The bills, parent/child relationship, not religious (not your traditional Christian), expressing needs and wants for years, blah, blah, blah... Be careful of the taker when it rears its ugly head. Especially when you believe your giver has not only been unappreciated, but has been taken advantage of. I also told my wife verbatim that I have absolutely no right to expect her to change. Her happiness needs to come from within, as does mine. That balance is what we strive for.

 

I truly take to heart advice from those that have already navigated the long-term trials marriage has imposed. No marriage will ever be perfect. It is very hard when you think the person you married will never try to make themselves a better person (especially after you have invested a significant amount of effort in making yourself a better person) not only for themselves, but to have a positive impact on those in their lives. Especially your children. Even after you know the spouse has been very selfish. But maybe we could be perfectionists?

 

Please do not give up. I was at the end of my rope. I thought my wife did not care enough about me, our family or our marriage to work on self actualization. I am happy to say that I am being proved wrong. Continue to educate and work on yourself so you can guide your path and your husbands’. Do not resent being the one that has to do the heavy lifting. Work on communication that has a positive impact. Chances are good that your husband is not ‘simply happy’ about who he is, especially when it comes to meeting the needs of his family.

 

Note: Keep your distance from those ‘Assertive and mature men’ while you are in this frame of mind. They are like vultures circling a wounded animal right now.

[morelaugh]

Is there another man somewhere in the picture?

[Geishawhelk]

A good argument for not getting married too young. How can anyone make an accurate decision about what they want in a partner when they themselves are still trying their own identities on for size?

 

People change but tend to change less as they get older, the person you are at 35 will bear more resemblance to the person you are at 60 than the one you were at 17.

 

I'm not judging you OP, we live and learn.

 

Heck, I'm different to the way I was last week!!

 

I go with this!

[RecordProducer]

Erica, you're a very wise woman. I agree with you on everything you said. He can't change things like assertiveness and maturity. He can only become a good actor. Finally, you wouldn't be happy with his transformations.

 

It seems like you've already made up your mind. I don't know if you will find what you're looking for, but you shouldn't waste your time with someone who makes you miserable. Does he make you miserable or do you just crave a mature man to grab you and give you excitement, romance and pleasure? These thrills don't last long. We wouldn't want you to find regret your decision some day.

 

Do you have children?

[luvstarved]

My response to what I have read in this thread is that you are married to a good earnest man who does not really know how to act. I married the same kind of guy, went from Mom to me, etc and I TOTALLY KNOW a lot of the frustrations with being left to do it all, etc.

 

I also know how exciting assertive mature men can be. So do other women. The exciting assertive mature men I have been involved with have been willing (to various degrees) targets of other women's interest. I did not care for that either!!

 

Your H sounds less assertive than mine, but still...you asked, why is your happiness more important than his? Simple: he loves you more than you love him. He just does not know how to show it in a way that works for you.

 

I don't see any right or wrong here. I think it is sweet as hell that he wants to try so hard, but it also is apparent that he is no longer what you want. Not particular behaviors, but the very core it seems of who he is is something you just don't want any more.

 

The only problem with that from your side is getting out. The problem from his side is that it is going to rip his heart out. But in the end, I think we would all have to admit to preferring to lose the one we love rather than be with them knowing they do not love us in return...

 

I do think change is possible and I do think that wanting to do it to please your presumably lifetime mate is not a horrible reason...in fact I think some amount of sacrifice, modification, tolerance, etc is necessary...in any case, often we wish ourselves to be different...but there is a limit to what one can change...

 

AND there is a difference between changing objectively annoying behaviors like constantly interrupting or leaving dirty underwear on the kitchen floor, etc and "not being assertive enough". I think a value judgment there is uncalled for...and admit I was a little rankled by your comment that he should be more assertive, etc to "better himself". Assertive is not necessarily "better", just "what you want".

 

Bottom line is, it sounds to me like you have a good guy that maybe you don't fully appreciate and maybe do not have the degree of love for that would be required to see the whole process through. I am not talking about not helping with household stuff, that can be changed...if you are able to let go of past resentments about it. You've also repeated the sentiment that you don't think he should change because he is great, just not what you want...most likely, you should go with that and break up so that both of you can have an opportunity to love and be loved in a way that feels "right".

[DragonSlayer]

"I've met and socialized with them. I love it. Assertive and mature men excite me."

 

Hmm...if you've met a man who makes you excited, your H will never please you.

 

If you simply have realized that he hasn't changed, or hasn't changed the way you would have liked, I can tell you from experience that nothing that he will do will be good enough for you. He can water the bushes, do the dishes, and get off the couch...but deep down in his core, that guy you married is going to be that guy forever...and you'll still realize that he's not what you want, or not what you hoped you could turn him into.

 

To me, it sounds like you've already made your decision. You're just looking for confirmation of two things you already know... That it's not fair to change for another person, and that if one does, that person will resent the other for not being genuine and true to themselves.

 

Keep one thing in mind...you have enabled your husbands lax behavior to some extent...at the very least, you "accepted it" many years ago.

 

If there is another guy who excites you, there is no way your immature laid back passive husband is going to turn into that guy.