Divorce--To.. Or not to...

[Doe-John]

Where do I begin...

 

We have been married for 15 years. I was 18. We have 3 kids--15, 13 & 6.

 

When we first were married and for many years there after, we were broke. A small level of success has only come in the last 3 years or so.

 

About 2 years ago, I started taking better care of myself and lost about 45lbs. Now I get looks from women that I would like to get looks from. For a very long time now, I have been wondering what I missed. I never had the chance to play the field. Hell, I didn't even know what I liked when we got married. I'm sure some of my curiosity is related to my increased confidence and such.

 

For the record--there is NO other woman in my life and I have no one in mind.

 

About a year ago, I told her that I was confused and didn't know if I wanted to be married any longer. We went to counseling--individually. Her to grow as an individual and me to figure out if marriage is what I want. I decided to continue the marriage. We were going to go to counseling together, but never did.

 

I started having concerns about our marriage again. Not so much related to curiosity any longer, but more a long the lines of--do I love her? The fact is, I don't have the feelings I used to. I mean--I love her. She is SO good to me (from a mothering sense). She takes really good care of me and puts up with a lot of my crap. I just don't have any sense of emotion towards her. Often times when we're together, there are so many other things I would rather be doing. And in the event she get's bitchy--I begin feeling resentful because I would rather be doing other things anyhow and now I feel like I have wasted a bunch of time.

 

It's selfish. I know. But that takes me back to the love thing. If I truly loved her, would I rather be doing other things? It's not like I don't like to hang out with her... I just don't really care for the---idk... emotional time and stuff.

 

There are also a lot of qualities that now that I'm older I know I would like a woman to have--of which... she does not. For example...

 

-I would like a woman that was confident. One who believed in herself as a person and as a woman.

 

-I would like a woman who was able to flow between being an introvert and extrovert--leaning more towards the extrovert. --Fun.. outgoing.. adventurous.. etc.

 

-I would like a woman that understands men--and that I'm a man--and not judge me for "guy thoughts"--I mean seriously... guys look at other women... guys fantasize... guys like to be alone sometimes... sometimes we need our space... sometimes we need to be close... sometimes we need you to just shut up and listen... and sometimes we need a kick in the ass. This I think goes back to being confident and knowing how to handle each of the above, not take things personally.

 

-I would like a woman that knows how to use herself to manipulate me. That probably sounds weird, but after 15 years, you would think one would know how to get what they want--other than demanding it--and would use that to their advantage.

 

-I would like a woman that is not so judgmental people or the things they say.

 

-I would like a woman that is a positive and forward thinker.

 

-I would like a woman that was really smart and challanged me.

 

-I would like a woman that I respected.

 

-I would like a woman that was my best friend in the whole world--that I could tell anything to.

 

Those last two things... Those are where I feel lost and "out of love".

 

I told her today that I really don't think this is going to work. I explained my feelings the best that I could. How I loved her, but didn't have the emotional feelings that I think I should have. Naturally--she was devastated. She had no idea.

 

You see, about two months ago, I made a conscious and foolish decision to roll the dice and hope for the best. We started looking at houses. I put my feelings to the side and said to my self, whatever happens--happens. I'm very much a believer of "if it's meant to be... it will be". So we're looking for houses... I have blinders on... ignoring the things I don't like about her or feel that I'm missing---thinking that the new house will fix everything. Then in one instant... sitting at dinner with our realtor... she was being bitchy and it hit me... these are all the things that I don't like about this woman and I'm an idiot for thinking anything was going to change. So right then and there, I decided I'm not looking at another house--and started heavily considering the status of my heart and our marriage.

 

Add to this that I am one signature away from closing on a nice--first real estate deal (business/not personal)--and I'm like crap... if this doesn't work out... (Eddie Murphy Raw comes to mind--HALF!). So this may sound crazy, but I'm lost. I'm stalling this real estate deal because of my marriage and yet, I don't want to throw away my marriage over a real estate deal.

 

The way I see it there are a few possibilities.

 

a) I buy the real estate and we live happily ever after

b) I buy the real estate and we divorce and I'm screwed.

c) I pass on the real estate and divorced or married--I resent her for it.

 

Understand that it's not like I'm just saying --hey I have some extra cash, let's buy a building. This is an amazing opportunity for the future of my company and overall financial well being.

 

Wow I have said a lot... I guess the ultimate question is--what do I do? Do I move on because I don't have the feelings I should? Do I do the real estate deal and hope for the best? Or Do I skip the real estate deal and hope for the best?

 

I know she is really hurting right now and I feel very bad for that. I just really don't want to be 50 something--or any age for that matter and wish I would have moved on. I don't think it's fair to either one of us. At the same time, I don't want to look back on this and say--I could/should have tried harder.

 

And by the way... I'm leaving out all the facts that you already know like---I love my kids, don't want them to hurt, etc., etc. All the obvious "typical" family matters--that's here too.

 

Thank you to one and all in advance!

[Geishawhelk]

option C.

 

Right now, you'd be insane to gamble on any other option.

[Mr. Lucky]

I mean--I love her. She is SO good to me (from a mothering sense). She takes really good care of me and puts up with a lot of my crap.

You're hesitant to pull the trigger on a real estate deal because the woman that has taken care of you and your 3 children for 15 years might end up with "half"?

 

I wish there was some way to have you objectively re-read what you've posted, because it reeks of a cold and calculated self-centeredness that is almost painful to perceive. While I'm sure your wife isn't perfect, no where in your laundry list of wants is the desire on your part as a partner in a marriage to roll up your sleeves and improve your relationship. Your desire to have a woman that is "not so judgmental of people" is ironic in that you seem to have judged your wife in every way - and found her wanting. Sorry for the tough love but this is one of those posts that I really wish your wife was around to tell her side of the story. I'll bet it would be interesting reading for you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Geishawhelk]

Agreed. On second thoughts, maybe option b IS better.....!

[lonelyandfrustrated]

I really hope that you get that woman who 'knows how to manipulate' you. Bet she gets more than half, too.

 

You need to check back into your marriage, dude. Just because you think you're all that now, it doesn't mean you've earned the right to ditch your wife. Get over yourself and look at what you're doing!

[carhill]

No kids here, but going through the process of buying another house (I have a couple already) for my wife has brought us together more as a team, something which has been lacking in recent years. No epiphanies, but it's nice to appreciate her strengths. I think that's what I'm seeing lacking in the OP's posts, the appreciation and validation of his W's positive attributes.

 

OP, it sounds like you have multiple RE deals going, both for a new house for the family and a commercial/investment property. What did you intend to do with your old house?

 

I ask because it might be advisable, if you are currently ambivalent about your M, to get some legal advice before proceeding. I'd also suggest trying MC, since IC is about you and doesn't focus on the marriage. MC clarified a lot of things for me

[jmargel]

From the outside do you know what I think? I think you are immature, selfish and have no respect for your wife. I think that you expect things to come to you and to bail out when things get rough.

 

I think that you haven't put the work into the marriage and just coasted along for the past 15 years. You expect to put no work into the marriage and have a perfect wife. Your wife has become the product of YOUR doing.

 

Re-read your initial post and count the number of times you said 'I'. That should explain alot. You even dissed marriage counseling. So until you really get yourself back into IC and then MC you do NOT have the right to complain like you have.

 

Honestly.. Quit being such a whiny bitch and be a man. You can make this relationship great, instead you want to throw it away for something unknown. You want to throw it away even though you didn't put much work into it. I'm surprised your wife didn't want to end this marriage a long time ago.

[JamesM]

Ditto on the above comments.

 

Also, one thing I have learned as I have gotten older is....for every good thing about my wife, there is a bad thing. But if I found someone else who does not have her bad qualities, then this other woman will probably not have her good qualities either.

 

What I hear is that you were married quite young, and now you want out. I also hear that while you want a whole laundry list of qualities in a woman, you do not indicate whether you are qualified for such a woman.

 

Most of us choose someone who has differing qualities from us. We do this so that we can be complemented...as in the two of us can work better as a team. So when you want a more outgoing individual, you are ignoring the qualities that she has which may actually balance your personality.

 

Having said all that, I think you had better get your mind straightened out before you invest in any house or property.

 

BTW, what is her opinion of YOU?

 

(And I am guessing at the answer....she loves you unconditionally.)

[Nomad1]

Not sure what kind of response you are expecting! You have drawn a selection criteria of a woman, which clearly excludes your wife.

 

At the forefront of your mind are what you construe as negative qualities of your wife. If this is the way you think about her, do her a favour and let her read what you wrote. I doubt she would want to have anything with you after that.

 

As to finances, you will be screwed anyway, with your youngest being barely 6 years old, you will be paying for your children for the next 12 yrs.

 

You know you have already made up your mind. Go ahead and do it!

[zazue]

I'm hearing, "I have another woman I want in mind", but I want all the money and assets I can get from my "old model", before I take off for the strange.

Good luck!

[dead-dyke]

I generally despise the women that come on here and state stuff like this. They'll be happy to know they havn't got the market cornered on this one.

[reddog63]

OP - Take everyones response, including my own with a grain of salt as they say.

 

I can relate to your situation. I am going down a similar road. Many posters are probably on the dumpee side of the equation so that is the type of response you are likely to get.

 

I have been on these boards for years and still do not have all the answers. And I do not dismiss the responses that say you are selfish etc. I do not know.

 

What I do think is that people can drift apart, they can change over time, their needs can change...........and if you dare to go against norm and decide to leave a marriage for such reasons, you will get these type responses.

 

I have not seen any yet, but you will get some responses that say.......life is too short, etc., go for it. I also do not know for sure if they are right. It is very confusing to me.

 

But when you start feeling like your lacking a connection in your marriage, there is obviously something wrong. People with tell you what you should do, but utimately you ahve to figure it out.

 

I wish I did not have the feelings of discontentment in my marriage. It would be so much easier to stay. But......at least in my case (1 yr separted and near decision time to stay or go)........I can not shake the feeling, right or wrong.

 

The only real advise I can give is to say you should separate and do not rush back. Think long and hard and then make the decision.

[dead-dyke]

OP - Take everyones response, including my own with a grain of salt as they say.

 

I can relate to your situation. I am going down a similar road. Many posters are probably on the dumpee side of the equation so that is the type of response you are likely to get.

 

 

Very valid point.

[Mr. Lucky]

I can relate to your situation. I am going down a similar road. Many posters are probably on the dumpee side of the equation so that is the type of response you are likely to get.

Actually, I think there's a pretty even mix of those that left and those that were left. Unlike the Infidelity Forum, there is usually balanced feedback here.

 

I just re-read the OP's post and don't find a single mention of what he's done to try, within the framework of his marriage, to address his concerns. Did I miss something?

 

Mr. Lucky

[n9688m]

Where do I begin...

 

We have been married for 15 years. I was 18. We have 3 kids--15, 13 & 6.

 

You seem more concerned with your real estate deal than with your kids.

 

Sounds to me you are lucky to have the wife that you do have.

 

Go ahead - find a trophy wife. Then look back and see if it really made you happy.

 

I suspect you will only appreciate what you have after you have thrown it all away.

[Doe-John]

Wow, this is some good stuff.

 

First, please keep in mind this was written at 4:00 am shortly after my wife and I spoke. With that said, I probably wasn't very careful with my choice of words, and was clearly rambling.

 

Second, I truly appreciate all the feedback. Regardless of whether or not it is what I want to hear. I'm okay with "tough love". That's why I'm seeking advice--from people I don't know for that matter. I'm not looking for someone to tell me what I want to hear.

 

Now... the post may have sounded self centered. I don't mean to come across that way. I truly care about other people--a lot--including my wife. Keep in mind I have had these very mixed emotions for a long time. So yes, I suppose now it is coming down to business.

 

I was thinking about this more last night--of course. On one side, as I said, I don't want to be 50 and alone or unhappily married and wishing I would have got out sooner. On the other side, I don't want to be 50, looking back and saying... you could/should have tried harder.

 

I did in fact mention that we went to counseling--individually. We have worked on things together. She knew of my discontent and concerns over a year ago. I was very open and honest with her.

 

This is not about money. I am very grateful for what I have. We came from nothing... When we first got married, I couldn't afford to give my wife $1.20 for toll money to go see her parents. I will never forget those times and will never think I'm above them or anyone else.

 

The aspect of the real estate deal has more or less put me in a sH^t or get off the pot mindset. Either make it work--or end it. What is killing me is the unknown. I am scared of saying--'you know what... i'll do it. I'll give it one more--REAL HARD shot.' --to only have half of MORE taken from me 2 years from now. Grant it... that's a little pessimistic outlook. I would hope that would not happen. I don't want it to be that way. At the same time, I really feel like I am holding back from my true abilities-as it relates to business-because of this unknown. Does that make sense? It's not the money controlling the emotions... it's the emotions controlling the money. If she said --lets do a post nup, I want nothing that you acquire from this point out-- I would without hesitation put 100% into trying my absolute best to make this work---FREE of all fear. But as it stands, it's kind of like --'well... i really don't know where this is going to go, so i'm going to hang back and chill for a bit to see'-- That 'bit'--has come to an end. I need to decide. It's not fair to me and it's not fair to her.

 

I really do love her. I just feel that there are things missing in our relationship that we will likely NEVER have--like friendship--. We dated for 4 months before getting married. That's not enough time to even get to know someone, much less become friends. Let's be honest... It's amazing and commendable that we made it this long.

 

I did NOT say anything about wanting a "trophy wife" --dumb ass. It's about connection and care and respect and love. While my wife doesn't have the body of a porn star... I'm content with her. Don't get me wrong... I would like her to try harder to lose weight and take care of herself, but that has little to nothing to do with my concerns. In fact, she has become quite interesting in bed over the last year or so. So I am very happy in that respect.

 

Look--I know no one is perfect. I know every relationship will have it's ups and downs. I'm not naive or stupid. I know every human has their faults. Fact of the matter is--I have never had the opportunity to experience any of those one way or another.

 

Frankly, the unknown scares me. It is scary not knowing that giving her up might just be the stupidest thing ever and that maybe I will end up alone for the rest of my life.Okay.. I'm going to stop now. Again, I appreciate the feedback and encourage more. I really need some heartfelt guidance here. I accept that some of you will take the opportunity to bash me, which is fine... but I really prefer to focus on some helpful suggestions and advice...

[Mr. Lucky]

i'll do it. I'll give it one more--REAL HARD shot.' --to only have half of MORE taken from me 2 years from now.

Again, do you see how that sounds? She's been your partner for 15+ years, borne and raised your children, maintained hearth and home. If you split, why wouldn't she deserve half? Your children are "assets" also, won't your deserve "half" of them after a divorce? Regardless, the train has probably already left the station - post divorce, your support obligations will be more than 50% of your income and assets.

I really need some heartfelt guidance here. I accept that some of you will take the opportunity to bash me, which is fine... but I really prefer to focus on some helpful suggestions and advice...

I don't thinks there's an effort to bash you here. Perhaps it's more of a desire to encourage you to consider a different perspective. In my humble opinion, your current train of thought does not serve your long-term interests well...

 

Mr. Lucky

[lonelyandfrustrated]

I suggest you at least do MC before you decide to stay or go.

 

I also suggest you remove money from your decision-making process. Leave the money stuff to the lawyers at the negotiation table during the divorce. The fact that you don't want to bring in more assets because you don't want your wife to have them makes you look like an arse. Listen, even if you put off the transaction until after the divorce, in most states you'd have to put it off for three months to a year...will the property even be available then? And would you even have the financing for it, after the little wife takes HALF now?

 

And think about this: after three kids, money struggles, and 15 years of marriage, "content" is a very good thing to be. You have blessings and you can't even see them!

[n9688m]

post divorce, your support obligations will be more than 50% of your income and assets.

 

How do you figure that?

[Mr. Lucky]

How do you figure that?

My own experience and that of others posted here. I'm assuming the OP's wife is a SAHM, he's been married for 15 years and he has 3 kids. There are also many financial obligations that hit you with your kids - vacations, orthodontist, cars, etc. - outside of your divorce decree...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Doe-John]

Well, I am happy to report that my wife and I sat down yesterday evening (at a park with some chinese) and talked things over. I explained that I was not willing to end this with out knowing in my heart that I gave it 100%. I expressed my concern related to the real estate deal and she agreed to have an agreement drawn up to relinquish her rights to that.

 

That said--I am very happy with the way this worked out and I am eager to begin MC. IF for some reason this does not work out... At 50, I can at least say I gave it my best shot!

 

Thanks all!!

[2sunny]

Well, I am happy to report that my wife and I sat down yesterday evening (at a park with some chinese) and talked things over. I explained that I was not willing to end this with out knowing in my heart that I gave it 100%. I expressed my concern related to the real estate deal and she agreed to have an agreement drawn up to relinquish her rights to that.

 

That said--I am very happy with the way this worked out and I am eager to begin MC. IF for some reason this does not work out... At 50, I can at least say I gave it my best shot!

 

Thanks all!!

 

at 50? aren't you 33 years old? does that mean that you plan to stay for a certain period of time and then ditch her if it's not good? knowing that she relinquished her rights to what was earned TOGETHER...

 

does that make you feel better? what are planning to do in the meantime between now and 50? counseling to work on your marriage would be ideal since your perspective is to only consider what you want and need.

 

this is supposed to be a partnership of love, commitment and respect. i see her doing her side but you are not holding up your half.

 

what can YOU do to change your perspective of her and your marriage? if you don't intend to change your attitude towards her and the marriage - then do her a favor now and divorce - because she deserves someone who can appreciate her way more than your attitude shows.

[lonelyandfrustrated]

Well, I am happy to report that my wife and I sat down yesterday evening (at a park with some chinese) and talked things over. I explained that I was not willing to end this with out knowing in my heart that I gave it 100%. I expressed my concern related to the real estate deal and she agreed to have an agreement drawn up to relinquish her rights to that.

 

That said--I am very happy with the way this worked out and I am eager to begin MC. IF for some reason this does not work out... At 50, I can at least say I gave it my best shot!

 

Thanks all!!

 

Good luck getting that agreement. If your wife has a thought in her head, I hope she's thinking of consulting an attorney on that matter.

[Siciliana]

From someone who did all the dumping...

 

I wonder why you consider giving your wife and kids half of what she helped you earn is not fair? And, why would you hold yourself out on something that is going to give both of you MORE? Your kids deserve it. It's the least you can do.

 

And, trust me, once you do your wife the favor of letting her go, I bet she will become the woman you always wanted her to be because she will be done being your Mom and able to focus on herself, since right now she is caught up in trying to figure out why she can't make you happy the way she needs to make you happy to make herself feel like you love her.

[Siciliana]

Well, I am happy to report that my wife and I sat down yesterday evening (at a park with some chinese) and talked things over. I explained that I was not willing to end this with out knowing in my heart that I gave it 100%. I expressed my concern related to the real estate deal and she agreed to have an agreement drawn up to relinquish her rights to that.

 

That said--I am very happy with the way this worked out and I am eager to begin MC. IF for some reason this does not work out... At 50, I can at least say I gave it my best shot!

 

Thanks all!!

 

I can't believe your wife would accept that.... she needs to realize that a man who is only willing to go to MC if she agrees not to want half of what she helped him earn.

 

I hope MC makes her realize how much you suck.