Capital Punishment

[shadowplay]

Reread what I wrote. You're failing to understand my point. Dead is dead. Unless you believe in spirits coming back to haunt you, a dead serial killer can't come back to kill, no matter how much the entertainment industry wants you to believe it.

 

What aspect of my post are you referring to?

[jerbear]

20% of 360 is 72...

 

That is 72 dead innocent people that we are responsible for as a society... I am not very comfortable with numbers like that...

 

If you factor in all that is needed to legally execute someone it is not really much of a cost-savings compared to life in prison.

 

 

The 72 out of 360 is based on historical numbers. New Jersey has had capital punishment since day 1 of the Colonial days.

 

You also have to note that New Jersey is an heavy religiously populated state whom oppose capital punishment. So it is skewed. I also look at who the appointed members are and who "showed" up to the meetings. The majority of the members are in groups which support the removal of Capital Punishment.

 

I'm all for capital punishment even if religion or costs are involved. Even in the report mentioned (along with some others) mention that it costs more to execute but costs could not be 100% determined.

 

Religion: eye for an eye (let God decide and help this poor soul meet their maker faster)

 

Religion: should a person leave the world a better place before they arrived? I think yes and a convicted murderer did not.

 

Religion: Is it an recruiting drive? Does some death row inmates suddenly find religion?

 

Finance: life = life regardless.

Finance: The cost of housing, feeding, health care, corrections staff, utilities, misc costs are variable and can easily exceed $100k per year. Just pay the $1 M to execute and it is a 10 year ROI. Life sentences can last longer than 10 years.

[audrey_1]

Take all of the most hardened criminals and ship them to a remote island, surrounded by electrical wiring or a moat with hungry reptiles. This island would be solely inhabited by criminals. Supply with only minimal items, to encourage survival, but not support it.

 

Then if they die, it's their own fault, and there's no tax money at stake.

[lovelorcet]

"Was some scary sh!ot" is more precise.

 

The New Testament, and therefore the entire Bible clearly is against capital punishment.

 

Take, for instant, the account of the harlot caught red handed about to be killed by the community.....Jesus told them, "He who has no sin may cast the first stone"......

 

We need to remember that the New Testament is the fullfillment of the Old....

 

Yes, we need law and order, so lock murderers away for life and chain them to treadmills that generates electricity 16 hours a day....

 

YEAH!!!! Moose and I agree on something!!!

 

I do not think any human has the right to kill another human, and as an atheist I don't need the bible to tell me that.

[Trialbyfire]

What aspect of my post are you referring to?

Where Capital Punishment isn't a deterrent.

 

How is it not a deterrent when you're dead and gone? It's called consequences to actions.

[Trialbyfire]

Take all of the most hardened criminals and ship them to a remote island, surrounded by electrical wiring or a moat with hungry reptiles. This island would be solely inhabited by criminals. Supply with only minimal items, to encourage survival, but not support it.

 

Then if they die, it's their own fault, and there's no tax money at stake.

DNA technology at its finest. Jurassic Park!

[shadowplay]

Where Capital Punishment isn't a deterrent.

 

How is it not a deterrent when you're dead and gone? It's called consequences to actions.

 

It's not a deterrent for other criminals.

[audrey_1]

DNA technology at its finest. Jurassic Park!

 

Absolutely, but with no tourism or scientists to care.

 

Society could wash their hands of them and leave them to their own devices and wits, assuming they have any.

 

Good luck to them.

[Trialbyfire]

It's not a deterrent for other criminals.

Whether it stops the killing upfront or stops future killings and potential for escape, it still stops something. I believe in personal responsibility be it financial or for heinous crimes taken. Everyone has a choice in their lives. You take the action, you live or die with the consequences.

Absolutely, but with no tourism or scientists to care.

 

Society could wash their hands of them and leave them to their own devices and wits, assuming they have any.

 

Good luck to them.

But if lawmakers continue to drop offenders off on the island, there will be an escape route, if felons overpower the penal system employees. The only way to prevent that, is to parachute them in. How do you control where the parachute lands? Why not just drop them with no parachute?

[The Collector]

Take all of the most hardened criminals and ship them to a remote island, surrounded by electrical wiring or a moat with hungry reptiles. This island would be solely inhabited by criminals. Supply with only minimal items, to encourage survival, but not support it.

 

Then if they die, it's their own fault, and there's no tax money at stake.

Yeah the UK tried that with Australia, and look what happened. We don't need another Midnight Oil.

[Geishawhelk]

As a British citizen, I am completely and totally against the Death penalty.

 

Someone said that with the advance of surveillance cameras and the like, the chances of getting away with a crime is smaller and smaller.

This is incorrect.

The UK has more CCTV cameras per capita than anywhere else in the world....

However, it has been proven time and time again that surveillance cameras have little effect in cutting down crime. The problem is, the criminals have to be caught in the act. And capturing their antics on surveillance cameras is one thing. Apprehending them on the scene is quite another. And the kind of technology that can spot a mosquito's testicles at one mile high is simply not available for your average suburban surveillance system. So identification is no simple matter....

 

Furthermore, this so-called 'infallible' DNA is not as accurate as it should be. DNA is actually quite difficult to gather. We've had too many CSI programmes on TV convincing us otherwise.... but believe me, such investigations can take months, even years. Forget the cosy one-hour episode on TV....

Most evidence is down to fingerprints, because they're totally unique, and that evidence is absolutely infallible.... providing of course, the criminal has been obliging enough to leave them at the scene!

 

Thieves, burglars and rapists tend to re-offend. But usually, these offences don't carry the death penalty....Most murders in the UK are a crime of Passion. Leaving aside serial killers, these murders are often of someone the killer knows well, so it is highly unlikely they would re-offend....

So who 'deserves' to die, more? The man who in a fit of rage, kills his fiancee because he catches her with another man, or the jobless parasite who constantly breaks into cars, vandalises them, steals from houses, takes drugs and is generally a continuous drain of resources and a blight on society...?

 

Serial killers tend to have a psychological problem. In fact, an earlier poster mentioned the cost of psychiatric treatment.... If such treatment is necessary, and the person has a mental problem, should they not be considered to have been out of their mind, during the crime? Is this a valid reason to execute them? Someone who is mentally ill?

On that premise, should we then euthanise everyone who has a severe mental disorder, 'just in case'....?

 

We have no right whatsoever, as a society, to wreak revenge on another human being by depriving them of their life.

Simply because it seems to be passed down by the judicial system, and done in a clinical and calculated manner, it doesn't make it any more right.

It's killing.

It's killing for revenge dressed as 'Justice'. But if the verdict was wrong, and the person was innocent, who do we then charge with their murder?

[audrey_1]

But if lawmakers continue to drop offenders off on the island, there will be an escape route, if felons overpower the penal system employees. The only way to prevent that, is to parachute them in. How do you control where the parachute lands? Why not just drop them with no parachute?

 

Ha! I considered this.

 

Perhaps the most rudimentary of parachutes, or drop them into the flesh-eating, reptile-filled moat and have them swim for it.

 

Then, too bad if they're not fast enough to get away, it's the reptiles who were just behaving naturally.

 

Conscience clear!

[Trialbyfire]

Ha! I considered this.

 

Perhaps the most rudimentary of parachutes, or drop them into the flesh-eating, reptile-filled moat and have them swim for it.

 

Then, too bad if they're not fast enough to get away, it's the reptiles who were just behaving naturally.

 

Conscience clear!

That would be a trial by reptile!

[audrey_1]

Yeah the UK tried that with Australia, and look what happened. We don't need another Midnight Oil.

 

But Australia is a large continent, and it had other inhabitants.

 

This would be a much smaller, uninhabited island, to mimic conditions of a jail, except "inmates" would be responsible for their own survival. It would be controlled to a degree, except there would be no tax base providing them with food, TV, etc.

 

They'd be responsible for growing their own food and providing themselves with entertainment.

 

For kicks, maybe they'd just molest and murder each other.

[a4a]

But Australia is a large continent, and it had other inhabitants.

 

This would be a much smaller, uninhabited island, to mimic conditions of a jail, except "inmates" would be responsible for their own survival. It would be controlled to a degree, except there would be no tax base providing them with food, TV, etc.

 

They'd be responsible for growing their own food and providing themselves with entertainment.

 

For kicks, maybe they'd just molest and murder each other.

 

kinda like "escape from new york" ?

[audrey_1]

kinda like "escape from new york" ?

 

Hmm.

 

More like an incredibly primitive, isolated Alcatraz.

[jerbear]

We don't need another Midnight Oil.

 

Australia got some locomotion and got lucky with Kylie Minogue.

[Geishawhelk]

But Australia is a large continent, and it had other inhabitants.

 

This would be a much smaller, uninhabited island, to mimic conditions of a jail, except "inmates" would be responsible for their own survival. It would be controlled to a degree, except there would be no tax base providing them with food, TV, etc.

 

They'd be responsible for growing their own food and providing themselves with entertainment.

 

For kicks, maybe they'd just molest and murder each other.

 

They already do that in ordinary prisons, you know...

There are such things as prison ships..... way out in the atlantic, with nowhere to go......

[Al_Bundy]

Do you believe in Capital Punishment? Are there any Biblical justifications for Capital Punishment?

 

yes, if you murder someone, you no longer need to walk this earth with the rest of mankind. And we don't, as taxpayers, need to feed and cloth you for the rest of your life because you took someone's life.

 

As far as biblical justifications, I don't care what they are.

[Geishawhelk]

The big word there, is 'if'... and there are too many innocents walking the green mile and being condemned for something they didn't do. Expendable?

 

And it's ok to feed and clothe the rapists, paedophiles, bank robbers, muggers and joyriders, is it?

Because they far outnumber the convicted murderers. I don't hear you complaining about feeding and clothing them.....Although I'm sure you do object.... so what shall we do with them, then?

[popey]

I studied christianity a little bit when i was younger. I am not a spiritual person any longer, but still quite a fan of many of the famous Jesus quotes. Among my favs is this, which for me is quite clear on the topic, "let he is is w/o sin cast the first stone"

[Eve]

I am not a spiritual person any longer, but still quite a fan of many of the famous Jesus quotes. Among my favs is this, which for me is quite clear on the topic, "let he is is w/o sin cast the first stone"

 

Thank you Popey and all else who have posted so honestly. I do have a problem with the very thought of Capital Punishment but maybe this is a cross cultural thing because I am British and we are SO liberal here? Thing is, it is not working very well here and my Hubby and eldest daughter are staunch supportrs of Capital Punishment. I remain very squiggy soft and believe that people should be helped, even if this means that they should be detained for the rest of their lives. I am unsure if I am mixing up my direction of thought with my ultimate distrust of The Police, The Justice System and governmental designs though, which runs very deep within me (?)

 

In total, I have seen too many messed up people change to let go of the belief that we can in some way stilll help them. This takes a lot of time though and I am not sure that we should limit a persons time to change? .. I do believe that we should have a system whereby the distinction should not be that they have committed a crime against the state but rather that they have committed a crime 'against the person'. Remorse is what is needed in order to facilitate change methinks. I just believe that there are far too many confounding factors to let go of hope; such as rectifying issues such as proper housing and helping people to get good jobs and continue with their education as they work. This is a distinction which needs to be distinguished differently to how careers are presently perceived. I for one would be happy for someone who will never be able to work in 'star' terms to receive their social security for visiting someone who is ill in hospital. I think that we have been bought by the media to hero worship people rather than look at the realities of human behaviours and dysfunction and lack compassion for those who cannot ever achieve anything beyond small interactions.

 

For me, I have seen tremendous changes come about from very broken people and these changes have been about recognising that sometimes people really are ****ed up and nasty and vile and their crimes are a consequence of this.. but they can change. Still, I think of myself as a hypocrite because I have not lost someone to a horrendous crime...

 

No, I think that I still dont believe in the death penalty. Faith wise, Jesus died for us knowing that we were still sinners..

[Trialbyfire]

My apologies for the thread highjack but this is one of my biggest beefs with Christianity. Why is it acceptable to quote from the Old Testament when it's convenient and then when it's not, invalidate it, considering the New Testament as the sole point of Biblical validation?

 

As for the topic itself, living in a semi-socialistic, liberal country hasn't affected my pro-Capital Punishment views. Even my parents are appalled at my views.

[Eve]

My apologies for the thread highjack but this is one of my biggest beefs with Christianity. Why is it acceptable to quote from the Old Testament when it's convenient and then when it's not, invalidate it, considering the New Testament as the sole point of Biblical validation?

 

I hope you get an answer which is edifying. Personally I dont understand why people look to others to answer such questions... I see that as an ego thing - I mean, surely one should look to God Himself? I would not have EVER been satisfied without a response from God Himself. In my view, it seems as though The Old Testement was about the leadership of a people - the Israelites, but the New Testement is about the consecration of the heart and so different people are included - those even who were seen as 'unclean' beforehand. These are those who recognise Christ, whoever they are, wherever they are at.

 

I understand your thread hijack completely and hope you feed back what you have learned also..

[Rooster_DAR]

Well those of you who are bible fans, the bible justifies the murder of and adulteress and her lover, so apparently bible does condone murder to some degree.

 

 

I'm all for the death penalty, but not in all cases.

 

Cheers!