Quinch Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I find that a lot of criminals are only remorseful after they have been caught and locked up. Funny how they never regret the crime before they commit it. Link to post Share on other sites
Quinch Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I believe that killing is justified in some circumstances like a war that needs to be fought (WWII for example). In those cases, it is actually saving lives. So if I go out and kill someone now I can justify it by saying they were going to kill 100 people tomorrow? Link to post Share on other sites
shadowplay Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 So if I go out and kill someone now I can justify it by saying they were going to kill 100 people tomorrow? No, in that case you should alert the authorities so they lock the person up. Killing to avoid more killing is only justified when imprisonment isn't an option (like in war). Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 The death penalty is wrong because it serves no purpose (as life-long imprisonment would have the same effect) and it sets a bad example. It sends the message that killing is OK if one judges that the person deserves to die. On the other hand, I believe that killing is justified in some circumstances like a war that needs to be fought (WWII for example). In those cases, it is actually saving lives. The death penalty does not save lives. Btw, I'm not religious. What serves no purpose to me is to imprison someone for life, knowing full well they would kill again tomorrow, if set free. What purpose does it serve to do this, beyond a need for revenge and a waste of taxpayer dollars? Consequences to actions. When it's not a situation of circumstantial evidence, I'd rather they amend the law so these killers aren't sitting it out on Death Row, sent directly to the chemical room via luge chute. 17 seconds is a good time. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 What serves no purpose to me is to imprison someone for life, knowing full well they would kill again tomorrow, if set free. What purpose does it serve to do this, beyond a need for revenge and a waste of taxpayer dollars? Consequences to actions. When it's not a situation of circumstantial evidence, I'd rather they amend the law so these killers aren't sitting it out on Death Row, sent directly to the chemical room via luge chute. 17 seconds is a good time. Wonder how many people in prison would opt for a painless suicide if it was offered to them? Regardless of crime. Never understood why they had "suicide watches" for prisoners. Seems silly. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Wonder how many people in prison would opt for a painless suicide if it was offered to them? Regardless of crime. Never understood why they had "suicide watches" for prisoners. Seems silly. Anyone who continues to commit heinous crimes should be given this option. It seems to me to be far more "merciful", than being life imprisoned or even "mixing it up" for years with other felons. CYA takes on a whole 'nother meaning. Link to post Share on other sites
bish Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 The big word there, is 'if'... and there are too many innocents walking the green mile and being condemned for something they didn't do. Name one. And it's ok to feed and clothe the rapists, paedophiles, bank robbers, muggers and joyriders, is it? Because they far outnumber the convicted murderers. I don't hear you complaining about feeding and clothing them Thats because we are talking about capital punishment and murderers. What would I like to see as far as rapists? Castration. Bank robbers? come on, they didn't kill anyone and could be "corrected". Muggers? I'd like to see them get the ever loving snot beat out of them during their stay in prison. but really, maybe with the exception of rapists, are you really comparing snuffing out someone's life to the rest of those crimes? Link to post Share on other sites
bish Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Well those of you who are bible fans, the bible justifies the murder of and adulteress and her lover Really? I'm liking the bible more an more!! Link to post Share on other sites
bish Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Capital punishment is truly immoral. To put someone in a room for twenty years and make them fight a futile battle to spare their life for the duration of that time is reprehensible no matter who the victim is you are right. The murderer's actions are saint like:rolleyes: Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Name one. http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/ncadp/content.jsp?content_KEY=2489&t=Innocent%20And%20Executed%20Section.dwt Found this, if it helps..... Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Well those of you who are bible fans, the bible justifies the murder of and adulteress and her lover Really? I'm liking the bible more an more!! It does not. You're taking the bible out of context. You'll NEVER understand scripture until you read it is as a WHOLE..... Link to post Share on other sites
Quinch Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 No, in that case you should alert the authorities so they lock the person up. Killing to avoid more killing is only justified when imprisonment isn't an option (like in war). If you're using WW2 as an example, are you saying it was okay to pass the death penalty on the whole of Germany for the crimes of it's leaders? I can't condone war under any circumstances. Link to post Share on other sites
redfathom Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I am coming into this very late, but I had a comment. Doesn't the bible say that one day there will be an apocolyse and all sinners will go to hell. Isn't that like say God will condem those who sin to Capital Punishment? I am not trying to start an argument on this, just curious. Link to post Share on other sites
bish Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 It does not. You're taking the bible out of context. You'll NEVER understand scripture until you read it is as a WHOLE..... DAMMIT!! I was really hoping the bible said that too. Link to post Share on other sites
bish Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Here's an idea. If ever the day comes a loved one of your loved ones is murdered, for all you that don't like capital punishment, when that day comes, shout out in a public forum, "I want the murderer of my loved one clothed, fed, given activities, exercise, and all the things that make prison more comfortable today as a result of liberal thinking. I want this for the person that killed my loved one and the best part is, its free for them!....please, take care of the murderer of my loved one!!" Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Will do. As a Buddhist I cannot condone Murder and refuse to accept that killing someone - anyone - is justified. They deserve to be punished. they deserve to have the full weight of the Law brought down upon them. But I have no right to demand their life in return for one they have taken. And neither will I ever do so. The Law is flawed. I believe Life should be Life, with no remand or parole. Prisoners should forfeit an awful lot of rights. Prison is no longer punishment, as much as it should be. They have TV, three meals a day and all manner of privileges which I do not believe they should be party to. I believe life should be hard, and imprisonment should be a punishment. The system should be overhauled, and many things should be reviewed. Killing is one of them. Link to post Share on other sites
bish Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Will do. As a Buddhist I cannot condone Murder and refuse to accept that killing someone - anyone - is justified. They deserve to be punished. they deserve to have the full weight of the Law brought down upon them. thats the problem. In today's liberal society, prison is like a resort without freedom. The only thing really taken away is their freedom. Otherwise it is free room, board, and entertainment. Prison isn't punishment. I say bring back the chain gang and put them in the blazing hot sun if we can't eradicate those who snuff out an innocent life. But I have no right to demand their life in return for one they have taken. And neither will I ever do so. I bet were in line when Hands Across America happened too werent ya? Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I'm not American. But when the Dalai Lama visited Londn this year, there was a 'shake hands for peace' that ran from the Royal Albert Hall, to the Chinese Embassy. I was in that. That was fun! Why is it such a bad thing to not want to kill people? Link to post Share on other sites
Quinch Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Why is it such a bad thing to not want to kill people? Well said The people who kill are the lowest form of scum, but why must we sink to their level? By sparing their worthless lives we prove that we are better than them and our way of life is better than theirs. That is our victory and their defeat. Link to post Share on other sites
Explorer Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 - Neither statistical studies nor social and psychological factors lend support to the deterrence theory - The mentally retarded make-up 3% of the US population and 10% of women and men on death row - The outcome of a capital case largely depends on how much money the defendant has - There's the possiblity of executing the innocent - Studies have shown that capital punishment is more expensive than keeping an offender in prision for life - The use of the death penalty has a brutalizing effect on society, rather than a deterrent effect I reported on this subject a couple years ago and these were my main arguments against it. As far as I can tell, they still hold true. Link to post Share on other sites
EnigmaXOXO Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 The people who kill are the lowest form of scum Actually, they’re psychopaths and sociopaths. Frontal right lobes are all messed up. You can’t “rehab” or fix that. Hasn’t been a pill or a psychiatrist yet that has managed to restore a conscience where none exists. And anyone naive or inexperienced enough to fool themselves otherwise has obviously never come face to face with one of these highly intelligent and dangerously unfeeling individuals. Smart enough to pantomime an emotion when it serves their agenda, but not physically, mentally or emotionally capable of actually feeling one. Particularly “remorse” as it pertains to any notion they might somehow connect the dots if left in a prison cell long enough to think about it. Of course, they use to give them lobotomies to render them harmless, but that has since been deemed inhumane and outlawed, too. The only “benefit” to spending millions on keeping these “specimens” alive is fodder for student psychologists and pharmaceutical trails. And of course, the occasional sympathizer who wants to feel better about their own humanity via sparing a life ... the real value of which remains debatable and often ( in our vain attempt to prove how much “better” we are) trumps that of the victim/s. So while you’re spoon feeding this animal through the bars and making kissy faces at it ... what do you tell yourself? --- That if we can turn this one around and reform him into a productive citizen, then somehow the brutal deaths of his victim/s will suddenly all be worth it (???) Personally, I’m not prepared to look at those bloody crime scene photos nor the victim’s surviving relatives in the face and try to call that “justice.” Anything short of executing him in the same manner he slaughtered his victims (for kicks) already seems too kind to me. Which is exactly why I would never want to make the call between punishment or forgiveness in the victim’s behalf. Better that they or their surviving families make that call for themselves based on their own personal/spiritual beliefs. While I agree that emotions shouldn’t play a role in “justice” ... the same should be said for the individual personal/spiritual believes of the jury members. Which are very much fueled by emotion and individual desire to prove self righteousness at the expense of any real “justice” for the victims. Don’t worry though. The odds of me or any of the pro Capital Punishment folks here ending up on a jury with the “hug a psycho and save the world” crowd are few and far between. If so, better pack your bags cause I’m just stubborn enough to hang that pansy-ayas jury up for MONTHS! Link to post Share on other sites
george35 Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I personally feel that the prospect of a life of incarceration is worse than being put to sleep. Maybe the issue is, like bish said; prisons, or our perception of them, are too nice for murderers and the like. I do think it is absolutely ludicrous to pay for the education of an inmate who has no chance of parole. Bish; in many states there sill are, “chain gangs” there just not in chains any longer and I believe they are trusties. Still, it is a little unsettling to see people in prison uniforms on the side of the road with officers clearly holding shotguns because I don’t need to be caught in the cross fire. And Also, it’s my understanding that the reason inmates are restricted from the types of work they can do is because some organization, (I wont mention), thought inmates where taking jobs away from citizens. Frankly; I wouldn’t want to see an inmate who is serving a life sentence outside of prison walls anyway. As far as recreation; I believe that is intended to give inmates something to do to help keep them from becoming restless and a problem. The United States is number one in yet another statistic; Inmate population per 100,000 people. The U.S. has 738, Russia is number 2 with; 607, the actual number may be as high as 823 however, (they’ll do anything to better us), Zimbabwe; 139 and our neighbors to the north, Canada comes in at number 28, with; 107, (remember; this is per 100,000 not total population). Nepal ranks dead last, (pardon the pun), of the 45 nations listed with; 26. This begs the question; “What are we doing wrong”? Killing people can’t be the answer because I don’t believe Canada kills inmates, but I can see why they finally require visas form Americas, (ok; U.S. American’s). These stats are from a 2006 report published by the National Council on Crime and Delinquency. With these stats I have to believe what we are doing wrong is outside of our prisions. Another stat I found interesting; the U.S. comes in at 13th to 23rd depending on the source; of "Best Countries to live in". We really need to get our act together! Link to post Share on other sites
bish Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Why is it such a bad thing to not want to kill people? It isn't. Protecting those who do kill, or more to the point, murder, is a bad thing. Link to post Share on other sites
bish Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Well said The people who kill are the lowest form of scum, but why must we sink to their level? By sparing their worthless lives we prove that we are better than them and our way of life is better than theirs. That is our victory and their defeat. No, they get a supported life through our pampered correctional system. Protecting murderers is despicable. Lets not punish them, why don't we put them up in a resort and tell them, "you have everything you need here, you just can't leave the premises". Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 It isn't. Protecting those who do kill, or more to the point, murder, is a bad thing. Who's protecting them? They've been sentenced by the judicial system of the country they live in, usually by a jury of their peers. There is no protection in Prison for them, but the system is simply geared to confining and not punishing in a suitable and appropriate way..... Link to post Share on other sites
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