Stockalone Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I agree with Lizzy that you should tell your friend about this. That was supposed to say Lishy. I apologize for that blunder. Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Did you mention to him that you knew he was also begging back the other girl? Link to post Share on other sites
Stockalone Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 So get this. I'm laying in bed, snoozin'. It's the middle of the night, and my phone rings. Who is it? HIM. He wants to talk to me, wants her friends to know "how much he cares." He specifically wants me to know that while he's a bad guy now, he can change. That he will change, because he loves her. I remind him that he didn't have some "accidental" slip-up. He lied and deceived two wonderful women for TWO and a HALF years! Over half of the time he's even known my friend, he's been lying to her. She fell in love with a complete lie! (I'm literally yelling this into the phone.) After telling him he's a sociopathic liar and completely effed in the head, I tell him, "You're too selfish to know what true love is. Even if you really do love her, that's not enough. TONS of guys would KILL to love her." I also asked him if he thought she could do better, if she deserved better than him. He said she did, but that HE WANTS to be with her so HE WILL. He's such a selfish ahole that even knowing being with her will cause her more hurt, even knowing there are a million guys out there who would treat her better, HE doesn't care because it's not what HE wants. In trying to "make nice" with her friends (like me), he calls when HE wants to. In the middle of the g'damn night. I can't believe this asswipe. Calling in the middle of the night is not the way to go. But at least he is taking steps to convince you and her other friends. Apparently, some people can change. I would expect him to talk to you and the other friends if he truly is sorry for what he did. That being said, I wouldn't believe a single word he says. But I am a very unforgiving person. And knowing that he has been talking to that other girl again, that is even more reason not to believe him. I am also not sure that it is realistic to expect someone to step aside just because there are potentially better options out there for the person you are involved with. There will almost always be someone better out there. The only situation where I think someone should not pursue a relationship is when they know that there is a high probability that they will eventually hurt the person they are with. And even though it is the right thing to do, not everyone will do it. Besides, it's not up to him to decide whether or not he can be with your friend. She made the choice to stay with him even after he hurt her. You and I might question if he deserved another chance, but your friend gave him a second chance. Tell your friend about your conversation with the other girl and see what she does with that information. Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 If you cannot convince her otherwise, I would suggest that you point them towards pre-marital classes or counselling so they can workout their real issues. Point them toward spiritual guidance as well. Someone mentioned ground rules as well, even a better idea. Relationships aren't always happy and wonderful all the time. If they were, this site might not exist. Link to post Share on other sites
Jilly Bean Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I would ask both of your gf's to lunch, let them meet, compare stories on this guy, and let them proceed on their own with how they want to deal with him. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Star Gazer Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share Posted September 30, 2008 Did you mention to him that you knew he was also begging back the other girl? Yes. He said when he did so he was drunk. I asked him why he talked **** about me to my friend and the other girl (obviously, he thinks I'm the devil), and he said he was defensive and angry. I asked him why he ever cheated on my friend to begin with. He said he was angry with her and lonely. I asked him a lot of questions. He had an excuse for everything. He was drunk. He was lonely. He was defensive. Blah blah blah. What we DID agree on is that he's going to be accountable. I told him to delete that girl's number and get a new phone number. He said he'd do that today and contact me when he's finished. I told him I'll be watching him like a hawk, and he said that he fully expected it. He said (jokingly) that I could put a PI on him and watch his phone bills and bank accounts to make sure he's on the up and up. He shouldn't joke about that kind of thing.......because if necessary, I'll do just that. Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 It's sad but I think men like this enjoy when someone ups the surveilance. It becomes even more of a thrill to get away with it. I'ld guess he's a big dare devil/risk taker too. I hope things work out for your friend, but like you said, 2 1/2 years is not an oops. Does he possess any empathy that you can see? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean-Blue Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Be polite, restrained and nonjudgmental. Your BFF is an adult, her eyes are open. Her reasons for wanting to marry this guy are, to her, compelling. She's invested a lot, and now she wants her return. Be there for her when the whole thing crashes and burns. Remember, you owe no duty to him. She's your friend. Stand by her even as she marches down the aisle into the fire. The only time intervention should occur is when there's risk of tissue damage. This duplicitous loser will break her Heart, not her bones. If you come down too hard, you'll jeopardize your friendship and leave her more isolated and defensive and place her deeper under his sway. Be alert for the law of unintended consequences. I totally second this! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Star Gazer Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share Posted September 30, 2008 It's sad but I think men like this enjoy when someone ups the surveilance. It becomes even more of a thrill to get away with it. I'ld guess he's a big dare devil/risk taker too. I totally agree. I think he enjoyed sneaking around for 2.5 years. I hope things work out for your friend, but like you said, 2 1/2 years is not an oops. Does he possess any empathy that you can see? Well, IMO if he had any remorse he'd leave her alone and let her find someone worthy of her. So...no. He didn't. In fact, he didn't even use the words "sorry" or "regret." Just "mistake." Like he accidentally tripped and slipped his d!ck in someone. Link to post Share on other sites
konfuzd Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I'm in a very similar situation with a friend of mine. It's got to the point where I have distanced myself from her because her bf gives me the creeps. I can't stand to be around him, and I've lost respect for my friend for being so clueless. It's really hard to respect someone who shows such little respect for themselves. I know you value your friendship, but for the long term, if you were to settle down and have a family, are these the type of people you want around your children? Does she change when she's around him? Do you find that most of your contact with her is her trying to convince you he's changing? Link to post Share on other sites
Lishy Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Oh he sounds bloody awful!! How dare he call so late! That is so rude!! I am not surprised that you feel how you do, your poor friend!! My advice still stands but you really need to tell her everything you know about things and then stand back. Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 What we DID agree on is that he's going to be accountable. I told him to delete that girl's number and get a new phone number. He said he'd do that today and contact me when he's finished. I told him I'll be watching him like a hawk, and he said that he fully expected it. He said (jokingly) that I could put a PI on him and watch his phone bills, bank accounts to make sure he's on the up and up. He shouldn't joke about that kind of thing.......because if necessary, I'll do just that. SG, don't you think that's a bit too much? I understand that you've spent 2.5 years with someone and that is well into long term territory - why not spend some time apart instead? or better yet, get some family counselling? Link to post Share on other sites
D-Lish Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Her friendship is sooooo important to me. This is literally breaking my heart. I just don't think I can do it for my own sanity. Close friends' relationships - particularly when there's as much deceit involved as there is in this case - can affect me just as much as my own. I had to suck it up and be a Maid of Honor AND wedding planner to my good friend that was marrying a total tool that isolated her from her friends and family and treated her with so much disrespect that she completely lost her vibrant sparkle and zest for life. I threw a huge expensive shower for her and he showed up at the end and honked his horn from my driveway to pick her up. he didn't speak to me, acknowledge me, or thank me for any of the timeless hours I spent helping with their wedding...not to mention the money I spent. He also banned her father from coming to the wedding. They are now living together in isolation- and she is not allowed to have her friends or family over to "his house". I tried to talk to her about her choice to marry him a few times before the wedding... but her mind was made up- she was completely smitten with him. We don't speak now- he doesn't allow it. I wish now that I had have stood by my original inclination to remove myself from their union. I don't know if it would have helped... but it might have. Yes, she is probably making one of the biggest mistakes of her life. Chances are though that she won't listen to what others have to say. Sadly, it is probably a lesson she will have to learn and endure. I wish I had have backed out looking back- been more forceful in my convictions that she wasn't thinking clearly. Her original MOH, her BFF from childhood staged an intervention and told her she couldn't support her choice to marry the guy... and was choosing not to stand up with her. Maybe if I had have done the same- things would be different. I say, stand by your convictions. I regret that I didn't. Who knows- I may have lost her either way. It's sad. Link to post Share on other sites
Ariadne Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 One of my BFF's was with this guy for 4 years. they're even planning the wedding!! What do I do? I'd congratulate her that she got him and is getting married, finally. She must be happy. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Star Gazer Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share Posted September 30, 2008 SG, don't you think that's a bit too much? I understand that you've spent 2.5 years with someone and that is well into long term territory - why not spend some time apart instead? or better yet, get some family counselling? Oh, oh, I TOTALLY agree. I've been advocating that the entire time. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I have been the girl in a trainwreck R who ignored all the signals from my friends until I couldn't ignore them anymore. And they stuck by me throughout even though they disapproved and were very vocal about their relief when it finally ended. In the end, it was the potential of my R with my BFF ending that prompted me to end the R, because the R wasn't worth losing her over. SG- you should tell your friend your opinion, but remind her that you love her, and leave it at that. I would probably want to be told about the continuing duplicity, however there is a risk involved if you tell her- she may still side with him. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 PS- I took full responsibility for not ending the bad R until I did. At the end of the day it was MY responsibility to get out of it, not my friends. I am just glad that they stuck with me and I have regained their respect since getting out of it. We are engineers of our own happiness, and while its frustrating to witness someone we love doing something we know is going to cause them unhappiness, they are the ones with the ultimate power to do something about it. Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Oh, oh, I TOTALLY agree. I've been advocating that the entire time. Well then, make it happen for you and your man. Hell, do both - first spend a month apart - recuperating, healing and getting on with life then come back together again BUT agree to meet up at some kind of couples-counselling type event? Link to post Share on other sites
Mary3 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Yes. He said when he did so he was drunk. I asked him why he talked **** about me to my friend and the other girl (obviously, he thinks I'm the devil), and he said he was defensive and angry. I asked him why he ever cheated on my friend to begin with. He said he was angry with her and lonely. I asked him a lot of questions. He had an excuse for everything. He was drunk. He was lonely. He was defensive. Blah blah blah. What we DID agree on is that he's going to be accountable. I told him to delete that girl's number and get a new phone number. He said he'd do that today and contact me when he's finished. I told him I'll be watching him like a hawk, and he said that he fully expected it. He said (jokingly) that I could put a PI on him and watch his phone bills and bank accounts to make sure he's on the up and up. He shouldn't joke about that kind of thing.......because if necessary, I'll do just that. You understand you are dealing with a Pathological Liar , right ? He creates his own reality. He has NO empathy for either girl and will likely continue to construct 2 lives again with both of them. He is likely Narcisstistic or Borderline PD. He lives for the RISK. He lives for the fun of having to juggle 2 girls.! You do NOT want to be this guys friend. EVER. He is psycho material and it would take intense therapy to fix this pill. ( maybe never ) But his fixations for the 2 girls will not stop. If he gives up one , he will find another. If he gives up both he will find 2 more and likely more risky behaviors follow. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Star Gazer Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share Posted October 1, 2008 Well then' date=' make it happen for you and your man. Hell, do both - first spend a month apart - recuperating, healing and getting on with life then come back together again BUT agree to meet up at some kind of couples-counselling type event?[/quote'] Me and my man? Huh? Link to post Share on other sites
Lishy Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Well then' date=' make it happen for you and your man. Hell, do both - first spend a month apart - recuperating, healing and getting on with life then come back together again BUT agree to meet up at some kind of couples-counselling type event?[/quote'] I think you need to read this thread properly!! Link to post Share on other sites
preeya_WT Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Don't have any relationship such type of person. Forget him:mad: Link to post Share on other sites
D-Lish Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Don't have any relationship such type of person. Forget him:mad: SG is speaking out of concern for her friend getting married to this guy... Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Sorry folks, had a really, really long day and sort of jumped in. Carry on. Link to post Share on other sites
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