Finally I received the call I'd wished for for so long

[sunshinegirl]

Feel better! I hear that migraines are a bitch; hope yours dissipates soon!

 

I don't think it's bad that it's going to wind up taking a few days for you to return the call. However...the more time that passes before you call back, and if he doesn't call again to reach you...the more I will think it was just a thoughtless, intention-less ego boost thing. I think Dominique is right in what he would have said if he wanted you back. Blech.

[Zapbasket]

Thanks SSG! I've never had a migraine before; I was seriously contemplating going to the ER yesterday--and would have if I hadn't lucked into a last-minute doctor's appointment.

 

I totally hear what you're saying but here's what I don't get: WHY would anyone call up an ex from the past for an ego boost? Never mind it being completely unfeeling; aren't there just plain easier ways to obtain an ego boost?

 

I have a really hard time imagining him being so very heartless. It's one thing to be heartless when the emotional stakes are high (he desperately wanted out of the relationship with me; I was wanting to talk about it which made him more desperate)...but to be that heartless nearly 2 years later???

[norajane]

I doubt he's calling for an ego boost. He knows how he broke up with you - you'd be the last person he would turn to for sweet words and ego inflation.

 

However, you called him about a year ago, which would have been about a year after your break-up, right? And he took your call, and he was polite and friendly and chatted with you. He only demurred when you suggested getting together sometime.

 

So, I'd suggest you do the same. Be polite enough to call him back, be polite enough to listen and chat long enough to find out if there was something he wanted. My guess is he was having a nostalgic moment when he called you, but who knows? Don't make more of this and don't make assumptions about egos and motives until you actually talk to him and determine whether there is anything to get up in arms about.

[Zapbasket]

Thanks Norajane. That's good advice. I'm kind-of glad for this migraine in that it forces me to take my time to call him back, if I do at all. I see this as an opportunity to redefine my boundaries--not so much with him, as in general.

 

It's true he received my call. But I restricted my number when I called. When he picked up, he had no idea it was me. He found himself on the phone with me and, I suppose, decided to be polite and friendly as maybe he was just too blindsided to be rude.

 

I fear that the message he took from my phone call was that he could send me the unbelievably cruel e-mail he did and I would just take it. He ignored the card I sent him around the same time I called him. I fear that by calling him back I'm somehow acquiescing to a standard of treatment that contains no true regard for me. And I fear that if we have a brief but pleasant conversation, I'll hang up feeling completely degraded. But if I challenge him by asking the reason behind his call, then I'm afraid he'll act annoyed, and then I'll feel humiliated as well as pissed.

 

I just have lost my trust in him :-(

[underpants]

Did you return the call.

 

Or, are you reliving a past memory with super power analysis?

[Zapbasket]

None of the above. I'm using time, this space, and the advice of good friends to choose a new way of dealing with things like this. I keep getting hurt in the same way of late and I don't want to do just same-old, same-old.

 

Geez, it's not like I am staring at the wall all day contemplating what to do. I dunno, maybe if more people actually thought about their actions towards other people, there'd be a lot fewer wounded hearts and wasted opportunities.

[underpants]

Little GreenCove,

 

You will figure this out. Don't take too long to make a decision. By that I mean don't tear youself up over it. Especially when it could very well be a silly stressor.

 

You have alot of support here. So whatever course you decide will be met with your crew.

 

So in the words of a silly sci fi character. There is no try, just do or don't do.

 

Meet the demands of your migrane and come to terms with this head/heart ache that has plagued you for so long.

 

If you stumble we will pick you up.

 

Promise.

[RecordProducer]

Well, I haven't called yet. I've had a migraine that since Sunday has had me completely incapacitated. It's not the best time to make a reaching-into-the-past phone call, for sure.

 

So circumstances have put off the return phone call for me. Maybe that's a good thing. Lying in bed this morning, I thought how easy it would be for me just not to call back. I don't need to hear "I'm sorry"; I don't need to disclose what I'm up to or hear about what he's up to. He himself broke the basic respect boundary that would really make even a friendship possible between us.

GC, I think your headaches appear on psychosomatic basis; your subconsciousness is telling you not to call him. Your consciousness is using the headaches as an excuse to fight your curiosity. But your intuition knows what to expect from calling him: nothing good. You want to know why he called, but you also know that you shouldn't call him. It would disturb you and your new relationship. Believe me, if you thought calling him was important for your future, you would have called him with a headache. It's not an interview with the president. You do call your friends and family even though you have a headache, don't you, just to ask how they are doing? You just feel that calling him is pointless and potentially painful.

 

I disagree with the person who said if you don't call him you'll never know. If you never hear from him, it means he didn't call about anything important. If he has decided he wants you back, he'll find ways to reach you, he'll write you a letter, he'll call you many more times. If he loves you, he won't let it go. But he let it go for two years. I don't think anybody noticed the "coincidence" that he called right after you moved out. I suspect he found out that you're not an option for him anymore and that intrigued him. Until now he seemed completely disinterested and suddenly, he calls. If you show him that you're not interested in him anymore, I am afraid that his hunting instinct will awake and he will start chasing you just for the fun of it, just for the challenge - not because he truly loves you. I don't think it's YOU, I think it's him who might not be able to truly love anyone. I have a husband who is a commitment phobe; he plays games and regularly gets dumped (I am wife #3, all marriages were short).

 

I am not saying your ex is like this, but I don't want you to get hurt just because someone thought that losing you to another guy was kinda challenging and competing with him was a fun game to win. You sound like a very smart, eloquent, emotionally rich young woman, and it would be a shame to see you as a dice between two men playing games (one of which is the initiator).

 

Again, I am just guessing but it's based on what I hear from you. Your whole being is fighting this as if deep down you know that this guy is bad news.

 

Regarding your current partner, it seems like you love him, but it's obvious that you are not (yet) in love with him. It's also obvious that you're still in love with your ex (hence your tears in the shower and this entire thread). I understand your navigating between your ex and your current partner; it's because at the moment you feel you're better off with your new guy than alone, but you think you'd be even better off with your ex than with your current S/O. However, long-term, you might be better off with someone else. You're a young woman and I am afraid that a 20 years older man might not be able to give you all you need. My husband is 18 years older than I am, he is physically very fit, active, and perfectly healthy. He is also very smart, charming, witty, educated, well-rounded, and successful. Yet, the sex (along with affection and closeness) is not there, his friends are all 50+ and I'm sure he feels insecure around me (we also have a lot of issues and our marriage is falling apart). Living with a 50-year old man means that you will live a 50-year old person's life. And trust me, my husband is a kid at heart. But that's not enough.

 

In my case, I am looked down for not having what 50-year olds have (money, property, life experience); I am looked down for being a passionate, sensual, fun-loving young girl (I "embarrass" him); yet, I am not appreciated for being young, attractive, and full of life and energy.

 

In our age, people get together and don't remember the next day what happened the previous night. In their age, they try to leave an impression of success and grace on others. We are too young for etiquette and small talk. We still want to argue about global issues and change the world - or at least our lives. They don't. They are done searching, they are done changing; they make plans for retirement while we are making plans for our youth. Don't be fooled by their new hobbies, new relationships and new business endeavors.

 

He's been where you are right now; and you haven't been where he's been. Every woman who marries a much older man, no matter how happy she claims she's been (women are often in denial about the level of their happiness - they simply start getting very ill at 50 or 60), has given up 20 years of her youth. My husband, for example, rubs it in my face that he supports me financially; I told him: "So you want to pick the fruits of my youth, but you don't want me to pick the fruits of your youth?!" It's not about the money - this is how they reason about everything. My husband had a lot of sex when he was my age, but he expected me to give up sex because he doesn't need it anymore. He used to go out a lot when he was young, but now he's tired of it and we stayed at home every single night, unless invited somewhere or unless we flew some place with his airplane and his friends, who are all his age.

 

At our age, we don't care to fly to the Hawaii, to buy souvenirs and then go to sleep; we want to spend great nights with a hot-blooded man, drinking cheap beer and eating pizza in his small apartment. Then start a family from scratch and leave the kids to the grandparents every weekend so we can have time for ourselves.

 

You probably moved into HIS house, the house he's worked for his whole life. It won't be long before he'll make it clear for you that in his house HE makes the rules. It wasn't long for me at least. I am not telling you to leave him or anything like that; I am just telling you that he might not be such a great opportunity for you as you might think of him at this moment.

 

Back to your ex, how did he treat you when you were together? It seems like he didn't show enough respect and you think you should've stood up for yourself. There's a saying: give man power and you'll know who he is. If you open your heart and arms toward someone and he takes advantage of it and loses respect for you - instead of return your love equally - it only means that he is not the kind of person who can receive and give. If you had to stand up for yourself, it means he started disrespecting you because you loved him too much.

 

You should be yourself in a relationship. If you have to remind someone that you're a human being, then they don't treat you like one - and there is no excuse for that. But again, I am guessing a lot, not only because of lack of information, but also because you might not be aware of everything that was/is going on, just like most of us are not aware until we look at things in retrospect. The bottom line is: he didn't want you for the past two years, which means he doesn't truly love you. Maybe it's possible to resurrect a relationship after a long break and fall in love (again), I really don't know.

[Dominique]

RP, Damn girl--where'd you learn such great English....?

 

I love your posts and you're an LS favorite :love:, but I do beg to differ about "older men". You might be projecting your own situation with your H into a universal truism....that isn't.

 

I for one find older men--and they have been 15 to 24 years older than me on average--very sexy, very fulfilling, and in no way did I feel I was "giving up my youth", but actually feeling it "x 2". I happen to love the etiquette, the finesse and intellect, and in my experience the older-guy has a sensitivity to life and to women that you just don't find in the too- young or same-age young. I am not saying that same-age relationships cannot be thrilling and sexy. But in my experience I have always felt I was with a cousin, a brother, a college-friend when with the same age. The harmony isn't there in the same way. With older guys I have always felt super sexy and yet intellectually eye-to-eye with the them.

 

I am surmising that you are in "reaction" mode to your husband. That is, you want "the opposite" of what he is right now (or certain aspects of him) and that is absolutely natural.

 

We just don't want to see the future emails where you say, "This one is an immature, unsophisticated jerk who is still eating pizza in his small apartment!" :laugh:

 

But...to the matter at hand....I agree with you that I think this whole phone call business is being overblown. I too wrote, in a previous post, that if this were true love driving him, he'd call many times, anxiously, to find her.

 

DOM

[Zapbasket]

Thanks for your thoughts, Dominique and RP. I'm mulling over all you say. And as always, thanks for your support, Unders.

 

So let me ask you this: If I don't return the call, does that make me a small person? I have forgiven him, yes, but I can't forget. And I feel it's a bit much to expect me to call back when I am so in the dark as to his reason for calling. So the way I'm thinking now is that I don't really feel like returning his call. My life is going well; I'm happy; I do care about him and precisely for that reason I'm not interested in indulging in idle chit-chat after all this time. For me, what we had was substantial, and I don't think there's any kind of re-entry into each other's lives in any capacity without some acknowledgment of what we once had.

 

I just feel really rude not returning the call. I also don't want to come across as still festering in the hurt our breakup caused me. I mean, sure, the memory hurts, but it's not like I cry over it anymore. I came to terms with what I needed to come to terms with, and worked to move forward, and my life correspondingly moved forward. Yes, hearing from him stirs up some old feelings, but again, the life I have now is something built by my OWN talents and energies, with acceptance that he isn't a part of it. His absence from my life makes me sad sometimes, but if I were to make the effort to bring him back into my life I wouldn't call him up to "say hi."

 

I hesitate in NOT calling him back because he's NOT a shallow person, and so I doubt he's *just* calling to say hi. He is not very verbal and so he wouldn't gush on a voicemail about how sorry he is, blah blah. I know him well and I know that at core he is a truly good human being, with good intentions.

 

But...

 

I just feel like I need more. I don't need a long, drawn out co-constructed dissertation about our relationship. Just some clue as to the reason for his call after all this time.

 

Does that make me petty and small?

[Zapbasket]

Just now I'm home alone, cleaning my "GreenCove Room." I came across the parasol my ex bought me back in summer 2006, that was waiting for me on his bed when I flew to his homecity to attend the wedding of one of his best friends. It was from a parasol shop in his homecity that we'd visited together earlier that year, and he remembered 6 months later how much I exclaimed over their parasols and bought a particularly nice one for me.

 

I can't help it. It makes me so sad, how you can love someone so much, and maybe they loved you lots too, and then one day it's just gone never to be restored, not even in friendship. I have moved on, I have--I truly do love my current partner, and I am happy, and I'm always taking positive steps forward.

 

I just don't understand these feelings, the longing and nostalgia for something I know is gone forever. Yet the "artist" part of me, that can poeticize substance out of nothing, can visualize how the whole thing could be beautifully restored. I am wise enough to know that it can't be done alone via an act of the imagination; it takes both people.

 

And I don't even know that I'd want him back. I just know that what was broken by his choice nearly 2 years ago, I didn't want broken.

 

Funny that I can sit here and feel all this longing and nostalgia when just a little while ago I was feeling like I didn't really want to bother calling him back.

[RecordProducer]

RP, Damn girl--where'd you learn such great English....?

Thanks. Reading, reading, reading...

 

You might be projecting your own situation with your H into a universal truism....that isn't.

I absolutely do and i would love to be reassured, but I am afarid your statements about how sexy older men are doesn't do it for me.

 

I happen to love the etiquette, the finesse and intellect, and in my experience the older-guy has a sensitivity to life and to women that you just don't find in the too- young or same-age young. I am not saying that same-age relationships cannot be thrilling and sexy. But in my experience I have always felt I was with a cousin, a brother, a college-friend when with the same age. The harmony isn't there in the same way. With older guys I have always felt super sexy and yet intellectually eye-to-eye with the them.

Me, too! Why do you think I love older mena nd married two of them (one12, the other 18 years)? But it's different to date them and live with them for many years. After all, ask yourself, why do THEY want younger women? Bceuase we are young meat and make them feel young. But just like we view the men our age as kids - older men also view us. And that shows in their treatment.

 

I am surmising that you are in "reaction" mode to your husband. That is, you want "the opposite" of what he is right now (or certain aspects of him) and that is absolutely natural.

Yes, this is true.

So let me ask you this: If I don't return the call, does that make me a small person?

Not at all.ou should do what's best for you. Giving priority to the psychology behind you NOT calling him or good manners will make you more of a petty person (although I don't think there's anything petty about whatever you decide to do). If you don't want to call him, just imagine that you forgot to call him. Why can't he call again if he cares so much? I am afraid that you will go back to the misery, that you'll melt down, expect him to propose something significant regarding your love, and when he doesn't, you're going to feel worse than ever.

 

Your situation reminds me of Big and Carrie in Sex and the City; she longed for him and he never committed, even married another girl. Finally, he came to her and said "You're theone" and she accepted him with open arms. Your guy is not like him, but are you really want to be the type of woman who waits for her guy until he makes up his mind and then accepts him? Only you can answer this question. There is no right or wrong answer.

 

I don't really feel like returning his call. My life is going well; I'm happy;

Then don't call him. But if you feel like calling him, that's OK, too. I intimately want you to call him to find out what he wanted because I am curious.

 

I just feel really rude not returning the call. I also don't want to come across as still festering in the hurt our breakup caused me.

No, it's not rude. In love and war, everything is allowed.

 

I mean, sure, the memory hurts, but it's not like I cry over it anymore.

You did cry the other day in the shower! You're not over him, girl. My ex-husband dumped me and there are no memories that hurt me anymore. I am glad that he broke it off.

 

I just feel like I need more.

You mean you need to get back together. And if you don't, how will you feel? Can you handle the possibility that he might not want you back? Will you be able to go back to your life and feel good again?

[Zapbasket]

 

You did cry the other day in the shower! You're not over him, girl. My ex-husband dumped me and there are no memories that hurt me anymore. I am glad that he broke it off.

 

Well, sure. Crying after receiving a phone call that was like a call from the dead is a very different thing than crying every day because the breakup continues to hurt me so much. It was something I never expected, and it shook me up at first. I mean, back when I WAS crying every day over the breakup, I finally was able to move on when I sat with myself and said, "You will never hear from him again. This is IT. Now, what are you going to do with it?" So, to hear from him of course shakes things up a bit.

 

You mean you need to get back together. And if you don't, how will you feel? Can you handle the possibility that he might not want you back? Will you be able to go back to your life and feel good again?

 

No, I mean I need something more. I don't believe that you can treat someone cruelly and then expect that if you wait long enough, it all is water under the bridge and you can just call to chat. I've had a couple of people in recent years think this is how it goes, and I have discovered that I am unable to move forward until the other party has somehow acknowledged the unpleasantness that occurred in the past. Otherwise I just can't sustain enough respect for them to bother keeping in touch. I find myself uninterested in what's going on in their lives, though I wish them well.... I just don't want to involve myself intimately with people who think that's the way intimacy works. You can't create a relationship in the present without putting the past to rest. And you can't do that by just pretending it didn't happen.

 

More or less I have forgiven my ex. I don't need to hear an apology from him, since I found within myself the ability to come to some level of peace with how things ended, enough so to be able to move on and just chalk the whole thing up to experience--regrettable experience, but experience nonetheless. I've forgiven my ex because I no longer am looking for something from him. But if he's looking for something from me, then I think it's fair that he not expect anything until he has made some acknowledgment of the childish and unnecessarily cruel way he broke our relationship.

 

The struggle I have is that because I care about him as a person, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and just call him back. But then I discover how deeply my trust in him is shattered. I'm a pretty trusting, caring person, and so this discovery is hard for me.

[tinke]

G.C., from your previous posts, you have admitted to "over-analyze".

If it doen't feel right, don't call.

 

But, from what I get about you, it will not rest, you will most likely wonder the reason for his call, etc. Then keep this active with waiting IF he should call again.

 

I'd have to say, it seems pretty simple, if you did not have feelings for him, I do not believe you would even be entertaining the idea of returning his call. This is why I believe you may keep this alive if you do not call him, which may interfere with your current R.

 

From your description of him and his lack of expressing himself, I would be surprised if he would call a second time.

 

What I am saying is, if you are thinking of calling, do it already, so you may then get a clear picture of what this is all about. It seems that you are just putting things on hold which

may become even more confusing...thinking and thinking.

 

Best to you.

[Zapbasket]

I just don't want to get hurt. Nothing is worse than feeling disrespected--and having to acknowledge that it was YOU who put yourself in disrespect's path.

 

I think there should be a rule that when you break up with someone, that's it: no contact. Ever. At least this should be the rule when one person didn't want the breakup.

 

Maybe if there were such a rule, it would help cut the ambivalence that seems to serve as the M.O. of so many members of the dating pool. Ugh.

[tinke]

But he did contact you. So now, as I see it, do you think you can continue to move on without learning what his call was about. Or will you regret not calling to find out?

[norajane]

I fear that by calling him back I'm somehow acquiescing to a standard of treatment that contains no true regard for me. And I fear that if we have a brief but pleasant conversation, I'll hang up feeling completely degraded. But if I challenge him by asking the reason behind his call, then I'm afraid he'll act annoyed, and then I'll feel humiliated as well as pissed.

 

I just have lost my trust in him :-(

 

You've often said he's not great at communication. I'm sure he hasn't gotten much better at it since you've been apart. So, yeah, you probably won't get the kind of conversation you want.

 

You should still be honest with him and take the conversation in the direction you want it to go. "You called just to say hello? You know, I never got an apology from you for the way you ended our relationship, and I don't really want to chit chat with you with that hanging between us."

 

 

Back when your break-up was still fresh, you wished that he would TALK to you, you couldn't fathom how he could just never want to talk to you again. Here's your chance to talk with him and get some of your questions answered. Maybe you don't care to know the answers anymore? See how far you've come!

[sunshinegirl]

Hi GC, any new thoughts on whether to return the ex's call? I assume you haven't done it yet...

[tinke]

Well G.C., what happened?

[CherishG]

Im also curious and concerned...

any news GC? We're all here waiting on u

[Lishy]

Yeah I am concerned too

 

But not about the phone call, I am worried about that headache she had!

 

Check in GC!!

[Sysyphus28]

My ex called three times last weekend and didn't leave any messages. I havn't called her back. I have been in NC for almost a month. I am afraid talking to her will not make me feel good. I miss her terrible, but I had to let her "lie in the bed she made" and not give her any ENERGY. Should I call her back, or let her call again sometime(and hopefully have enough respect to leave a message).

 

SYS

[tinke]

ok Greencove, you've got us invested in this...what's been going on?

[Lishy]

I am seriously worried about the headache she was getting - I had 2 friends have brain heomorages within 6 months and they both started with severe headaches

[tinke]

Greencove, are you alright?