The sanctity of… dating?

[Lee]

Tony, you brought up something while responding to my questions which I think should be discussed as a separate issue. I have a feeling that because marriage has somewhat lessened in value, and more people are opting to just date perpetually, or live together, or whatever, that dating has now been equated with marriage in some people's minds.

For me, it is frightening that there is such reduced sensitivity to the sanctity of other people's relationships.

The sanctity of SEEING someone? Why do you say dating is as sacred as marriage? Doesn't that cheapen the value of marriage? Or aren't you altering the purpose of dating, which is to DETERMINE whether or not you want to spend your life with someone?

For me personally, I will always hold a great deal of respect for other people's relationships. As much as I am attracted to a woman, if she is with someone else she's off limits. (Respect...is that still in the dictionary?)

What if she noticed you were attracted and became attracted to you? That does happen, you know. Even to married people. But she's not even married. She might even be having second thoughts about the person she's with. But you won't know, because you hide your feelings without giving her a chance to make her own decision.

 

What if you did let her know? She might say, "no thanks", which is where you show your respect for her relationship by backing off. Or she might return your feelings, and good for you. But you would rather just switch off your love. Neat trick, but it's scary that you can do that.

[J]

I have it bad for a guy I met a few weeks ago. We've been exchanging email ever since. Problem is, he has a girlfriend. I don't know anything about her except that they're not living together. Sure. I ALLOWED myself to fall in love. Why don't I just ALLOW myself to fall out of love? Problem solved. Naive, naive Tony. lol

Let me get this straight, you met him a FEW weeks ago and have only exchange email and phone conversations and you are in LOVE? By calling Tony naive, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

For me, it is frightening that there is such reduced sensitivity to the sanctity of other people's relationships. The sanctity of SEEING someone? Why do you say dating is as sacred as marriage? Doesn't that cheapen the value of marriage? Or aren't you altering the purpose of dating, which is to DETERMINE whether or not you want to spend your life with someone?

Dating and/or seeing someone is in no way equivalant to relationships, "reduced sensitivity to the sanctity of other people's relationships", how you came to the conclusion that he was referring to dating and not too an involved relationship has me quite intrigued, so please do explain.

What if she noticed you were attracted and became attracted to you?

If he was a real man, he would tell his girlfriend or dating mate, that he is attracted to another woman.

That does happen, you know. Even to married people.

63% of marriages end in divorce. No statistical reasons why, but generally speaking, people rush into things(two weeks) and don't think about the effects it has on lives until it is too late.

But she's not even married.

Then open dating should be discussed if this is not yet a serious relationship.

She might even be having second thoughts about the person she's with.

Again, maturity level of communication with the two people.

But you won't know, because you hide your feelings without giving her a chance to make her own decision.

Why develop feelings for someone who is in a relationship? If they are not happy but won't leave the relationship, that is called co-dependency. Who wants to get involved with a co-dependent person?

What if you did let her know? She might say, "no thanks", which is where you show your respect for her relationship by backing off. Or she might return your feelings, and good for you.But you would rather just switch off your love.

 

Neat trick, but it's scary that you can do that.

 

I definitely agree with the first part but

 

you fell in love before you even knew how they felt?

 

Talk about a neat trick.

becoming closer friends even now. And we have mutual friends. What am I supposed to do?

Stay friends, if his girlfriend and him aren't a good couple, they will break up. If you guys are becoming good friends, you'll know what is going on in the relationship, give him good advice based on what you know. And in the end the more suitable couple, not just yours but eveyones', will be together.

[Lee]

Let me get this straight, you met him a FEW

weeks ago and have only exchange email and phone conversations and you are in LOVE? By calling Tony naive, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

HE said I was in love. No where in my message do I say I'm in love. I said "deep feelings" and "have it bad". That means I'm interested. I was arguing the fact that he seems to think one can switch love off.

Dating and/or seeing someone is in no way equivalant to relationships, "reduced sensitivity to the sanctity of other people's relationships", how you came to the conclusion that he was referring to dating and not too an involved relationship has me quite intrigued, so please do explain.

I was referring to dating, so I assumed he was too. The guy in question has a girlfriend; not a live-in, not a wife… a girlfriend. Dating is the issue on the table, because this is why I asked my question in the first place!

If he was a real man, he would tell his girlfriend or dating mate, that he is attracted to another woman.

Exactly my point.

63% of marriages end in divorce. No statistical reasons why, but generally speaking, people rush into things(two weeks) and don't think about the effects it has on lives until it is too late.

Why do you think I'm thinking about it NOW? Isn't the fact that I posted my original question to my credit? Or have I been branded a horrible person just for considering the question? Guess I should have kept it to myself and perhaps made a terrible mistake, huh?

Then open dating should be discussed if this is not yet a serious relationship.

Perhaps it has, perhaps it hasn't. You'll have to ask them.

I definitely agree with the first part but you fell in love before you even knew how they felt? Talk about a neat trick.

Again the word "love," which I never used in reference to this specific person.

Why develop feelings for someone who is in a relationship? If they are not happy but won't leave the relationship, that is called co-dependency. Who wants to get involved with a co-dependent person?

Everything's so logical, right? If that were true, there would be no need for this forum. You've never had feelings for someone without knowing everything about them? I spent a great evening with this guy the first time I met him, but I didn't get his life story, sorry. What's the minimum time limit for developing feelings for someone? Five hours? A day? A week? It wasn't love at first sight, but it was close; I'm only human. It's crazy how people here seem to think I planned this!

Stay friends, if his girlfriend and him aren't a good couple, they will break up. If you guys are becoming good friends, you'll know what is going on in the relationship, give him good advice based on what you know. And in the end the more suitable couple, not just yours but eveyones', will be together.

I agree with most of this. But as for giving him advice… sure, here's my next posting: I Really Like This Guy, Help Me Keep Him and His Girlfriend Together.

 

You don't know us women very well… lol

[J]

HE said I was in love. No where in my message do I say I'm in love. I said "deep feelings" and "have it bad". That means I'm interested. I was arguing the fact that he seems to think one can switch love off. you allowed yourself to develop strong feelings for him.

**Sure. I ALLOWED myself to fall in love. Why don't I just ALLOW myself to fall out of love? Problem solved. Naive, naive Tony. lol

 

This is from your last Re: message. Your words, not mine.

 

I was referring to dating, so I assumed he was too. The guy in question has a girlfriend; not a live-in, not a wife& a girlfriend. Dating is the issue on the table, because this is why I asked my question in the first place!

 

Perhaps it has, perhaps it hasn't. You'll have to ask them.

Then ask him.

Again the word "love," which I never used in reference to this specific person.

Refer to the above post.

Everything's so logical, right? If that were true, there would be no need for this forum. You've never had feelings for someone without knowing everything about them? I spent a great evening with this guy the first time I met him, but I didn't get his life story, sorry. What's the minimum time limit for developing feelings for someone? Five hours? A day? A week? It wasn't love at first sight, but it was close; I'm only human. It's crazy how people here seem to think I planned this!

No one said you planned this, you asked for opinions, people gave them. Your choice. Do what you want, you will anyway, none of us have to deal with the consequences.

I agree with most of this. But as for giving him advice& sure, here's my next posting: I Really Like This Guy, Help Me Keep Him and His Girlfriend Together.

I would try to explain what I meant here, but I believe with you it would be a mute point.

You don't know us women very well& lol

LOL...I am a woman. Girls should be inserted above not woman.

[Tony T]

You seem to be hell bent on defending your position on the matter and I don't blame you. Therefore I will once again state my position and the world can evaluate it.

 

I just don't think people should go around taking whatever they like, girls, guys, stuff in stores, cars, whatever. There is human decency and there are laws.

 

Every relationship we have is sacred if we have given our word. That includes business relationships as well as those personal in nature. Of course, there are many whose word means nothing so it doesn't bother them to break it. My word, however, is my bond. If I tell a lady I am committed to her, I am THAT.

 

I don't know your age but I suppose younger people would not take dating, committment or word-keeping as seriously as people who are older and have been through the ringer. That's quite OK. We seem to be in an era of serious moral decay and I have got to get used to that...but I don't have to succumb to it.

 

There are many things that can end a relationship. But we make committments primarilly so each can be secure that the other is not arbitrarily looking around for others. Let me tell you, I am a champion of falling for ladies and I can go to the mall right now and flip over a hundred of them. My word and my ethics do not allow me to do that. It has nothing to do with attraction. I meet women ALL THE TIME I am both physically and intellectually attracted to. It would not be a practical thing to move on every situation.

 

I don't equate marriage with dating. I equate committment and giving ones word with a degree of sanctity that must be upheld in a certain way. Of course we can change our minds. In the businessworld, what you are wanting to do is a tort under civil law, called interference with contract. In the world of personal relationships, I have some words for it.

 

Do what you want to do, be ready to face the consequences (good or bad) and don't make a crusade out of this...please. You seem to be working extremely hard to make yourself feel good about winning another ladies boyfriend. I hereby declare you convinced, from my standpoint.

 

At any point, you asked for people's thoughts but you only want to hear what you want to hear...and that's OK. If you have no respect for other people's relationships, I would hardly think you would have respect for what we say here.

 

You won't change my ethics or morals and I won't change yours...and don't want to. But I will say that I am so happy you or your likes aren't a part of my circle of friends.

[Bobbie]

Amen Tony!!!!!!!!!!!!

You seem to be hell bent on defending your position on the matter and I don't blame you. Therefore I will once again state my position and the world can evaluate it. I just don't think people should go around taking whatever they like, girls, guys, stuff in stores, cars, whatever. There is human decency and there are laws. Every relationship we have is sacred if we have given our word. That includes business relationships as well as those personal in nature. Of course, there are many whose word means nothing so it doesn't bother them to break it. My word, however, is my bond. If I tell a lady I am committed to her, I am THAT. I don't know your age but I suppose younger people would not take dating, committment or word-keeping as seriously as people who are older and have been through the ringer. That's quite OK. We seem to be in an era of serious moral decay and I have got to get used to that...but I don't have to succumb to it. There are many things that can end a relationship. But we make committments primarilly so each can be secure that the other is not arbitrarily looking around for others. Let me tell you, I am a champion of falling for ladies and I can go to the mall right now and flip over a hundred of them. My word and my ethics do not allow me to do that. It has nothing to do with attraction. I meet women ALL THE TIME I am both physically and intellectually attracted to. It would not be a practical thing to move on every situation. I don't equate marriage with dating. I equate committment and giving ones word with a degree of sanctity that must be upheld in a certain way. Of course we can change our minds. In the businessworld, what you are wanting to do is a tort under civil law, called interference with contract. In the world of personal relationships, I have some words for it. Do what you want to do, be ready to face the consequences (good or bad) and don't make a crusade out of this...please. You seem to be working extremely hard to make yourself feel good about winning another ladies boyfriend. I hereby declare you convinced, from my standpoint. At any point, you asked for people's thoughts but you only want to hear what you want to hear...and that's OK. If you have no respect for other people's relationships, I would hardly think you would have respect for what we say here. You won't change my ethics or morals and I won't change yours...and don't want to. But I will say that I am so happy you or your likes aren't a part of my circle of friends.

[Lee]

LOL...I am a woman. Girls should be inserted above not woman.

Personal insults are not very helpful, or mature. Fortunately, most of your good arguments were made a long time ago.

[Lee]

I already said as a response to the original thread that I would try to limit face-to-face contact with this guy. In that respect, you have helped.

 

But you haven't told me what I'm now supposed to do with these feelings. Being sexually attracted to hotties in malls is not what I'm talking about. By trivializing my feelings for this person with whom I really connect, you're not helping me put them aside. And by saying "gee, I'm glad I'm not your friend" you're not being very sensitive to the fact that I came here for help. Thought is not a crime, action is. And I haven't acted. I shudder to think how you treat someone who comes here because they're trapped in an actual affair, or those who say they're in love with two people!

 

I'm sorry, the mistake was mine. I was embarassed to talk to any of my friends because they know him, and I find it hard to open up to family members because they see me as so strong and independent because I'm not one of those people who's always desperate to be in a relationship. But I should have gone to one of them first. And I will now. Maybe they can tell how to put my emotions for this person behind me without insulting my morals and me. Thanks for helping me see that the people who really care about me are the only ones who can really help. This is the first and last time I do the online advice thing. Bye.

[Tony T]

Perhaps I personally owe you an apology.

 

My input has been based on your initial post. The details were very sketch and I didn't realize at the time you ommitted a lot. I don't know you, your background or your personality. I have learned a lot from this.

 

I think it is important to get advice from friends...or, in your case, from uninterested parties if they are given lucid, full background and details.

 

Your original post gave me the impression you just engaged in flirtations with this man and wanted to move in on him, though he had a girlfriend. I am so confused by the way the later posts appear, I'm not really sure exactly what happened.

 

But I do get the impression you want to do the right thing and that you have been offended by my rather caustic approach and I am truly sorry for that. I post my opinions and advice here in order to help people..and sometimes I get pretty strong. In this case, it appears I was wrong and, again, I sincerely apologize.

 

I will be on pins and needles now because I will never know how all this turned out. I just hope you understand everyone here means well and a lot of people's lives have been changed in great ways because of this forum...we just didn't have all the information...and I still don't think I do.