What would happen if prostitution became legal in the U.S.?

[clatan]

Jamie31

 

I think your above reply is very cliche and a very uneducated response. I don't think that is at all why most women don't like prostitution. It IS degrading to women. I mean, there aren't very many male prostitutes...unless they are gay. But I mean, there are hardly ever men walking the streets looking for women to pay them to have sex. There are escort services, but that's a little different...it's not as trashy.

 

Whether it ever became legal or not...it would not change the way women are viewed in this society. It's a man's world, and probably always will be. Women will always be seen as objects, and will always be degraded. It may get a little bit better as the years go on, but somewhere, somehow.....women will always stay inferior. And it sucks.

 

 

moimeme

 

Well, Clatan, it's a funny thing. Some men actually want someone to get to know them and care for them. They want a woman to be a partner and companion in the long term. They want friendship, support, and love.

 

And you know what? You can't buy any of those things, no matter how much you pay your women-for-hire.

 

Frankly, I'd want nothing to do with a man who thinks short-term pay sex is superior to a genuine relationship. The prostitutes can have those guys and they're welcome to them.

 

 

 

In Response to these 2 posts...

 

 

I agree with you for the most part. But there are some points I don't exaclty agree with. Sure, prostitution may be degrading. But you seem to be saying that by paying a woman for sex, I am victimizing her and that prostitution is the male exploitation of women. I don't agree with you if that's the case. I won't disagree that prostitution is degrading somewhat, but it's no more degrading for a hooker than it is the John. There are a few rare exceptions, but the vast majority of prostitutes are not forced to sell their bodies. They do it totally of their own free will. They could work at McDonald's, be a Doctor, be a senator, be a construction worker or a secretery, but they choose to be prostitutes.

 

Why is it that you never hear this complaint...

 

"Prostitution is so degrading to a man. Those disgusting women seducing those poor guys and degrading them by having cheap sex with them and then taking their hard-earned money."

 

Sure, that's a ridiculous argument, but it's no more ridiculous than saying prostitution is the exploitation of women by men. It's kind of a double standard isn't it?

 

And I don't think that prostitution is better than a truly caring relationship. I would prefer to have a relationship with a girl is just my type, that really cares for me. But I'm sorry! I'm 32 going on 33 and it's never happened! I have been walked on by every woman I've ever dated. I don't think I've ever even gone on a second date with a girl before I'm dumped. I've been stood up, cheated on and lied to by EVERY, I MEAN EVERY SINGLE WOMAN I'VE EVER DATED OR TRIED TO DATE. And now, I don't even get the chance to meet women. I live in the middle of nowhere and work nights and weekends, so it can be months before I even SEE a single woman at all. And I've noticed that the last 3 years or so women are not at all attracted to me. I know why too. Because even though I have a respectable job, I only make 14,500 take-home a year. I've noticed that most women don't find that 'attractive' in a guy.

 

I've actually come to a realization lately that money is really all that the vast majority of women care about. Sure some of them may truly love their husbands and boyfriends but it's funny how they ALWAYS 'just happen' to fall for the yupster with a new car and good paying job. Deny it and disagree with me all you want, but that's the way it is! The biggest majority of relationships in this country are about money. Sure, they might not totally about money but if the guy doesn't make pretty good money you wouldn't see them with the women they date now. You can't deny what I'm saying. I suppose I'm totally wrong. Guys with no money and old beat-up cars get all the women right? Man!, those darn ditch diggers get all the fine chics! When was the last time you saw a gorgeous woman riding with some guy in a '74 Pinto? Most guys are Johns, they just don't realize it.

 

I'm sorry but, after being **** on the way I have, to be ignored and put down by women because I don't 'have this job' 'drive this kind of car' wear these kinds of clothes' it really insults me that I'm the one that people put down because I went to prostitutes. WHat? I don't deserve to have sex because I don't make good money? MOST, and don't misunderstand me, most but NOT ALL women are basically no better than those prostitutes. They are after the same thing. And I'm a scumbag simply because I don't do business with the right kind of whore!

[Jamie31]

And I don't think that prostitution is better than a truly caring relationship. I would prefer to have a relationship with a girl is just my type, that really cares for me. But I'm sorry! I'm 32 going on 33 and it's never happened! I have been walked on by every woman I've ever dated. I don't think I've ever even gone on a second date with a girl before I'm dumped. I've been stood up, cheated on and lied to by EVERY, I MEAN EVERY SINGLE WOMAN I'VE EVER DATED OR TRIED TO DATE. And now, I don't even get the chance to meet women. I live in the middle of nowhere and work nights and weekends, so it can be months before I even SEE a single woman at all. And I've noticed that the last 3 years or so women are not at all attracted to me. I know why too. Because even though I have a respectable job, I only make 14,500 take-home a year. I've noticed that most women don't find that 'attractive' in a guy.

 

If this is the case, then I encourage you to do some soul-searching to learn more about yourself. There is obviously something about you that turns women off. Or maybe you are just setting your standards too high when it comes to what kind of women you date. If you made some changes to yourself, I am sure you could find someone that would be willing to stick in out longer than the first date.

 

But it's unfair to say that all women care about is money and material things. It's not right to stereotype women like that. The way you view women and their roles might be a contributing problem to your not being able to find a woman. It's not the women, babe - it's you.

[Clancy]

I think prostitution should be legalized. First of all, in Canada, prostitution itself is not illegal, however soliciting in public for the purposes of engaging in prostitution is illegal.

 

Sound confusing. It's actually not. For example Jamie, if you decided to invite a man into your home in Canada and offered to have intercourse with him if he paid you a certain amount you would not be doing an illegal act of prostitution because you are in your own home, not in public. Say the same words on a street corner and you could be arrested for solicitation for the purposes of prostitution.

 

Personally, I think selling sexual services is not all that different from things like selling massages, doing colonic cleansing services, doing foot refelxology and a host of other body to body services. And why isn't porn acting considered prostitution?

 

Why is it so wrong for a woman say, to receive payment for masturbating a man to orgasm but it's not wrong for her to offer him a 2 hour full body massage.

 

I think prostitution as it exists now is degrading to women only because we've made the conditions surrounding it that way. Anything that has to be carried out in an illegal atmosphere is going to make the particiapants associated with it tainted by the tawdry atmosphere. Plus, the lower rungs on the prostitute ladder are occupied by drug addicts which doesn't make them appear especially attractive.

 

Legalize it and run it professionally and the occupation would , in a few generations become no more degrading to women then becoming a hairdresser. I think the Amsterdam example is a bad model to follow though. Placing women on sale in shop windows certainly does seem dergrading.

[clatan]

Jamie, you said...

 

"There is obviously something about you that turns women off. The way you view women and their roles might be a contributing problem to your not being able to find a woman. It's not the women, babe - it's you."

 

There, I will agree, may be something about me that turns women off but it has nothing to do with me and my personality. For one thing, although it really ticks me off that I was treated the way I was by these women, I realize that they where no good trash. I'm not unhappy that they are gone, just concerned about why. You say my attitude towards women may be why I can't find one. That's not the case either. I never had that attitude at the time I dated these women, I got this attitude I have now AS A RESULT OF dating these women.

 

I won't tell every detail or tell you my complete dating history of every woman. That would take forever, but I'll give a few examples of some of the women I've dated and how they've treated me....

 

In high school- There was Terri a girl that lived just down the road from me. She started talking to me a lot our Junior year, she always asked if she could get a ride home from me after school so I drove her home every night. We started hanging out a lot the last couple weeks of school and we decided to go to a last day of school party together. After we got to the party, she met this guy from our town who was about 26. He was missing half his teeth and was a bum and a drug addict. But he was a "bad boy" to her I guess so after meeting him only a half hour or so, she started making out with him in front of me LITERALLY. Then they went to his car, about 50 feet away and had sex.

 

When I was about 27 I played in a band. We played at a bar in Fall City, NE, not very far from Saint Joseph, MO where I lived at the time, where I met a 23-year-old school teacher and part time waitress at the bar named Jaime. She came over and started talking to me. We got to know each other and she gave me her email and phone number. Keep in mind that SHE APPROACHED ME I never begged her to go out and I never asked for her number. I mentioned that we where palying a big New Year's party and she said that her and another waitress wanted to come and party with us. I had a free ticket since I was in the band, so I told her I'd give them mine and buy (with my own money) another ticket so her friend, the other waitress could come. In the couple of weeks before the party she came down and we met to have dinner. Then the night of the party she didn't show and neither did the other waitress. She emailed me a few days later and said that she had come down with a really bad flu that night. Yeah Right! The next time we played at that bar, she wasn't there but Angie, the other waitress was. She mentioned that she'd hated that she missed our party. before she could say anything or give an excuse I mentioned Jaime being sick, she looked at me with a puzzled look and said "what?" And then paused and goes "Oh, Oh yeah, yeah it was really bad" (yeah that's it, that's the ticket!" about 2 months later, she wrote me just to say hi (and probably because she felt guilty) . She said she was about 3 months pregnant and that she was moving to Lincoln, Nebraska with her boyfriend, the father. (Funny she'd even mention that to me) Well that would mean that the baby was conceived well after we'd met, actually not far from the night of our party!

 

The next year, at that same New Year's Party we played, a really nice looking brunette came up and started talking to me. SHe was Kim, a 24-year-old high school teacher (another one). We danced and hit it off really well she gave me her number and the whole 9 yards. She even had all of her friends take pictures of us together. I was like her ideal guy at that moment. Then I said I'd better not drive and said I was going to get a cab home. She wouldn't hear of it and that she had a SUV full of friends with a DD and that I could ride with her and her friends. Then I said that I lived on the south side of town, which is the working class end of town no the yuppy 'burbs. SHe literally gasped and said "oh no, you're a South-Sider?!?! Then as we pulled up she exclaimed "That's your truck?!!" When she saw my rusty little S-15. Then she said "My god that's your house" WHen she saw the nice, but plain and small house that was actually my best friend's. I then said no, that I had moved to town not long ago and that I was just staying with him til I got an apartment. She then though that it was even worse since I didn't even have my own place at the moment. Instead of saying good bye, the last thing she said was (and I kid you not) "Well I'm sorry that you won't 'get any' tonight"

 

That's just two examples. I have plenty more. I'll assure you that I was always a nice guy and a perfect gentleman and I never tried to act like someone I was not.

And you think it's me and not the women?????

 

To quote another of your replies Jamie...

"Or maybe you are just setting your standards too high when it comes to what kind of women you date."

 

What does that mean? I'm curious do you think that I'm really "not good enough" for these women? I'm not angry, I'm just curious as to what exactly it is you mean by that.

 

As far as your last comment....

"But it's unfair to say that all women care about is money and material things. It's not right to stereotype women like that. "

 

Did I ever say ALL WOMEN are about money and material things? No! Every time I say this I make sure that I say not all but most women I've ever known, yet someone always tries to put words in my mouth. Look in my posts. I never said "all women" but MOST WOMEN I'VE KNOWN ARE GOLD-DIGGERS. I'm not saying that guys are perfect either they are just as bad in different ways. I'm just making an observation based on my experiences. Why does eveyone try to turn this into a battle of the sexes? What I say is true. Here's proof. How many women are there that look just like supermodels that are with with equally good looking men who make $7.00 an hour? No matter how good looking and respectable they are, how many guys that make very little money are dating knockouts?

 

Never mind the 'knockouts and supermodels" I guarantee you that if you where to take a survey of men across the US, you'd find that the number of availible men would go up as you go down in the pay scales. Do you think otherwise?

[fenoketer]

Like clatan the above poster mentioned... I agree totally. I work a respectable job but only take home less than 14,000 a year. I am fairly attractive I think and I manage to get a lot of dates and phone numbers from really cute girls here in SoCal. But I've been dumped by every one of them the minute they see my house or car or when they see what I do for a living. But that's why Joe Millionaire is a great show. Paybacks are so sweet! Women bitch that all guys are superficial and shallow, yet it isn't too difficult to find a group of women who are more than happy to get to know a guy they suspect is a millionaire. My favorite part is when he has to make his cuts...the looks on their faces, priceless! They have never been turned down- EVER and finally THEY aren't good enough! I would be trying like hell to bang as many of those golddigging whores as possible! I'm know that it wouldn't be too hard. They do think you're filthy rich so they'd gladly drop to their knees at the snap of a finger. Yes, it is evil, but think of what they are trying to do, that guy could be a hunchback and they'd still would be all over him. They deserve it! Oh yeah, by the way, I am bitter. Strike one for the middle-class, nice guys!

[fenoketer]

To Clatan,

 

I totally understand what you are saying, you sound so much like me my friend. We should use this forum to open some discussions on how we could start playing along with these golddiggers... sort of our own Joe Millionaire. Make them think you have money. I can always rent a really nice car. But it would also be good if I knew someone with a really nice big house that would let me borrow it. I'd be set then. Reel them in bang 'em and then after you wipe it on her curtain.... oh by the way, I drive a rusty '73 Chevy and make 14,000 a year. HaHa! Let's get some ideas going!

[moimeme]

Nobody ever looks at himself after getting rejected and says 'gee, what about my personality might be lacking or needing repair'? Nope. It's blame appearances or blame 'gold-diggers' or blame, blame, blame. It MUST be everybody else's fault, surely there's not a thing wrong with you at all.

 

Clatan - none of your stories were about 'dating' per se. You didn't even get as far as a date, which isn't the same thing.

 

she always asked if she could get a ride home from me after school so I drove her home every night

 

Clue # 1. If you give something to someone and s/he doesn't offer to take a turn at giving you something back, stop giving the something. Yes, do it a few times before expecting something, but decent social intercourse demands that people not only take from others. That someone would is not a good sign.

 

Keep in mind that SHE APPROACHED ME I never begged her to go out and I never asked for her number. I mentioned that we where palying a big New Year's party and she said that her and another waitress wanted to come and party with us. I had a free ticket since I was in the band, so I told her I'd give them mine and buy (with my own money) another ticket so her friend, the other waitress could come.

 

Clue #2. Don't buy stuff for strangers. Buy her the ticket on the night if she is with you.

 

But most of all, you need to get involved in something where you will meet people; NOT bars. Yes, you work a lot and live in the sticks. Maybe try online dating. People are finding people in droves online.

[fenoketer]

See if it was a girl that was done that way it would be oh poor girl those scumbags!

[clatan]

OK, this is what makes me so angry. It's insult to injury. I get stepped on in the biggest way and all anyone can do is find fault with me. I'm not saying that I made the wisest of choices with these women. I'll admit that. But did I do anything mean to them?!? And I assure you that I will never be a sucker/nice guy like that again. You at the same time seem to completely ignore behavior in these women that is downright sleazy. You say that I blame others when I should blame myself. This girl lived down the road from me, on my way home, so I gave her a ride. So that was evil of me? And contrary to what you say, this WAS A DATING SITUTATION with us. We went out twice before. And the night of that party was also definitely a date. So, since I drove her home and didn't expect something in return, that was evil of me. ("Love is doing for others and not expecting anything in return" Seems like I've heard that a million times. Now I'm really confused) Having your date screwing a slimy drug addict she just met in front of me... You are saying I deserved this?

 

The other girl referred to me many times as "My future husband" we went out twice before this (Once again you obviously skipped that part) so it was a DATING RELATIONSHIP! I'll admit that I shouldn't have bought her friend the ticket. I'll admit it wasn't wise of me, only because of the way some women are. But don't you think it's kind of a stretch to say that I'm at fault because I did someone a favor?!?! SHe lyed to me and was dating someone else (screwing and making a bay with someone else too!) While dating me. And I deserved that because I was a nice guy and bought her friend a ticket to a party?!?!?!?

 

I swear, I've heard everything now. Seriously... is this what you are suggesting? It sure looks like it. See, that's what I mean about women and nice guys finishing last. A woman hears about a guy doing a few minor things as a favor to a girls and being completely dumped on and before you know it, she has it turned around to where he's the one at fault. You just prove my point. With your skills, you should seriously look into being a lawyer. Think of the rapists you could defend! You'd have the victim in jail by the time you where done. Just a question once again... Do you really, honestly think that I deserved to be treated this way by those girls?!?!?

[moimeme]

There's a difference between suggesting you made some unwise choices and calling you 'evil', saying you were 'at fault' and that you 'deserved' anything. Those were all your interpretations. If anything, I was suggesting you might be a touch naive.

[clatan]

Originally posted by moimeme

Nobody ever looks at himself after getting rejected and says 'gee, what about my personality might be lacking or needing repair'? Nope. It's blame appearances or blame 'gold-diggers' or blame, blame, blame. It MUST be everybody else's fault, surely there's not a thing wrong with you at all.

 

Well, reading the above statement, it sure seemed that you suggested more than I was a 'touch naive'. So what in my personality do you think might need repair? So it wasn't their fault it was something that was wrong with me? Was there some part of my personality that needed repair which left that girl with no other choice but to f*ck another guy in front of me. So there was something lacking in my personality that forced the other girl to date and screw another guy behind my back?

[moimeme]

Well, you could continue to misconstrue what I say (not a really good trait in person, since you ask) or you could remove your cause-effect seeking. I never said, nor intended to imply that your personality guarantees that bad things should happen to you.

 

And, obviously, since I don't know anything about you except that you appear to take offence rather readily, I can't possibly say what may or may not be a personality issue.

 

Another of our posters asked one of her friends for an objective appraisal of her personality and had the good grace to accept what she was told. You might want to try this and see what your pals suggest. Maybe I'm all wet and you're a real prize but I've no way of knowing.