jimmy08 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Do you believe humans have a free will? Why or why not? Link to post Share on other sites
disgracian Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 It's helpful to define what we mean by free will before we start talking about whether it exists or not, and in what context. Since this is in the religious section, I shall boldly presume that we're discussing the sort of free will that is mroe meaningful than whether you decide to have toast or cereal for breakfast. As far as our beliefs go, and the way we view the world, I don't believe we have free will. I for one cannot change my beliefs on a whim; I cannot just decide to believe in something. My beliefs are deduced, and no amount of self-deception can alter that. Cheers, D. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Although we all have a free will, we can't always exercise it. A lot that happens to us is pure chance. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 We all have free will. We all exercise it all of the time. Even when we decide we can't exercise it, we're making the decision that at this point, we're unable to comply with what we'd like to do, so we do the opposite.... Believe it or not, that's still 'free will'..... Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Although we all have a free will, we can't always exercise it. A lot that happens to us is pure chance. Even if something happens to us, that we have apparently no control over, we still have the liberty to decide what we're going to do about it. Free will is not about what happens, 'by chance' or otherwise. Free Will is about what we do, about what's happening. Link to post Share on other sites
audrey_1 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Free will is not about what happens, 'by chance' or otherwise. Free Will is about what we do, about what's happening. I would agree with this. I actually have "free will" in stylized font framed and sitting next to my computer at home. It serves as a reminder that I *do* have proactive or reactive power over things that cross my path. Sometimes it's harder to heed than one thinks, though. We allow external influences to shape our will, rather than making our purest choice. One of my ex-boyfriends used to have discussions with me about this, about walking our own unique, individual path without regret or resistance. That if we can do that, let go of things that no longer have a place or fit, just keep moving forward, where we end up would be where we truly belong. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 ....As far as our beliefs go, and the way we view the world, I don't believe we have free will. I for one cannot change my beliefs on a whim; I cannot just decide to believe in something. My beliefs are deduced, and no amount of self-deception can alter that. Cheers, D. So - you have exercised free will. You have taken a look at all the evidence, and you have come to a conclusion based upon that research. Ergo, you have exercised 'Free Will'. If your will were not free, you would have blindingly obeyed whatever you were told, and decided that everything was pre-ordained (as I believe the Hindus do... they ascribe that everything that happens to you is karma, so that's it and all of it really.....) I think you may be confusing Free Will and 'Destiny'....Not trying to be patronising... just trying to clarify......? Link to post Share on other sites
Riley Freeman Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 ummmm you can get up and do what you want and think how you please, no one is going to or can stop you, not even a higher power would stop you from doing what you want Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Do you believe humans have a free will? Why or why not? Yes, I strongly believe that every human being has free will. Whether it's cost beneficial to take an action is another story. Each person decides if they're willing to take the consequences of their actions. Some people don't think, then do, then regret. Others think, do, then more often than not, don't regret. Of course you have people who overthink, then get trapped with a personal stalemate, then regret. Haha...nvm, the permeatations are endless! Link to post Share on other sites
Tony T Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Do you believe humans have a free will? Why or why not? I think the movie was called Free Willy and I did believe in him because others told me how the movie would end. Link to post Share on other sites
Sks Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Free Will is a subjective term, people are a combination of experiences and DNA. What one will do can not always be predicted but it certainly is decided prior to them acting. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Maybe the question is better stated... If you believe in a God, do you believe that you have a free will? Is God's knowledge of the future somehow in conflict with the idea of a human free will? If God has predestined all that occurs, do we have a free will and can determine our future? Link to post Share on other sites
disgracian Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 So - you have exercised free will. I don't believe so, since I cannot will it otherwise. Does the leaf falling from the tree choose where it lands? If your will were not free, you would have blindingly obeyed whatever you were told That sounds like just as much (or as little) of an exercise of will as what I'm doing. I'm afraid I really don't see the difference. I think you may be confusing Free Will and 'Destiny'....Not trying to be patronising... just trying to clarify......? I don't mean to say that I'm destined to believe what I do, if that's what you're saying. I just think that in the absence of choice there cannot be any meaningful free will. Cheers, D. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I don't believe so, since I cannot will it otherwise. Cheers, D. OK, this is where I get pedantic, so bear with me. What the heck made you investigate having Faith in something in the first place? Why did you bother going down the route of examination? You could have just left it all alone and said - 'don't know, don't csre, am not interested.' But you didn't. You CHOSE to look into matters closely, do a bit of research, read stuff, listen to people, enter indo dialogue and discussion and see what happened and what made people tick. Now at this point, you did have a choice. You could have exercised faith and said - "OK, people who believe in God have what they consider to be proof, but of course it involves Faith, which means putting our trust in something "bigger" than ourselves. I'm gonna go that way, because they all seem very happy and fulfilled." Instead, your evaluation of what you heard, saw, spoke about and thought about, made you DECIDE instead to say - "OK, there are people who believe in God, and they have what they consider to be proof, but of course it involves Faith which involves putting their Trust in something they believe is much bigger than themselves. I don't buy it, and am convinced I can be just as happy and fulfilled." See my point? You exercised Choice. Which involves use of free Will. Link to post Share on other sites
axisdenied Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Yup. Why? because I've chosen to respond to this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
ed-205 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Yes, I believe without a doubt that we all have free will to decide and act as we choose to. Whether we use it or not might be another matter... There was a time when I had Chronic Suppressed Anger, and even the most minor of irritations would send me into a sputtering fit of rage. One day, something bad happened (I can't even remember what it was now) that made me so angry I could feel myself reaching Critical Mass, and seconds before I was about to blow-up, I had an odd thought... "What rule says I *have* to get angry over this? What terrible thing would happen if I simply decided to *NOT* get angry, this time?..." My anger suddenly evaporated so quickly that it took me by surprise, and I actually began to laugh out loud at myself! How could I have been so stupid for so long to have never realized that I *always* had the free will to make that simple decision, and my life is better because of it. I still get angry from time to time, I just learned to deal with it more effectively now. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 The psyche is extremely complex. Our subconscious mind plays an important role in what we decide or do not decide to do. Seeing as we can not control our subconscious mind, does it not follow that our free will is not as free as we might think? Link to post Share on other sites
disgracian Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 You could have just left it all alone and said - 'don't know, don't csre, am not interested.' But you didn't. You CHOSE to look into matters closely, do a bit of research, read stuff, listen to people, enter indo dialogue and discussion and see what happened and what made people tick. Or I was compelled, perhaps out of curiosity, perhaps because I am a deterministic biological machine. This is the point where the conversations tend to go around in circles because you are assuming that choice is the (or a) cause of our actions (or inactions): that because somebody did one thing and not another that it must then validate the concept of free will. It may not be the case. See my point? I'm afraid I don't. Maybe it's because it's late here and I'm tired. Cheers, D. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Or I was compelled, perhaps out of curiosity, perhaps because I am a deterministic biological machine. Hmmm.... elaborate.....?? This is the point where the conversations tend to go around in circles because you are assuming that choice is the (or a) cause of our actions (or inactions): What else could it be? [or] that because somebody did one thing and not another that it must then validate the concept of free will. It may not be the case. What else could it be....if not that? I just want you to understand I'm not being deliberately argumentative here. I really am utterly convinced we do have Free Will from the instant we are able to have cognisant thoughts..... Oh. Sleep well, by the way. Link to post Share on other sites
ed-205 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 ...Or, you could choose to disagree... Never argue with a Buddhist... It's like making faces in a mirror! Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 ...Or, you could choose to disagree... Never argue with a Buddhist... It's like making faces in a mirror! It's even worse when they are BOTH Buddhists! Link to post Share on other sites
ed-205 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 It's even worse when they are BOTH Buddhists! I've heard that they have debates that last for decades! Seriously, I mean that as a compliment. Most Buddhists I have known seem to possess a clarity of thought that I truly admire, and a desire to instill that trait in others. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Ooooh.... I don't want to go off-topic here.... Buddhists don't 'desire to instil' anything in others. You'll find that Buddhists don't proselytise. Just as it is encouraged by the Good Book for Christians to spread the word, conversely, the Buddha exhorted his followers to be 'Lamps unto themselves'... In other words, Buddhists have to concentrate on getting their own house in order, before wishing or hoping to influence others. Buddhists don't tend to speak, explain, elaborate or teach, unless specifically requested to do so.... It is considered a life better lived, if they 'show' rather than 'tell'.... For a Buddhist, it's a case of 'Don't do as I say, do as I do'. Ok! B.T.T!! Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 So was your explanation and elaboration and teaching requested? Or perhaps it was almost proselytism? Just kidding! Link to post Share on other sites
ed-205 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Geishawhelk: That's pretty much the point I wanted to make, although I am a bit clumsy about it. Buddhism, to me, seems to be all about individual free thought *and* free will, especially since they seem to value that in others, no matter what else they may believe. In that respect, I don't think we've strayed off topic at all! Link to post Share on other sites
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