Career Women......

[dannydrifter]

I don't think it's fair or correct to say that a career woman is aggressive or highly competitive, in fact if I were a guy I would try & seek out a career woman for myself. I am 26-year-old career woman. I do well for my age financially, own a house, and at the same time, am very well-respected at my job and in my field of work. I am not highly-competitive or aggressive. I am very down to earth and fun and have an immensely good work ethic...but at the same time, I would not consider myself to be a "workaholic." I want the family life, I want to get married...and I believe it IS possible to be both a wife and mother AND a career woman. Ambition should not be a turn-off. Nothing wrong with a woman who can make a good respectable living.

 

You're right too.. not all career women are like that. You sound like an exception, and definitely there are successful ladies out there like doctors and lawyers who are good wives and mothers of course. I think for me (and OP) the general career woman isn't a good personality match.

[dannydrifter]

Most were intensely career oriented as well. My ex-H made Executive VP before he hit 30, so you can imagine how driven he was and still is. This appears to be the type of man I mesh well with. Highly confident and intensely focused.

 

Yea, the ones who make loads of money and drive nice cars right? lol.. j/k

[Kamille]

It's good that you know what works and doesn't work for you... But:

 

Good topic, and I agree with you completely. Especially what you said about them being too competitive. While I respect any woman who is career oriented, I don't particularly find them attractive at all nor do I extend them more respect than I would a lesser career oriented woman. In my experiences, career oriented women are much more of a challenge to develop a relationship with. Then when you are in a relationship, wife or otherwise, you will always have to deal with their work infatuations and activities. This includes attending after work functions, socializing with co-workers after hours, etc. Then you have their "professional" male co-workers, and it always seems there is at least 1 guy in ever workplace who knows your wife is married but he still choose to pursue her. Actually the more I think about "career women" the more I am turned off.

 

 

How is that different then what a woman will go through if she has a career oriented partner?

 

I think this topic is skirting a double-standard.

[Rooster_DAR]

A little off topic, but relevant.

 

I am a career man, but I have good integrity and maturity and would not cheat or runaround on my S/O. It's too bad that people let a little money or fame get to their heads (look at celebrities), as I stated before it seems many people just lose their soul when they gain higher education and success, but not all do.

 

Cheers!

[dannydrifter]

It's good that you know what works and doesn't work for you... But:

 

 

 

 

How is that different then what a woman will go through if she has a career oriented partner?

 

I think this topic is skirting a double-standard.

 

Oh I don't disagree with you there. Generally speaking, the same qualities that make career women unattractive to some men applies the other way around as well.

[audrey_1]

It's good that you know what works and doesn't work for you... But:

 

How is that different then what a woman will go through if she has a career oriented partner?

 

I think this topic is skirting a double-standard.

 

This reminds me of something my mother said, that she would never marry another white collar man ever again (meaning someone like my dad:o).

 

And she didn't. My step-dad has always worked with his hands, been a blue-collar, foreman kinda guy, and he loves her dearly. He is noticeably more emotionally available than my father ever was. Coincidence?

 

I worked hard to get through school, and I've worked hard at my profession, and I'm confident in my own skin with these things. For a long time, being in a real relationship with a man wasn't a priority, which was evident by the types of men who drifted in and out of my life.

 

I admittedly wasn't ready to reveal the more nurturing, sensitive side of myself; it was all "business." This is true.

 

But I do want that emotional, sexual, intellectual connection. I can support myself financially, yes, but I do hope that the universe will smile on me with the right person to complement me in all other ways now.

 

Please universe... :love:

[fral945]

fral, you've not only misquoted parts of what I said, you've also not understood that I was agreeing with norajane. Go back and reread what she wrote. I couldn't agree more with what she's posted.

 

I re-read and I didn't misquote you but I may be misunderstanding. You state you agree with her, then right away say you will never be dependent on anyone. She acknowledges dependency, you don't.

 

Help me out here. If you depend on someone you love (which was part of norajane's post that you stated you completely agreed with) isn't that by definition a dependency?

[Trialbyfire]

Yea, the ones who make loads of money and drive nice cars right? lol.. j/k

I ask less of a mate, then what I bring to the table. Pretty darn reasonable, I think...

 

I re-read and I didn't misquote you but I may be misunderstanding. You state you agree with her, then right away say you will never be dependent on anyone. She acknowledges dependency, you don't.

 

Help me out here. If you depend on someone you love (which was part of norajane's post that you stated you completely agreed with) isn't that by definition a dependency?

Notice the comment about emotional commitment? That covers the entire give and take process. In giving emotional commitment, it means I want to be with a mate. It doesn't mean I can't walk away, if emotional commitment isn't given or is withdrawn. A dependency is one where you can never walk away, since they provide you with a service you can't do without.

 

Yes, you've mangled my comments by removing components of them. Reread it again on a comparison basis.

[fral945]

Notice the comment about emotional commitment? That covers the entire give and take process. In giving emotional commitment, it means I want to be with a mate. It doesn't mean I can't walk away, if emotional commitment isn't given or is withdrawn. A dependency is one where you can never walk away, since they provide you with a service you can't do without.

 

Ok, your viewpoint is now clear.

[lovestruck818]

Sorry, but nobody can vote for Palin.

 

It's McCain or Obama.

 

/political thread derail

 

Well, technically a vote for McCain is a vote for Palin...given McCain's age aand health...

 

but, yeah

[Dominique]

I ask less of a mate, then what I bring to the table. Pretty darn reasonable, I think...

 

 

Notice the comment about emotional commitment? That covers the entire give and take process. In giving emotional commitment, it means I want to be with a mate. It doesn't mean I can't walk away, if emotional commitment isn't given or is withdrawn. A dependency is one where you can never walk away, since they provide you with a service you can't do without.

 

Yes, you've mangled my comments by removing components of them. Reread it again on a comparison basis.

 

 

You might do well to lighten up a bit. One gets the impression from you that relations between men and women are all business all the time, all weights and measures, keeping score... All this hair-splitting detail and verbiage.

 

The only thing one must "bring to the table" is true love, exemplary respect, a sense of the big picture, and reason. Career, no-career is all secondary. It is the character and personality of the person.

 

DOM

[Trialbyfire]

You might do well to lighten up a bit. One gets the impression from you that relations between men and women are all business all the time, all weights and measures, keeping score... All this hair-splitting detail and verbiage.

 

The only thing one must "bring to the table" is true love, exemplary respect, a sense of the big picture, and reason. Career, no-career is all secondary. It is the character and personality of the person.

 

DOM

No serious career, huh?

 

A long-term relationship is driven by more than sunshine and lollipops.

[Rooster_DAR]

The only thing one must "bring to the table" is true love, exemplary respect, a sense of the big picture, and reason. Career, no-career is all secondary. It is the character and personality of the person.

DOM

 

I agree with this pretty much.

 

But in all reality people, it's also about personal preference. If Jane Doe decides she wants to only date white collar men, then dammit that is her right. If Joe Bloe decides he would rather date a blue collar person or stay at home wife, then good for him.

 

I have a good career myself, but I'm not shallow as to not date or marry someone based on their career status, as a matter of fact, I prefer good character and integrity above all else. If I meet a successful woman who meets my expectations of a good person, then I would be happy to date her as well, and would not be offended is she made more than I.

 

Cheers!

[Trialbyfire]

I agree with this pretty much.

 

But in all reality people, it's also about personal preference. If Jane Doe decides she wants to only date white collar men, then dammit that is her right. If Joe Bloe decides he would rather date a blue collar person or stay at home wife, then good for him.

 

I have a good career myself, but I'm not shallow as to not date or marry someone based on their career status, as a matter of fact, I prefer good character and integrity above all else. If I meet a successful woman who meets my expectations of a good person, then I would be happy to date her as well, and would not be offended is she made more than I.

 

Cheers!

Has this worked for you so far, Rooster?

[Rooster_DAR]

Has this worked for you so far, Rooster?

 

I don't understand what your asking, I was not providing a solution, just an opinion.

[a4a]

Has this worked for you so far, Rooster?

 

Well with most 15 year olds you really don't have to worry about their careers dictating their personal life.... So it probaby works for him regardless.

 

I am so so sorry ..... but I couldn't help it...... omg I tried to not reply.... but I have a disorder..... similar to tourettes......

[Rooster_DAR]

Well with most 15 year olds you really don't have to worry about their careers dictating their personal life.... So it probaby works for him regardless.

 

I am so so sorry ..... but I couldn't help it...... omg I tried to not reply.... but I have a disorder..... similar to tourettes......

 

 

Great! A real Bob Hopless.

[Eve]

But I do want that emotional, sexual, intellectual connection. I can support myself financially, yes, but I do hope that the universe will smile on me with the right person to complement me in all other ways now.

 

I think the whole problem could be solved by the creation of robot husbands. Then we would not have to worry about one single thing ever again..

[audrey_1]

I think the whole problem could be solved by the creation of robot husbands. Then we would not have to worry about one single thing ever again..

 

A Stepford husband doesn't really appeal to me, and I already have a robotic penis, which only goes so far.

 

I prefer the real thing.

[Eve]

A Stepford husband doesn't really appeal to me, and I already have a robotic penis, which only goes so far.

 

I prefer the real thing.

 

.. I am talking about high tech robot husbands. Someone has GOT to come up with a suitable version sooner or later. Maybe we are just projecting our needs towards an ideal which doesnt really exist? Even the happiest married women do not deny that really their husbands are a burden in many respects and having a career is in many ways more satisfying than their marraige? Marraige really is a security blanket for raising children is it not? Men know this deep down and so are always trying to 'possess' us in one way or another..

 

.. Just playing devils advocate.

[Siciliana]

I was a stay-at-home-Mom and am now an accountant working for a CPA firm and working towards my CPA.

 

I stayed home with my daughter until she decided she wanted to go to school. She was about 3.5 when she made that decision, and while I cried the whole day the first time she went, it was something she had been begging me to do. We took her on tours of facilities and she always wanted to stay. I knew it was time, it was a matter of me letting go. She just turned 4 yesterday.

 

Now, I attend school two nights a week. I do miss some family time with her, but I see her every day and I make sure she knows that I love her and I am doing this for her. I am actually not in this to have one helluva career.... I am doing it so I can have my daughter set for college and whatever else it is I can acquire financially to pass on to her once I am gone. I don't want her to have to struggle the way my mother and I have. She deserves better and is worth the sacrifice I make using my personal time to study to essentially make more money. If I am not at work or school, I am with her.

 

I didn't become interested in becoming an accountant until I had my daughter. Children are an amazing motivator to become the best you can be... for them. I was doing it for the greater good of the whole. I wanted my Ex to not have to work as hard, too. I wanted to be able to earn enough money so that he could get a job doing something that he LIKED, instead of working a good paying job that he hated.

 

My marriage dissolved because of my ambition to become a CPA. My Ex did not like the fact that I was becoming more educated than him. He didn't like that I was going to have more earning power than him. He resented my ambition and drive. It became a huge wedge between us, but, he never listened to me when I told him that it was ultimately for the WHOLE family. Stupid ego.

 

Since my divorce, I have become even more driven. I have decided to attemp law school post CPA. I want to be a tax attorney. I, however, will not let that get in the way of recitals, games, plays, birthdays, holidays, and all the times that are essential to my daughter and her up-bringing. I believe I can balance both.

 

As far as being assertive, aggresive, dominant and alll that.... well, that has nothing to do with being a "career woman". I have been that all my life. I think that is sheer personality. As one poster indicated, she is nothing of the sort and still career oriented.

 

I will say, though, that people who have no ambition have always been a turn-off to me, even when I wanted to be a house-wife for the rest of enternity. I have no idea how people can just....be.... and not strive for some sort of personal growth. It doesn't always have to be about career and education... but, I just don't get these people who come home from work and veg-out infront of the TV watching stuff that just numbs the mind. There is a vast world of many things that each of us has yet to explore and encounter. I cannot die knowing that I wasted my life watching ESPN and the LifeTime Channel when I could have done something to expand my knowledge, understanding and experience within the world around me.

[fral945]

He didn't like that I was going to have more earning power than him. He resented my ambition and drive.

 

Did you know he was that type of man going in?

 

As far as being assertive, aggresive, dominant and alll that.... well, that has nothing to do with being a "career woman". I have been that all my life. I think that is sheer personality. As one poster indicated, she is nothing of the sort and still career oriented.

 

I see a lot of women here getting defensive (just using you as an example, Siciliana). I didn't originally create this thread to attack working or career women, but apparently I've touched some nerves.

 

I think a better term for what I'm describing is a "careerist" (which one of the other posters mentioned). I simply wanted to know if this is appealing to men.

[Rooster_DAR]

I will say, though, that people who have no ambition have always been a turn-off to me, even when I wanted to be a house-wife for the rest of enternity. I have no idea how people can just....be.... and not strive for some sort of personal growth. It doesn't always have to be about career and education... but, I just don't get these people who come home from work and veg-out infront of the TV watching stuff that just numbs the mind. There is a vast world of many things that each of us has yet to explore and encounter. I cannot die knowing that I wasted my life watching ESPN and the LifeTime Channel when I could have done something to expand my knowledge, understanding and experience within the world around me.

 

I could not agree more. My EX fiance used to do that, she never wanted to do anything else much and she had a law degree.

[Siciliana]

Did you know he was that type of man going in?

 

 

 

I see a lot of women here getting defensive (just using you as an example, Siciliana). I didn't originally create this thread to attack working or career women, but apparently I've touched some nerves.

 

I think a better term for what I'm describing is a "careerist" (which one of the other posters mentioned). I simply wanted to know if this is appealing to men.

 

I did not know this about him going into it. I would not have entered into the union knowing he was not going to support my hopes, dreams and goals.

 

It does touch a nerve... you have to understand that it wasn't that long ago when we still didn't have the right to vote. And, though it was not something me or my mother bore withness to in our lifetimes, women still feel the effect of being a "minority" and this is a prime example of that.

 

Where I live (in the dirty south of the US), women are supposed to be dumb, barefoot, subserviant and quiet. Believe it or not, the female status of a "minority" thrives just as much as racism does in certain parts of this country. So, when this subject is broached, I take a stand. (insert assertiveness, independence, agression and dominance here)

 

This subject is the basis for the dissolution of my marriage... of my life. It is something I have to deal with, probably forever, because I have a child from the union. I will forever have to answer her questions as to why her father and I are no longer married. So, I am sorry if I am defensive or take a vehement stand on my position. You have to understand just how greatly this has impacted my life.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read my words and listen to me, I appreciate it.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I listed in what capacity - affection, emotional, intellectual, and physical intimacy, love, companionship, friendship, fun, every other capacity.

 

I have a near genetic compulsion to provide. I think many of us men suffer from that... must have helped us survive back in the day.

 

Perhaps that is something to consider when your choosing how you want a man to be in your life.

 

We had a 50,000 page thread about that last week. My answer is they don't have to. It's a courtesy and a treat. But if a man asks to take a woman out on a date, he is asking to take her out, which implies paying. Just like if you said you wanted to take a friend out for their birthday...taking someone out means paying. Meeting up is different - that's not taking someone out on a date.

 

You didn't answer my question: what is so terrible about wanting a man instead of needing him?

 

It's not terrible. However, there is a huge difference in how you treat something that you need vs. how you treat something that you want. If I need a car, I will put in the $ and work to make sure it runs. If I want a car, then I don't always have to put in that effort, because it doesnt matter if it stops working... I didn't need it.