I wonder if he'll answer me honestly about how often he sleeps with his wife

[KismetGirl]

he is a cheater and a liar. Why would you think he'll answer you honestly?

 

And 5 years? isn't it about time to find your own man?

 

Woah Bish, appropriate handle you got there.

 

Anyway, I've dated other people in that time frame. It's been on and off with Mr. MM. In there , there was a whole year of not seeing or speaking to each other. I've never forgone dating other men to sit around and wait for MM.

 

yes, I love MM. Yes, I wonder what it would be like sometimes if we were together, and it's only the last ten months that we've been sleeping together out of the 5 years I've known him, but I don't sit around waiting for him. I have met other men, I've dated other men, I've gone out with other men, what have you. I rarely meet other men that I like enough. I date other people, I go out with other people, but I don't tend to like most of them lately. I dated someone else for nearly that whole year that I didnt talk to MM. When Im single, I seem to fall back into a pattern to speaking to MM. Just how it goes sometimes. But , you've veered off the topic at hand, so please, if you haven't got anything productive to say with respect to that and are only here to offer your opinion that I need to "find my own man" , I respectfully request you take it to another thread that is more relevant. Thanks.

[KismetGirl]

I think her question was not...how can I find my own man?

 

While I recognize that you have been cheated on, everyone has not felt your pain.

 

 

Kismet, I still think that leaving this issue alone is best. You have had enough history with him, and you have a pretty good idea of what his past with her has been. The question seems more of an insecurity regarding the two of you than it does a curiosity regarding his marriage and sex life.

 

I predict nothing good from such a discussion.

 

Thank you, James, for keeping it relevant :-)

 

Anyway, you're probably right. I'll probably just be unhappy if things HAVE changed for the better with them. Can't blame my curiosity though, I guess. It's both an insecurity with us (which can't be helped....im knowingly sharing him with someone else after all) , as well as a curiousity regarding his marraige and sex life.

 

I guess having sex makes you want more sex, but it doesn't necessarily mean his wife responds to that increased desire. Meh....Im probably better off not knowing and should just enjoy it for what it is at the moment.....speaking of which , Im supposed to go ring him at work in a few minutes. I think he's stopping in tomo....

[Ronni_W]

I guess if he said "never" or said that it was the same or less than before ... it would be some sort of assuage to the ego to know that at the least, I get more of SOMETHING than she does from him, because hell, she gets everything else from him.

What I'm reading is that you, your mind, body and soul, are not being satisfied with how much (or little, actually) you are getting back from this relationship.

Which, really and at the end of the day, probably isn't so much about whether or not he is making love to his wife and how often(?)

 

Your 'Inner Voice' is starting to rebel at the imbalance, is another way I might put it. And your conscious mind is trying (desperately?) to find something to make that Inner Voice shut the eff up, and stop complaining about matters.

 

Maybe?

 

Another possibility is that maybe the way he (doesn't) talk about her has had the effect of turning her into the "big, sacred" mystery or taboo, in some other part of your mind? And it is almost human nature to just want to find out as much as we can, about something we are being messaged is totally "off limits" or beyond our comprehension.

 

I do agree that sleeping in the same bed does NOT at all mean that sex is happening in that bed -- and I speak purely from personal experience, on that . But. I would tend to err on the side of caution, and assume that he would tell me what he thinks I want to hear, about his other sexual relationship(s).

[KismetGirl]

What I'm reading is that you, your mind, body and soul, are not being satisfied with how much (or little, actually) you are getting back from this relationship.

Which, really and at the end of the day, probably isn't so much about whether or not he is making love to his wife and how often(?)

 

Your 'Inner Voice' is starting to rebel at the imbalance, is another way I might put it. And your conscious mind is trying (desperately?) to find something to make that Inner Voice shut the eff up, and stop complaining about matters.

 

Maybe?

 

Another possibility is that maybe the way he (doesn't) talk about her has had the effect of turning her into the "big, sacred" mystery or taboo, in some other part of your mind? And it is almost human nature to just want to find out as much as we can, about something we are being messaged is totally "off limits" or beyond our comprehension.

 

I do agree that sleeping in the same bed does NOT at all mean that sex is happening in that bed -- and I speak purely from personal experience, on that . But. I would tend to err on the side of caution, and assume that he would tell me what he thinks I want to hear, about his other sexual relationship(s).

 

Oh Ronnie, my inner voice has been pissed off at this inbalance for a while now, but for some reason my stubborn self just won't let go. Ive tried, weakly, to just not call him , thinking maybe he just won't contact me, but he always does and then I lose all resolve to stay away. I suppose that while Im still single and stressed with so many other aspects of my life, he gives me this oasis of calm, brief spurts of happiness that seem to outshine all the other misery it causes inbetween meetings.

 

I'd never ask him to leave his W. If he ever did that I'd want him to do it because he's unhappy with the way things are and he's decided it's better to leave. But the reality is that he has three small children and they are the most important thing to him, and he's just not ready to imagine a reality in which he doesn't live with them and see them every day and put them to bed every night. Maybe if I'd met him earlier or later, but Ive met him at the time in his life when the family expanded newly, the kids are small, and he's just not ready to change all that, no matter how right we are for each other. It's almost irrelevant. Maybe if this was some romantic movie , but in real life, I think it takes a very very long time for anyone to make that kind of decision. I think by the time he decided that, I'd be long gone and hopefully in a relationship with someone, you know, single. Im only 25, I dont intend to sit around until im 40 waiting for his kids to get older....that would be a waste of youth. If someone else comes along that gives me that spark of chemistry, I'd gladly go with it, I just haven't met many people that do that. besides MM, I've maybe met one, and he lived in another country and we couldnt handle the distance after a while.

 

Such is life.....

[bish]

I think her question was not...how can I find my own man?

 

While I recognize that you have been cheated on, everyone has not felt your pain.

 

 

Then by all means, counsel her in her quest to boff a married man.

[JamesM]

Then by all means, counsel her in her quest to boff a married man.

 

It is no longer a quest...she is doing it.

 

As for counseling her, I simply answer questions.

 

If I had been betrayed, I doubt I could do it at all. Even still sometimes here, I have felt the anguish and pain of the BS and have had a difficult time sticking to the actual question.

[KismetGirl]

It is no longer a quest...she is doing it.

 

As for counseling her, I simply answer questions.

 

If I had been betrayed, I doubt I could do it at all. Even still sometimes here, I have felt the anguish and pain of the BS and have had a difficult time sticking to the actual question.

 

 

No worries james. You nor anyone else is counseling me to go boff anyone. I do it of my own inclination. You've been kind enough to stick to the original thread topic. Cheers.

[Lizzie60]

I will answer you based on my own experience with many MMs along the years.

 

I very much doubt, (if he's really into you and he knows how much you are into him) that he will tell you the truth.. maybe he will.. maybe not.. no one knows that. He might NOT like this question at all.

 

From my experience, as I say, he is probably telling you the truth if he says he is having sex with her every month or so... MOST MMs are in a very boring and-or sexless life..

 

I had, and still have many MMs on the go... we talk about their sex life.. and they are being honest with me.. they have no reasons not to.. and, eventhough, some have a good-average sex life.. MOST don't.

 

One of them says everything is fine, except she refuses oral sex, in their 13 yr marriage he never had a BJ...

 

They each have their own reasons to seek sex outside.. but the most common is a lack of it...

 

So I would think that he is in a boring/sexless relationship.

[KismetGirl]

I will answer you based on my own experience with many MMs along the years.

 

I very much doubt, (if he's really into you and he knows how much you are into him) that he will tell you the truth.. maybe he will.. maybe not.. no one knows that. He might NOT like this question at all.

 

From my experience, as I say, he is probably telling you the truth if he says he is having sex with her every month or so... MOST MMs are in a very boring and-or sexless life..

 

I had, and still have many MMs on the go... we talk about their sex life.. and they are being honest with me.. they have no reasons not to.. and, eventhough, some have a good-average sex life.. MOST don't.

 

One of them says everything is fine, except she refuses oral sex, in their 13 yr marriage he never had a BJ...

 

They each have their own reasons to seek sex outside.. but the most common is a lack of it...

 

So I would think that he is in a boring/sexless relationship.

 

 

Lizzie

 

Im inclined to agree with you, at least when it comes to my own MM. im sure there are many who have a normal sex life, others dont. But he has never had a reason to lie to me about anything, ever. He said a long time before we hooked up that there was no "spark" between them. He never had to "woo" me or convince me to have sex or hook up. I was totally ready to sleep with him right away after that first night he kissed me, I had had a crush on him long before anything happened with us. He was the one who held off on sex for quite a long time. We fooled around, yes, and the first time I went down on him he'd exclaimed that that was the first BJ he'd gotten in years, since before he was married, and he had no reason to say such things. I was already doing it regardless of what he said. Just like I'd sleep with him even if he hadn't mentioned a lack of sex life. It's not like I was "lured" into feeling bad for him and that's why I hooked up with him. I wouldnt fall for such things anyway, I slept with him because I liked him. This relationship may not be healthy because of its basis, but he's never had a reason to lie to me about anything. He avoids topics because frankly, talking about his wife while we're in bed together or hanging out otherwise is both disrespectful to me and her, and just plain uncomfortable.

 

It makes more sense in situations where the guy is trying to seduce the woman, make her feel sorry for his plight, etc. I liked him from the moment I met him, and only held back because I found out he was married and didn't think , therefor, that anything was possible. i'd like to say I held back purely for morality reasons, but I'd be lying. I just didnt think HE'D stray. Guess I should have known....I'd never been with a MM before him, but he was obviously missing something in his marriage the way he used to talk about it when we were on a friends basis. He honestly had himself convinced that sex every 6 weeks was normal for a married couple, thats "just how it becomes".

[dannydrifter]

Kismet girl, I bet he isn't having much sex with his wife based on your last post. What I would be afraid of with a guy like this, is him being involved with another "girlfriend" like you. He cheated on his wife, so he probably won't think twice to do it with another woman either. Find a nice single guy (like me) who you will not have to share and will be YOURS

[Lizzie60]

Kismet girl, I bet he isn't having much sex with his wife based on your last post. What I would be afraid of with a guy like this, is him being involved with another "girlfriend" like you. He cheated on his wife, so he probably won't think twice to do it with another woman either. Find a nice single guy (like me) who you will not have to share and will be YOURS

 

 

It's very uncommon for a MM to have several OWs.. they have a hard time dealing with one (secrecy, etc.) do you honestly think he would have more than one.. I don't think so...

[Owl]

It's very uncommon for a MM to have several OWs.. they have a hard time dealing with one (secrecy, etc.) do you honestly think he would have more than one.. I don't think so...

 

Lizzie, you've been here a while. We've seen SEVERAL incidents where it turned out that MM had more than one OW. Its entirely possible.

 

You've mentioned before that the MM don't have any reason to lie to you about whether or not they have sex with their wives, but you've also agreed that its entirely possible/probable that they tell this lie to THEMSELVES...to justify to THEMSELVES what they're doing with you.

 

I think its entirely possible that MM in this case is lying about it. He hasn't mentioned it in a long time because he doesn't want to have to tell the lie again...he's avoiding that conflict.

 

But I'm still curious...so what if he IS bouncing his wife all around the room every night...how does that change the situation for you, Kismetgirl?

[KismetGirl]

Kismet girl, I bet he isn't having much sex with his wife based on your last post. What I would be afraid of with a guy like this, is him being involved with another "girlfriend" like you. He cheated on his wife, so he probably won't think twice to do it with another woman either. Find a nice single guy (like me) who you will not have to share and will be YOURS

 

 

Lol, danny my dear, I would much prefer a nice single man such as yourself, it's just hard to find one I like! Dammit, I am a good catch, but I can't just settle for someone just because THEY like ME now can I? :-)

 

With respect to the rest of your comment, he hasn't got another girlfriend, trust me. If he's not at work, or with me, he's at home. Three small kids makes it hard to get away, and he's too paranoid about getting caught to risk it with a new girl. He's sooo not slick, not one of those "player types" at all, which is partially why I fell for him. what can I say, I like that dorky, intelligent boyish type :-) The way he behaved when we first got together was like a little kid, all excited to be kissing someone new, someone that acted excited to be kissing him back, you know? Not the type of calm, confidant reaction you'd get out of a man who is a serial cheater and does this all the time. He's far from it. He actually asks me all the time why I bother with him when I'm "gorgeous and intelligent and fantastic and can do so much better". He may love his W, but I know he is more attracted to me in a very different way. Me and her are polar opposites in the looks department. She's pretty in that plain sort of way. You wouldn't notice her walking down the street. All American girl next door, Mousy blond short hair, kind of boring. Average figure. I'm more "exotic" looking, as he describes it, dark waist length hair, green eyes, angelina jolie lips, very curvy hourglass figure (seriously, I've never met someone who seems to love my body as much as MM, he just kisses it head to toe with this awed look on his face, and frankly I never thought it was that perfect!). Im very independant, Im very intelligent (aside from my propensity to spell atrociously, but thats due to not paying attention ;-) ). His wife is a SAHM (and there's nothing wrong with that, but she's just not very independant and relies on him to support the whole house), and while I plan to have a family of my own and get married, I'm also very driven, and am going to medical school next year. She's more plain, sweet and typical girl-next-door. I'm more outgoing, free spirited, sensual and definitely an intensely sexual person, but Im also kind and caring. He comes over and I get at least four or five rounds out of him before he leaves. Im 100% positve he isn't getting that kind of intensity at home. Me and her are very different, and maybe that's why he sticks around, he gets something different, maybe it's something he always wanted and never knew it, who knows. Christ this paragraph makes me seem like a conceited wanker, but Im just trying to emphasize our differences, me and her. Im not saying she is bad or ugly or stupid. I've seen her and met her and I think she is very sweet and seems like a very nice woman and isn't unappealing physically, but Im just emphasizing that me and her are VASTLY different in every way. So you start to wonder why is it that he can't seem to let go of me.

 

He gets jealous when I go out on dates with other men, and I tell him about all of them. If nothing else, we have great sex and no reason to lie to one another. If i was asking him to change things for me, or asking for more, i could imagine reasons to start feeding me lies, but I don't. I just let us enjoy the time we have together. The emotional turmoil I feel is entirely in my own head, I don't tell him about any of it or how deeply I feel for him (except for out here on LS in a million posts venting my frustrations, of course) :bunny:

 

:bunny:( don't ask , I really like that bouncing bunny thing....)

[KismetGirl]

It's very uncommon for a MM to have several OWs.. they have a hard time dealing with one (secrecy, etc.) do you honestly think he would have more than one.. I don't think so...

 

 

Its true. Its hard enough keeping one OW a secret, let alone having time for more than one. Especially with my MM, he doesnt have some job where he travels alot or stays at the office late. It's practically impossible to find time for me alot fo the time, and one of the reasons we do is because I live two blocks from his office and get home early from work some days so he sneaks over on his way home!

[KismetGirl]

But I'm still curious...so what if he IS bouncing his wife all around the room every night...how does that change the situation for you, Kismetgirl?

 

Owl, to be honest, I dont know. I obviously wouldn't LIKE to hear that, but I have pondered it as a possibility, no matter what his words and actions tell me, there's always that chance. No one knows anything for sure unless I were standing in their bedroom watching right?

 

But, I guess if he came to me and said "ok, i will admit it, me and my wife are having sex every day/every week/etc" it might turn me off a bit. I don't know if I'd be able to hook up with him having this image of he and her going at it every day. It's really hard to say....all speculation, I obviously wouldn't LIKE to hear that, but beyond that its' really hard to imagine how I'd react. I guess that's part of the reason I want to ask so badly....

[Owl]

So that's something you might want to work hard to process through BEFORE you ask him this...

 

...what will you do, depending on what answers he comes back with, and how much you believe those answers.

[dannydrifter]

Lol, danny my dear, I would much prefer a nice single man such as yourself, it's just hard to find one I like! Dammit, I am a good catch, but I can't just settle for someone just because THEY like ME now can I? :-)

 

Well you should slightly lower your standard! At the least, don't settle for a guy who is married! I lose immediate interest in pursuing a woman if I discover she has a husband, or boyfriend. Personally for me, I want to uphold some respect and value for these other fellows as I wouldn't want someone to chase after my woman either.

 

All American girl next door, Mousy blond short hair, kind of boring. Average figure. I'm more "exotic" looking, as he describes it, dark waist length hair, green eyes, angelina jolie lips, very curvy hourglass figure (seriously, I've never met someone who seems to love my body as much as MM, he just kisses it head to toe with this awed look on his face, and frankly I never thought it was that perfect!). Im very independant, Im very intelligent (aside from my propensity to spell atrociously, but thats due to not paying attention ;-) ). His wife is a SAHM ........

 

Man, I feel like I am falling in love just reading your description! Ok, from the sounds of it then he probably isn't with some other lady. What I am thinking is that he and his wife aren't really doing it too much, but he is one of those types of married men who is scared of his wife and also scared of emotional pain and breaking her heart. This is why he continually tried to work on the marriage, doesn't leave her, etc.

 

Such a nice lady! Wish I lived closer to you, I would make you forget about this guy within about 1 week.

[Lizzie60]

Lizzie, you've been here a while. We've seen SEVERAL incidents where it turned out that MM had more than one OW. Its entirely possible.

 

You've mentioned before that the MM don't have any reason to lie to you about whether or not they have sex with their wives, but you've also agreed that its entirely possible/probable that they tell this lie to THEMSELVES...to justify to THEMSELVES what they're doing with you.

 

I think its entirely possible that MM in this case is lying about it. He hasn't mentioned it in a long time because he doesn't want to have to tell the lie again...he's avoiding that conflict.

 

But I'm still curious...so what if he IS bouncing his wife all around the room every night...how does that change the situation for you, Kismetgirl?

 

Of course .. everything is possible.. but very unlikely... IMO.

 

It is not common for a MM to have several OWs.. sorry (possible but rare)

 

I still think that it's entirely possible that MM in this case is telling the truth...

 

We don't know him and we're not in his shoes.. so my opinion is just as good as yours..

 

Cheers!!!

[Owl]

Of course .. everything is possible.. but very unlikely... IMO.

 

It is not common for a MM to have several OWs.. sorry (possible but rare)

 

I still think that it's entirely possible that MM in this case is telling the truth...

 

We don't know him and we're not in his shoes.. so my opinion is just as good as yours..

 

Cheers!!!

 

Perhaps far better...you've got far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far more experience in being "with" MM's than I will ever have! But I think all that....errr....experience...also leaves your view biased towards accepting the situation and what they say.

 

If you didn't believe there was something special about your interactions with them during your...second job...it would be a lot harder to rationalize what you do.

[Lizzie60]

Perhaps far better...you've got far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far more experience in being "with" MM's than I will ever have! But I think all that....errr....experience...also leaves your view biased towards accepting the situation and what they say.

 

If you didn't believe there was something special about your interactions with them during your...second job...it would be a lot harder to rationalize what you do.

 

Fact is.. these guys are 'Mr tout le monde' (ordinary guys, like you) and I think I am far more knowledgeable than you are when it comes to MMs.. ... it doesn't leaves my views biased as you say.. these guys are great people.. great fathers... in all branches of society.. so I think I am entitle to my opinions regardless of my second job and what you think.. and I think I'm far better 'placed' to give such opinions..

 

Cheers!

[JamesM]

I know this is off on a tangent, but I have to agree with Lizzie. It is highly unlikely that this MM (and most MMs) has any other woman. Unless Kismet is way off on her description of what occurred during their relationship, then it is what it is.

 

It IS hard to have one affair let alone more...unless the guy is a rich businessman who rarely spends time at home. Personally for me, it is hard to imagine fitting one affair into my life let alone more. The ones that fit more than one do so because they are on the road as a salesman, etc. and can visit each when they are in that city.

 

Could he cheat on Kismet and his wife? Always possible but not likely. I have seen so many MMs and OM/OWs here that act as if it is cheating to betray their affair partner...even though they are cheating on their married partner.

 

Kismet, you sound beautiful based on your description, and you fill the needs of your MM. From what you say, I agree. It is unlikely that he would leave his wife for you. You provide the excitement while she provides the stability.

 

Truthfully, I see this ending one day when YOU find a single man or when he is discovered by his wife. If you find a better guy, then his life will be ruined. If he is discovered, then he will run back to his wife...and I pretty much guarantee that she will take him back...especially since he is the sole wage earner.

 

Again, live for today. Today is the fantasy...tomorrow is the reality.

[whichwayisup]

She isn't going to 'meet anyone' or have her heart open enough to allow another guy in because she's inlove with the MM. She could very well miss the boat by staying with a MM who has no intention of leaving his wife and kids.

[Owl]

She isn't going to 'meet anyone' or have her heart open enough to allow another guy in because she's inlove with the MM. She could very well miss the boat by staying with a MM who has no intention of leaving his wife and kids.

 

I think you've got a very valid point.

[Owl]

Fact is.. these guys are 'Mr tout le monde' (ordinary guys, like you) and I think I am far more knowledgeable than you are when it comes to MMs.. ... it doesn't leaves my views biased as you say.. these guys are great people.. great fathers... in all branches of society.. so I think I am entitle to my opinions regardless of my second job and what you think.. and I think I'm far better 'placed' to give such opinions..

 

Cheers!

 

Lizzie, we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

You believe them to be great people, and great fathers.

 

I'm sorry...but cheating on their wives and paying women for sex rather negates those possibilities in my book.

[torranceshipman]

From the description you gave of you and the W, it sounds like he might think of her as good W material, and you as the exciting A material, and so he wants both of you, but for diffrent reasons. For that reason I think he enjoys the physical side with both of you, but its probably very different with both of you. I think its quite logical to presume that they have a regular sex life-with her its probably safe and familiar and kinda makin love with his W who he loves, the M of his children, and a way of showing he loves her, but with you he probably thinks its more naughty and exciting and its more intense and physical...