What marriage means for some men...

[soserious1]

I'd like to thank whoever flagged my post and got me warned

 

At any rate I pay alimony in order to be free of my husband,yes I divorced my lifemate, that person with whom I was supposed to share a "soul connection" I would rather saw off my own leg than be stuck in any sort of committed relationship ever again. I'm not interested in sharing my money, I'm not interested in using my energy and time to "help" somebody else with their responsibilties and problems, I'm not interested in having to ask permission to go places or having to check in, nor in asking permission to spend my own earnings, there's nothing ANY man could give me that would make the trade off worthwhile. If that lifestyle works for you,great but it doesn't work for me.

[Lizzie60]

I'd like to thank whoever flagged my post and got me warned

 

At any rate I pay alimony in order to be free of my husband,yes I divorced my lifemate, that person with whom I was supposed to share a "soul connection" I would rather saw off my own leg than be stuck in any sort of committed relationship ever again. I'm not interested in sharing my money, I'm not interested in using my energy and time to "help" somebody else with their responsibilties and problems, I'm not interested in having to ask permission to go places or having to check in, nor in asking permission to spend my own earnings, there's nothing ANY man could give me that would make the trade off worthwhile. If that lifestyle works for you,great but it doesn't work for me.

 

I totally agree.. but we can think like that because we're old enough to think like that.. for the young ones.. they have to live their own experience.. we were thinking like them (at least I was) when we were younger..

 

I think that as we get older, we get wiser..

[carhill]

I'm not interested in using my energy and time to "help" somebody else with their responsibilties and problems, I'm not interested in having to ask permission to go places or having to check in, nor in asking permission to spend my own earnings, there's nothing ANY man could give me that would make the trade off worthwhile. If that lifestyle works for you,great but it doesn't work for me.

 

Now you know how men have felt for decades

 

Some, like my father, internalized that strife and, like many men of his generation, died at a young (relatively) age.

 

None of those descriptors apply to my wife, nor should they. With freedom comes repsonsibility, for both genders. I embrace freedom .....and wear dark underwear

[soserious1]

Now you know how men have felt for decades

 

Some, like my father, internalized that strife and, like many men of his generation, died at a young (relatively) age.

 

None of those descriptors apply to my wife, nor should they. With freedom comes repsonsibility, for both genders. I embrace freedom .....and wear dark underwear

 

 

 

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

 

That was the best laugh I've had in days, thank you for that

 

Seriously, I used to worry so much about providing for us all, not just the earning of wages which I'm actually good at, people like to give me money in real time:) no, the worry was in the planning, investing, trying to stay up on trends. I'd seek my ex's imput only to be answered with " I don't know, do whatever you think is right"

 

 

I actually think I have a little more money now that he's gone even with having to pay him alimony. I'm no longer being nickled and dimed to death for extras over and above the monthly allowences I used to give him.

 

Oh and after a few weeks of interviews I've got a new roomate moving in on Nov 1st, I went with a good service that does background checks on BOTH parties. The gal is a commercial pilot who needs a safe, cozy place in a safe neighborhood for when she's in town:)

[Curmudgeon]

I don't know... You tell me!

 

Let me try to 'splain it because I'm afraid it could turn out to be a self-fulfilling prophesy if you're not careful.

 

When I divorced after 25 years and spent the next two remaking myself -- much needed changes -- I also decided what I would require of a woman if I was to ever enter into a relationship again and what I would desire in a woman.

 

The requirements were:

 

1. Long-term employed with her own retirement fund.

2. No school-aged children at home.

3. Post-menopausal (negotiable).

 

The desires were:

 

1. My educational equal.

2. My occupational equal.

3. My intelectual equal.

4. My spiritual equal.

 

I found all of the above. The fact that the sex was/is terrific was icing on the cake but not a major consideration. Bad or no sex would have been.

 

I hope this helps.

[Lizzie60]

One can also become wiser about who you choose as a partner. Wiser doesn't necessarily have to mean you become a cynic about relationships. And becoming a cynic about relationships doesn't mean you're wiser. Whatever your "wisdom" brings you to in life is completely your choice. And if you're happy with your choices, then more power to you!

 

 

I'm wiser.. not cynic..

 

I read posts from young posters all the time.. who wants to get married eventhough they have doubts.. they are not respected by their future H/W but are sooo head over heels that no matter how many posters will see the red flags.. they will still marry.. if you think that the advice to not get married is cynism.. then so be it.. I think I'm just being 'wiser' because I have the life experience they don't have.

 

Cheers!

[lonelyandfrustrated]

Lizzie, I'm a big believer in marriage but still I'd advise a lot of these posters to not follow through. Wish I'd've thought through my decisions more thoroughly.

[carhill]

Being spoiled is why man goes from mommy to wifey. Guess I didn't get that memo, as I now will proceed to set down laptop, make coffee and bring it to wifey in bed.

 

That's what marriage means to *some* men

[Woggle]

I have pretty much raised myself since I was 12 years old so I guess that is why I am not a child looking for a mommy.

[Touche]

For him, marriage is more to 'shack up', split all the bills, get financially stable.. have kids, but most of all, have sex whenever he wants.. no need to do all the 'dating/courting sh*t'...

 

He said he's not in love anymore but is fine with the monotony of the everyday life.. he said after so many years, you get used to it..

 

Ok, I've been gone for a few days and just got caught up on this thread. I wanted to add some things.

 

First of all, on the above bolded part I say "So WHAT?" I mean I could say the same too. So no problem for me there.

 

Second part doesn't apply to all of us who are married for a long time. Trust me, if my H wasn't happy he could divorce me and get pretty much what he wanted since he's a lawyer with many contacts.

 

Some of us ARE still in love. I know that's hard for some to believe. Some of us don't find our lives to be monotonous.

 

I found single life to be lonely and unexciting myself. But that's just me. All the more power to those who are fine with it. I don't wish for anyone to be miserable.

 

But let's not assume that those of us who are married for a long time have lost our "independence" or are miserable.

 

If losing one's independence means not being able to sleep with every Tom, Dick and Harry, so be it. Nice trade-off as far as I'm concerned. Tom, Dick and Harry had nothing over my H, that's for sure. You can have 'em.

 

Also, I had to address this comment made also on the subject of "independence" and the wives who lose it once they're married. So funny.

 

I have MORE independence now than I've ever had in my entire life.

 

Yes, I cook and clean and work. Just like I did when I was single. I still did all of those things. But now, I get to decide when I do those things. I'm no longer chained to a desk and working 8 to 5. I no longer have anyone telling me when to take my vacations and how long they can be.

 

I can work whenever I feel like it pretty much. And I can also take a day off whenever I feel like it (like I did yesterday to go shopping;) )

 

I get to live with my best friend and our son gets to live under the same roof with a legally married mother and father. (What a concept, right?)

 

As far as I can tell, we BOTH are better off now then we were when we were single. I guess that doesn't apply to everyone but it does to us.

 

As for my H, he has someone taking care of the house (cooking/cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping), our son, all office matters as it relates to helping him run his law practice, managing our rental properties, vacation planning, etc.

 

Not to mention that he has a loving wife who still desires him sexually.

 

So who is losing in this equation?

[Touche]

Yeah, but Touche you forget about those omnipresent skid marks. Doesn't that make you just want to run screaming? lol

 

Very funny, Donna! (By the way, I've been enjoying your posts.)

 

Ok, I'll address that, even though it's TMI. My H is a bit OCD. He actually handwashes his undies in the sink before throwing them in the laundry.

 

Early on in our marriage I used to wonder why his underwear was always damp when I put it in the wash.

 

I swear, I'm NOT making this up.

 

So yeah, I have it good. I don't even have to contend with that little unsavory bit.

[Touche]

I'm absolutely CERTAIN that most of the rest of us "relationship people" don't either.

 

I'd agree with that. I mean, REALLY!

 

:laugh:

[Touche]

Oh, yeah. My guy and I commute together. Here's how UNselfish he is: I get off work an hour before him. I like to get a workout in when I can. I'm taking HIS car to the gym, and when he gets off work he's gonna hang around and wait until I'm done working out, after which I'll come back and get him so we can drive home together. He'll probably buy the takeout.

 

Awww, that's nice, Donna. I really think that that's the KEY. No one person should give more than the other. Both parties have different, but equally as valuable, contributions to make. Or at least that's the way I think it should be in order for it to work.

 

It's like that with ANY relationship though when you think about it. If one party is always giving more than the other, it just doesn't work. Never. I don't care if it's between same sex friends, siblings, mother/daughter, etc. etc.

 

Wouldn't you agree?

[soserious1]

I don't know, I feel I've sacrificed and sacrificed hard to do my duty. My children are grown, productive, successful young adults who claim to be happy. My soon to be ex-husband is happily moved into a new apt and will be provided for financially by me or my estate till he remarries or till he dies.

 

I've been held firmly accountable for my choices and been made to pay for them. What I want now is to live a life of reckless abandon. I don't want to be the meek, mild, warm hearted woman, I don't want to be loyal and faithful. I don't want to "silence myself" and put my wants on the back burner in order to put other people's agendas first anymore.

 

I've been a loyal,faithful wife and I gag at the thought of doing it again, it wasn't worth it, all the things I gave up,all I got back for my efforts was more chances to work hard and to "silence myself" as I provided support and care for others.

 

Nothing against men as a group but there's nothing ANY man could offer me that would make the tradeoff's involved in a monogamous relationship worthwhile enough for me to ever do it again.

[Trialbyfire]

I don't know, I feel I've sacrificed and sacrificed hard to do my duty. My children are grown, productive, successful young adults who claim to be happy. My soon to be ex-husband is happily moved into a new apt and will be provided for financially by me or my estate till he remarries or till he dies.

 

I've been held firmly accountable for my choices and been made to pay for them. What I want now is to live a life of reckless abandon. I don't want to be the meek, mild, warm hearted woman, I don't want to be loyal and faithful. I don't want to "silence myself" and put my wants on the back burner in order to put other people's agendas first anymore.

 

I've been a loyal,faithful wife and I gag at the thought of doing it again, it wasn't worth it, all the things I gave up,all I got back for my efforts was more chances to work hard and to "silence myself" as I provided support and care for others.

 

Nothing against men as a group but there's nothing ANY man could offer me that would make the tradeoff's involved in a monogamous relationship worthwhile enough for me to ever do it again.

soserious, I'm going to have to take you to task for this attitude. Why did you martyr yourself for so many years? What were you held accountable for?

[Touche]

Absolutely. And I think for the people who are the most vociferously (is that a word?) negative about relationships, they themselves have had SUCH a bad experience that they refuse to believe good relationships can and do exist.

 

That's exactly it.

 

As for you, soserious, it stinks that you feel that way. I'm sorry but I don't know your backstory.

 

Do you think you might have had something to do with the outcome here? I mean we all make our choices in life.

 

I had a miserable first marriage. I don't blame HIM though. I really don't. I blame MYSELF for making a very, very poor choice.

[marlena]

So serious,

 

I understand fully where you are coming from. Just as I understand where others who have a different stance on the issue are coming from. It is all about different phases in our life. What is important is not what others tell you but what you yourself feel is what you need AT THIS TIME IN YOUR LIFE.

[Touche]

But don't you see how you always assume everyone's relationship involves being meek, mild, etc. etc. etc. I'm ANYTHING but meek and mild! Sometimes I put my sweety's wants first (at my choosing), but he also puts mine first may times as well. If one or the other of us doesn't want to do something, we both respect each other's wants. For example, if I want to go out but my guy doesn't feel like it, I call my girlfriend and we hit the town. And he's perfectly happy with that.

 

Well put. I could have said those exact words.

 

And trust me, after what I went through after my first marriage, no one would EVER describe me as "meek and mild" or a pushover in any way, shape or form. Never.

 

Thing is, I would have never married a meek and mild man either. It can be tough to find that balance in a man. I was lucky that way.

 

But as you pointed out, Donna, it has to do with RESPECT and love too.

 

Most people are out for themselves and for themselves only. Those types can't ever have a successful relationship. Never.

 

And sadly, there are those who mistake self-confidence for narcissism and are drawn to those types. They make the worst partners.

 

When you think about it, it's almost a miracle to hook up with the "right" person. So many factors depend on it...so many factors.

[Lizzie60]

Very funny, Donna! (By the way, I've been enjoying your posts.)

 

Ok, I'll address that, even though it's TMI. My H is a bit OCD. He actually handwashes his undies in the sink before throwing them in the laundry.

 

Early on in our marriage I used to wonder why his underwear was always damp when I put it in the wash.

 

I swear, I'm NOT making this up.

 

So yeah, I have it good. I don't even have to contend with that little unsavory bit.

 

 

Hahaha.. so that means he washes off his skid marks.. you should tell him that using toilet paper would be much easier..

[Touche]

Ooops, I meant so many mistake narcissism for self-confidence and not the other way around.

 

As for your comment Lizzie, he not only uses toilet paper, he also uses "baby wipes!" I'm not kidding! He's just that OCD. Trust me, when he rinses out his undies in the sink there are probably no spots on it whatsoever.

 

He's just OCD, like I said.

 

Anywho, you know what? If the worst thing about him is that he had a couple of "spots" on his underwear, I'd take that. That would beat any other man's faults.

 

Luckily, that's just not one of his faults.

 

If pressed, I'm sure I can come up with some of his faults. For sure. But that just ain't one of them.

 

Nice try.

[Lizzie60]

Ooops, I meant so many mistake narcissism for self-confidence and not the other way around.

 

As for your comment Lizzie, he not only uses toilet paper, he also uses "baby wipes!" I'm not kidding! He's just that OCD. Trust me, when he rinses out his undies in the sink there are probably no spots on it whatsoever.

 

He's just OCD, like I said.

 

Anywho, you know what? If the worst thing about him is that he had a couple of "spots" on his underwear, I'd take that. That would beat any other man's faults.

 

Luckily, that's just not one of his faults.

 

If pressed, I'm sure I can come up with some of his faults. For sure. But that just ain't one of them.

 

Nice try.

 

Hummm... methink he is 'hiding' something.. OR he needs therapy..

[soserious1]

soserious, I'm going to have to take you to task for this attitude. Why did you martyr yourself for so many years? What were you held accountable for?

 

I was personally accountable for my choices, marrying, having children. I didn't bale at the first hint of personal unhappiness or sacrifice. The way I was reared taught me that if you were a "good woman" that once you had a family, their needs came before yours, always. My mother would cook a meal, the best,choicest cut of meat went to my father,then the children were served, then my mother ate what was left, during lean times there often wasn't much left, she wore the same winter coat and carried the same hand bag for years.Extra money being reserved for piano lessons, french tutors, Xmas and birthdays for us. My mother put my father and her children's needs above her own in all things great or small. She was also warm and gracious about it,made a person feel like they were doing her a personal favor by allowing her to do for them or care for them. My mother was the last of a generation I refer to as "the great ladies"

 

To me it was very simple, I chose to have this family, that this family didn't

meet my needs was not relevant by choosing to create this family the phrases "I need " or "I want" needed to be replaced with "What do you need?" "What would be best for my family?"

 

It wasn't any kind of sainthood, just the understanding that I'd made a promise, taken vows before my family,friends and god swearing ïn sickness

and in health,for richer for poorer.. there was nothing in those vows that said

anything about being happy.

[marlena]

But the problems weren't due to the 'R' word, they were due to your seemingly self-entitled, self-centered ex-husband.

 

 

No, they weren't. That said, however, there are times in our life when we want the big R and other times when we just simply don't. There doesn't have to be a deep-rooted, complex reason for this. It just is what is. Simple. Why must we always make mountains out of mole hills?

[Trialbyfire]

I was personally accountable for my choices, marrying, having children. I didn't bale at the first hint of personal unhappiness or sacrifice. The way I was reared taught me that if you were a "good woman" that once you had a family, their needs came before yours, always. My mother would cook a meal, the best,choicest cut of meat went to my father,then the children were served, then my mother ate what was left, during lean times there often wasn't much left, she wore the same winter coat and carried the same hand bag for years.Extra money being reserved for piano lessons, french tutors, Xmas and birthdays for us. My mother put my father and her children's needs above her own in all things great or small. She was also warm and gracious about it,made a person feel like they were doing her a personal favor by allowing her to do for them or care for them. My mother was the last of a generation I refer to as "the great ladies"

 

To me it was very simple, I chose to have this family, that this family didn't

meet my needs was not relevant by choosing to create this family the phrases "I need " or "I want" needed to be replaced with "What do you need?" "What would be best for my family?"

 

It wasn't any kind of sainthood, just the understanding that I'd made a promise, taken vows before my family,friends and god swearing ïn sickness

and in health,for richer for poorer.. there was nothing in those vows that said

anything about being happy.

I understand you putting your family first. That's what some women do, more in previous generations. The only problem is that if you don't respect yourself and your own needs, no one else will. The more a woman does this, the more she enables being taken advantage of.

 

As for now, there's no reason why you can't be selfish and treat yourself to whatever meets your needs. Your children are grown and your husband is an ex.

[Touche]

Hummm... methink he is 'hiding' something.. OR he needs therapy..

 

Haha, very funny. Yeah, I guess he must have a couple of OW's stashed away somewhere!

 

 

And trust me, if HE needs therapy, then we ALL do!

 

Soserious, why is self-sacrifice and happiness mutually exclusive? Some of us can achieve both. Why does it have to be one extreme or another?

 

I mean your mom sounded like a wonderful woman.

 

As for me, I'm not that selfless. I make sacrifices for my family but not completely at my own expense. There should be a proper balance there. And I try to maintain that.

 

Donna that was funny! He's the same way about the TP and how it falls! I kind of am too. I like it over the top/outside and not underneath.

 

He's so weird though. He can't sleep if a dresser drawer is opened or if a closet door isn't closed all the way...stuff like that.