Question about protection.

[Reggie]

James, you are missing a critical point: the married person justifiably relies on the representations of his/her spouse that he or she is not engaging in sex outside the marriage which exposes the BS to diseases.

Clearly, no such representations are made by a sinlge person regarding the risk posed to the partner. So, the assumption of the risk is consensual(guess that's redundant, eh?).

[OWoman]

At what point does someone's sexual history become "safe"? Unless both parties are known (conclusive evidence, whatever that would be) to be virgins with no sexual exposure (or other exposure which could lead to an STI, like drug use or MTCT of HIV) there is a risk that at some point in their sexual past they were exposed to something. Some STIs incubate and only appear later; others may be asymptomatic in one gender, but present synmptons in the other... At what point can even sexually exclusive couples relax and consider themselvews, and their partners, to be 'clean' and "safe"?

 

In my country, a prominent politician went on record announcing that she and her husband used condoms, despite both being (allegedly, anyway) sexually exclusive. This was partly to promote safer sex, to normalise it, to curb the spread of HIV, but also partly to put it out there that being smugly complacent about being safe because you're married is one of the riskiest positions to take - because one of the most vulnerable categories with one of the highest rates of infection (of HIV) is married women. Her stance was widely applauded, and I think very courageous. This was a lady in her 60s...

[Untouchable_Fire]

It's difficult to explain my actions and feelings. I feel that I don't owe anyone here an explanation. I love my H. I want to protect him and myself from the consequences of my actions. I wake up everyday thinking I will change and do something different, but my A is like a drug to me. I know I should stop, I know it's bad for me, but I can't.

 

I am selfish- I admit it. I am having my cake and eating it. Is it worse b/c I am a woman? Probably.

 

That sounds like you have a major chip on your shoulder!

 

Why don't you just file for Divorce and make things right! You don't love your husband, and your not protecting him from anything.

[jwi71]

At what point does someone's sexual history become "safe"?

 

Never. That is why promiscuity is dangerous. Sex feels great and we are all human...hence the challenge of resisting promiscuity. Hence the value of marriage and commitment. Well a value...many others but you get the idea.

 

Unless both parties are known (conclusive evidence, whatever that would be) to be virgins with no sexual exposure (or other exposure which could lead to an STI, like drug use or MTCT of HIV) there is a risk that at some point in their sexual past they were exposed to something. Some STIs incubate and only appear later; others may be asymptomatic in one gender, but present synmptons in the other... At what point can even sexually exclusive couples relax and consider themselvews, and their partners, to be 'clean' and "safe"?

 

A pair of married virgins who are faithful in their vows have no fears.

Yet, being a realist I do understand your point. There is no "safe" as you cannot control the actions of others. However the lack of ability to control others and "safety" does not excuse or justify risky behavior (promiscuity).

 

As you say...there is no "safe". No prophylactic that is 100% effective - one can minimize risks but never completely eliminate them. Of course, had one stayed a virgin, married a virgin and remained faithful there is no risk. Or celibacy - and, uh, that is a choice for very few.

[bentnotbroken]

At what point does someone's sexual history become "safe"? Unless both parties are known (conclusive evidence, whatever that would be) to be virgins with no sexual exposure (or other exposure which could lead to an STI, like drug use or MTCT of HIV) there is a risk that at some point in their sexual past they were exposed to something. Some STIs incubate and only appear later; others may be asymptomatic in one gender, but present synmptons in the other... At what point can even sexually exclusive couples relax and consider themselvews, and their partners, to be 'clean' and "safe"?

 

In my country, a prominent politician went on record announcing that she and her husband used condoms, despite both being (allegedly, anyway) sexually exclusive. This was partly to promote safer sex, to normalise it, to curb the spread of HIV, but also partly to put it out there that being smugly complacent about being safe because you're married is one of the riskiest positions to take - because one of the most vulnerable categories with one of the highest rates of infection (of HIV) is married women. Her stance was widely applauded, and I think very courageous. This was a lady in her 60s...

 

 

My youth was a giant experiment.:oWhen I decided to marry, I got tested(mid 80's), when I decided to have my first child, tested to make sure. When I got pregnant again, I got tested. I shouldn't have been the one to be tested. He should have, lying sack of sh*t

[DealingWDrama]

James, you are missing a critical point: the married person justifiably relies on the representations of his/her spouse that he or she is not engaging in sex outside the marriage which exposes the BS to diseases.

Clearly, no such representations are made by a sinlge person regarding the risk posed to the partner. So, the assumption of the risk is consensual(guess that's redundant, eh?).

 

When I first discovered my H's A, I made an appointment with my gyno and got tested for EVERYTHING under the sun. As a matter of fact, upon finding out about the A, the first words out of my mouth were, "How dare you place my life in danger! Do you realize you could have exposed me to a deadly disease and taken away our children's parents for a piece of a$$?"

As I have stated before my H's 'boys' are still in tact, so my tests came back clean...but that isn't the point.

[KismetGirl]

It's difficult to explain my actions and feelings. I feel that I don't owe anyone here an explanation. I love my H. I want to protect him and myself from the consequences of my actions. I wake up everyday thinking I will change and do something different, but my A is like a drug to me. I know I should stop, I know it's bad for me, but I can't.

 

I am selfish- I admit it. I am having my cake and eating it. Is it worse b/c I am a woman? Probably.

 

Things happen. It's unlikely you got anything from one go, and just because he's cheating with you doesn't mean he's had tons of other lovers outside his marriage, if any besides you.

 

Look, I consider myself to be a strong, intelligent woman, and I've only slept with one person before in my life without a condom who I was in a relationship with for over 3 years monogamously. But a few weeks ago, after sleeping with MM for nearly a year straight now, and fooling around with him four four years or so, I just decided to not use anything. He's not been with anyone but me and his wife for 7 years, and I've not been with anyone in a year and I get tested twice a year when I go to my gyno. He obviously doesn't use condoms with his wife, and so he hadn't used them in quite a long time when me and him got together, and he'd sometimes lose his erection using the condom cause he wasnt used to it, and one day I got frustrated and just told him "f**k it, just take it off". Don't ask me why, i think ulteriorly I kind of wanted to see what it would be like to be with him that way. Whatever my reasons, my point is, it happens to the best of us. I am usually on birth control but hadn't used it that month, so i ran and got the morning after pill just in case, which i hope you also did, if you had slept with him that time you didnt use anything. Ever since then me and him kind of just got in the habit of not using a condom now, and I am on birth control. If i was to start sleeping with someone else, I would tell MM we have to go back to condoms because I don't want to put him or his W at risk, to be honest, but its been a long time since me or him have been with anyone else so for now I let it go. He barely has time to see me , let alone have some other OW floating around. His job is such that you pretty much know where he is all the time. Of course, all this time I am also assuming his W is being faithful to him all this time as well.

 

it's a risk you take when you don't use something. I've never done it before, don't know why I decided to do it now but its been done several times now so it won't make a difference at this point.

 

I'll probably get slack for this posting bu c'est la vie.

 

My point was, morality about having an A to beging with, no, even smart people get lost in the heat of the moment sometimes and all thoughts of STD's and pregnancy get swept away. hell, I doubt my MM wants me to get pregnant but he didn't even KNOW if i was on birth control or not and he never stopped me or asked me when i told him to just do it without a condom. Its not the best idea in the world, I will freely admit, and I should be using condoms at all times, and so should everyone else, but I guess that even in monogamous relationships you're taking a risk the other person is cheating huh? 90% of adults contrct an STD at some point in their lives and many will never know it. Things like HPV don't generally have symptoms or effects on men, and as with many viruses, your body can eventaully get rid of it on its own until you are just carrying antibodies and not actively "shedding" the virus. Everything in life is a risk, I guess, better to be smart about it, but even smart people make mistakes.

[noforgiveness]

Things happen. It's unlikely you got anything from one go, and just because he's cheating with you doesn't mean he's had tons of other lovers outside his marriage, if any besides you.

 

Look, I consider myself to be a strong, intelligent woman, and I've only slept with one person before in my life without a condom who I was in a relationship with for over 3 years monogamously. But a few weeks ago, after sleeping with MM for nearly a year straight now, and fooling around with him four four years or so, I just decided to not use anything. He's not been with anyone but me and his wife for 7 years, and I've not been with anyone in a year and I get tested twice a year when I go to my gyno. He obviously doesn't use condoms with his wife, and so he hadn't used them in quite a long time when me and him got together, and he'd sometimes lose his erection using the condom cause he wasnt used to it, and one day I got frustrated and just told him "f**k it, just take it off". Don't ask me why, i think ulteriorly I kind of wanted to see what it would be like to be with him that way. Whatever my reasons, my point is, it happens to the best of us. I am usually on birth control but hadn't used it that month, so i ran and got the morning after pill just in case, which i hope you also did, if you had slept with him that time you didnt use anything. Ever since then me and him kind of just got in the habit of not using a condom now, and I am on birth control. If i was to start sleeping with someone else, I would tell MM we have to go back to condoms because I don't want to put him or his W at risk, to be honest, but its been a long time since me or him have been with anyone else so for now I let it go. He barely has time to see me , let alone have some other OW floating around. His job is such that you pretty much know where he is all the time. Of course, all this time I am also assuming his W is being faithful to him all this time as well.

 

it's a risk you take when you don't use something. I've never done it before, don't know why I decided to do it now but its been done several times now so it won't make a difference at this point.

 

I'll probably get slack for this posting bu c'est la vie.

 

My point was, morality about having an A to beging with, no, even smart people get lost in the heat of the moment sometimes and all thoughts of STD's and pregnancy get swept away. hell, I doubt my MM wants me to get pregnant but he didn't even KNOW if i was on birth control or not and he never stopped me or asked me when i told him to just do it without a condom. Its not the best idea in the world, I will freely admit, and I should be using condoms at all times, and so should everyone else, but I guess that even in monogamous relationships you're taking a risk the other person is cheating huh? 90% of adults contrct an STD at some point in their lives and many will never know it. Things like HPV don't generally have symptoms or effects on men, and as with many viruses, your body can eventaully get rid of it on its own until you are just carrying antibodies and not actively "shedding" the virus. Everything in life is a risk, I guess, better to be smart about it, but even smart people make mistakes.

 

:sick:You told him to take the condom off and then knowingly had sex without birth control and then went out and got the morning after pill?:mad:

[KismetGirl]

:sick:You told him to take the condom off and then knowingly had sex without birth control and then went out and got the morning after pill?:mad:

 

Actually, no, I just wrote that because I knew you'd read it, and since you are such a kind, non-judgemental person, I knew you would really read through the whole posting and not berate anyone, but rather offer thoughtful and useful advice instead in a mature and respective manner befitting an adult. Thats you , right? Wait. I must be confused. Silly me. No, I haven't done any of those things.

[JamesM]

As I have stated before my H's 'boys' are still in tact, so my tests came back clean...but that isn't the point.

 

Actually, it IS the point. I understand why you were angry and scared, but this fear and anger were based on the assumption that since he cheated, he must have caught an STD. And I don't think that this connection is logical.

[noforgiveness]

Actually, no, I just wrote that because I knew you'd read it, and since you are such a kind, non-judgemental person, I knew you would really read through the whole posting and not berate anyone, but rather offer thoughtful and useful advice instead in a mature and respective manner befitting an adult. Thats you , right? Wait. I must be confused. Silly me. No, I haven't done any of those things.

 

Yes because we all know how mature it is to have unprotected sex and then say oh silly me no biggie go ahead we may make a life but hey I can just run out and pop the morning after pill. I mean it feels so much better without protection so we'll be mature and do what feels good not the responsible thing because gee there's this pill that can take care of any messy little babies that may occur.

[KismetGirl]

Yes because we all know how mature it is to have unprotected sex and then say oh silly me no biggie go ahead we may make a life but hey I can just run out and pop the morning after pill. I mean it feels so much better without protection so we'll be mature and do what feels good not the responsible thing because gee there's this pill that can take care of any messy little babies that may occur.

 

 

The very fact that I know without knowing you that you've made mistakes in life, makes me not really care much what you're saying. And you are obviously not very well informed, because the morning after pill isn't an abortion pill. It PREVENTS pregnancy by preventing implantation in the uterus of any eggs. it doesn't work if you are already pregnant. People make mistakes. The chances of me getting pregnant when taking the morning after pill within 12 hours of having unprotected sex makes the chances of me becoming pregnant nearly impossible. Go read up on your conception information again because obviously your knowledge ceases somewehere around "when a boy and girl have sex they can make a baby"- sex does not lead to spontaneous conception and implantation in the uterus. it takes upwards of 72 hours for that whole process to occur. So yes, i made a heat of the moment error in judgment , and i smartly went to get something to prevent a pregnancy from occurring. I would think that was the smart thing to do, after my lapse in judgment. Whether or not I should have used the condom after the fact is irrelevant. I made an error in judgment, and I did what I should have to prevent further complications. Everyone makes mistakes. its the one and only time in my life I've ever done that. Normally Im on birth control, the pill AND use condoms. im generally quite careful.

 

 

It must be very sad to live life so mad and hateful towards people you don't even know all the time. I find ignoring unintelligent , uneducated and rude comments to be much more relaxing in general, but I suppose a little educating now and then doesn't heart.

 

You have a bad habit of straying from the OP of any thread's original question by berating anyone you deem morally unfit. If that's all you have to contribute, which are insults and random accusations, maybe you should go elsewhere?

 

 

have a lovely day.

[Owl]

What do you think your MM would DO if you were suddenly pregnant?

[KismetGirl]

What do you think your MM would DO if you were suddenly pregnant?

 

 

I figured you're asking the OP what she would do, but on the off chance you were asking me because it was right after my posting....MM would freak out considerably, freak out some more, ask me what I'm planning on doing, then dependant on that answer he'd freak out some more and then be supportive in whatever decision I make. hes not the type to shun paternal responsibility.

[angie2443]

I figured you're asking the OP what she would do, but on the off chance you were asking me because it was right after my posting....MM would freak out considerably, freak out some more, ask me what I'm planning on doing, then dependant on that answer he'd freak out some more and then be supportive in whatever decision I make. hes not the type to shun paternal responsibility.

 

If he has children, he is shunning paternal responsibility. He can't be a good father while leading a double life.

[KismetGirl]

If he has children, he is shunning paternal responsibility. He can't be a good father while leading a double life.

 

 

Oh christ we're getting into semantics again. He's there for his kids every day ok, he's a good dad. Saying someone can't be a good dad if they are not in a relationship with the baby's mother is like saying that all divorced parents are bad ones, which is ridiculous.

[Owl]

Oh christ we're getting into semantics again. He's there for his kids every day ok, he's a good dad. Saying someone can't be a good dad if they are not in a relationship with the baby's mother is like saying that all divorced parents are bad ones, which is ridiculous.

 

Agreed. We all know that a cheating father or mother sets a wonderful example for their children to follow! Why doesn't everyone else see it that way???

[KismetGirl]

Agreed. We all know that a cheating father or mother sets a wonderful example for their children to follow! Why doesn't everyone else see it that way???

 

i didn't say cheating is a good thing but not all children become effed up headcases because one parent cheated for gods sake. anyway we've gone off topic again apparently. anyone have something relevant to OP's question to say?

[noforgiveness]

i didn't say cheating is a good thing but not all children become effed up headcases because one parent cheated for gods sake. anyway we've gone off topic again apparently. anyone have something relevant to OP's question to say?

 

Really? You don't think it messes with the kids when they see mom crying all the time, on the phone all the time with her support system,not paying full attention to them because her heart is being torn out, seeing mom and dad fight all the time, watching dad pack up and move to a new place, watching dad bring his new young toy around? Not waking up to dad in the morning anymore or tucking them in at night.You don't think this affects the kids at all? They call it a fantasy and that is where your head is if you think cheating doesn't affect the kids.

[KismetGirl]

Really? You don't think it messes with the kids when they see mom crying all the time, on the phone all the time with her support system,not paying full attention to them because her heart is being torn out, seeing mom and dad fight all the time, watching dad pack up and move to a new place, watching dad bring his new young toy around? Not waking up to dad in the morning anymore or tucking them in at night.You don't think this affects the kids at all? They call it a fantasy and that is where your head is if you think cheating doesn't affect the kids.

 

No, i said it can affect them if it all comes out in the open and mom even finds out to begin with.

 

If they never find out, then the scenario you describe above is unlikely to happen.

 

He comes home to tuck them in every night, his wife is none the wiser because she's not shy about hiding suspicions, four years ago when he wasn't quite so adept at hiding things she called him on it a couple times, she's not going to sit there and not say anything if she thinks somethng is going on. He isn't bringing any young thing around, their parents are never breaking up, at least not because of me, he's made it pretty clear his family is number one and he isn't leaving them for me.

 

So while your portrayal can very well happen, it could also happen in ANY divorce, whether the parents cheated or they just didnt love each other any more and divorced for other reasons. So give me a break, because not all children of divorce end up screwed up, and not every affair results in the wife finding out at all.

 

Honestly, noforgiveness, your name pretty much sums up the reasons for your bitterness, but have you EVER come on here to write ANYTHING remotely useful or is this just a way for you to vent your anger at people you don't know? I guess everone needs their own kind of therapuetic practices, so if that is your way, I guess I'l have to learn to ignore your posts. So have fun with it, if that's helping you, but it seems to me that anger never helped anyone heal, it just perpetuates the hurt, perhaps you should deal with your own issues instead of berating everyone you disagree with?

[bentnotbroken]

I figured you're asking the OP what she would do, but on the off chance you were asking me because it was right after my posting....MM would freak out considerably, freak out some more, ask me what I'm planning on doing, then dependant on that answer he'd freak out some more and then be supportive in whatever decision I make. hes not the type to shun paternal responsibility.

 

 

Just marital responsibility huh? Thank God for his mercy.

[KismetGirl]

Just marital responsibility huh? Thank God for his mercy.

 

yeah. its a good thing everyone else on this planet is perfect in every way, or else we'd be over run by these horrible MM/s and MW's ruining the planet....screw any other decent quality they may have!

[greengoddess]

No, i said it can affect them if it all comes out in the open and mom even finds out to begin with.

 

If they never find out, then the scenario you describe above is unlikely to happen.

 

He comes home to tuck them in every night, his wife is none the wiser because she's not shy about hiding suspicions, four years ago when he wasn't quite so adept at hiding things she called him on it a couple times, she's not going to sit there and not say anything if she thinks somethng is going on. He isn't bringing any young thing around, their parents are never breaking up, at least not because of me, he's made it pretty clear his family is number one and he isn't leaving them for me.

 

So while your portrayal can very well happen, it could also happen in ANY divorce, whether the parents cheated or they just didnt love each other any more and divorced for other reasons. So give me a break, because not all children of divorce end up screwed up, and not every affair results in the wife finding out at all.

 

Honestly, noforgiveness, your name pretty much sums up the reasons for your bitterness, but have you EVER come on here to write ANYTHING remotely useful or is this just a way for you to vent your anger at people you don't know? I guess everone needs their own kind of therapuetic practices, so if that is your way, I guess I'l have to learn to ignore your posts. So have fun with it, if that's helping you, but it seems to me that anger never helped anyone heal, it just perpetuates the hurt, perhaps you should deal with your own issues instead of berating everyone you disagree with?

:laugh:so for four years you have been screwing this man and you think his wife is non the wiser and all is perfect? So what exactly does that say about your impact on him?

Other women are funny. No wonder why men have so much fun!

[KismetGirl]

:laugh:so for four years you have been screwing this man and you think his wife is non the wiser and all is perfect? So what exactly does that say about your impact on him?

Other women are funny. No wonder why men have so much fun!

 

 

 

No, we had an EA in the beginning, with some light kissing , touching, hugging, making out like teenagers, etc. We didn't start screwing until about ten months ago, but thanks for asking! She got wind of it only twice: once she found a strand of my hair on his sweater, and strangely enough, this was BEFORE anthing happened with us, i just happened to borrow his sweater at work one day, and the second time she found a suspicious email that she later dismissed. Other than that, nada. She's not the type to hold back if she suspects something, so, I guess after all this time....she doesn't.

[greengoddess]

No, we had an EA in the beginning, with some light kissing , touching, hugging, making out like teenagers, etc. We didn't start screwing until about ten months ago, but thanks for asking! She got wind of it only twice: once she found a strand of my hair on his sweater, and strangely enough, this was BEFORE anthing happened with us, i just happened to borrow his sweater at work one day, and the second time she found a suspicious email that she later dismissed. Other than that, nada. She's not the type to hold back if she suspects something, so, I guess after all this time....she doesn't.

:laugh:How many years have they been married? Maybe she is biding her time till she doesn't need as much parenting help and till she's been married long enough for alimony for LIFE? LOL a lot of states that is 20 years.