Not sure if this is a revelation of sorts on his part? Argh

[norajane]

PS- my date went well, sort of. As goes 99% of the time, he loved me and was asking with much enthusiasm when he could see my beautiful face again (his words) and obviously quite enamored from the get go....and of course, while I thought he was very nice, very smart, very educated, speaks like five languages, is a doctor, etc etc....didn't have nearly any of the same attraction as I have to someone else. I think I could get to like him in due time, and maybe I'll give a second date a go, but is it so bad to want that chemistry with someone? You can always grow to like someone over time, but I think if that spark isn't there from the beginning, it isn't really going to grow.... *sigh*

 

You are NEVER going to feel a spark for anyone while you are still so in love with MM, and so deeply entrenched in your thoughts and speculations about his marriage, his kids, whether he is a good person or not, etc. Stop all this speculation because it's a waste of time and keeps you mired in thinking of MM. He's not leaving his family, and it really truly doesn't matter why.

 

I don't recall how you and MM met, but I'll bet it wasn't on a date. Dates are different from getting to know people in other settings (like work, church, committees, volunteer activities, sports teams, class, etc.) and developing a relationship with them and then falling for them. Dates take longer to develop that common bond, because often, the only thing bringing you together at first is the date itself.

 

I'd tell you to give this great guy who is clearly interested in you a chance, but you are in no way being remotely fair to him. You are seeing someone else that you are in love with! How do you think your date would feel about that? And don't fool yourself into thinking you can feel anything for anyone else while you are thoroughly uninterested in getting yourself out of this affair.

 

One thing at a time. Decide to turn your life around and get rid of MM. Heal. Do a lot of thinking. Figure out why an affair is so much more appealing to you than a whole relationship. Heal some more. THEN start dating, once you've come out the other side.

[KismetGirl]

At the risk of sounding blunt, er um being blunt...

 

The feelings that the MM has towards his W are completely irrelevant. Kismet, you seem to be obsessing over him and his life. But again, I assert that how he feels or doesn't feel about his W is irrelevant.

 

What IS relevant, is that he has clearly said that he does not have a desire to make you his GF or W. He isn't even all that interested in keeping you on as his affair, as he openly encouraged you to seek someone who cares for and is available to you.

 

Somehow, you are able to "see" that he doesn't love his wife, but are unable to see that he doesn't love you.

 

thank you for the unecessarily blunt posting.....

 

Never said he was in love with me....said me and him had a strong connection....ive never told him i love him. He has said it to me once. We don't discuss emotions because I told him a long time ago that I knew he didnt want to leave his kids, that i would never ask him to do such a thing, and that I knew this was not going to lead anywhere, and so we avoid emotional discussions that would pain us both. We stupidly grasp onto little bits of time with one another. It's more satisfying for him because I dont go to my husband after spending two hours with him. He gets jealous when i go out on a date, but its entirely different than what I feel when he goes home to a wife and kids .

 

If he wanted to end the A he could have many times. In fact, he did several times, in the beginning, and I never argued or pleaded for him not to. I accepted it every time. Two days later, he would come back telling me he missed the way I felt in his arms. Mind you, this was a full two years before we ever had sex for the first time. he wants me to find someone to do all the things he can't do because he does care about me, in his own weird way. He can't seem to break away from me, so he just assumes that when this A will end it will be because i choose it to end because I find someone else, which I say to him all the time. He knows i want someone that can spend the night and go out with me all night and he cannot feasibly do this with three kids and a wife right? I know everyone on here seems to think packing up and divorcing and changing your entire way of life, giving up your house and kids is the easiest thing in the world, but it ain't. He knows he doesn't want to break up his family, but wants me to be happy, because I think deep down he knows Im not. If he didnt care about me, he wouldnt say sh*t about it. he'd just keep getting what he's getting and that is it. What he says to me is unprompted. BUT, just like I cant seem to let go of him despite it being bad for me, he cant seem to let go of me despite what bad elements he knows are there. He inwardly knows I am troubled by our lack of time together, and I know that he feels massively guilty everytime he goes home after seeing me, and yet, we continue to see each other.

 

WildSoul....I know its sort of working out for you and your MM, and I envy you for that part, but you and yours are in a bit of a different situation than I am. Im 26 years old and at a time in my life where Im trying to figure out my future and things seem very hectic and frustrating and lonely for me sometimes, and he's only 33 with three small kids, the youngest of which is barely 6 months old, a brand new house he can barely pay for, and a wife he doesnt really want to hurt. Not to her face , anyway. Just because you arent in love with someone, doesnt mean you cant love them, or that you dislike them or hate them. he didn't put an ad up on craigslist looking for new women. Me and him worked together and one night something just happened. I got drunk, I told him he was cute, he kissed me, and that was that. he had never done it before, and neither had i. he has not done it with anyone since but me. and I dont recall if your MM had kids or not, but if he did and was able to leave them so easily, then yours is a rare case....and if he didnt have kids, its an entirely different case. Breaking up a marriage is one thing. It's a pricey, legal matter, but no different than breaking up two people that have been living common-law for 20 years and just never signed the marriage papers. Leaving your three kids is entirely another, i dont care what anyone says. It isnt a cliche....i spoken to plenty other married men before in my line of work that told me they cheated on their spouses, and nearly EVRY single one that had children younger than 12 said they tried to stick it out in their marriage for the kid's sake at least until all the kids were teenagers. This isnt information Im pulling out of my butt, this is something Ive had many patients confess to me in our counseling sessions (im a mental health counselor, dont know if i mentioned that). There are plenty of single moms out there, but that doesn't mean every guy will just up and dump his wife because he met someone else he liked.

 

And, I don't know what he gets out of this A....but it isn't just sex. You dont spend three years cuddling and making out with someone and talking to them and coming by their apartment just to lay on the couch with them and do nothing else for so long just for sex. He could have gotten laid from day one if it had been up to me, and he didnt at first beause he felt guilty about it, but he still couldnt let me go. he'd tell me he felt weird about feeling the way he did, and four years later he keeps doing it. So, if he's in this just for sex, good for him, because if he's just been preparing me to seduce me for three years, then i guess he deserves a good f**k or two for the three years of effort. (please note, sarcastic joke, it apparently does not transmit well via this medium.....my sarcasm is often missed on here....) But im sure that isnt the only reason.

 

Whatever, its irrelevant. Ive never once said i expected nor thought he would give up his family for me. I said I didnt believe he was in love with his wife, which I think is true still. I think he loves her, kind of like how I loved my ex that I stayed with for almost four years. I loved him very much and strongly considered marrying him, but I know with full certainty that no matter how much I loved him, we never had that spark I needed.

I would have ended up like MM- living a comfortable life with a spouse that loves me ,that i care about, and that i dread hurting. Hell, it took me over a year to work up the nerve to break up with my ex because of how i thought i'd hurt him, and how i thought he was good for me and i should stick it out and my family loved him, and he'd be a good dad, and etc, so i can imagine someone with 7 years of marriage and three kids and history and etc would have it infinitely harder.

 

Men need stability. if it ain't broke, they don't want to fix it. If it's leaking a bit, they'd rather tape it up than take on the enormous cost of rebuilding the whole house. Hopefully that analogy goes through as well. I feel like half of what I say just gets passed over sometimes.....

 

I will try to give this other guy a chance, but you can't force spark. Lately Ive been wondering if right now isn't a good time in my life for a relationship anyway. I don't like being an OW, if only because in this situation I let myself get emotionally involved. If i could have just kept it as a FWB, physical thing it would have been better for me, but I couldnt. Stupid me.

 

I'll get past it eventually....little steps, baby steps, maybe next year when i get accepted to a medical school itll be that positive push for me to change something. It's just hard to do when EVRYTHING else in your freaking life is draining you.

 

I have a massive headache and have come down with the flu and feel like pooh. I should call my doctor date from last night and tell him I need medicine. ha. he just texted me....again....he'd probably run over here from the hospital if i asked him to. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! That's how it goes, doesn't it. I swear sometimes, if there were 1,000 men in a room, and 999 of them were enamoured with me....I'd fall in love with the one guy who was unavailable! Maybe Im the a**, then?

[wildsoul]

Never said he was in love with me....said me and him had a strong connection....ive never told him i love him. He has said it to me once.

You are the one who has been saying that he doesn't say he loves you and the other things that make it clear he isn't looking for anything more than what you have. It seemed like you were waking up a little. But then in the last few days, you've started a whole other line of thinking about his marriage, etc. I wasn't trying to bash you--honestly. But I am pointing out that there you seem to have a strong denial in place. Just as you started to move forward, you seemed to have moved backwards.

 

I'm of no use to you, since I can't really understand why anyone would cling to a relationship where the MM/W says they don't want a future.

 

I've got lots of compassion for your pain and very much understand how you can't help who you love. I hope that you get the answers you need to move forward.

 

Please understand that I wasn't trying to slam you. I was just pointing out a blind spot, in an effort to help. I very much don't appreciate you taking swipes at my situation in a personal way. So let's just agree not to continue that line of discourse. Again, I was only trying to be help with my bluntness, not insult you in any way.

[GPFan]

Just making it known.....that "spark" wasn't there BEFORE three kids, they only had one when i met him, they both worked, grandparents babysat the kid during the day, so don't tell me just having one baby and being married only a couple years is so much stress that someone you were massively in love with no longer holds any romantic appeal for you? And that this appeal then just stayed lost the rest of the 7 years of your marriage? Intensity can ebb and flow but it seems to me that losing interest so soon in a marriage doesn't seem like you had that much intensity to begin with...

Do you hear yourself here? Try speaking into a tape recorder and playing it back.

 

 

 

 

Your pro's list is more about how YOU feel than how he feels, IMO. I know you've got a ton on your plate also. I hope you'll give this new fellow a chance for something REAL.

Good point!

 

 

 

What IS relevant, is that he has clearly said that he does not have a desire to make you his GF or W. He isn't even all that interested in keeping you on as his affair, as he openly encouraged you to seek someone who cares for and is available to you.

 

Somehow, you are able to "see" that he doesn't love his wife, but are unable to see that he doesn't love you.

Again, very good point!

 

 

 

I swear sometimes, if there were 1,000 men in a room, and 999 of them were enamoured with me....I'd fall in love with the one guy who was unavailable! Maybe Im the a**, then?

Good that you are beginning to notice your pattern. Best way to work it out is in counselling. Awareness is more than half the battle.

[Billie63]

I swear sometimes, if there were 1,000 men in a room, and 999 of them were enamoured with me....I'd fall in love with the one guy who was unavailable! Maybe Im the a**, then?

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Maybe counselling is the way forward?

[blinded]

Are we seeing the same person. lol. I'm kidding. I know we are not. BUT, they must have been cut from the same mold. They say the same things over and over to us. I've been doing alot of thinking. I've heard the term professional OW. I think there are a professional cheaters. Are you absolutely 100% sure during the time you were away from him, that no one else was in his life? I think these men are very charming and know how to push our buttons--and we allow it.

 

I've heard that men are able to compartmentalize their feelings. The difference is that while they just want a roll in the hay, we want more. They tease us with a hug, cuddle or kiss without any feelings of love. It's almost their way of saying 'thank you for doing the deed w/me'.

 

I've heard that women get attached to a person from a hormone that is secreted/excreted during sex. A hormone similar to one excreted while a mother breastfeeds her child. She feels a bond w/that person the more it occurs. It is easy to see that you are so attached to him.

 

I don't say this to be mean, in fact I say this to myself throughout the day as I think about my MM. I'm sure I know exactly how you are feeling. I try not to confuse my lust for him with love. But like you've said before, it's more easily said than done.

 

Try and be selfish for a moment. Think about how you see yourself when you are finished w/med school/residency. How does he fit into your life? What about when you have your high school reunion? Who do you want on your arm and how will he be introduced?

 

I am saying this b/c you sound like a beautiful and intelligent person. Sorry if it's not anything constructive. I'd offer you more support, but I'm in the same sinking boat as you. Hugs and good luck.

[KismetGirl]

I am not sure exactly what a nervous breakdown feels like, but I've come close many times I think. Maybe Im having one right now.

 

I woke up this morning sick and miserable, and started to cry, at 5 am. I panicked at the thought of going to work. I called out sick to work even though I really needed to go in. Now that I've called out sick, I'm panicking that I should have gone in and sitting on my couch typing this like some crazy person while crying and I don't even know what Im crying about.

 

I tried going without medication for months now, but maybe I should just suck it up and accept Im a very depressed and anxious person. Anti depressants only sort of helped before and I was sick of random side effects so I kept quitting them. I just hide it really well from everyne around me. Everyone else thinks Im this outgoing, gregarious, confidant chick. Inside I feel like Im slowly going insane. Between working full time, school, and my miserable choice in relationship to cling to, Im not sure that anything really makes me happy anymore. Haven't had a day off from work and school to relax in almost a year, I think. The one day I get off a week on sunday i spend panicking about all the other parts of my life that I dont have time to attend to monday through friday. It's just too much for one person. Im so so so sick of feeling this way , Im the eldest "child" in my entire family, older than all my siblings, my cousins, first one to be born in this country, and everyone has always relied on me for EVERY EFFING THING. Just ONCE I want to know what its like to f**king relax a little.

 

Sorry if I offended anyone. It all comes out on boards like these. Won't bother you anymore with my nonsense....

i'll come back if anything good happens to update, otherwise Im just anoying everyone, its pretty obvious....or if i rant again i guess you can just ignore it, I dont know.....

[JamesM]

KG, I think you do a very good job at expressing yourself and your situation. Better than most IMO.

 

And for the most part, I think you have received great advice and even mostly non-judgmental. Of course, there has to be the few who slam you for your situation. I say ignore them based on their attitude. However, in this thread, there are few.

 

A couple of comments.....

 

I do not see MM leaving his wife, nor do I see him breaking it off with you. IMO he is hoping that YOU will break it off with him...hence the comments about he hopes you will find someone who will give you what he cannot. I think a fear is that if he breaks it off, then it could get messy.

 

As for never having sex with you for three years, this is not as surprising as it sounds. He got from you what he needed. Affection, admiration, and simply someone who showed compassion. Then he did get kisses and touches. The sex was the icing on the cake.

 

What about the future? Unfortunately, you will have to break it off. He will not leave his wife. And I am guessing that the only way this will happen is if you allow yourself to fall in love with someone else.

[Billie63]

I am not sure exactly what a nervous breakdown feels like, but I've come close many times I think. Maybe Im having one right now.

 

I woke up this morning sick and miserable, and started to cry, at 5 am. I panicked at the thought of going to work. I called out sick to work even though I really needed to go in. Now that I've called out sick, I'm panicking that I should have gone in and sitting on my couch typing this like some crazy person while crying and I don't even know what Im crying about.

 

I tried going without medication for months now, but maybe I should just suck it up and accept Im a very depressed and anxious person. Anti depressants only sort of helped before and I was sick of random side effects so I kept quitting them. I just hide it really well from everyne around me. Everyone else thinks Im this outgoing, gregarious, confidant chick. Inside I feel like Im slowly going insane. Between working full time, school, and my miserable choice in relationship to cling to, Im not sure that anything really makes me happy anymore. Haven't had a day off from work and school to relax in almost a year, I think. The one day I get off a week on sunday i spend panicking about all the other parts of my life that I dont have time to attend to monday through friday. It's just too much for one person. Im so so so sick of feeling this way , Im the eldest "child" in my entire family, older than all my siblings, my cousins, first one to be born in this country, and everyone has always relied on me for EVERY EFFING THING. Just ONCE I want to know what its like to f**king relax a little.

 

Sorry if I offended anyone. It all comes out on boards like these. Won't bother you anymore with my nonsense....

i'll come back if anything good happens to update, otherwise Im just anoying everyone, its pretty obvious....or if i rant again i guess you can just ignore it, I dont know.....

 

The same thing happened to me 10 months ago. I stopped taking anti-anxiety tablets then one morning it all fell apart. Rang in sick at work and spent the day sobbing. Went to my GP who upped my medication. I hope you go and see your doc and try and take a break from work. Don't be afraid of offending anyone on here - get yourself sorted out though, don't try and go it alone. Best wishes to you.

[JamesM]

Additional comments....

 

No guy is worth ruining your health over.

 

And as for him not having anyone else, this may or may not be true. If he went three years without sex with you, then he obviously hopes to gain something more than sex from a relationship. And since he visits you only once or twice a week, he obviously has an excuse for coming home or not coming home when he does. It would even be easier to have every day be the same schedule rather than have just the days he is with you.

 

He may not sleep with anyone else, but he may have other EAs.

 

As for sleeping with his wife and their marriage, it is possible that SHE gets everything she wants from the marriage, but he does not. So sex may actually be pretty good when they have it, or he may always be hoping that it will be good. I am guessing in his perfect world, he would like his relationship with his wife to be much better and then he would leave you.

 

He may say he doesn't have the spark, but he may want the spark. And when he says "the spark," he may be comparing what he has with her to the brief exciting encounters he has with you. Living with you every day may give him a different opinion of you.

 

Cheaters usually enjoy cheating because it is all about today and never about tomorrow. When it becomes about tomorrow, then the fantasy is gone.

[jj33]

KG as you would know from your patients sometimes you just have to hit bottom whether its an addition to drugs or an addiction to a person.

 

Im sure noone here wants to hurt you. They want to help because you are obviously in a lot of pain over this.

[Owl]

KG, I think you do a very good job at expressing yourself and your situation. Better than most IMO.

 

And for the most part, I think you have received great advice and even mostly non-judgmental. Of course, there has to be the few who slam you for your situation. I say ignore them based on their attitude. However, in this thread, there are few.

 

A couple of comments.....

 

I do not see MM leaving his wife, nor do I see him breaking it off with you. IMO he is hoping that YOU will break it off with him...hence the comments about he hopes you will find someone who will give you what he cannot. I think a fear is that if he breaks it off, then it could get messy.

 

As for never having sex with you for three years, this is not as surprising as it sounds. He got from you what he needed. Affection, admiration, and simply someone who showed compassion. Then he did get kisses and touches. The sex was the icing on the cake.

 

What about the future? Unfortunately, you will have to break it off. He will not leave his wife. And I am guessing that the only way this will happen is if you allow yourself to fall in love with someone else.

 

JamesM, we don't often agree...but we do here.

[whichwayisup]

I want to know what its like to f**king relax a little.

 

Then go away with some friends for a week. Go somewhere warm, relax and sun tan or something..Swim etc..

 

Sorry if I offended anyone. It all comes out on boards like these. Won't bother you anymore with my nonsense....

i'll come back if anything good happens to update, otherwise Im just anoying everyone, its pretty obvious....or if i rant again

 

Rant away and don't leave. You're having a bad day and are also not feeling well physically. You're not annoying anyone so don't say stuff like that. And, what you say isn't nonsense, so keep posting.

[norajane]

I am not sure exactly what a nervous breakdown feels like, but I've come close many times I think. Maybe Im having one right now.

 

I woke up this morning sick and miserable, and started to cry, at 5 am. I panicked at the thought of going to work. I called out sick to work even though I really needed to go in. Now that I've called out sick, I'm panicking that I should have gone in and sitting on my couch typing this like some crazy person while crying and I don't even know what Im crying about.

 

I tried going without medication for months now, but maybe I should just suck it up and accept Im a very depressed and anxious person. Anti depressants only sort of helped before and I was sick of random side effects so I kept quitting them. I just hide it really well from everyne around me. Everyone else thinks Im this outgoing, gregarious, confidant chick. Inside I feel like Im slowly going insane. Between working full time, school, and my miserable choice in relationship to cling to, Im not sure that anything really makes me happy anymore. Haven't had a day off from work and school to relax in almost a year, I think. The one day I get off a week on sunday i spend panicking about all the other parts of my life that I dont have time to attend to monday through friday. It's just too much for one person. Im so so so sick of feeling this way , Im the eldest "child" in my entire family, older than all my siblings, my cousins, first one to be born in this country, and everyone has always relied on me for EVERY EFFING THING. Just ONCE I want to know what its like to f**king relax a little.

 

I know how you feel. I really do. And I'm sorry you're in that place right now.

 

And maybe no one ever told you, but you don't have to be Superwoman. You really, really don't.

 

Start learning to say NO. All those people relying on you will not fall apart and die if you say no. They will have to figure it out for themselves. And they will. Even if you feel responsible and you don't think they can handle it without your help, they can and they will.

 

You have a lot of dreams for what you want for your future, but you don't have to do it all at once right now. You have a long life ahead of you. Is there anywhere in your life you can cut back? Either at work, or take fewer classes?

 

I was in your shoes a few years ago and I did something I never imagined I could or would do. I was so burned out I quit my job and took a year sabbatical. It was scary, but I didn't care anymore how scary it was. I knew that if I kept going the way I was, I was going to just lose it one day. And I realized that was no way to live my life. That I wasn't living, I was just on autopilot survival mode.

 

Not only was it the best thing I ever did for myself, but I realized the world would not fall apart if I didn't carry it on my shoulders. And I realized that I needed to make my life worth living, by focusing on what made me happy. And living coffee cup to coffee cup was not the way to happiness.

 

I hope you can find a way to change your plan so that you can accomplish what you want and enjoy your life while doing it.

 

Good luck to you.