Not sure if this is a revelation of sorts on his part? Argh

[Owl]

He had told me, after she found out, that they had had a talk of some kind and realized they had issues to address in their marraige. Apparentl, their discussions didn't do much, cause here he is again....

 

Something to consider too...it might well be that what's lacking isn't in his marriage...its in HIM. And his infidelity with you might well be a symptom of THAT, rather than a symptom of something lacking in his marriage.

 

Its a common thing with MM/MW...they find out that what they're not happy with in their marriage wasn't their marriage...it was something within themselves.

[KismetGirl]

Hmmm....did he ever spell out exactly what that evidence was? I ask, because since the two of you were NC, it makes me wonder if he WAS cheating with someone else.

 

I agree with all the advice you've been given about taking back control.

 

 

Oh, I know exactly what it was. She found it right before we went NC, it was part of the reason we did go NC, because I felt I'd give him a chance to work on his marriage without me around. I was also hurting from seeing him every day at work, and seeing him bring in photos to show other co workers of his new baby's sonogram (she was preggers with the second kid at the time) and couldnt take it anymore so I had gotten a new job and was quitting this one within a month. Apparently I was thinking more rationally at the time.

 

Anyway (and this is just one of the many reasons I know he has never cheated before, because he is just god awful at lying...or he was in the beginning anyway), when we were first hooking up, he'd given me an email address , stupidly, that he forgot his wife had the password to. Just to tease him, I sent him, at his request, some naughty-type photos. He thought he erased it, but by accident the email was sent to the address twice and he missed the second one. I didn't write anything in the email, it was just an email without any words (no "dear MM, these are for you" or anything) with photos of me of a suggestive nature that you don't send to someone who is just your friend.

 

He called me frantic when she called him at work to ask him why the eff he had pictures of some girl in sexy outfits in his inbox, and he frantically called me to ask me what the hell he should do, so i offered to help him stay out of trouble by writing an email to the same address, this time apologizing profusefuly to him for "accidentally" sending him those photos, as I had meant to send them to my boyfriend and wasn't paying attention when I clicked on the receipt address, as his email was listed right above my boyfriend's email in my address book, and how i was soooo embarrassed to have sent such an email to my boss of all people, and etc etc. She obviously read it when she went back into the account. She was mad at him for a while after that, I guess, and I don't know what else he told her after that, but even if she didn't believe him, she wanted to believe him, so eventually they got past it.

[KismetGirl]

Something to consider too...it might well be that what's lacking isn't in his marriage...its in HIM. And his infidelity with you might well be a symptom of THAT, rather than a symptom of something lacking in his marriage.

 

Its a common thing with MM/MW...they find out that what they're not happy with in their marriage wasn't their marriage...it was something within themselves.

 

Maybe i shoudl just ask him, then, why he bothers if there's always the chance he'll get caught again, and this time won't be able to talk his way out of it. I wonder if he'd tell me. He's been somewhat more "honest" about answering questions lately, meaning, he never says anything at all usually, but the last couple days he's been more forward with saying whats on his mind. So maybe if i ask i'd get an answer, who knows.

[Owl]

Maybe i shoudl just ask him, then, why he bothers if there's always the chance he'll get caught again, and this time won't be able to talk his way out of it. I wonder if he'd tell me. He's been somewhat more "honest" about answering questions lately, meaning, he never says anything at all usually, but the last couple days he's been more forward with saying whats on his mind. So maybe if i ask i'd get an answer, who knows.

 

Good idea. You'd mentioned in a prior post that he was "god awful at lying"...but that would be amazing when you think about it...he's successfully lied to his wife all these years, ya know? He's apparently gotten much better at it.

 

But...since you know for sure that the 'evidence' was definitely from your affair with him and not someone else, that's a definite better situation than to find out it might have been someone else.

 

But the question still remains...is the situation you're in with him right now going where you want it to go? Are you happy with how things are, where they're headed? Or do you want them to change?

[KismetGirl]

Good idea. You'd mentioned in a prior post that he was "god awful at lying"...but that would be amazing when you think about it...he's successfully lied to his wife all these years, ya know? He's apparently gotten much better at it.

 

But...since you know for sure that the 'evidence' was definitely from your affair with him and not someone else, that's a definite better situation than to find out it might have been someone else.

 

But the question still remains...is the situation you're in with him right now going where you want it to go? Are you happy with how things are, where they're headed? Or do you want them to change?

 

Trust me, he's an awful liar, or coming up WITH the lies anyway. He's gotten mildly better as the years go, but part of the reason we don't hang out much in the evenings anymore, besides our conflicting schedules, is really , I believe, his inability to come up with a viable excuse as to why he's out of the house. Three kids, he doesn't really go out drinking with the buddies like he used to....I might ask him.

 

Of all the things I dont know, one thing I do know with 99% certainty is that he hasn't slept with anyone but me and the W in the past 7 years. Whether because he's comfortable with our situation and knows I won't go callin his W or demanding he leave her, or because he really likes me, who knows. A bit of both, perhaps.

 

You know what i did today. I put a profile on Match.com. Just to do it. I got two emails in the first hour so far. Im not sure how exited I am to go out with someone new, but perhaps I'll force myself to try to get mind off MM.

 

he doesnt make it easy though. I told him I hate it when he doesnt call me back and etc, and now all of a sudden he's returning all phone calls. He called me just now after I left a voicemail at work earlier today, and spent an hour talking to me on the phone because he knows I've been stressed with work and school. It felt like when we used to hang out as friends....and talk....it was kind of nice. *sigh*

[whichwayisup]

You need to emotionally detach yourself from him, or atleast try to. Stop relying on him to make yourself feel good, and feeding your feelings.

 

Rely on your women friends and family for support, don't rely on him for the stuff anymore.

 

Of all the things I dont know, one thing I do know with 99% certainty is that he hasn't slept with anyone but me and the W in the past 7 years.

 

You'll never really know the answer to that one. He'd be a fool to tell you if he did..

 

Look at it this way - This man has had NO problem cheating on his wife, the woman who gave him children.. Why wouldn't he lie or cheat on you as well? Don't mean this harshly, but what's more special about you than his own wife? Think about that - GET pissed off about it, because this guy looks out for number one. HIMSELF.

[Reggie]

I can't imagine why you are confused, either. This is as straightforward a relationship as could be. It's premised on lying and cheating. This guy wants to have a relatiosnhip with you and with his wife and kids. Where is the confusion?

[KismetGirl]

You need to emotionally detach yourself from him, or atleast try to. Stop relying on him to make yourself feel good, and feeding your feelings.

 

Rely on your women friends and family for support, don't rely on him for the stuff anymore.

 

 

 

You'll never really know the answer to that one. He'd be a fool to tell you if he did..

 

Look at it this way - This man has had NO problem cheating on his wife, the woman who gave him children.. Why wouldn't he lie or cheat on you as well? Don't mean this harshly, but what's more special about you than his own wife? Think about that - GET pissed off about it, because this guy looks out for number one. HIMSELF.

 

Well, I dont believe he has NO problem with his actions. I think after four years he's learned to deal with his guilt much better, yes, but part of the reason we didnt sleep together the first three years was his guilt at doing that. It was mostly EA, with a bit of kissing and light fooling around for the first length of time I knew him. It's not so much that he's told me he hasnt been with anyone else, its more his actions and his life to be honest. the type of job he has, he has to be accounted for pretty much every hour of the day. His voicemail will always say where he is, and he has to be there or he'll be in mucho trouble. As far as night time goes, maybe in the beginning he had more oppurtunity but he hasnt got it now, and he was sooooo awkward about this whole A thing in the beginning, it was plainly obvious he'd not been with another woman in a looooong time other than his wife when we met. You may call this flimsy evidence at best, but I'll freely admit when Im not sure of something, and im not sure how he feels about me, for instance, aside from knowing he cares on some level, but Im almost certain he's never cheated on his wife before, as i said, if only because it happened easily with us, it took nearly three years for us to even get to the sleeping together stage, and in the beginning he was practically a giddy teenager just kissing me. Kind of obvious when someone is comfortable with something and has been doing it repeatadly, or when an experience is quite new to them, and being with another woman since he'd been married was somethng very new to him when i met him, that im fairly certain of....

 

yeah i do need to stop relying on him for my moods, youre right. havent figured out how to do it, yet but im trying to get that strength.....its a longer process for some than others.

 

at the least i wont be seein him next week. i made a small step for myself....i get a day off next week. Normally I'd be moving my schedule around to suit him so he an come see me, but, next week, im taking monday off, and he cant come monday at all. His family is in town from England for two weeks and next week he took off every day from work but tuesday so he could see them, and he can only see me on days he goes to work, so, i guess next week is out!

 

maybe it will be good to not be tempted to call him all week because i know he's unavailable.....a little forced NC....at least for a week or two, see how that feels....

[KismetGirl]

I can't imagine why you are confused, either. This is as straightforward a relationship as could be. It's premised on lying and cheating. This guy wants to have a relatiosnhip with you and with his wife and kids. Where is the confusion?

 

 

thats the whole point, i dont know why i feel so conflicted, when really it shoudl all be rather straighforward.....emotions make things confusing when they shouldnt be, i guess

[GreenX]

are you 100% sure that he goes home every single night and doesn't hang out with 'the guys' or tell his wife he is going out to the bar with some friends? I mean, he was able to before so what changed where he doesn't go out ever anymore? Did the W put a leash on him?

[KismetGirl]

are you 100% sure that he goes home every single night and doesn't hang out with 'the guys' or tell his wife he is going out to the bar with some friends? I mean, he was able to before so what changed where he doesn't go out ever anymore? Did the W put a leash on him?

 

 

No....he still used to go out once in a while when they only had one kid at home. Now that he has three of them its a tad harder. Two out of three had some medical issues as well when first born, so he's home most of the time when not at work. he goes out for a beer once in a blue moon in his neighborhood but he doesn't go out into manhattan like he used to. And, he used to live here in the city, easier to go out, the new house they bought couple years ago is waaaaaay out on the island in bumblef*** suburbia, not really a social scene, all family houses, taht's about it. I've been out there. There's a big difference between having one kid, and having three babies at home. She wants him home at night to help and he does it because, despite what everyone else thinks for some reason, he IS a good dad.

 

And financially speaking, he can't afford to go out anyway. He wouldn't even buy himself a 40 dollar book he's been dying to get recently because money is so tight. Wife quit her job two years ago to be SAHM, he makes 70k a year to pay for new house and five person family. When I first met him we used to go to the baseball stadium, spend 100 bucks on overpriced beer, he'd buy those books he likes to collect....not anymore. He had to take on a second job, actually, one or two nights a week as well.

 

So, yeah, he's not seeing any other OW's. It's not like an OW is some prostitute where you pay her for one hour, and then you can leave and not be bothered or have to commit ANY time for god's sake. It's like having another relationship of sorts, and most men, even if they wanted it, could not honestly fit ten million relationships into their lives, least of all my MM, that much I know!

[greengoddess]

Kismet girl when and how often do you see him? If he is not taking you out nights and weekends why be in this? This is horrible for you. He is getting everything out of this you are getting very, very little.

Clear your heart and mind of him and the right guy will come along. Your eyes aren't opened when your heart is cluttered with this using pos.

[KismetGirl]

Kismet girl when and how often do you see him? If he is not taking you out nights and weekends why be in this? This is horrible for you. He is getting everything out of this you are getting very, very little.

Clear your heart and mind of him and the right guy will come along. Your eyes aren't opened when your heart is cluttered with this using pos.

 

 

Not nearly as often as we used to see each other in the beginning. This is horrible for me. It's ruining my life, it's taking over all my thoughts, I haven't been able to study or do work properly, all I think about is this. Everytime I think about telling him to go, i lose my nerve once i hear his voice or see him.

 

I think as time goes i make baby steps. They're nearly invisible, but they are there. Like next week, when normally i would have taken the day off that is most suited to his schedule to come see me, and i didnt this time. I took off the day that i wanted to take off, which is a day he cant come over. so i wont be seeing him next week.

 

Im pretty sure i'll see him week after that but im trying. Maybe i'll try to end it around the holidays. I can only imagine how miserable Ill be then, knowing he's home with the family all the time and never with me. Maybe that'll give me the push to say, please dont come over anymore. I dont know....

[greengoddess]

Oh man are you telling me you only see him once a week or less for a vey short time? Come on be strong now. Tell him no more. Do it for yourself and your self esteem. This is no way to live.

[Owl]

So, yeah, he's not seeing any other OW's. It's not like an OW is some prostitute where you pay her for one hour, and then you can leave and not be bothered or have to commit ANY time for god's sake. It's like having another relationship of sorts, and most men, even if they wanted it, could not honestly fit ten million relationships into their lives, least of all my MM, that much I know!

 

That's not absolutely true. We've got at least one "professional OW" on this forum who does exactly that.

[KismetGirl]

That's not absolutely true. We've got at least one "professional OW" on this forum who does exactly that.

 

 

lets not be that way, Owl. You know exactly what I meant.

 

A prostitute is not an OW. She's a prostitute, providing a service. There is no emotional issue involved, one hour of sex, and that's it, no phone calls, hang outs, etc. I have no issues with it, per say, but its not an OW. So let's not stray unnecessarily....Some OW's might act more like friends with benefits and just act like their in it for the sex, but most of us have some emotional investment and you know it.

[SueBee3490]

lets not be that way, Owl. You know exactly what I meant.

 

A prostitute is not an OW. She's a prostitute, providing a service. There is no emotional issue involved, one hour of sex, and that's it, no phone calls, hang outs, etc. I have no issues with it, per say, but its not an OW. So let's not stray unnecessarily....Some OW's might act more like friends with benefits and just act like their in it for the sex, but most of us have some emotional investment and you know it.

 

Hope I did this right and the following copied. It's a post on another thread in which I answered you when you said you expect your MM would just go back to his humdrum life with wife/kids and your relationship will be over and nobody will know but you and him. I questioned how you can invest so much time in him and then just let him go. Sounds to me when you say you expect your relationship with him to end that you don't have emotions/love for him.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1887161&postcount=64

[KismetGirl]

Hope I did this right and the following copied. It's a post on another thread in which I answered you when you said you expect your MM would just go back to his humdrum life with wife/kids and your relationship will be over and nobody will know but you and him. I questioned how you can invest so much time in him and then just let him go. Sounds to me when you say you expect your relationship with him to end that you don't have emotions/love for him.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1887161&postcount=64

 

 

I expect it will end because he will never leave his W and I can't be the OW forever. If I didnt love him i would have been able to leave this torture long ago. If you think i stay around so i can get laid once a week by some married guy and that's it, you must be crazy. getting laid has never been a problem, i can assure you. I love him with all my heart. But I won't make him leave his wife for me. He needs to want to do that on his own. And if he doesn't , then all it can do is end at some point....right? Im not going to sit here when im effing 40 years old waiting for him. What am I supposed to do, put a gun to his head and say "i invested all this time, so leave your wife and kids, or else?"

 

I can threaten to end things with him, but that wont make him give up his kids, so, I'll let him know how i feel, and if he leaves her he leaves her. If he doesnt, i have to move on, eventually. I just have a hard time saying good bye right now.

[Owl]

lets not be that way, Owl. You know exactly what I meant.

 

A prostitute is not an OW. She's a prostitute, providing a service. There is no emotional issue involved, one hour of sex, and that's it, no phone calls, hang outs, etc. I have no issues with it, per say, but its not an OW. So let's not stray unnecessarily....Some OW's might act more like friends with benefits and just act like their in it for the sex, but most of us have some emotional investment and you know it.

 

Again...she doesn't define her status as a prostitute. She's convinced that she's an OW...for several MM who give her gifts. All of them provide her these "gifts" with the exception of one that she refers to as her "young MM".

 

I'm not straying...I'm responding to a comment you made. I would agree with your distinction between prostitute and OW...I'm pointing out to you that others do not.

[Owl]

I expect it will end because he will never leave his W and I can't be the OW forever. If I didnt love him i would have been able to leave this torture long ago. If you think i stay around so i can get laid once a week by some married guy and that's it, you must be crazy. getting laid has never been a problem, i can assure you. I love him with all my heart. But I won't make him leave his wife for me. He needs to want to do that on his own. And if he doesn't , then all it can do is end at some point....right? Im not going to sit here when im effing 40 years old waiting for him. What am I supposed to do, put a gun to his head and say "i invested all this time, so leave your wife and kids, or else?"

 

I can threaten to end things with him, but that wont make him give up his kids, so, I'll let him know how i feel, and if he leaves her he leaves her. If he doesnt, i have to move on, eventually. I just have a hard time saying good bye right now.

 

So basically, you're accepting that this relationship is the best that you can manage out of the situation.

 

You know that he won't leave her.

 

Its "torture" (your word) to see him go back to her each time...but you're willing to accept that.

 

Fair enough.

 

As far as 'what am I supposed to do...". Well, your options really are only two. You can accept the situation as it is, or you can take action to try to change it.

 

You've accepted it...so...there ya go.

[jj33]

That's not absolutely true. We've got at least one "professional OW" on this forum who does exactly that.

 

At the risk of threadjacking it is not unusual. That is how many professionals get repeat business. It can be easier for someone to have a relationshp with someone who is not demanding of them emotionally will never expect them to leave their wives and if you take the cost of dinner etc into account is not that much more expensive than a nonprofessional OW...

 

Where I live prostitution is legal. I hadnt really thought about it until this came up on the thread but it wouldnt shock me if MM had made use of professional services since we ended the A... the man is not going to be a monk after all. People who have needs to be met outside of a marriage get them met one way or another.

 

The other thing Kismet is you are not seeing him much at all. A relationship is in your heart there are couples who are apart for years due to work family or other situations but you really have very little time with him. You need to give that real thought.

 

Minimal time together plus the knowledge that he is not leaving his wife. That tells you something. The fact that he loves you doesnt change the fact that he has very little to offer you in a romantic relationship other than the knowledge that there is someone out there who loves you whom you love in return.

 

When life is difficult that knowledge can be very precious. But even if you end it he will still love you. That knowledge can still rest in your heart. The big difference is that you will be taking steps to move forward with your life. Its scary but its worth it.

[lovinmylife]

kismet,

i really think that you should think about yourself in this situation since you guys are not using condoms. i'm sure he's sleeping with his wife. and it's possible (not saying it's true, but it's possible) that his wife could cheat on him without a condom, catch something from that guy, give it to her husband, and then he give it to you, all without you guys knowing it until it's too late. it only takes one time.

[KismetGirl]

kismet,

i really think that you should think about yourself in this situation since you guys are not using condoms. i'm sure he's sleeping with his wife. and it's possible (not saying it's true, but it's possible) that his wife could cheat on him without a condom, catch something from that guy, give it to her husband, and then he give it to you, all without you guys knowing it until it's too late. it only takes one time.

 

 

thats possible...but....and this might sound horrid but whatever.....she stays home with three babies all day until he gets home, so even if she leaves the house she's got kiddies with her, soooo, its unlikely she's cheating on him. But i guess thats always a risk in some ways.

[KismetGirl]

At the risk of threadjacking it is not unusual. That is how many professionals get repeat business. It can be easier for someone to have a relationshp with someone who is not demanding of them emotionally will never expect them to leave their wives and if you take the cost of dinner etc into account is not that much more expensive than a nonprofessional OW...

 

Where I live prostitution is legal. I hadnt really thought about it until this came up on the thread but it wouldnt shock me if MM had made use of professional services since we ended the A... the man is not going to be a monk after all. People who have needs to be met outside of a marriage get them met one way or another.

 

The other thing Kismet is you are not seeing him much at all. A relationship is in your heart there are couples who are apart for years due to work family or other situations but you really have very little time with him. You need to give that real thought.

 

Minimal time together plus the knowledge that he is not leaving his wife. That tells you something. The fact that he loves you doesnt change the fact that he has very little to offer you in a romantic relationship other than the knowledge that there is someone out there who loves you whom you love in return.

 

When life is difficult that knowledge can be very precious. But even if you end it he will still love you. That knowledge can still rest in your heart. The big difference is that you will be taking steps to move forward with your life. Its scary but its worth it.

 

I know , JJ

 

im tryng to be rational by saying i know he won't leave his wife and kids, and in some way it seems to me that only a real shmuck would leave his wife and three babies, and im sure others would say only a shmuck would cheat on her to begin with, but alas, there are different levels of shmuck-ness.....

 

I know myself, and call me weak if you want, but I'll have a tough if not impossible time of totally letting him go when i havent got anyone else im interested in.

 

But, be proud of me, I said yes to a date on monday night with a cute, harvard educated doctor that works in the hospital across the street from mine.

 

I may not even like the guy, but dammit Im trying to distract myself, I really am.

 

Its going to take a while to let go of MM, and sadly if he told me tomorrow he was leaving his W i'd probably drop everthing to be with him, but I know it wont happen, so i guess all there is to do is wait and see what happens.....EVERYTHING reminds me of him, i compare every man i meet to him, and its just frustrating as hell.

[jj33]

thats possible...but....and this might sound horrid but whatever.....she stays home with three babies all day until he gets home, so even if she leaves the house she's got kiddies with her, soooo, its unlikely she's cheating on him. But i guess thats always a risk in some ways.

 

Its more of a risk than it may seem. She could leave the kiddies on a play date or other mommies, with a relative while she does errands, with a baby sitter... its not as uncommon as you think.

 

Theres a reason for the cliche of the stay at home mom having an A with the plumber or the tennis coach or the father who takes his kids to the playground....

 

You seem to have imagined her as a bedraggled exhausted unkempt woman with slobbering young children leaving her little time to be a siren and confidante for her man... she may be exhausted but the full the truth could be very very different. And even if its true that they have lost their spark it doesnt mean she isnt very attractive. Many of the stay at home Moms I know are dazzled by some of the other Moms showing up for play dates looking way more glamorous than you would imagine.