What is Faith?

[Explorer]

First of all, there's no need for condescending sarcasm.

Secondly, glad you've come back to ask.

 

To your first quotation:

ONE: Give me an absolute Truth.

 

TWO: Why would you require Faith in it, if it's 'Absolute' - unless of course, you mean Faith in the sense of 100% Confidence - in which case, I think you might have clarified.

If it's an absolute truth (and I have to wait for your definition of one, for that) it speaks for itself and needs no Faith. it's obvious, so faith doesn't come into it......

Thirdly, your use of the word 'intuitive' would imply that you don't mean 'Confidence' because only someone who has researched something to the most complete and fullest degree can aver confidence. "Intuitive" would imply doing something on a feeling.....

So how can you have a feeling about something, on instinct, if you haven't researched it, but feel confident it's an absolute truth?

 

ONE: No need for sarcasm?! Unless I interpreted your first reply wrong, what were you doing?

 

TWO: I'm starting to notice a disturbing trend among many LS'ers: 'You can dish it out but can't take it in.'

[ed-205]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Call me thick by all means....! )

 

I would never do that!

 

Let me know if I understand you correctly....

 

If it's beyond our experience of Reality, then it cannot be called Absolute, because logically, anything beyond our experience is an unknown.

 

That's pretty much the point. Kind of like when Einstein said "The more I learn, the less I know". The more we focus on smaller and smaller bits of the Universe (our "reality"), the bigger and more mysterious the rest of it appears to become.

 

So...

 

What, WITHIN our experience of Reality then, would you therefore say IS an Absolute Truth?

 

The term "absolute" itself is a mental construct we use to define the boundaries of our reality. Beyond that, there be sea monsters (as were drawn on old navigational charts), and we'd best not go there...

 

Let's say I'm stopped at a traffic light, and the light turns green. That's when a Q-head like myself asks the question, "What, exactly, is 'green' anyway? How do I know if this 'green' is absolute green? How do I test it and define it as such? I could say it is the spectrum of light at exactly 540nm, or 00FF00 on the RGB scale? Consider also that when we see something we perceive to be 'green', it is actually absorbing all the other colors in visible light, so does that mean what I'm looking at isn't really 'green' at all, and the color I see is actually the one that *isn't* there? If so, then what colors am I *not* seeing, and why? Does my eye even perceive this 'green' in an *absolute* sense? What if I'm only seeing a coherent superposition of the absolute color itself, and for all I know someone else sees a different shade of it, or perhaps even what I would perceive to be a different color entirely! Is it 'green' because 'green' is an independent reality in itself, or because I simply *observe* it as such?"

 

That's about where the guy behind me blows his horn and hollers, "It ain't gonna get any GREENER, you Idiot!", and I am struck with an Epiphany:

In this particular reality, at this particular experience in time and space , this 'green' is as green as it absolutely needs to be! That's what makes it "absolute" in an empirical sense, and I can satisfy myself in determining this light to be *absolutely* green.

I finally begin to remove my foot from the brake pedal, but just then, reality changes again, and I am compelled to ask myself,

 

"What, exactly, is 'yellow' anyway?...

[Geishawhelk]

ONE: No need for sarcasm?! Unless I interpreted your first reply wrong, what were you doing?

That wasn't sarcasm. That was an exasperated statement. Sarcasm might have been something like - "Good grief! Blind us with all-seeing knowledge why don't you? It's obviously a cut and dried state, to you!" Which is frankly unnacceptable. And I wouldn't say it.

 

TWO: I'm starting to notice a disturbing trend among many LS'ers: 'You can dish it out but can't take it in.'

 

Thank you.

With that out of the way, would you care to address the question? I haven't 'dished anything out (or have I? I'd be glad for you to point it out!).... but I'm merely asking you clarify.

[Geishawhelk]

ed- There's a fundamental flaw in your logic.

It's scientific.

 

And 'Faith' is not something one can quantify with Science.

Any Scientist will tell you that an 'absolute Truth' on a scientific scale, doesn't exist because in matterss such as the one you have described, the parameters and factors are in constant flux.

A spiritual premise cannot be argued on the same level as a scientific one. At one point, the paths diverge, and cannot be used as similies.

 

The term "absolute" itself is a mental construct we use to define the boundaries of our reality. Beyond that, there be sea monsters (as were drawn on old navigational charts), and we'd best not go there...

 

But that's exactly the kind of absolutes being discussed here.

 

I can give you an absolute Truth.

Something completely inarguable, and something which neither Science, nor Faith can dispute.

 

But we're straying into two forbidden territories.

Personal discussion on forum, and taking the thread off-topic.

PM me, if you'd like to continue the discussion.

[pandagirl]

I am agnostic. And I weave Buddhist beliefs into my life. I was raised in a completely non-religious household and the only reason I ever opened a bible, is because I had to go with my friend to church one day.

 

To me, although, others on this thread define the terms differently, faith and hope are easily interchangeable, or you can't really have one without the other, because they're both based on things we can't see or know.

 

To me, hope is having the confidence to believe when all else fails. A simple idea, but an amazing feat of humankind when we're given no reason to think otherwise.

[chris250]

Jesus is the personification of faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. Jesus is that definition of faith.

[Geishawhelk]

The question was not "who" is Faith, but "What" is Faith.

Your answer is therefore illogical on two counts.

[Quinch]

Faith is when you surrender yourself to another idea or person. If I give a letter to a subordinate and ask them to mail it then I have faith that they will mail it. If I ask God to solve my problems then I have faith that he will (eventually) do it. I delegate responsibility to another and absolve myself of responsibility.

 

Personally, I would rather have faith in the mail boy than in God