Trialbyfire Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Truly, people have free will to become what they are. Some become people who try to make good decisions in their lives. Others continue to act in malice and savour vengeance, for nothing more than their own personal insecurities. Abusive personalities rarely see themselves clearly. Look in the mirror and try to see clearly. Maybe the overly-reactive anger is driven by an abusive childhood foundation. As previously mentioned within this thread, most serial killers had abusive childhoods. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Moose... is that a dancing with the stars avatar???Kinda off topic....but yeah...that's Obama and Palin dancin'.....kinda funny....See- you'd shoot loose dogs running about your property...I shoot only when I control the issue at hand....make sense?I'd shoot Chloris Leechman if I found her on my deck after dark....I'd ask first since I don't know her?Okay- but I will disagree that there is such thing as "we"... majority makes up rules.This sounds more like the general problem. Especially if everyone follows the, "majority"....That must indicate that the "majority" of people have a conscience and act as an entity.Again....the most important ingredient in "entity" is God Himself. HE is what's been, and will be from this point forward...dilluted from the what is PURE. I will finish my response later....Mrs. Moose and I have an appointment.... Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 OMG! I have this irresistible urge to kill people! Yikes! Call the cops! 911! Someone! I just beat my child and I whipped my H. Please someone stop me!!!!! :laugh::lmao: I'll say it again...look within. Look within. I mean really look. I'm not kidding. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 OMG! I have this irresistible urge to kill people! Yikes! Call the cops! 911! Someone! I just beat my child and I whipped my H. Please someone stop me!!!!! :laugh::lmao: I'll say it again...look within. Look within. I mean really look. I'm not kidding.That's funny.....I just emotionally abused one of my 5 children too!!! (told them to get "lost") Oh...and I might slap the wife around here in a bit too... I see where you're at T'..... Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Abuse comes in many forms. In the situation of a serial killer, who knows what kinds of emotional and physical abuse they suffered as children. I sincerely wonder if serial killers are only lashing out at the abusers in their heads. Emotional abuse through childhood, possibly even minor physical abuse, tends to cycle from parent to child. The child grows up and enacts this type of behaviour on their child and usually on the people closest to them. They tend to find themselves very much alone, friendless, since people can only take so much. I'm eternally grateful for the strong familial and close friend support network that I have. I can't imagine having to depend, trust and rely on an abuser. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Abuse comes in many forms. In the situation of a serial killer, who knows what kinds of emotional and physical abuse they suffered as children. I sincerely wonder if serial killers are only lashing out at the abusers in their heads. Emotional abuse through childhood, possibly even minor physical abuse, tends to cycle from parent to child. The child grows up and enacts this type of behaviour on their child and usually on the people closest to them. They tend to find themselves very much alone, friendless, since people can only take so much. I'm eternally grateful for the strong familial and close friend support network that I have. I can't imagine having to depend, trust and rely on an abuser.AMEN! None of your support group were perfect either....right? You didn't turn out the way you should right? (according to the, "majority") You're a contribution to society right? Please correct us if we're wrong??!! Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 That's funny.....I just emotionally abused one of my 5 children too!!! (told them to get "lost") Oh...and I might slap the wife around here in a bit too... I see where you're at T'..... Too funny! Gotta love a "normal" family, right! Holy, moly! Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 AMEN! None of your support group were perfect either....right? You didn't turn out the way you should right? (according to the, "majority") You're a contribution to society right? Please correct us if we're wrong??!! This isn't personal Moose, so try not to make it so. Some who are abused, can break out of the cycle. Many cannot. Repeated patterns of behaviour tend towards irrational behaviour, over-emotionalism, yelling and screaming and physical abuse. I think in the case of serial killers, they're too far gone, all humanity buried deeply inside of them so they're unable to break the cycle of anger. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 This isn't personal Moose, so try not to make it so. Some who are abused, can break out of the cycle. Many cannot. Repeated patterns of behaviour tend towards irrational behaviour, over-emotionalism, yelling and screaming and physical abuse. I think in the case of serial killers, they're too far gone, all humanity buried deeply inside of them so they're unable to break the cycle of anger.:mad:You're RIGHT....there's nothing FUNNY at all about this.... You haven't one grain of sand to represent the path I was on, and changed in an INSTANCE. I won't bother to explain it to you, I will tell you that I could've EASILY been on the forefront of everyone's mind on Earth had lil' ole me continued where the "majority" decided I would have gone.... Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 :mad:You're RIGHT....there's nothing FUNNY at all about this.... You haven't one grain of sand to represent the path I was on, and changed in an INSTANCE. I won't bother to explain it to you, I will tell you that I could've EASILY been on the forefront of everyone's mind on Earth had lil' ole me continued where the "majority" decided I would have gone.... Once again, this isn't personal Moose. As previously mentioned, some can change. I can respect people who can break the cycle. I have no respect for those who are in denial, sometimes self-medicating to alleviate their pain and anger. The ones in denial are the ones who continue hurting the ones who care about them the most. Link to post Share on other sites
disgracian Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 no. Because then you – as a believer – are saying that you reserve the right to play God... I found this interesting. Why is "playing god" always associated with dealing out death, like it's his speciality? It says something about the sort of god that so many (too many) of us worship. Cheers, D. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Once again, this isn't personal Moose. As previously mentioned, some can change. I can respect people who can break the cycle. I have no respect for those who are in denial, sometimes self-medicating to alleviate their pain and anger. The ones in denial are the ones who continue hurting the ones who care about them the most.So, correct me if I'm wrong...do you see this as a negative? Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 So, correct me if I'm wrong...do you see this as a negative? Clarify which portion you're referring to. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I found this interesting. Why is "playing god" always associated with dealing out death, like it's his speciality? It says something about the sort of god that so many (too many) of us worship. Cheers, D.God's specialty is Life. The negative of which is Death. To own the title of, "specialist" is to know your Enemy. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Clarify which portion you're referring to.The ones in denial are the ones who continue hurting the ones who care about them the most. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 The ones in denial are the ones who continue hurting the ones who care about them the most. So that my quote isn't taken out of context, I see someone who's in denial about being an abuser, a definite negative. When in denial, they continue lashing out at the people who care about them the most, justifying their own abusive behaviour in some way or another. Link to post Share on other sites
Ronni_W Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 God's specialty is Life. The negative of which is Death. Is death a "negative" of life, though, or just a normal, natural PART of it? If one believes in 'eternal life', wouldn't that mean that humans can only ever kill/abort physical bodies...which were never promised 'eternal life', anyway? That is, we DON'T have the power to kill a soul, whether that soul has or has not yet inhabited a physical body. And we'll NEVER have that power. What if God's specialty actually is Soul, and not just the "alive" part of being physical-human? Why would God need to distance him/her/itself from the "dead" part of things ~ or is it just that humans want to distance God from that, for whatever our reasons? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Eve Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 .. Just thinking.. If we could map a persons genes to detect that they would mostly end up killing people and then they do kill.. how would the Judicial System deal with them? Their defence would be pretty concrete - a Lawyers dream case.. .. So they could kill and say it was their genetics which made them do it, what then? As a person of faith I would stand by systems which try to find ways to keep the gene/s latent rather than support a move towards any government led abortions. I am with D-Lish on this one and I dont think that could ever happen in Western society .. not sure about China and Japan based on their present regulations on how many children can be had per couple and also their absolute emphasis on perfectionism within their culture. I do think that many people would definately follow the abortion route though rather than wait and see what happens with the child. So, a deeper focus on parenting would have to be in pace for those who did continue with pregnancies. This would be good because I would love to see more of a focus on parenting generally and maybe this hypothetical scenario would if real force the issue into School and into our homes moreso. The one positive I could see coming from genetic mapping would be that aaybe one aspect of humanity would eventually die off - that off people who have been abused having to generate a certain type of resilience in order to find a way to live after being abused. I have always thought this the greater burden and my heart aches those who have to walk this path. If we could get rid of the gene/s which presumably have the code for why we are attracted to violence maybe we would be more in tune wth each other and would not fear others as much. Which is a good thing. Maybe we shouldnt care as much as we think? Faithwise, there were bad people in even the strongest of the Biblical families. They didnt suffer any abuse as follows with some psychos, sometimes people are just simply attracted to what is bad for them or kill out of jelousy etc. Maybe our world would become a better place eventually if we could detect the bad eggs. I just cant fathom from a personal viewpoint what it would b like to be told that I am carrying a defective human, or has Moose coined it someone who is 'genetically challenged'.. If such genetic mapping becomes available, I dont think that the information would ever become mainstream knowledge because it would be simply too difficult to manage. A whole new system would need to be created to manage the issue. Though I am quite sure that the British Govenment would come up with some form of benefit provision for it... Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I have nearly finished reading 'The Gift of Fear - Survival signs which protect us from violence' by Gavin De Becker. Aside from not being able to relate to gun crime senarios given within the book for employers.. though times seem to be changing within Europe. I have found this book insightful, accessible and honest. Now, within the pages I found a comment which has been running through my mind. Gavin De Becker states that we will eventually be able to detect serial killers and the like via genetics someday. Apparently there are genetic traits which have already been found to exist within serial killers and assasins. I didnt know that. My hypothetical (?) senario is simply; If we become privvy to such knowledge (which would scientifically be absolutely verifiable) should embryos found with identifying traits be aborted? Thoughts? What's the difference between a serial killer and an assasin? Do they share similar psychological profiles? Secondly, what are these genetic traits, how do they represent themselves given parents with different genetic dispositions with said trait and can they influence the presence of this trait? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Eve Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 What's the difference between a serial killer and an assasin? Do they share similar psychological profiles? Secondly, what are these genetic traits, how do they represent themselves given parents with different genetic dispositions with said trait and can they influence the presence of this trait? Sorry but I can only answer the interesting questions which you ask in brief as I have returned the said book to the library today. I will be purchasing 'The Gift Of Fear - Survival Signs Which Protect Us From Violence' by Gavin De Becker very soon and if you like I could post the precise genetic scoring identified in the book here or via PM once I have the information at hand. I only remember it began with a 'D' and I have been kicking myself all day for not writing it down in order to compile further research. I truly hope that you know something about genetics so that I can get another perspective on what I have read. I am still shocked that a particular gene has been identified .. Assasins were described (at length) within the sections of the book which discussed work place murders and domestic violence. Apparently assasins and serial rapists and murders share simular psychological profiles and behavioural traits. From what I remember all of the persons used as case references had parents who were abusive. Correlations between parents with different genetic dispositions were not discussed - though this would have been interesting. I think that unless persons are willing, such a stance would come into conflict with a persons human rights (?) Although this seems like a good idea to me in order to fully assertain any genetic factors. May I please add that the book I have quoted from was mainly about intuition and the role it plays in protecting us from the violent impulses of others. The book also included intuition and practical survival tactics for those involved in situations of domestic violence and other crimes of violence. I needed to add the above due to not wanting to detract from the life saving specialisms of the Author. Link to post Share on other sites
disgracian Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 The biggest worry are the faceless bureaucrats and the uncaring elite. The old men who send young men to war by the thousands while facing no danger themselves, those who don't care what happens to the world after they're gone. If there was some genetic signature to that behaviour, I'd be more inclined to abort them than serial killers. Cheers, D. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Eve Posted October 19, 2008 Author Share Posted October 19, 2008 The biggest worry are the faceless bureaucrats and the uncaring elite. The old men who send young men to war by the thousands while facing no danger themselves, those who don't care what happens to the world after they're gone. If there was some genetic signature to that behaviour, I'd be more inclined to abort them than serial killers. I was considering something on the same line yesterday. I am sure that mafia bosses etc would never be part of the selection pool due to being protected by their money and the elite. The great power struggle would still continue. Link to post Share on other sites
ed-205 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I could not have said it better myself, Disgracian! If there is one thing that terrifies me above all else, it is finding myself in a position where my fate is in the hands of someone that doesn't even know who I am. Link to post Share on other sites
Green Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Are serial killers really the biggest danger to our society. I mean what if they found a unique gene only present in the type of CEO that causes and Enron type scandal. What if they found a unique gene in the type of people who rise to power and send their countries to war. Seriously I think people are more then their genes and unless everyone was required to put their genes on file the results wouldn't be scientific. And the gene would only catch a certain type of serial killer even if it did work. What if there is an extremily intelegent group of people who kill on levels that match serial killers but they rarely if ever get caught... then you wouldn't see that gene, I mean the best criminals never get caught or even suspected. What if a gene that has a high chance of making a person a serial killer or rapist also gives them a high chance of being a great musician or artist... no I think its a silly book you read sounds like nazi talk Link to post Share on other sites
Sks Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I think people should have the option to pursue lines of work that better suit them. Why would you want to abort serial killers and assassins? They could still be a valuable asset to you're country. I don't have a problem with aborting or fixing damaged fetus though, IE mental or physical problems. Link to post Share on other sites
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