Never thought I would be the 'Other Man'

[mrmatt]

Did you ever ask your kids what they want to cook with you on Thursday, tomorrow??

 

Please don't get the idea that I give my kids less. I LIVE for them. I won't lie and say that I don't think of her at times I'm with them, because I do. I hear the way she talks to her kids and I often think how great she would be with mine too.

 

I think I'm a textbook case of a schmuck and a sucker, huh?

[stampdaddy]

Contact...yes, more IM, she's freaking out and saying that she'd rather have negative attention from me than none at all. The only information from me is a broken record. I keep telling her that my stance is the same, that I cannot be here to support her while she just stays at home.

 

She was there for me during my divorce. My divorce was already underway before I even met her, but I must admit, it was easier to get through it while I had her as a lifeline. I think I believed she would eventually leave him, although the writing was on the wall with empty promises.

 

I do think I'm getting a bit stronger, although it comes in waves. I do know myself well enough that I know I will only put up with so much crap (I think), before I totally flip out.

 

Keep in mind, we're 3 weeks out from getting caught, at which time, she was supposed to tell him she wanted a divorce, instead she was found out. So, all the wind has only just recently come out of my sails about her promise to leave him.

 

With y'alls help, and some counseling, I think that even if she continues to make contact, my emotional attachment will continue to weaken.

 

You know buddy, this place is fine and all, and so are counselors, and you come across as a strong enough and smart enough man, but, LS and the counselors are gonna tell you what you already KNOW deep inside of you. I know you "want" to believe in her, and I know you "want" to trust in her, that's what you do when you "love" someone, right?? (now you are crying).. But Matt, she is STUCK, STUCK, STUCK and she will NOT move with you here, no way, no how.. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN. Did you read my post to you about getting MAD at what she is really doing and saying at home?? DID YOU?? read it and read it over and over again. Print it out, make copies of it. Tape it to your computer screen, to your dash board, on your alarm clock and on your wanker of you have to, but do NOT lose sight of is REALLY happening up there in Cape Cod..

[stampdaddy]

Please don't get the idea that I give my kids less. I LIVE for them. I won't lie and say that I don't think of her at times I'm with them, because I do. I hear the way she talks to her kids and I often think how great she would be with mine too.

 

I think I'm a textbook case of a schmuck and a sucker, huh?

 

Not what I was saying nor what I think.. I know that my "focus" could have been sharper, and 100% on them, so if it was only 99%, I wish now I had that 1% back.. That's all I am saying

[stampdaddy]

Today is my son's birthday. He is 12. Last weekend he had a party, but I'm taking him, my youngest son, and their mom out to dinner. As for Thursday, as soon as I pick them up we go to my youngest son's soccer practice, so what we make for dinner on Thursdays is always the same....reservations

 

 

VERY cool.... Happy Birthday there! Where you taking them??

[mrmatt]

VERY cool.... Happy Birthday there! Where you taking them??

Maggiano's ... mmmmmmm

[wildsoul]

You're getting such good strong advice. I don't want to undermine the momentum of you getting angry, if that is helping you to move on to NC. I agree that you MUST break up with her. It's your only viable option. If you don't, it's for certain that she will not leave.

 

And while you must go NC for yourself, because you refuse to stay in a stuck situation for a minute longer, I'm going to point out that your going NC might also motivate her to change. She needs to feel the total loss of you, then decide about her M. She might decide her M is fixable, but she may also dislike how painful it is to stay with him, unaided by your emotional medication.

 

When I broke up with my MM because his separation process halted, he was in agony. The M was still needing to be ended. He had a taste of love again with me. When I left, he made efforts to get me back, but I told him that the A was over. It was hard on both of us. He begged, bargained, ranted, and seduced. But he knew I was really serious. After about a month, he signed a lease on an apartment, moved, and separated for real. We still have a ways to go, but we're happy and progressing. He would be the first to tell you that he didn't like me breaking up with him, but that if I hadn't he would have tried to drag out his separation for a lot longer.

 

Again, I'm telling you too that nothing will change as long as you're willing to be the OM. You've got to be willing to leave, for your own self, not as a manipulation for her. Because leaving is hard. Going NC is hard. She'll test you hard. But if you leave, you can't lose. You're going to be moving towards a more healthy relationship with yourself and your next partner...and it's possible that she might still be that girl.

[stampdaddy]

Maggiano's ... mmmmmmm

 

Oh SNAP! I'll take the Mushroom and Veal Ravioli's please...

[mrmatt]

More IM for analysis

 

Her: i can't do this

i'd rather fight with you and you be angry with me and be sarcastic then not talk at all

my heart is ripping out of my chest

or would you prefer that over your heart ripping

 

me:

 

Her: i'd prefer yours ripping

 

me: I can tell

 

Her: well it hurts less

duh

you trying to make me beg you

cause I will beg

please please please

dont not talk to me

 

me: I can't promise you that. This hurts me too much.

 

Her: so this hurts less

???

you told me you would always be there for me

 

me: Turn the begging to yourself. Say 'Self, please please please make the hard choices. '

I seem to be here

 

Her: see

I'd rather be mad

like right now with that comment

go ahead

give me more

 

me: Clearly

 

Her: i can take it

just like a kid

any attention is good

 

me: You'll hate me before its over

 

Her: negative included

well you can be an ass from time to time

true and i may hate you

so tell me what you are going through

tell me what it is like

 

me: I suppose that's how it must be

Let's suppose you don't leave him

Do you want our last memories to be anger

 

Her: i'm off that topic

 

me: What is the topic

 

Her: i asked you what you are gonig throuhg

well more like

what are you going through

tell me

what is it like

 

me: Well

 

Her: are you sick to your stomac

do you cry

do you hate

 

me: I cry off and on all day

I haven't eaten much

 

Her: so there we have a tie

 

me: My work is suffering

 

Her: Well that is not good

 

me: I feel like you'll never leave and that I'm a big ****ing schmuck loser

 

Her: NO, your not

I'm sorry

I just need you

I have to say this

I don't think this whole situation, is the only thing that is happening with you

meaning me and you

there is something deeper

 

me: Bull****

 

Her: okie dokie

 

me: I chose you a long time ago

You were a reason I was able to even survive during my divorce

Because I had a vision of US

And the future

 

Her: well sounds to me like you believe that entire thing has ended

and yes, I helped you through your divorce

however, there are other things going on with you

 

me: No. I don't think it has ended

But it will end. One way or another. I can just hope that it goes in my/our favor

You do understand that my opinion/advice is scewed

It is not objective

That's what the counselor can help with

I found another divorce only chat room for ppl going thru or contemplating divorce

Maybe you wanna talk there too

 

Her: I told you this months ago and you never believed me

sure i would like that

what is it

 

me: Told me what months ago?

You need to tell me what it is exactly what you want me to support you through

 

Her: I want you to encourage me

tell me I can do it

Tell me continually I am strong enough and deserve happiness

 

me: If it is to support you while you decide to stay/go. Well, that's too hard for me. If you leave or file, I'm on board. YOU CAN DO IT.

 

Her: I want to hear that from someone I cherish

I want to hear that from someone I adore

I want to hear that from someone who I value their opinion

 

me: You sound like you still have not decided

And since you're still there, having not made a move, you're still undecided.

I wish I could see it another way.

How do you see it?

 

Her: I see me as the same person, except her mouth is afraid to open again

because she knows what it will cause

so she puts everyone elses feelings first

and forgets her own

 

me: But does she see what it is causing now?

Do you love me?

 

Her: Matt, I breathe you

 

me: Do you love HIM?

 

Her: As the father of my children, yes I do

but not as someone I want to spend the rest of my life with

I respect the fact that he is their father

Although he has treated me like ****, I have to say I have done the same

I do not want to bash him

I just want peace

 

me: Then do something about it. I'm sure you're scared. But you don't owe him this

 

Her: within myself

 

me: And are things getting more peaceful

 

Her: i meant peace within me

not my surroundings

 

me: You know something...

If I were in Iraq, and I had a choice to be in Hawaii, and I wanted to find inner peace, I think I would want to do that search in Hawaii

You're not going to find that peace with bombs goung off all around you

We CAN get thru this

You MUST have faith in yourself. You MUST have faith in me.

You have only had a taste of what our life can be

How much peace did that bring you?

How about taking a whole slice instead of just a small bite

You've not been able to count on anyone. So I know it is hard for you to believe you can count on me

But, it will take both of us, not just me. And now it is your turn. I have divorced, come to see you twice, and taken you at your word over and over. And, I know you love me. I don't doubt that. But, I need to see you take a leap of faith.

 

Her: Part of it is I think you will change your mind

that you haven't gone through all of it yet

all the pain your suppose to go through

I feel your avoiding it

I could be wrong, but I don't think so

I think your jumping into me to fast

to avoid it

 

me: Well. You keep going down this road and I think you'll get your wish

Everyone goes thru pain

I don't believe it is wrong to heal WITH someone.

When you go to the ER, they don't put you out on the curb and say 'we think you need to go thru this pain alone, theb we'll help you'

There is a concept of getting better with the help of others.

Especially with someone you love

My god. Please just stop running. I fear you're gonna run right past us.

 

Her:

Will you hold me tonight

not on the phone

just in your thoughts

please

so I know that you are

 

me: I do that all day

 

Her:

 

me: i just want you to do what you have to do

 

Her: i know baby

you know matt, some people aren't as quick as you at seeing things and acting

and women in general are more nurturing

and it takes them longer to realize they can put themselves first

without feeling like they've abandoned everyone

some can, don't get me wrong

I just have been taking care of everyone for so long

it takes a while to detox that

going to counseling will help

but it doesn't come overnight

 

me: right...but some people also will endure a lot more of the 'waiting' thing on someone who may never leave

 

Her: and the guilt that comes with cheating on someone is overwhelming

for me atleast

i feel like a selfish bitch

more than ever

 

me: some people can do that for years

 

Her: matt i'm not superwoman

 

me: i know you're not baby

and i'm not superman

 

Her: yes you are

 

me: no...cause if i were, i would fly you out of there

but, not gonna mean much unless you do it

you will resent me

you may anyway

you might right now

and when i've had enough, knowing you're spending thanksgiving, christmas, all those times right there at home...i won't be able to take that...you can't have your cake and eat it too...i'm not saying you're going to be necessarily happy, but for you, it will be much the same as it has been

for me, it will be another set of holidays alone

 

Her: i dont know what to say to that

 

me: i know

 

Her: except i'm sorry, but little that helps

 

me: i'm a dreamer, but i've also been someone that pursues the dream when i know i can have it

i hope that you can do that too

[mrmatt]

Clearly, I'm still a glutton for punishment. At least we can document my drama, for others to try to learn from. Who knows the outcome, but I bet you could take bets, and most of you would win?

[Lookingforward]

So I assume you're not interested in going NC then, which means as long as you're in contact she can and will string you along.

 

This continued im contact is NOT what I call "leaving her to decide for herself"

[wildsoul]

Darling, she is nowhere near ready. Sorry to say, but not even close. She wants you to be her emotional bandaid, long enough that she can avoid getting that gangrened foot of a marriage amputated. The thing is, that you're going to get hurt even more than you are if you continue. She's not ready.

[quankanne]

*bangs head against wall*

 

matt, matt ... why are you doing this to yourself? I know you have deep feelings for her, but reading this last IM, she really and truly does seem interested in having someone to use as a puppet in her self-induced drama.

 

"i asked you what you are gonig throuhg

well more like

what are you going through

tell me

what is it like"

 

WTF? Sounds like she wants to see the depth of pain she inflicts, and not that she's repentant for making you go through this.

 

just like a kid

any attention is good

 

does this mean she's admitting she's an attention whore sticking around to feed off your pain? Can you see what I'm getting at?

 

or are you so convinced that even bad love is worth the pain you're subjecting yourself to?

 

maybe it's time to try a little experiment: Go cold turkey through the end of the month by ceasing all contact with her. Yeah, it'll be like a drunk with DT's but I'm thinking you can do it ... if you only allow yourself to believe you can do it.

 

if you feel the same way at the end of the no-contact phase, then contact her.

[jj33]

I can only echo what the others have said. She is staying put at this point but she wants to know that you are there and you love her and will pay attention to her and make her existence brighter

 

while she stays married...

 

Getting out can only help your situation. Either she will come around or you will have a chance to move on. Otherwise you just keep the pain fresh and keep the dance going and enable her to stay having you and whatever it is about her life she feels the need to preserve.

[mrmatt]

I'm working very hard now to get myself 'back into the groove'. I've got a number of social events lined up to get me occupied with the 'real' world again. I'm not going to allow myself to just sit around waiting for a phone call or text or IM.

 

She'll do what she's gonna do, which is probably nothing

 

I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do, which is continue with life. Who knows where my mind will be at even IF she decided to leave him. She may be too far off my radar by then. That will be her loss, I can assure you. Now, I just have to assure me

[Owl]

What you need to be doing is:

 

Doing what you need to do...for yourself, BY YOURSELF.

 

She needs to be doing what she needs to do...for herself, BY HERSELF.

 

The problem is that the two of you trying to do "what you need to do" ends up totally negating what the other person is trying to do.

 

In other words...BREAK IT OFF AND GO NC WITH HER ALREADY!!!!

 

You KNOW that's what you have to do...

 

So...post back here today telling us that the affair with her is OVER, and you're done communicating with her completely.

 

Anything less than that is just more of the same drama, with no hope of improving things for ANYONE involved.

[mrmatt]

What you need to be doing is:

Doing what you need to do...for yourself, BY YOURSELF.

She needs to be doing what she needs to do...for herself, BY HERSELF.

The problem is that the two of you trying to do "what you need to do" ends up totally negating what the other person is trying to do.

In other words...BREAK IT OFF AND GO NC WITH HER ALREADY!!!!

You KNOW that's what you have to do...

So...post back here today telling us that the affair with her is OVER, and you're done communicating with her completely.

Anything less than that is just more of the same drama, with no hope of improving things for ANYONE involved.

 

OWL, you and others on this site are a great help to me. I appreciate your support and advice very much.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if life were so orderly that when someone says 'this is what you should do', and it made sense, that you could just do it. The human condition would be so much simpler if this were the case, but alas, we all know it is not. My last email to her contained a post from wildsoul -->http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1893209&postcount=81, I knew it would make sense to her. She responded this morning, and I do not intend to respond back to her. After you read her email, you'll see why. However, I fully expect that she will crack, and continue to try to contact me.

 

I KNOW the likelihood of her leaving, and even if she did, us working out is remote, at best, but at this point I'm not ruling it out. However, I'm going to live my life as if though it is NOT going to happen.

 

Through my divorce, and other events in my life, I've become accepting of the fact that NOTHING in life is certain (except for the love of my children). I would have never believed in a million years that I'd be divorced or that my wife would have an affair, but I am, and she did. I could go on forever, but, the reality is, none of us have a crystal ball, and some (albeit not many) of these situations do actually work out in the end.

 

She is not a bad person, I am not a bad person. Good people make mistakes, sometimes HUGE ones.

 

Here's what she sent me:

 

Well that would answer the question of "why didn't you pick up the phone".

 

She is 150% correct. I've been telling you this all along. Perhaps I picked the wrong word and called you an "enabler". However, speaking with you, having you, all made me stay. Strange, but true. Everything she says is true.

 

Such as:

She might decide her M is fixable, but she may

> also dislike how painful it is to stay with him, unaided by your emotional

> medication.

>

 

You were my emotional medicine. I also told you that, in so many words. I need you to not speak with me, so I can see things clearly. It was so much easier to avoid seeing things with your help of emotional support.

 

We are both hurting, equally, but we will get past this. I need this time away from you, and again I thank you for taking charge. I needed you so badly to do that. I'm not leaving you, I'm just working on me and my situation. In fact, that is why I called this morning. I was forced to sit there and talk to him, not physically, but mentally, and it helped. I let some things out and after about an hour it felt terrific.

 

You gave me things Matt, that I never had before. If you continue to give them to me while I am married, I will just use it as a crutch. I am tired of not being able to give back to you in the way you need and deserve. Your friend is correct. I am glad you have her.

 

The part I was wrong about, and the reason I called: I accused you of jumping to me to avoid pain. Again, I was wrong. I realized this morning that both you and I, for many years went without having someone love us. After that, you dated, looking for something, someone, that feeling. You didn't find it. I, in some sense, did the same. I talked to different men, on the site, in person, wherever, hoping to feel something, anything!!!!! I didn't get it. Then I thought, what am I doing, I'm crazy. Then I met you. Everything just clicked. Everything felt right. Right from the beginning. I wasn't jumping, you weren't jumping, we were just falling in love. We held onto that because it was so beautiful, and so real. However, I'm still married, so it is so wrong.

 

Matthew - I love you. I will get there. I know I will. You pulling away can only help me get there faster. So thank you, and thank your friend for me. I love you Matt. I'll see you soon!

[Owl]

Matt, I live in the same world you do. I'm a human being, just like you. I live, love, hurt, laugh, cry...just like you do.

 

I agonize over my difficult choices, just as you do.

 

But I've also had some different life experiences than you have (at least I believe that's the case).

 

I've learned that sooo many people in this world choose to remain in a painful situation. Just as you're doing.

 

Getting out of that situation is every bit as simple as I've told you. EVERY SINGLE BIT THAT EASY.

 

The problem here is that you really don't WANT to get out of the situation yet.

 

People change, people DO things for one of two reasons. To get something they want, or to get away from something they don't like.

 

In your case...you've not reached the point where you're hurting badly enough to really want the situation to change.

 

Once you get to that point...you'll see how simple the choice really has been all along.

 

Until you get there...there's very little that anyone outside of your situation is going to be able to say or do to help you.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Wow, one day later she does a complete 180???

 

Does she think WS is taking her place??

[2sure]

Owl - you are giving OP the best and most sincere advice. As you often do here. When I first came LS, I thought you were harsh - very black and white.

 

But OP can grab almost any infidelity story on LS - from an OW/OM or BS/WS - one that includes a beginning and an end - and find that you are almost always 100% right. Like it or not.

[stampdaddy]

what a loser....................

 

no wait, that was ME only a moment ago, for how long?? I started posting here last December, lurked for 5-6 prior to that, was completely miserable for at least a year before that..

 

Matty my boy, I know the "hope" you are feeling.. and then some. How many times did I hear her car pull into my driveway? How many nights did I "feel" the covers being pulled down and her finally climb into bed to fall asleep with me, in my arms, and whispering, "I'm here. I am home..."

How many hours have I stared out of my windows watching for her, only to not see her show up?

 

DO NOT WAIT FOR HER. (I am not saying that she isnt going to get divorced, but do not put yourself at such a risk Matt)

[mrmatt]

what a loser....................

 

no wait, that was ME only a moment ago, for how long?? I started posting here last December, lurked for 5-6 prior to that, was completely miserable for at least a year before that..

 

Matty my boy, I know the "hope" you are feeling.. and then some. How many times did I hear her car pull into my driveway? How many nights did I "feel" the covers being pulled down and her finally climb into bed to fall asleep with me, in my arms, and whispering, "I'm here. I am home..."

How many hours have I stared out of my windows watching for her, only to not see her show up?

 

DO NOT WAIT FOR HER. (I am not saying that she isnt going to get divorced, but do not put yourself at such a risk Matt)

 

I've tried to describe that I'm not closing the door completely to her, but that I'm also NOT keeping my options closed by waiting for her. I hope that makes sense. If I meet someone and hit it off with them, then she may lose her chance for me, not the other way around. I'm going to live as though I already lost her, for what it's worth.

[stampdaddy]

I've tried to describe that I'm not closing the door completely to her, but that I'm also NOT keeping my options closed by waiting for her. I hope that makes sense. If I meet someone and hit it off with them, then she may lose her chance for me, not the other way around. I'm going to live as though I already lost her, for what it's worth.

 

atta boy! go getcha some...

 

how was dinner last night?? did you save me some ravioli's??

[mrmatt]

atta boy! go getcha some...

 

how was dinner last night?? did you save me some ravioli's??

 

I had the Braised Beef Cannelloni...mmmmmmm, no leftovers, sorry. I get the boys tonight...woo hoo...and even though this is not 'my weekend', the ex is going to a silly Halloween party (she thinks since the divorce she is 19 now ), and the kids are gonna be with me. So, I'm going to take them to Six Flags for Frightfest.

[stampdaddy]

I had the Braised Beef Cannelloni...mmmmmmm, no leftovers, sorry. I get the boys tonight...woo hoo...and even though this is not 'my weekend', the ex is going to a silly Halloween party (she thinks since the divorce she is 19 now ), and the kids are gonna be with me. So, I'm going to take them to Six Flags for Frightfest.

 

OH, that too is one of my favorites, so I understand the lack of leftovers... You have a VERY "healthy" and happy weekend planned, as do I.. Tonight is my night and this weekend is mine as well, and tonight we have football practice. Saturday my son has a couple of Halloween parties to go to, and the a BIG game on Sunday, which will determine where we seed in the playoffs...

 

You (we) will get there buddy

[stampdaddy]

Matt,

 

Fess up! any contact between you two lovebirds today??